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 Eric Harris quote about psychopathy

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What would be the point of Eric feigning remorse anyway? His whole idea was to come across in his journal and the basement tapes as a tough alpha male getting his revenge. He wouldn't ruin that by deceiving people into thinking he had remorse when he didn't.

Unfortunately, I can't read minds or know for certain why Eric did what he did. I reached the conclusion I did based on simple logic and prior research. A person who feels remorse or guilt for what they have done does not react the way Eric was reported to have reacted on tape. A remorseful person makes limited eye contact or movement and doesn't dramatize the event. The fact that Eric often repeated his apologies while instructing Dylan to "feel the rage" doesn't suggest that Eric felt remorse for the victims or his family.

Now, you asked why Eric would feign remorse. I think that Eric probably assumed his parents would watch the video, and he wanted to explain, in his own terms, why he wasn't the son they assumed he was. Once again, my analysis is only conjecture, but I don't believe for a moment that he truly felt remorse. Remorse is the "tell-tale heart" that's difficult to hide, especially if the emotion is legitimate. If you are a body language expert, you could easily spot a remorseful person because their movements are predicated and often limited. That's primarily why I don't believe Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:55 pm

I do believe Eric had remorse. Not on that day, but definitely prior. I know that he wasn't that cold-hearted of a person, just someone who got hurt alot and was finally broken.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
.... I know that he wasn't that cold-hearted of a person, just someone who got hurt alot and was finally broken.

You think. This seems very far from objective.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:28 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You think. This seems very far from objective.

Why are you correcting what I'm meaning to say? It's easy to evaluate off his life experiences, how he was when he was pre-teen that he wasn't a cold-hearted person. He had affection for people and things.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:28 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Unfortunately, I can't read minds or know for certain why Eric did what he did. I reached the conclusion I did based on simple logic and prior research. A person who feels remorse or guilt for what they have done does not react the way Eric was reported to have reacted on tape. A remorseful person makes limited eye contact or movement and doesn't dramatize the event. The fact that Eric often repeated his apologies while instructing Dylan to "feel the rage" doesn't suggest that Eric felt remorse for the victims or his family.

Now, you asked why Eric would feign remorse. I think that Eric probably assumed his parents would watch the video, and he wanted to explain, in his own terms, why he wasn't the son they assumed he was. Once again, my analysis is only conjecture, but I don't believe for a moment that he truly felt remorse. Remorse is the "tell-tale heart" that's difficult to hide, especially if the emotion is legitimate. If you are a body language expert, you could easily spot a remorseful person because their movements are predicated and often limited. That's primarily why I don't believe Eric.
I don't understand why you are bringing up body language in regard to Eric's supposed expression of remorse when none of us have ever been able to view the tape. The study you previously posted does not suggest that showing any emotion at all proves that a person is faking remorse. It is much more complicated and says that the range of emotion in faked remorse is greater and that there is emotional leakage that can indicate deception. It was also a small scale study conducted on 31 college students who had already engaged in the minor transgressions that they felt remorse for so it's not exactly a universal proof that can be applied to every situation, especially that of an emotionally volatile teenager who had not yet committed the grave offense he was referring to.

Remorse (or even guilt) is the wrong word and I think the discussion of whether Eric truly had remorse before he engaged in this massacre is bordering on nonsensical because a person cannot feel remorse or guilt for something they have not yet done. No, Eric certainly did not feel remorse for something he hadn't done because that's impossible whether you are a psychopath or a saint. If he had lived, he may have felt remorse or he may not have but we will never know because he killed himself immediately after the act. If you look at the diversion papers, they asked Eric how often he felt "mixed up or confused" and Eric answered "all the time." I think it's highly probable that Eric genuinely felt conflicted about what he was planning to do but he was set on doing it (knowing the whole time that he would not have to live with the emotional or physical consequences) and that was what he did.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:45 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You think. This seems very far from objective.

Why are you correcting what I'm meaning to say? It's easy to evaluate off his life experiences, how he was when he was pre-teen that he wasn't a cold-hearted person. He had affection for people and things.

