Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
tfsa47090
Moderator & Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 945
Join date : 2013-03-18

PostSubject: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:34 pm

This is a thread from an inactive forum that discusses Eric's post-mortem, pseudo "diagnosis" of psychopathy.

"Detectable Transitions".

One astoundingly prophetic quote, from July 19, 2005:

"I fear for the release of Dave Cullen's book.

How many more people are going to poison minds???"



Cullen had written an article prior to his book called "The Depressive and the Psychopath". This was published in April of 2004, so this "theory" was already being pushed into the public's consciousness five years before his book was released.

I did not pay attention to this article back then (in 2004). I was, however, reading his columbine related articles from 1999 during that time, which did not contain such viewpoints, although they did report some other things erroneously. I actually read "The Depressive and the Psychopath" in 2008.

Someone got to him in some way. Someone with power of some sort. There really is not much of a question about that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wideawake

avatar

Posts : 380
Join date : 2013-03-20
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:46 pm

There is so much good info on the CRTF board. I have spent hours on there, although it's been a long time.

Interesting that the person who made the post you quoted was the oracleofgreatness.

Who exactly got to him, in your opinion? And for what purpose?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tfsa47090
Moderator & Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 945
Join date : 2013-03-18

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:49 am

Wideawake wrote:
There is so much good info on the CRTF board. I have spent hours on there, although it's been a long time.

Interesting that the person who made the post you quoted was the oracleofgreatness.

Who exactly got to him, in your opinion? And for what purpose?

I wish I'd paid closer attention to it when it was actually thriving. I didn't look at/read it until a few years ago. And in my own researching "heyday" (end of 2004-mid 2008), I saw "CRTF" referenced numerous times in different areas of the internet, but I just didn't pay much attention. The primary reason being that my internet access was rather limited during that time period. But, still, I had access sometimes, and wish I'd read that forum back then.

I feel that Cullen was coerced in some fashion to go full steam ahead with this rigid, essentially unflinching "diagnosis" by people in power (JeffCo, attorneys that are involved in some way, etc.). When you look back on his old articles from 1999 and the early 2000s, he hadn't reached this conclusion, and didn't seem to be going in that direction. All of a sudden he comes out with that article, and then the book comes out, and many people have just blindly swallowed it whole.

I said elsewhere on this forum (I can't find the thread right now) that this story also sells because a large majority of the population are somehow soothed by it. It provides them with an easily digestible solution and reason. They don't have to think, and they don't have to look at themselves and deal with the fact that exclusionary and judgmental behavior (along with apathy) might indeed be catalysts in pushing some people over the edge.

When I think of it that way, I feel that he did this on his own to profit from it. Then I start realizing that there was a larger group of people in power that worked alongside him and "helped" him, and that it suits their interests quite perfectly to continue pushing this "reasoning" for what happened into the consciousness of the general public.

In their minds, I believe, pushing this story as the "official" story and diagnosis helps give them more of a reason to demand people to "understand" that there is nothing beneficial in releasing the tapes and other artifacts concerning the case that have been withheld. It removes any blame from JeffCo's incompetence, and it helps the narrow minded people who possibly should be reflecting on their behavior and mindsets from feeling the need to do so.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wideawake

avatar

Posts : 380
Join date : 2013-03-20
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:00 pm

tfsa47090 wrote:
Wideawake wrote:
There is so much good info on the CRTF board. I have spent hours on there, although it's been a long time.

Interesting that the person who made the post you quoted was the oracleofgreatness.

Who exactly got to him, in your opinion? And for what purpose?

I wish I'd paid closer attention to it when it was actually thriving. I didn't look at/read it until a few years ago. And in my own researching "heyday" (end of 2004-mid 2008), I saw "CRTF" referenced numerous times in different areas of the internet, but I just didn't pay much attention. The primary reason being that my internet access was rather limited during that time period. But, still, I had access sometimes, and wish I'd read that forum back then.

I feel that Cullen was coerced in some fashion to go full steam ahead with this rigid, essentially unflinching "diagnosis" by people in power (JeffCo, attorneys that are involved in some way, etc.). When you look back on his old articles from 1999 and the early 2000s, he hadn't reached this conclusion, and didn't seem to be going in that direction. All of a sudden he comes out with that article, and then the book comes out, and many people have just blindly swallowed it whole.

