"We Would Have Been Friends"

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Dylan probably just didn't like the awkward social interactions that Eric may have gotten into, so he tried to minimize it. But when it came down to it and he had nothing to lose, he was extremely cruel during the shooting. He was also cruel when writing or talking privately to Eric (you can see in his yearbook writings, and as seen on TBT transcripts).

That is another thing that shocked people about Dylan. Which is why Dylan was scarier in many ways. He was a wolf in sheeps clothing.

He was known to be a gentle, shy and goofy kid then unleashed his own cruel hell on people.

I still don't think Dylan was 100% evil, just like I don't think Eric was a psychopath devoid of emotions. They were both equally culpable. I was more speaking of how they were at school day to day.

I agree that they were both culpable. I just don't feel right assigning more blame to one than the other. They both did what they did, both took part in the shooting and planning, and enjoyed doing it.

I know there is tons of evidence to look over to form an opinion on who's idea it was, but we will never know for certain, so I don't feel right making that claim.

Exactly . Just because Dylan wrote about it first doesn't mean that the boys didn't talk about it well before.

Littlelo wrote:

Dylan probably just didn't like the awkward social interactions that Eric may have gotten into, so he tried to minimize it. But when it came down to it and he had nothing to lose, he was extremely cruel during the shooting. He was also cruel when writing or talking privately to Eric (you can see in his yearbook writings, and as seen on TBT transcripts).

Eric cared way too much what people thought of him. Dylan honestly could not care less what the guy next door thought. He just wanted to kill people then himself.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Dylan probably just didn't like the awkward social interactions that Eric may have gotten into, so he tried to minimize it. But when it came down to it and he had nothing to lose, he was extremely cruel during the shooting. He was also cruel when writing or talking privately to Eric (you can see in his yearbook writings, and as seen on TBT transcripts).

That is another thing that shocked people about Dylan. Which is why Dylan was scarier in many ways. He was a wolf in sheeps clothing.

He was known to be a gentle, shy and goofy kid then unleashed his own cruel hell on people.

I still don't think Dylan was 100% evil, just like I don't think Eric was a psychopath devoid of emotions. They were both equally culpable. I was more speaking of how they were at school day to day.

I agree that they were both culpable. I just don't feel right assigning more blame to one than the other. They both did what they did, both took part in the shooting and planning, and enjoyed doing it.

I know there is tons of evidence to look over to form an opinion on who's idea it was, but we will never know for certain, so I don't feel right making that claim.

Exactly . Just because Dylan  wrote about it  first doesn't mean that the boys didn't talk about it well before.

Are you kidding me? Why was he off ranting about Zach being his go-to-guy then and not Eric?

Eric was always the second choice. He and Dylan weren't talking about it "well before". Evidence seriously suggests this.

And I'm not suggesting Eric wasn't evil. He was a nasty piece of work along with Dylan. But I think Dylan's sociopathic tendencies are overlooked time and time again.

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Dylan DID originally plan to do the shooting with Zach. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will provide proof of this as she has done many times in the past.

Dylan didn't get the chance to bring the idea to Zach because he got a girlfriend and they drifted apart.

Yeah, Eric talked about "killing" Brooks Brown. He wasn't sitting around talking about killing 50 people then himself NBK style like Dylan.

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Dylan DID originally plan to do the shooting with Zach. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will provide proof of this as she has done many times in the past.

Dylan didn't get the chance to bring the idea to Zach because he got a girlfriend and they drifted apart.

Yeah, Eric talked about "killing" Brooks Brown. He wasn't sitting around talking about killing 50 people then himself NBK style like Dylan.

Huh, I guess I never saw that proof, I'd be very interested to see.

Eric did talk about wanting to kill almost all of Denver's residents, too. Although I don't know at what point he wrote that.

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Exactly.

We also will never know what they talked about in their day to day lives. One can't assume because something wasn't written down it wasn't talked about. Zach also seemed to have his own temper.. leaving a nasty note in Devons exes locker, getting into a fight with her that was so bad one of them tried jumping out of a moving car..

Dylan also wanted to do NBK with a girl too... they both wanted to kill.

Littlelo wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Dylan DID originally plan to do the shooting with Zach. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will provide proof of this as she has done many times in the past.

Dylan didn't get the chance to bring the idea to Zach because he got a girlfriend and they drifted apart.