Because this this is Hitler/Ted Bundy loved dogs argument.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:55 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Because this this is Hitler/Ted Bundy loved dogs argument.

You have confused me, cause at first you didn't like that I said I knew that he wasn't cold hearted.

I don't really care anymore to be honest, I just wanted to point out that Eric wasn't a complete sociopath especially if he had feelings.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't understand why you are bringing up body language in regard to Eric's supposed expression of remorse when none of us have ever been able to view the tape.

I apologize. I should have quoted my sources before I posted. Most of what I've found about Eric's body language comes from Dave Cullen/Jeff Kass's interviews with Dwayne Fuselier.

Quote :
The study you previously posted does not suggest that showing any emotion at all proves that a person is faking remorse. It is much more complicated and says that the range of emotion in faked remorse is greater and that there is emotional leakage that can indicate deception. It was also a small scale study conducted on 31 college students who had already engaged in the minor transgressions that they felt remorse for so it's not exactly a universal proof that can be applied to every situation, especially that of an emotionally volatile teenager who had not yet committed the grave offense he was referring to.

I think you misunderstood the study I presented. The study illustrated how complicated remorse truly is--not only for the victims, but for the perpetrator. The range of emotions that these college students exhibited in the study proves that lying is more difficult for the perpetrator because they must hone their skills on the fly. I've participated in field research on this subject--remorse feigning-- in a county jail. The perpetrators of the crimes were so skilled at behavioral suppression that they were able to exhibit calm, rational behavior without blinking an eye. Other times, the perpetrators sometimes cracked jokes or fidgeted when asked a simple question. Most of the time, the perpetrators got inconsistent when pressed hard enough. So, in summation, lying becomes an act, and the act become a lie.

However, I would like to point out that this study doesn't discredit what other researchers have done in the past, only to show that deceit, like you've mentioned, is difficult to quantify. Social science is full of casual relationships.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


Dave Cullen/Jeff Kass's interviews with Dwayne Fuselier.


Rolling Eyes

I agree with what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said. I think Eric was definitely capable of empathy, and he did (at least at some point) sincerely feel bad about the pain he would bring his family and others. But his rage and "mixed up or confused" feelings were stronger and allowed him to commit the crime. This is just my opinion based on what I've learned about Eric, but of course there will always be people who give the same information a different meaning and are convinced that he really was a psychopath. It's a neverending debate.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I should have quoted my sources before I posted. Most of what I've found about Eric's body language come from Dave Cullen/Jeff Kass's interviews with Dwayne Fuselier.
Could you post the exact information you were referring to?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think you misunderstood the study I presented. The study illustrated how complicated remorse truly is--not only for the victims, but for the perpetrator. The range of emotions that these college students exhibited in the study proves that lying is more difficult for the perpetrator because they must hone their skills on the fly. I've participated in field research on this subject in a county jail. The perpetrators of the crimes were so skilled at behavioral suppression that they were able to exhibit rational, calm behavior without blinking an eye. The study doesn't discredit what other researchers have done in the past, only to show that deceit, like you've mentioned, is difficult to quantify. Social science is full of casual relationships.
How am I misunderstanding the study if I stated that the study showed remorse was much more complicated than your brief analysis suggested and you just agreed with me? I thought that you had oversimplified your explanation of the results (which I did too, to be honest) and I also wanted to express that I didn't understand why you brought up the study in this context in the first place. Was it meant to be a comment on Eric Harris' facial expressions and body language in the basement tapes? The people in the study were speaking to other people in the room while expressing remorse and Eric Harris was looking into a camera by himself. This is one major difference that could have a substantial effect on how much "eye contact" there was in the video and this seems to be a major indication for you that he was lying. Also, in the posted study, a large portion of the results were based on the fact that the facial expressions and body language were carefully examined using thousands of still images recorded during the experiment and then the sequence of emotions were analyzed to see if there was any pattern of frequency or transition between emotional expressions within false and true remorse. I was not aware that this sort of in depth analysis was conducted on the basement tapes by Fuselier so it seems disconnected from the results of the study. Again, I must bring up the important fact that this study (and your own observation of prisoners) was research conducted on actual transgressions that had already taken place (even for the expressions of faked remorse) but Eric had not yet carried out his plan. For a number of reasons, it seems like the wrong research to direct attention to in this discussion and that was my point. I was not saying that the study was invalid but it only seems to be vaguely related to Eric Harris' expression of remorse and should probably not be used to justify the assertion that Eric was being deceitful.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:05 am