I said elsewhere on this forum (I can't find the thread right now) that this story also sells because a large majority of the population are somehow soothed by it. It provides them with an easily digestible solution and reason. They don't have to think, and they don't have to look at themselves and deal with the fact that exclusionary and judgmental behavior (along with apathy) might indeed be catalysts in pushing some people over the edge.

When I think of it that way, I feel that he did this on his own to profit from it. Then I start realizing that there was a larger group of people in power that worked alongside him and "helped" him, and that it suits their interests quite perfectly to continue pushing this "reasoning" for what happened into the consciousness of the general public.

In their minds, I believe, pushing this story as the "official" story and diagnosis helps give them more of a reason to demand people to "understand" that there is nothing beneficial in releasing the tapes and other artifacts concerning the case that have been withheld. It removes any blame from JeffCo's incompetence, and it helps the narrow minded people who possibly should be reflecting on their behavior and mindsets from feeling the need to do so.

Unfortunately, CRTF was pretty much done by the time I got deeply interested in Columbine. But as I said, I have spent many hours on the archives reviewing information. There is quite a bit of good stuff there.

As far as Cullen: I don't know that I believe he was coerced, but I sincerely doubt that anyone discouraged him from the direction he went in. I have read somewhere (forgive me because I'm awful on sources) that he suffered from PTSD regarding the case and if that is true, then I wonder how much that influenced the direction that he eventually took with his writings. And yes, I imagine he profited far more from his fictional story, because that's truly what it is, rather than telling the truth.

I think you nailed it when you said that it provides all those readers with an excuse not to examine things more closely. If we operate under the assumption that Eric was a psychopath and Dylan was forced to go along with it, we can lay all the blame at Eric's feet. Nothing could have been done. Hell, we can blame the Harris's too, just for good measure. They're not from the community and they obviously were horrible parents so this is all the family's fault and everyone else is free and clear.

Yes, I can easily see the powers that be backing good ole Dave's story. As far as coercement, I don't know that I necessarily believe it but I wouldn't put it past JeffCo either. I have also seen discussion somewhere on the board about the Klebold family using their money and influence to push that story. While I don't know how much money or influence they have, if it were my child I wouldn't hesitate to try and make him look as good as possible under the circumstances, even if he were already dead. So who knows?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tfsa47090
Moderator & Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 945
Join date : 2013-03-18

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:37 am

Wideawake wrote:


Unfortunately, CRTF was pretty much done by the time I got deeply interested in Columbine. But as I said, I have spent many hours on the archives reviewing information. There is quite a bit of good stuff there.

As far as Cullen: I don't know that I believe he was coerced, but I sincerely doubt that anyone discouraged him from the direction he went in. I have read somewhere (forgive me because I'm awful on sources) that he suffered from PTSD regarding the case and if that is true, then I wonder how much that influenced the direction that he eventually took with his writings. And yes, I imagine he profited far more from his fictional story, because that's truly what it is, rather than telling the truth.

I think you nailed it when you said that it provides all those readers with an excuse not to examine things more closely. If we operate under the assumption that Eric was a psychopath and Dylan was forced to go along with it, we can lay all the blame at Eric's feet. Nothing could have been done. Hell, we can blame the Harris's too, just for good measure. They're not from the community and they obviously were horrible parents so this is all the family's fault and everyone else is free and clear.

Yes, I can easily see the powers that be backing good ole Dave's story. As far as coercement, I don't know that I necessarily believe it but I wouldn't put it past JeffCo either. I have also seen discussion somewhere on the board about the Klebold family using their money and influence to push that story. While I don't know how much money or influence they have, if it were my child I wouldn't hesitate to try and make him look as good as possible under the circumstances, even if he were already dead. So who knows?

I see that the forum was founded in 2000. I have also read that there was something going on with ownership changes, and in the process, lots and lots of threads were deleted. So in my case, I missed TONS of things from there. I also read something about this being the reason for the Echoes of Columbine forum's existence; they wanted to preserve as much as they could due to various issues concerning ownership and other in-fighting.

Dwayne Fuselier is one of the people who came up with the "diagnosis" of psychopathy for Eric, and from there, Cullen ran with it. That is part of the reason why I feel he was pushed to focus on it and shove it down everyone's throats as the end all be all.