Yeah, Eric talked about "killing" Brooks Brown. He wasn't sitting around talking about killing 50 people then himself NBK style like Dylan.

Huh, I guess I never saw that proof, I'd be very interested to see.

Eric did talk about wanting to kill almost all of Denver's residents, too. Although I don't know at what point he wrote that.

After he already started his journal... It was in some point in July 1998, the same time he talked about how he was watching National Geographic or something and how it showed animals were meant to kill.

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Dylan DID originally plan to do the shooting with Zach. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will provide proof of this as she has done many times in the past.

Dylan didn't get the chance to bring the idea to Zach because he got a girlfriend and they drifted apart.

Yeah, Eric talked about "killing" Brooks Brown. He wasn't sitting around talking about killing 50 people then himself NBK style like Dylan.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - During the time that you were taking a break from Columbine, I made a thread about this topic. I never really talked to you about it because you weren't really into Columbine at the time and we'd always talk about other crime stories and watch the forensic crime shows. Anyways, for the longest time, I did think that Dylan's original choice was to go on a shooting with Zack, but after I went through his journal again, I noticed something. It was actually some girl that was Dylan's first choice.

Dylan wrote this on February 2, 1998:

Dylan Klebold wrote:

Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

He refers to the person he wants to go on a shooting with as "her" and then it made perfect sense to me because I remembered how you told me all about "Natural Born Killers". You know, the movie you watched that I wouldn't watch with you because it looked too violent and you still told me everything that happened anyways, lol.

Well I remembered you telling me that it was a guy and the girl he was in love with that went on the shooting spree and Dylan was obsessed with that movie. His original idea was that he actually wanted to go shoot people with this girl, not with Zack and not with Eric. And that is why Dylan called his idea for the shooting "NBK" because he wanted to copy the movie with this girl. We don't know which girl it is but he definitely made it clear that it was a girl.

For the longest time, I must have overlooked that it said "her" and I was certain he was talking about Zack because he had mentioned how upset he was that Zack got a girlfriend and wouldn't do missions with him anymore.

Once I figured out it was actually a girl and not Zack and with you telling me what actually happened in the movie, it made so much sense to me why Dylan named it "NBK". And now I have no doubts whatsoever that the idea originally was Dylan's and that he wanted to do it with his love interest and he wanted to name it after his favorite movie, "NBK".

Dylan wrote about him and the girl in February. And then 2 months later is when Eric started his journal. I'd be willing to bet that sometime between February and April is when Dylan started mentioning his idea for "NBK" to Eric. I think Dylan knew realistically he wasn't going to go on a shooting spree with this girl because she probably didn't even know he existed since all the girls he seemed to like were ones he never even really talked to.

And I know Eric loved to write stuff down. He had all kinds of things he wrote down - like jokes, like his missions, like his hate for Brooks, his blogs, his stories, he had multiple profiles on AOL. I have no doubt that once Eric was let in on this idea and agreed that he wanted to do it, he would have immediately started writing about it. He never mentioned a word about it prior to April of 1998 because he was not the one thinking up the idea, Dylan was.

Here's the link to my thread if you wanna read it.  https://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/t2528-dylan-s-journal

So what do you think? Do you believe this too? Don't get me wrong, I do still think that if Dylan could pick a friend to do it with, it would have been Zack but I think he knew Zack wouldn't be willing and that Eric probably would. And besides, Zack had been drifting away and spending more time with his girlfriend than he was with Dylan so at that point, I doubt he would have even brought it up to Zack because he knew Zack would probably tell Devon and he wouldn't want to get caught, you know?

You know what boyfriends are like, they like to talk their girlfriend's ear off about everything.

Jenn wrote:

Ivan wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

I don't know if Zach being called a "go to guy" suggests that Dylan originally planned to do the shooting with him though. Plus if he had brought the idea to Zach in a serious capacity, wouldn't he have said something to someone out of concern?

There is definitely compelling evidence that points to Dylan bringing Eric into the plan first, but I don't see anything concrete enough to confirm this. Especially considering how much Eric wrote about killing people too.

Dylan DID originally plan to do the shooting with Zach. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will provide proof of this as she has done many times in the past.

Dylan didn't get the chance to bring the idea to Zach because he got a girlfriend and they drifted apart.