I think that a lot of Eric's hate grew up from misconceptions about people. He thought that "gay people should be killed" because for no absolute valid reason he thought of them as weak and wrong. He had prectically zero self-esteem, so targeting minorities maybe made him feel superior. And I agree with what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said. Eric was extremely confused and in search for a scapegoat to shake off his anger. He definitely had a lot of feelings and the desire to improve humanity by making other people aware about their concerns over trivial things, but his philosophy took the wrong turn when he decided that "tabula rasa" was the only option he had left.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:51 pm

That's why probably why a lot of girls rejected him, I mean their had to be a reason why they were scared to go with him to the prom. He acted like an asshole and sometimes he thought he was better than everyone else.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:06 pm

[quote="BlackandWhite"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree with what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said. I think Eric was definitely capable of empathy,

I'm confused. Did I ever say he wasn't capable of feeling empathy?
Also, before I get into this, I just want to say I disagree with Fuselier's assessment. I only brought up Fuselier because I agree with his statement about Eric's guilt: if he felt any sort of remorse, he wouldn't have done it. That's all.

Quote :
but of course there will always be people who give the same information a different meaning and are convinced that he really was a psychopath. It's a neverending debate.

If you click on my name, and look at the posts I've written, you will see that I disagree with Cullen, and that I have serious problems with his book from a psychologist's point of view. I don't see what we disagree about, other than I don't believe Eric really felt any remorse for his family or friends. If he felt empathy, he wouldn't have gone through with his plan. Eric knew the repercussions for his family, he knew the consequences, but he didn't care. Therefore, I doubt Eric's apologies were genuine.

As I've mentioned in the post to sscc, before I lost everything I wrote in that post, I said that body language is only part of the equation, albeit a secondary part. We also need to take into consideration what Eric said, as well as his body language. We can do that because Dwayne Fuselier had analyzed every frame of the basement tapes. He was able to pick up on Eric and Dylan's nonverbal cues. If you look at those cues in juxtaposition to Eric's verbal statements, you would find it difficult to believe Eric.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

How am I misunderstanding the study if I stated that the study showed remorse was much more complicated than your brief analysis suggested and you just agreed with me?

I said feigning remorse is difficult, although I noted that some people are quite good at it, like Eric.

I wrote to you about this in a long post; however because I took so long to type out my message, I lost everything I typed because this website logged me out, and now I don't feel like typing it again. However, I want to apologize. I looked through my copy of Dave Cullen's book and discovered that Dwayne Fuselier was talking about Dylan's eye movements and expressions, not Eric's. Sue Klebold gives a more detailed account of Eric's hand gestures and Dylan's body language. I marked these passages up because you can't find those minute details in the basement tape transcript. For Jeff Kass, I will have to look at my copy again later on tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Also, before I get into this, I just want to say I disagree with Fuselier's assessment. I only brought up Fuselier because I agree with his statement on Eric's guilt: if he felt any sort of remorse, he wouldn't have done it. That's all.

If you click on my name, and look at the posts I've written, you will see that I disagree with Cullen, and that I have serious problems with his book from a psychologist's point of view. I don't see what the issue is, other than I don't believe Eric really felt any remorse for his family or friends. If he had any sort of empathy, he wouldn't have gone through with his plan. Eric knew the repercussions for his family, he knew the consequences, but he didn't care. Therefore, I doubt Eric's apologies were genuine.
Isn't it possible to know the repercussions of an action, feel guilty or conflicted while imagining what you're going to do and do it anyway? I think people do this all the time. Sometimes they write in their suicide notes "I'm so sorry for what I'm about to do but I have to do it," which is almost exactly what Eric said. Does going through with the suicide knowing that they are going to terribly hurt the people that they love mean that their expression of guilt is not genuine? I don't think so. The logic that someone can't possibly feel guilty about something and do it anyway (because the guilt would prevent them from doing it if they really meant it) is not indisputable unless you have already conceived of this person as incapable of feeling empathy or remorse.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I think people do this all the time. Sometimes they write in their suicide notes "I'm so sorry for what I'm about to do but I have to do it," which is almost exactly what Eric said.

Eric jokes about duping his parents in the basement tapes, and he also states that intervention wouldn't have helped and laughs about this quite often. I admit that suicidal people do exactly what you have said, but that is a false equivalence. In the basement tapes, Eric treats his parents as if they are a means to an end, and we know what that end is. I couldn't imagine a suicidal person joking about what he or she will do, or thank his or her lucky stars that their plans succeeded, but as Sue Klebold has said, murder-suicides are so rare, so I don't know for certain. I just have a problem trusting admitted liars.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
However, I want to apologize. I looked through my copy of Dave Cullen's book and discovered that Dwayne Fuselier was talking about Dylan's eye movements and expressions, not Eric's. Sue Klebold gives a more detailed account of Eric's hand gestures and Dylan's body language. I marked these passages up because you can't find those minute details in the basement tape transcript. For Jeff Kass, I will have to look at my copy again later on tonight.
No problem. I have not read Kass' book. I did a quick search for information about Fuselier's analysis but I have not been able to locate specific information about Eric's body language while apologizing, only Cullen relating that "to the untrained eye, he seemed sincere" yet the psychologists saw a psychopath. From what I have read, he seems to base the idea that Eric's apologies were not genuine on the fact that he made justifications and went through with it anyway more than anything else.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:19 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't believe Eric really felt any remorse for his family or friends. If he felt empathy, he wouldn't have gone through with his plan. Eric knew the repercussions for his family, he knew the consequences, but he didn't care. Therefore, I doubt Eric's apologies were genuine.

Don't you think it's possible that eric HAD empathy and remorse and then he STOPPED having it thus giving up, making it easier to commit homicide ala people who snapped. I think it is possible to know the repercussions and know that it would he hurt his loved ones but SELFISHNESS and THROWING HIS HANDS UP on being better is done for him. He would rather kill and commit suicide.

I believe his apologies are genuine. He wouldn't be wasting time saying them on the basement tape if it were fake. Sure it could be his last facade, but I can't help but know in my gut feeling he really meant them. If any of the two had any form of last remorse at all it is Eric cause Dylan was just out of it from the get-go.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:25 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Isn't it possible to know the repercussions of an action, feel guilty or conflicted while imagining what you're going to do and do it anyway?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WOULD KNOW THIS CAUSE THIS IS ME MYSELF! I HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS!

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
However, I want to apologize. I looked through my copy of Dave Cullen's book and discovered that Dwayne Fuselier was talking about Dylan's eye movements and expressions, not Eric's. Sue Klebold gives a more detailed account of Eric's hand gestures and Dylan's body language. I marked these passages up because you can't find those minute details in the basement tape transcript. For Jeff Kass, I will have to look at my copy again later on tonight.
No problem. I have not read Kass' book. I did a quick search for information about Fuselier's analysis but I have not been able to locate specific information about Eric's body language while apologizing, only Cullen relating that "to the untrained eye, he seemed sincere" yet the psychologists saw a psychopath. From what I have read, he seems to base the idea that Eric's apologies were not genuine on the fact that he made justifications and went through with it anyway more than anything else.

