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 An overlooked explanation?

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bobloblaw



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PostSubject: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:40 pm

ive always thought the shirts that the killers wore on 4/20 were a tell tale sign of their motivations. it may be too simple but its worth noting.

Dyan - wrath - his ultimate goal was to die. im going to die but im going to make you all suffer for doing this to me.

Eric - natural selection - his ultimate goal was to rid the world of idiotic sheep in a doom like manner, nbk was a mission to him. he hated what he couldn't be apart of.

thoughts?
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fantasykingdom985

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:18 pm

I think you may have someting there.

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aubre



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:18 pm

Their shirts should have looked like this: Dylan Sad - Eric Twisted Evil  Depressed-Psycho, I think anyway...
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bobloblaw



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Their shirts should have looked like this: Dylan Sad - Eric Twisted Evil  Depressed-Psycho, I think anyway...

I'm not sure if you were referring to the Cullen theory but i totally disagree with it.
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aubre



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Their shirts should have looked like this: Dylan Sad - Eric Twisted Evil  Depressed-Psycho, I think anyway...

I'm not sure if you were referring to the Cullen theory but i totally disagree with it.

Yeah sorry I was just bored Smile
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meenwhile



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:31 pm

silent


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Gustopoet2

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:39 pm

Nice post meenhwile, thanks for this info.

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meenwhile



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:46 pm

silent


Last edited by meenwhile on Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aubre



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:03 pm

Eric believing he was better than everyone, seems to me, like a defense mechanism he used against his extreme insecurity's and self-hatred, and then reinforced by Dylan saying the same things. He grew to believe everything he told himself. But I don't think it started out that way. His hatred for others likely stemmed from alienation, but also because he knew he was sick and different from them.
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LPorter101

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric believing he was better than everyone, seems to me, like a defense mechanism he used against his extreme insecurity's and self-hatred, and then reinforced by Dylan saying the same things. He grew to believe everything he told himself. But I don't think it started out that way. His hatred for others likely stemmed from alienation, but also because he knew he was sick and different from them.

Yes, I've always seen as it the flip side of an extreme inferiority complex.

A guy with excessive self-regard doesn't blow his brains out in the way that Eric did.
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aubre



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric believing he was better than everyone, seems to me, like a defense mechanism he used against his extreme insecurity's and self-hatred, and then reinforced by Dylan saying the same things. He grew to believe everything he told himself. But I don't think it started out that way. His hatred for others likely stemmed from alienation, but also because he knew he was sick and different from them.

Yes, I've always seen as it the flip side of an extreme inferiority complex.

A guy with excessive self-regard doesn't blow his brains out in the way that Eric did.

Yes exactly. If he was really this huge narcissist, he would have likely became a CEO of some business or a cult leader or a teacher. There was more going on with him than just a huge ego.
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meenwhile



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:27 pm

silent


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Nirvana92

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:05 am

I've talked about this before. The shirts were visual representations of their beliefs and motivations. However they were also a way for the boys differentiate themselves from each other and make NBK more personal on an individual level. The boys planned NBK together for a year but they had very different reasons for wanting to go through with it. They shared their rage and beliefs with each other and formed the plan from parts of each boys fantasies.

Eric wanted a grand attack with lots of explosions, death, and destruction. He wanted to prove him self an alpha male to the rest of the world and to kill those he deemed lesser than himself. He would become a living breathing form of the concept he saw as "Natural Selection". He would choose who lived and died and by doing so he would become an unstoppable force of nature. Eric wanted to teach the world how pointless society is. By going NBK he would kick start a revolution and change the world.

Dylan was content with a simple shooting spree. He wanted to kill to feel something. To give back all the hurt and sadness he felt the world forced upon him. Unlike Eric NBK was to be spiritually cathartic in Dylan's eyes. By killing he was unleashing his god-like "Wrath" and exorcising his inner demons. After he'd released all his hate he'd be pure enough to die and enter the Halcyon he long so much for. Dylan never really cared about the message Eric wanted to get across to the world. He played along though because Eric's idea of using bombs would make his "Wrath" even more potent. Not only that, but it gave him a point of no return. Like I've said before you just can't come back from killing 500 people. Eric's contributions to the plan assured there would be no after. His hate would be released and he'd be forcibly granted the death he craved.

So yeah, to me the shirts were individual to each of them and allowed a small piece of NBK to be personal. By just seeing the shirts you get a good idea of the mind set of the boy wearing it. It was a way for them both to say "This is why I'M doing this" without having to actually explain themselves.
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bobloblaw



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've talked about this before. The shirts were visual representations of their beliefs and motivations. However they were also a way for the boys differentiate themselves from each other and make NBK more personal on an individual level. The boys planned NBK together for a year but they had very different reasons for wanting to go through with it. They shared their rage and beliefs with each other and formed the plan from parts of each boys fantasies.

Eric wanted a grand attack with lots of explosions, death, and destruction. He wanted to prove him self an alpha male to the rest of the world and to kill those he deemed lesser than himself. He would become a living breathing form of the concept he saw as "Natural Selection". He would choose who lived and died and by doing so he would become an unstoppable force of nature. Eric wanted to teach the world how pointless society is. By going NBK he would kick start a revolution and change the world.