Yeah, Eric talked about "killing" Brooks Brown. He wasn't sitting around talking about killing 50 people then himself NBK style like Dylan.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - During the time that you were taking a break from Columbine, I made a thread about this topic. I never really talked to you about it because you weren't really into Columbine at the time and we'd always talk about other crime stories and watch the forensic crime shows. Anyways, for the longest time, I did think that Dylan's original choice was to go on a shooting with Zack, but after I went through his journal again, I noticed something. It was actually some girl that was Dylan's first choice.

Dylan wrote this on February 2, 1998:

Dylan Klebold wrote:

Soon... either ill commit suicide, or I'll get w. [edited] & it will be NBK for us. My hapiness. her hapiness. NOTHING else matters.

He refers to the person he wants to go on a shooting with as "her" and then it made perfect sense to me because I remembered how you told me all about "Natural Born Killers". You know, the movie you watched that I wouldn't watch with you because it looked too violent and you still told me everything that happened anyways, lol.

Well I remembered you telling me that it was a guy and the girl he was in love with that went on the shooting spree and Dylan was obsessed with that movie. His original idea was that he actually wanted to go shoot people with this girl, not with Zack and not with Eric. And that is why Dylan called his idea for the shooting "NBK" because he wanted to copy the movie with this girl. We don't know which girl it is but he definitely made it clear that it was a girl.

For the longest time, I must have overlooked that it said "her" and I was certain he was talking about Zack because he had mentioned how upset he was that Zack got a girlfriend and wouldn't do missions with him anymore.

Once I figured out it was actually a girl and not Zack and with you telling me what actually happened in the movie, it made so much sense to me why Dylan named it "NBK". And now I have no doubts whatsoever that the idea originally was Dylan's and that he wanted to do it with his love interest and he wanted to name it after his favorite movie, "NBK".

Dylan wrote about him and the girl in February. And then 2 months later is when Eric started his journal. I'd be willing to bet that sometime between February and April is when Dylan started mentioning his idea for "NBK" to Eric. I think Dylan knew realistically he wasn't going to go on a shooting spree with this girl because she probably didn't even know he existed since all the girls he seemed to like were ones he never even really talked to.

And I know Eric loved to write stuff down. He had all kinds of things he wrote down - like jokes, like his missions, like his hate for Brooks, his blogs, his stories, he had multiple profiles on AOL. I have no doubt that once Eric was let in on this idea and agreed that he wanted to do it, he would have immediately started writing about it. He never mentioned a word about it prior to April of 1998 because he was not the one thinking up the idea, Dylan was.

Here's the link to my thread if you wanna read it.  https://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/t2528-dylan-s-journal

So what do you think? Do you believe this too? Don't get me wrong, I do still think that if Dylan could pick a friend to do it with, it would have been Zack but I think he knew Zack wouldn't be willing and that Eric probably would. And besides, Zack had been drifting away and spending more time with his girlfriend than he was with Dylan so at that point, I doubt he would have even brought it up to Zack because he knew Zack would probably tell Devon and he wouldn't want to get caught, you know?

You know what boyfriends are like, they like to talk their girlfriend's ear off about everything.

There's just no way Eric thought of this before Dylan brought it to him. Zero percent chance.

Yes, that is for sure what I had when I was a little kid. Thank you, I am sure Eric may have had that in some form, he did say that Doom was burned into his mind and everything have a relation to it, but he also said that about N.B.K too.

Jenn wrote:

And I know Eric loved to write stuff down. He had all kinds of things he wrote down - like jokes, like his missions, like his hate for Brooks, his blogs, his stories, he had multiple profiles on AOL. I have no doubt that once Eric was let in on this idea and agreed that he wanted to do it, he would have immediately started writing about it. He never mentioned a word about it prior to April of 1998 because he was not the one thinking up the idea, Dylan was.

I had not read this part of the thread before but I like this paragraph.  It makes so much sense

Yeah Dylan was the originator of the plan without a doubt. Dylan lived and breathed the film Natural Born Killers down do his dress style, attitude and also how he handled the actual shooting.

Would I have been friends with them? Well my friendship group was actually labelled 'the weirdos' as we dressed differently - goth, emo, skater, listened to 'different' music and were at the bottom of the pile socially. So yeah I'm guessing that if they were going to join a group in my country, at my time it would have been mine. I'd probably have been more comfortable talking to Eric if he was super nice and kind to the people he liked. As Dylan seemed much more aggressive in class etc I think I would have been a little bit scared of him.