It seems that way. But if you think about it for a moment, and it doesn't seem illogical. To Fuselier, Eric's apologies went like this: "I am sorry, but I had to do this," or "I'm sorry for the shit I'll put you through, but you know, war is war, etc." Fuselier thought he was making excuses instead of genuine apologies.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:09 am

He was most definitely NOT a sociopath. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fucking idiot. He would write about how he's been avoiding his family so it will be easier for them when they die, and in the basement tapes he told his family he was sorry and not to blame themselves and it's not there fault, would write about how he was insecure, especially around girls, and would write about how he was bitter that people wouldn't give him a chance and hangout with him because they perceived him as weird. That is NOT a sociopath. A sociopath has no empathy for anyone and regards themselves as higher than everyone and people as objects. He was even taking medication for depression. You want an example of a sociopath, ted bundy is one.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:25 am

Ted Bundy, who worked at a crisis centre (suicide hotline, basically), saved a three year old boy from drowning, tried helping in catching the Green River Killer, successfully chased down a purse-thief in a mall and returned the purse to the owner and such? Razz

You see, the "but s/he did this and that right, and he was caring towards this and that person" argument can go for almost all of these high profile murderers. Columbine, by far and large is not unique in this regard; in fact most people who study other crimes in the tcc can tell you: the "was s/he a psychopath/sociopath?" conundrum is present for the vast majority of discussions regarding other criminals being discussed.

Based on all of those discussions alone, I'm banking on yes, Eric Harris (and Dylan Klebold) were psychopaths. But psychopathy, in my personal opinion, seems to be a gradient rather than a yes or no question. The question isn't whether Bundy was a monster, or Eric was a monster: they are murderers who unleashed wanton cruelty, and by default, monsters they are. The question is just how much. Not as exciting, I know.

And yes, Bundy was, indeed, a psychopath. We know, because he killed people, and delighted in their suffering. Just like Eric and Dylan did.

When you end up murdering (on purpose, and not in the heat of the moment) and you love it, then yes, something is really wrong with you.  Cuckoo

Also, may I politely ask you not to refer to anyone as a "f-king idiot" just because their opinion happens to differ from yours? It makes people reconsider whether to participate in thoughtful discussions with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Ted Bundy, who worked at a crisis centre (suicide hotline, basically), saved a three year old boy from drowning, tried helping in catching the Green River Killer, successfully chased down a purse-thief in a mall and returned the purse to the owner and such? Razz

You see, the "but s/he did this and that right, and he was caring towards this and that person" argument can go for almost all of these high profile murderers. Columbine, by far and large is not unique in this regard; in fact most people who study other crimes in the tcc can tell you: the "was s/he a psychopath/sociopath?" conundrum is present for the vast majority of discussions regarding other criminals being discussed.

Based on all of those discussions alone, I'm banking on yes, Eric Harris (and Dylan Klebold) were psychopaths. But psychopathy, in my personal opinion, seems to be a gradient rather than a yes or no question. The question isn't whether Bundy was a monster, or Eric was a monster: they are murderers who unleashed wanton cruelty, and by default, monsters they are. The question is just how much. Not as exciting, I know.

And yes, Bundy was, indeed, a psychopath. We know, because he killed people, and delighted in their suffering. Just like Eric and Dylan did.

When you end up murdering (on purpose, and not in the heat of the moment) and you love it, then yes, something is really wrong with you.  Cuckoo

Also, may I politely ask you not to refer to anyone as a "f-king idiot" just because their opinion happens to differ from yours? It makes people reconsider whether to participate in thoughtful discussions with you.