Your points are very valid, and he may have done all of this of his own volition. But, like you said, there is really NO doubt that these people in power were at least pleased and encouraged it wholeheartedly.

This ridiculous theory is perfect for the bulk of the general public, who don't like to think for themselves about anything, let alone take responsibility for anything, either. And the powers that be in JeffCo and any of their affiliates are looking for any reason at all to remove any shred of responsibility from themselves as well.

The point you made about the Klebolds is very interesting. I know which thread you are referring to, but I am not having much luck finding it right now. (Maybe after I've gotten some sleep, or perhaps someone else will find it and post it).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wideawake

avatar

Posts : 380
Join date : 2013-03-20
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:18 am

The thread was "basement tapes" in this section. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There was some interesting discussion about whether Sue's family would still be considered influential, and how wealthy the family really is. As far as Dwayne Fuselier, well, I'm not sure how he was allowed to remain on the case and how he justifies post-mortem diagnosis. His son went to that school, knew Eric and Dylan and was more than a passing acquaintance of theirs, and that to me puts him too close to objectively investigate. As well, we're all aware that you cannot diagnose someone with a psychiatric disorder without in person interviews, and that "psychopath" is no longer an official diagnosis according to the DSM IV or the more recent V. And those are both rants that have been covered in depth here, of course.

Every time I dig deeply into the case, I get pissed off at the number of screw ups and the attempts at covering things up and it makes me want to storm JeffCo in a totally nonviolent manner, take custody of every piece of evidence and show them how an investigation could be run properly by someone with no police or forensics background whatsoever.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JayJay



Posts : 293
Join date : 2013-09-28
Location : At the library

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:43 am

Wideawake wrote:
The thread was "basement tapes" in this section. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There was some interesting discussion about whether Sue's family would still be considered influential, and how wealthy the family really is. As far as Dwayne Fuselier, well, I'm not sure how he was allowed to remain on the case and how he justifies post-mortem diagnosis. His son went to that school, knew Eric and Dylan and was more than a passing acquaintance of theirs, and that to me puts him too close to objectively investigate. As well, we're all aware that you cannot diagnose someone with a psychiatric disorder without in person interviews, and that "psychopath" is no longer an official diagnosis according to the DSM IV or the more recent V. And those are both rants that have been covered in depth here, of course.

Every time I dig deeply into the case, I get pissed off at the number of screw ups and the attempts at covering things up and it makes me want to storm JeffCo in a totally nonviolent manner, take custody of every piece of evidence and show them how an investigation could be run properly by someone with no police or forensics background whatsoever.

The reason psychopathy is not a diagnosis in DSM-IV and DSM-V is that it was merged with antisocial personality disorder when the former was published. It is now understood the two diagnosis are different. Yeah, illnesses and diagnosis come and go, change names and such. It's confusing.

Now, psychopathy is still a diagnosis but, it is based on the Hare Checklist, not on the DSM-IV and V. It's mostly used in correctional facilities to make sure offenders are identified and not let out.

It's also used and abused in the general population. Who hasn't met their own cuddly psychopath at least once? I know I hear about someone meeting a psychopath in my line of work every day or someone who think they are a psychopath. As if everybody who does something criminally bad and lies is a psychopath.

_________________
"Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
- American Psycho - Bret Easton Ellis (1991)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Wideawake

avatar

Posts : 380
Join date : 2013-03-20
Location : US

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:32 pm

JayJay, I suppose it was a mistake on my part to assume that they used DSM-IV.  Embarassed Thanks for the correction. And yes, I agree that the term psychopath is thrown around a little too much.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JayJay



Posts : 293
Join date : 2013-09-28
Location : At the library

PostSubject: Re: Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis   Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:44 am

Hey, it's all right! It gets really confusing because the diagnosis always changes across generations. I'm by no means an expert on the subject.

_________________
"Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
- American Psycho - Bret Easton Ellis (1991)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Thread from 2005 about the "psychopath" "diagnosis
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» RP Dice Roll Thread
» NightMares (Official Thread)
» Gun/Military Thread
» Super Action Bio Thread Go!
» Shattered Realms Registration Thread

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Documents, evidence, and videos-
Jump to: