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 Eric Harris quote about psychopathy

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runreilly

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:53 pm

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and Eric's problems, I'm sorry to say, are small potatoes.

Whoa whoa whoa hold up, wait a minute, two seconds sweetie.

YOU cannot tell another person how big or small their problems which THEY deem are problems is. It is what YOU think and YOUR perspective but in THEIR MINDS, it can be huge, struggling and suffering to them. it may be hard for YOU to grasp that but as long as to THEM it is hurting them, they have the right to feel that they are miserable.

CLEARLY what he went through was bad enough for him as he decided he hated himself and was tired the world that he killed everyone else.

This is in line with people who try to compare issues and try to tell others how to feel and that other people have it worst. No no. If I think my issues are destroying me, that's how I feel.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I knew this response was coming. It's always the same. 'People are affected by things differently.' 'People interpret things differently.' This is a shallow, post-modernist response and can be used in almost every situation. Taken to its logical extent it's utterly ridiculous and carries so little information that one has to wonder why it needs constant restating. It also stifles any real analysis or comparison. For instance, we can't compare Eric Harris and his concave chest to a teenager who watched in horror as his family was mutilated in Auschwitz because 'their perspectives.' And we'll conveniently ignore the numbers. The only thing we are left with are conjecture and imagination, but not the sort of imagination that entertains the possibility that Eric was actually far along on the psychopath spectrum. That might hurt our feelings for him. And no one had better call his grievances "small potatoes!" Mad

At least acknowledge that even the most exhaustive list of E&D's problems and negative experiences pale in comparison to hundreds of millions of teenagers around the world. This is part of what makes them so enigmatic. It's incredibly rare that low self esteem results in mass murder. It does happen, and we're usually quick to conclude that the perpetrators might have had some serious psychological issues. We look into it objectively and ask the uncomfortable questions.

I think you're consumed by Columbine to the extent that perhaps it clouds your judgement. It seems you're ready and willing to victimize E&D and give the benefit of doubt whenever possible. I doubt you have such charitable views for people like Jim Jones and Omar Mateen.

And I'll just say it so you don't have to: Yes, it's possible that trauma from bullying, low self esteem, and a chest deformity drove Eric to extensively plan and execute mass murder. A mass murder so callous and unsympathetic that it actually included a very large number of friends and acquaintances.

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runreilly

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:09 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
YOU cannot tell another person how big or small their problems which THEY deem are problems is. It is what YOU think and YOUR perspective but in THEIR MINDS, it can be huge, struggling and suffering to them. it may be hard for YOU to grasp that but as long as to THEM it is hurting them, they have the right to feel that they are miserable.

You're missing the part where they tried to blow up the school and parking lots.  It's kind of an important part, but you missed it while you were busy sticking up for E&D's rights.

Ya know, I've never cared much for ketchup.  In fact, I'm going to blow up the next restaurant that serves me ketchup, even if friends and family work there.  Will you be there to surmise that this was the work of ketchup-induced trauma?  Will you be calling out people who marginalize my strong feelings against ketchup?  Will you flatly reject any notion of possible psychopathic tendencies?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And I strongly believe he cried and was immensely upset that he lost his childhood friends. If they didn't mean anything to him he wouldn't be writing about them, missing them greatly. I think if he never moved and grew up with them he would be happy and get by normally.

Sounds like the Eric Harris of Shades' imagination. He literally ruined the lives of his friends and family. He didn't have to do this. If cared about his parents or brother (or anyone else), he could have settled for shooting himself. I think his actions show a complete lack of care for anyone but himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
and Eric's problems, I'm sorry to say, are small potatoes.

Whoa whoa whoa hold up, wait a minute, two seconds sweetie.

YOU cannot tell another person how big or small their problems which THEY deem are problems is. It is what YOU think and YOUR perspective but in THEIR MINDS, it can be huge, struggling and suffering to them. it may be hard for YOU to grasp that but as long as to THEM it is hurting them, they have the right to feel that they are miserable.

CLEARLY what he went through was bad enough for him as he decided he hated himself and was tired the world that he killed everyone else.

This is in line with people who try to compare issues and try to tell others how to feel and that other people have it worst. No no. If I think my issues are destroying me, that's how I feel.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I knew this response was coming.  It's always the same. 'People are affected by things differently.'  'People interpret things differently.'  This is a shallow, post-modernist response and can be used in almost every situation.  Taken to its logical extent it's utterly ridiculous and carries so little information that one has to wonder why it needs constant restating.  It also stifles any real analysis or comparison.  For instance, we can't compare Eric Harris and his concave chest to a teenager who watched in horror as his family was mutilated in Auschwitz because 'their perspectives.'  And we'll conveniently ignore the numbers.  The only thing we are left with are conjecture and imagination, but not the sort of imagination that entertains the possibility that Eric was actually far along on the psychopath spectrum.  That might hurt our feelings for him.  And no one had better call his grievances "small potatoes!"   Mad

At least acknowledge that even the most exhaustive list of E&D's problems and negative experiences pale in comparison to hundreds of millions of teenagers around the world.  This is part of what makes them so enigmatic.  It's incredibly rare that low self esteem results in mass murder.  It does happen, and we're usually quick to conclude that the perpetrators might have had some serious psychological issues.  We look into it objectively and ask the uncomfortable questions.