This needed to be said. There are too many top commenters on here who are steadfast in the belief that Eric was most definitely not a psychopath (Dylan never even enters the conversation). I think that's a closed minded and presumptuous position to say the least. At least grant that psychopathy and sociopathy are better viewed as a spectrum rather than stark black and white. With that said, Eric and Dylan committed premeditated murder of numerous innocent strangers. That pushes them further along the spectrum.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:22 pm

I haven't read Eric's journal for awhile and have only a basic understanding of psychology from high school, so excuse me if I get some stuff stumbled.
I'm not going to put a divination "yes" or "no" on him being a psychopath, but simply my take on what I've noticed.
I think Eric had a lot going on inside of him with crazy ups and downs, as well as time with emotion or a complete disconnect from them. As stated above, with his family background, father's military career, and his high school experience- Eric was ground to a nub of a person. I see him as being relatively normal up until probably middle school and high school. You might also take into account how kids were raised and the areas he grew up in, but I'm not saying this is 100% the reason as to why he was the person he was. It could have a bit of an effect though.
As it was stated above, Eric had a caring family, but was probably a bit strict with his father. I can probably see as to how he might became a person to bottle up emotion more than show it. If I'm correct, he grew up primarily in the mid-west which, from experience, is more conservative and people can be brutal. This with a mix of bottled emotions and the possible bullying as he entered adolescence can probably explain his anger at a younger age. Especially with some of the things Sue said in her book about both him and Dylan in middle school (I think it was).
Enter high school and he's completely faced with more.
With trying to probably follow in his father/brother's footsteps, the lack of respect he got from people a school because of his deformity (and how people, specially girls, treated him), his height, weight, and some of the movie or game characters he idolized- he shrunk into himself as a person. I feel this is evident from the videos of him and his body language. He doesn't seem confident no matter how much he tries to show he has. But he was also described as relatively nice in school. Yes he could have been lying but I don't really think so. As stated above as well, it seems as though he took on his persona or alter ego of "Rebel" and used it as his expresser. It was said before, he started this journal around the time of the creation of the NBK planning. At this point, he had snapped and wanted the be Reb. He wanted the infamy of what would become Columbine. So he wrote a shock value journal that he wanted to be read and found. I mean, he directly states why and what he wanted people to know about the massacre. I do think there is real emotion mixed into it, thus a lot of the contradictions in it. I do think a lot of both journals also haven't been released because they seem too short and choppy. We're only getting bits.
But I do also know this. You can only take so much before snapping. I know from my own experiences that there were times in high school that I completely disconnected from reality and went on my own rampage. I didn't care about anything or anyone anymore until something brought me back to reality and probably resulted in some kind of breakdown and I think this can explain both Eric and Dylan in the last month or so before 4/20.
Wasn't there something saying that on part of the basement tapes that Eric is crying in his car because he was thinking about something? I don't think Eric lacked emotion. I think he simply sunk back and forth between feeling nothing and something.
When the shooting actually did happen. I think he completely snapped and instead of wanted to be the persona of "Reb", he became it. Thus why he went though with everything and just didn't care anymore. Wanted to fulfill his desire.
I think this happened to both Dylan and Eric and why they were so dead set at this point of doing it and why nothing could stop them, if not motivate them more. They just stopped caring.