Dylan was content with a simple shooting spree. He wanted to kill to feel something. To give back all the hurt and sadness he felt the world forced upon him. Unlike Eric NBK was to be spiritually cathartic in Dylan's eyes. By killing he was unleashing his god-like "Wrath" and exorcising his inner demons. After he'd released all his hate he'd be pure enough to die and enter the Halcyon he long so much for. Dylan never really cared about the message Eric wanted to get across to the world. He played along though because Eric's idea of using bombs would make his "Wrath" even more potent. Not only that, but it gave him a point of no return. Like I've said before you just can't come back from killing 500 people. Eric's contributions to the plan assured there would be no after. His hate would be released and he'd be forcibly granted the death he craved.

So yeah, to me the shirts were individual to each of them and allowed a small piece of NBK to be personal. By just seeing the shirts you get a good idea of the mind set of the boy wearing it. It was a way for them both to say "This is why I'M doing this" without having to actually explain themselves.

solid post. agree 100%. that's what i was getting at but obviously i didn't explain it like you did. and i think people try to over analyze everything, the shirts basically summed up everything. a very simple but overlooked clue.
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Dico



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:21 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Eric and Dylan have those shirts specifically made for them and that event?
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aubre



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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've talked about this before. The shirts were visual representations of their beliefs and motivations. However they were also a way for the boys differentiate themselves from each other and make NBK more personal on an individual level. The boys planned NBK together for a year but they had very different reasons for wanting to go through with it. They shared their rage and beliefs with each other and formed the plan from parts of each boys fantasies.

Eric wanted a grand attack with lots of explosions, death, and destruction. He wanted to prove him self an alpha male to the rest of the world and to kill those he deemed lesser than himself. He would become a living breathing form of the concept he saw as "Natural Selection". He would choose who lived and died and by doing so he would become an unstoppable force of nature. Eric wanted to teach the world how pointless society is. By going NBK he would kick start a revolution and change the world.

Dylan was content with a simple shooting spree. He wanted to kill to feel something. To give back all the hurt and sadness he felt the world forced upon him. Unlike Eric NBK was to be spiritually cathartic in Dylan's eyes. By killing he was unleashing his god-like "Wrath" and exorcising his inner demons. After he'd released all his hate he'd be pure enough to die and enter the Halcyon he long so much for. Dylan never really cared about the message Eric wanted to get across to the world. He played along though because Eric's idea of using bombs would make his "Wrath" even more potent. Not only that, but it gave him a point of no return. Like I've said before you just can't come back from killing 500 people. Eric's contributions to the plan assured there would be no after. His hate would be released and he'd be forcibly granted the death he craved.

So yeah, to me the shirts were individual to each of them and allowed a small piece of NBK to be personal. By just seeing the shirts you get a good idea of the mind set of the boy wearing it. It was a way for them both to say "This is why I'M doing this" without having to actually explain themselves.

solid post. agree 100%. that's what i was getting at but obviously i didn't explain it like you did. and i think people try to over analyze everything, the shirts basically summed up everything. a very simple but overlooked clue.

We're all kind of beating the dead horse here, we might over-analyze a bit, but the world is not black and white. But yes, the shirts do offer some insights into their individual motivations and even into their basic psychology.
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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:50 am

I think its worth noting that Eric mentioned Natural Selection directly in his journals, but iirc Dylan never used this word in his journal. He did supposedly speak about it on BT.

Also... I'm not sure, but wasn't "Wrath" a KMFDM inspired shirt? Wrath is a song from the album Xtort, Eric was a big fan so Dylan prolly as well.


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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:41 pm

I'm sure that what you say [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] about the tshirts is most definately true, but there is more to it, from reading their journals and watching their available videos, in that they were also intent on having 'revenge' over those who they felt had wronged them within the school, and on the school itself.

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Nirvana92, I really like your point of view.
Still, Eric didn't like his life, despite his loud statements about natural selection. I think deep down he still felt like a loser.

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:16 pm


One of Dylan's last statements on the Basement Tapes was:

Just know I’m going to a better place. I didn’t like life too much and I know I’ll be happy wherever the fuck I go. So I’m gone. Good-bye.
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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Nirvana92, I really like your point of view.
Still, Eric didn't like his life, despite his loud statements about natural selection. I think deep down he still felt like a loser.

Eric knew he was flawed and was still very conscious of it. Eric's massive inferiority complex and delusional/narcissistic ideology mirrors that of a young Adolph Hitler.
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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
massive inferiority complex and delusional/narcissistic ideology
Do you feel that this description applies to Dylan as well? I think it does.

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PostSubject: Re: An overlooked explanation?   Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
massive inferiority complex and delusional/narcissistic ideology
Do you feel that this description applies to Dylan as well? I think it does.

I'd say close with the inferiority complex but resulting in depression and loathing vs the false bravado that Eric truly adopted.. Dylan could play the false bravado game in bits and pieces, but Eric literally took on and embraced a new ID full time in the closing year.

I think a lot of people consider Eric to be the ring leader due to the alpha ties to NPD whereas Dylan the beta due to the loathing and depression. It took the perfect storm to all go down and these two complimented each other so well.. hence there will always be only one "Columbine".
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