I think you're consumed by Columbine to the extent that perhaps it clouds your judgement.  It seems you're ready and willing to victimize E&D and give the benefit of doubt whenever possible.  I doubt you have such charitable views for people like Jim Jones and Omar Mateen.

And I'll just say it so you don't have to:  Yes, it's possible that trauma from bullying, low self esteem, and a chest deformity drove Eric to extensively plan and execute mass murder.  A mass murder so callous and unsympathetic that it actually included a very large number of friends and acquaintances.  
The fact that people are affected differently by the same things certainly has meaning. An individual's perception of the world can only be filtered through the lens of their personality which is largely a result of their previous life experiences. It is an important point even if it is not an explanation. You see Eric's problems as small potatoes and in comparison to someone living in a concentration camp, this is true. That is irrelevant. When it comes to emotion, perception is everything. Did Dylan really have a good reason to feel suicidally depressed and isolated with his privileged upbringing, loving parents, several close friends and a brother who cared about him? Maybe not. I don't think you would deny that Dylan's perception of his situation was more important than the reality.

Telling a depressed person to "think of the starving children in Africa!" will rarely make them feel less depressed because emotional disorders are not logical or rational. For a healthy and functional person, this may have an effect but we must develop skills to deal with emotional regulation and neither Eric nor Dylan had many healthy coping mechanisms. Eric generally held back his anger, fantasizing about revenge, ranting on the internet or in his journal until he blew up and punched walls. Dylan withdrew, spending most of his time in his room while he got drunk and self-harmed. Both of them were getting into physical and verbal confrontations and acting out in antisocial ways by their late teens. Neither one knew how to deal with their "small potatoes."

Some shooters have experienced severe trauma but not all of them, and the majority of traumatized people do not commit a mass shooting so this would not be an explanation in itself. The experts don't believe psychopathy was involved in Dylan's case so if you take their assessment as truth, then we already know that it's possible, despite living an ostensibly comfortable life, for perceived trauma, self-esteem issues and emotional problems to lead to mass murder.

Earlier in the thread you pointed to the fact that Eric planned for a year before he killed as proof of psychopathic behavior. By that logic, any killer that does not act in the heat of the moment is a psychopath and we know that this is not true. We know that Dylan did not snap either. He did the same thing as Eric and Eric actually had several issues that Dylan did not (multiple moves and having to leave friendships behind, physical deformity and short stature making him a target for bullies) so this is an inadequate evaluation. I think that if you want to prove that Eric is a psychopath, you need much more than "he didn't have it so bad" and "he planned to kill for a long time." I think that the majority of people who disagree with the psychopath assessment would argue that Eric was definitely dysfunctional in some way, but there are other explanations for mass murder. I don't know whether Eric was a psychopath or not but you have not provided evidence to support your position.

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shades
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:44 pm

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sounds like the Eric Harris of Shades' imagination.

Nope.

and what does him ending up committing homicide afterwards have anything to do with the fact that he missed his childhood friends?..

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:13 pm

I just wonder if Eric's parents ever told him before all this happened, "We love you Eric" them saying those 4 words could've gone a long way. Wayne called his own son a "psycho" I know he did a horrendous thing, but I just wonder what went on in that household prior to the shooting?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:47 pm

It didn't seem to help Dylan.

From Sue's book:

One of the most painful questions people ask suicide loss survivors is whether or not we ever hugged our kids. The question hurts, not only for the obvious reasons (only thousands of times; what kind of mother doesn’t hug her kid?) but, in my case, because of a specific incident—indeed, a specific hug—that took place in the last two weeks of Dylan’s life. One afternoon we passed each other in the hallway at the foot of the stairs. Spontaneously, I threw my arms around him.

“I love you so much,” I told him. “You are such a wonderful person, and Dad and I are so proud of you.” He rested his left hand gently on my back, barely touching me. With the jokingly haughty air we sometimes used to thank each other for elaborate and ridiculous compliments, he thanked me. But I didn’t want him to make a joke of this, which I meant with all my heart, and so I took his thin jawbone in both of my hands and looked directly into his eyes.

“No kidding around, Dylan: I mean it. I love you so much. You are a wonderful person, and Dad and I are proud of you.”

He looked down, embarrassed, and whispered his thanks.

For years, I replayed this scene in my mind. Afraid that it would become distorted through repetition, I wrote it down. I can see it like a movie now, two figures in the hallway, his hand on the small of my back, me reaching up to hold his face. The memory of that hug is one of the most painful I hold—and the knowledge that, to this day, I have no idea what on earth Dylan could possibly have been thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:44 am

Glad to know my depression isn't real because I didn't grow up in a concentration camp!