Sorry this was a bit long or confusing, I just tried to explain the best I could my view of Eric.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I haven't read Eric's journal for awhile and have only a basic understanding of psychology from high school, so excuse me if I get some stuff stumbled.
I'm not going to put a divination "yes" or "no" on him being a psychopath, but simply my take on what I've noticed.
I think Eric had a lot going on inside of him with crazy ups and downs, as well as time with emotion or a complete disconnect from them. As stated above, with his family background, father's military career, and his high school experience- Eric was ground to a nub of a person. I see him as being relatively normal up until probably middle school and high school. You might also take into account how kids were raised and the areas he grew up in, but I'm not saying this is 100% the reason as to why he was the person he was. It could have a bit of an effect though.
As it was stated above, Eric had a caring family, but was probably a bit strict with his father. I can probably see as to how he might became a person to bottle up emotion more than show it. If I'm correct, he grew up primarily in the mid-west which, from experience, is more conservative and people can be brutal. This with a mix of bottled emotions and the possible bullying as he entered adolescence can probably explain his anger at a younger age. Especially with some of the things Sue said in her book about both him and Dylan in middle school (I think it was).
Enter high school and he's completely faced with more.
With trying to probably follow in his father/brother's footsteps, the lack of respect he got from people a school because of his deformity (and how people, specially girls, treated him), his height, weight, and some of the movie or game characters he idolized- he shrunk into himself as a person. I feel this is evident from the videos of him and his body language. He doesn't seem confident no matter how much he tries to show he has. But he was also described as relatively nice in school. Yes he could have been lying but I don't really think so. As stated above as well, it seems as though he took on his persona or alter ego of "Rebel" and used it as his expresser. It was said before, he started this journal around the time of the creation of the NBK planning. At this point, he had snapped and wanted the be Reb. He wanted the infamy of what would become Columbine. So he wrote a shock value journal that he wanted to be read and found. I mean, he directly states why and what he wanted people to know about the massacre. I do think there is real emotion mixed into it, thus a lot of the contradictions in it. I do think a lot of both journals also haven't been released because they seem too short and choppy. We're only getting bits.
But I do also know this. You can only take so much before snapping. I know from my own experiences that there were times in high school that I completely disconnected from reality and went on my own rampage. I didn't care about anything or anyone anymore until something brought me back to reality and probably resulted in some kind of breakdown and I think this can explain both Eric and Dylan in the last month or so before 4/20.
Wasn't there something saying that on part of the basement tapes that Eric is crying in his car because he was thinking about something? I don't think Eric lacked emotion. I think he simply sunk back and forth between feeling nothing and something.
When the shooting actually did happen. I think he completely snapped and instead of wanted to be the persona of "Reb", he became it. Thus why he went though with everything and just didn't care anymore. Wanted to fulfill his desire.
I think this happened to both Dylan and Eric and why they were so dead set at this point of doing it and why nothing could stop them, if not motivate them more. They just stopped caring.

Sorry this was a bit long or confusing, I just tried to explain the best I could my view of Eric.  

Yes. Eric was crying thinking about his friends he would never get to see again.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes.  Eric was crying thinking about his friends he would never get to see again.

Or he was acting. None of us have seen the video. We should petition Randy Brown.

As much as no one wants to admit, the psychopathy theory explains a lot. Eric planned a massacre for a year and then carried it out. He didn't "snap." Also, there are millions of young people who suffer far greater atrocities and never go on to hurt anyone. Consider Eric's strict father, moving around as a child, chest deformity, etc. against kids who are molested, beaten, starved, neglected, raised on the streets in gang cultures, raised in the midst of major military conflicts, etc. and Eric's problems, I'm sorry to say, are small potatoes.

It's easy to go down the Columbine rabbit hole and deconstruct and over analyze everything we know about E&D. But let's not get lost in our own narratives and lose perspective. I, for one, wish I had a mother who was half the woman Sue Klebold was/is. There are millions of people who can list their problems alongside E&D's and make them look like spoiled, attention seeking brats.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
and Eric's problems, I'm sorry to say, are small potatoes.

Whoa whoa whoa hold up, wait a minute, two seconds sweetie.

YOU cannot tell another person how big or small their problems which THEY deem are problems is. It is what YOU think and YOUR perspective but in THEIR MINDS, it can be huge, struggling and suffering to them. it may be hard for YOU to grasp that but as long as to THEM it is hurting them, they have the right to feel that they are miserable.

CLEARLY what he went through was bad enough for him as he decided he hated himself and was tired the world that he killed everyone else.

This is in line with people who try to compare issues and try to tell others how to feel and that other people have it worst. No no. If I think my issues are destroying me, that's how I feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:28 pm

And I strongly believe he cried and was immensely upset that he lost his childhood friends. If they didn't mean anything to him he wouldn't be writing about them, missing them greatly. I think if he never moved and grew up with them he would be happy and get by normally.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:32 pm

Blame that on Wayne Harris, apparently he didn't care enough about how his son felt  moving to a different state.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Blame that on Wayne Harris, apparently he didn't care enough about how his son felt  moving to a different state.
I think he now regrets it... But Eric had made new friends. Teenagers don't really want to share their problems with parents. And many on the surface seem not so bad. Parents might think the family is well settled in the new place.

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