That excerpt from Sue is so painful and sad. I feel for her.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:59 pm

I thought it was interesting that the exchange between Dylan and his mom took place 2 weeks before the shooting.

Obviously, it did not have any effect on Dylan's decision to go through with the shooting.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:38 pm

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I don't know whether Eric was a psychopath or not but you have not provided evidence to support your position.

When did this become my position?  I simply entertain the possibility.  I'm willing to imagine it as a spectrum on which people can be further along than others.  Some others on this forum are utterly convinced that Eric was not.  That's the closed-minded position at least from what I have read on here. Arguments such as "I have a gut feeling" and "I know in my heart" are inadequate.  E&D apologetics are nauseating.  The general lack of apologetics and fangirl/fanboy talk are what make this forum better than the rest (not to mention the knowledge many members have are very impressive and helpful).  

E&D were a special kind of 'depressed and angry.'  They weren't just 'suicidal' and I think we should agree that 'revenge seeking' is a particularly weak.  No one can point out any motivation for slaughtering Kyle Velasquez or Daniel Mauser without extrapolating out into the stratosphere (i.e. "They wanted to kill the school").  

They meticulously planned to kill hundreds of innocent people and we're lucky they failed.  It should be fair to say that their perceptions of reality were filtered through disgusting and warped personalities.  Broken personalities.  Personalities that lacked dignity and empathy to an astonishing degree.

I find it amazing that some on here can regularly pontificate about the positive personality traits of E&D... but call them enigmatic, entertain the notion that psychopathy was a factor, and call their problems "small potatoes" and certain members are triggered.  

Everyone on here is asking the same question:  Why did they do it?  An honest conversation about psychopathy would be interesting and shouldn't be shrugged off with a roll of the eyes because of Fuselier and Cullen.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know whether Eric was a psychopath or not but you have not provided evidence to support your position.

When did this become my position?  I simply entertain the possibility.  I'm willing to imagine it as a spectrum on which people can be further along than others.  Some others on this forum are utterly convinced that Eric was not.  That's the closed-minded position at least from what I have read on here.  Arguments such as "I have a gut feeling" and "I know in my heart" are inadequate.  E&D apologetics are nauseating.  The general lack of apologetics and fangirl/fanboy talk are what make this forum better than the rest (not to mention the knowledge many members have are very impressive and helpful).  

E&D were a special kind of 'depressed and angry.'  They weren't just 'suicidal' and I think we should agree that 'revenge seeking' is a particularly weak.  No one can point out any motivation for slaughtering Kyle Velasquez or Daniel Mauser without extrapolating out into the stratosphere (i.e. "They wanted to kill the school").  

They meticulously planned to kill hundreds of innocent people and we're lucky they failed.  It should be fair to say that their perceptions of reality were filtered through disgusting and warped personalities.  Broken personalities.  Personalities that lacked dignity and empathy to an astonishing degree.

I find it amazing that some on here can regularly pontificate about the positive personality traits of E&D... but call them enigmatic, entertain the notion that psychopathy was a factor, and call their problems "small potatoes" and certain members are triggered.  

Everyone on here is asking the same question:  Why did they do it?  An honest conversation about psychopathy would be interesting and shouldn't be shrugged off with a roll of the eyes because of Fuselier and Cullen.

If you think E&D were further along on the psychopath spectrum, then isn't it your position that they were psychopaths (or just Eric)? I rolled my eyes at Fuselier and Cullen in another post because in my opinion, they were close-minded about the situation. I don't think most of us on here are 100% certain that Eric wasn't a psychopath, because that would be silly, because none of us can really know for sure. I'd be open to an honest conversation about the possibility of psychopathy, but I also don't think "triggered" is the correct word to use with someone who disagrees with you, and who you call "close-minded".
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:14 pm

In my opinion I think Eric just had enough of life to sum it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Guest wrote:
Most of Eric's journal seems like it was written FOR everyone to find and read

he even writes in his journal that so&so wont be able to read it as he'll be dead...so he was definitely writing knowing it would be found and act as his manifesto.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris quote about psychopathy   Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:45 am

Quote :
He stated " I wish I was a fucking sociopath so I didn't have any remorse, but I do"


I think he is confusing "remorse" with another term, since remorse is something you feel after you've committed a bad deed. He seems to think that a sociopath is someone who shoots multiple strangers without any hesitation whatsoever. So I think that's what he felt at the time he wrote this line; hesitation.
That doesn't automatically mean that he can't be a psychopath/sociopath. Because killing, unless it's done in self-defense, is a highly unnatural act since we're programmed to survive as a species. Psychopaths/Sociopaths may have a warped way of thinking, but that doesn't mean that they lack human instincts altogether.

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