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 Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"

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Gustopoet2

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:48 pm

Sabratha, if you do not accept psycho-history as clinical science and you agree that an "educated guess" is all that can be done with Hare's index, then why mention Hare at all?

Please see the definition of psychobabble:

"a form of speech or writing that uses psychological jargon, buzzwords, and esoteric language to create an impression of truth or plausibility. The term implies that the speaker or writer lacks the experience and understanding necessary for the proper use of psychological terms. Additionally, it may imply that the content of speech deviates markedly from common sense and good judgement.

Frequent use of psychobabble can associate a clinical, psychological word with meaningless, or less meaningful, buzzword definitions. Laypersons often use such words when they describe life problems as clinical maladies even though the clinical terms are not meaningful or appropriate."

So, "psychopathy" is not recognized by the APA; psycho-history is not science, and Hare himself claims that the index shouldn't be used by laypersons even to make educated guesses.

So all reference to Eric Harris being a psychopath (or having psychopathic tendencies) by laypersons that is based on Hare's clinical (but not APA accepted) approach is by definition psychobabble. Period.

You may take a baroque, seemingly studied approach to psychobabble but it still has no clinical validity whatsoever. And is therefore absolutely meaningless in terms of gaining any insight into Columbine.

Also, I feel that are not reading my posts very closely as I have already mentioned the distinction between psycho-history and clinical psychology many, many times upstream, along with placing Hare's model in context, many times.

You or anyone else who wants to assert or imply that Eric Harris was a psychopath has to contend with two main issues: 1) you have no CLINICAL basis for making this assertion 2) You are engaging in dubious psycho-history.

It is all well and good for you to say you understand the difference between psycho-history and clinical diagnosis, but in your assertions (and others') claims about Eric Harris, this distinction is never present. It is "Eric Harris was a psychopath. Hare's model proves it."

Cullen even hawks his book as "We finally know why the killers did it!"

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Psychopathy is not an accepted designation of mental illness by the APA; psycho-history is not a science, Hare's model is ill-equipped to be used as  tool for psycho-history; therefore, the entire argument that Eric Harris was a psychopath is nothing more than a bunch of unsubstantiated drivel, perpetuated by people who would really just like to sweep NBK under the rug and spout  pseudoscience to make themselves seem important and knowledgeable.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:26 pm

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It is all well and good for you to say you understand the difference between psycho-history and clinical diagnosis, but in your assertions (and others') clams about Eric Harris, this distinction is never present. It is "Eric Harris was a psychopath. Hare's model proves it."

Feel free to quote me on that. In every longer and more detailed thread I wrote about this topic I have stressed that I'm not making a formal diagnosis. If in some other post I have abbreviated it to and oversimplified it as "Hare's model proves it", then I'm sorry for the confusion, however I do not recall any post where I have said this.

I mention Hare because I believe an educated guess is the best we will get either way (and Hare is at least a widely accepted and thoroughly tested model using reliable diagnostic tools). Every psychological professional will tell you the same - you can't really diagnose Eric as normal and non-disordered, not by using Hare's model, not by using any other psychological model, not by using any sociological, medical or anthropological model either. Because he's dead and cannot be properly evaluated.

I don't feel like continuig on about this, as I feel we'l just be goign round in circles.  

I don't feel strongly enough about Eric's psychopathy to care all that much. Eric is dead, he'll never be properly diagnosed hence saying that he was normal or not is just guesswork anyways.

With all I know about Eric, I believe he likely was psychopathic to some degree, given his actions and how these might tie in with psychopathic behavior. But we will never be sure and everyone is free to make their own conclusion.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Quote :
It is all well and good for you to say you understand the difference between psycho-history and clinical diagnosis, but in your assertions (and others') clams about Eric Harris, this distinction is never present. It is "Eric Harris was a psychopath. Hare's model proves it."

Feel free to quote me on that. In every longer and more detailed thread I wrote about this topic I have stressed that I'm not making a formal diagnosis. If in some other post I have abbreviated it to and oversimplified it as "Hare's model proves it", then I'm sorry for the confusion, however I do not recall any post where I have said this.

If you are not making a formal diagnosis, then there is no validity to using the term "psychopath." It is a clinical term. Using a clinical term to describe an informal diagnosis is by definition psychobabble. I have no problem with people playing armchair psychologist; I am happy to do so myself. There is a very fine line between psycho-history and psychobabble. The line is blurred so far as to be meaningless when you use Hare's psychological checklist for psychopathy because of Hare's own admonition that is not applicable for use by a layperson under any circumstances.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I mention Hare because I believe an educated guess is the best we will get either way (and Hare is at least a widely accepted and thoroughly tested model using reliable diagnostic tools). Every psychological professional will tell you the same - you can't really diagnose Eric as normal and non-disordered, not by using Hare's model, not by using any other psychological model, not by using any sociological, medical or anthropological model either. Because he's dead and cannot be properly evaluated.

Right. What you are not acknowledging is that the "educated guess" is basically worthless form anything other than an anecdotal point of view.

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I don't feel like continuig on about this, as I feel we'l just be goign round in circles.  

I don't feel strongly enough about Eric's psychopathy to care all that much. Eric is dead, he'll never be properly diagnosed hence saying that he was normal or not is just guesswork anyways.

With all I know about Eric, I believe he likely was psychopathic to some degree, given his actions and how these might tie in with psychopathic behavior. But we will never be sure and everyone is free to make their own conclusion.


Fair enough. If someone can provide an actual clinical basis to support the idea that Eric was a psychopath I'd love to hear it. The psycho-historical basis seems to me to be pretty flimsy.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:05 pm

Doctors do postmortem diagnoses all the time.  Every one that's looked at the massacre said Eric's a psychopath.  Hare even linked it on his site.

If you want to say you don't believe it, that's fine.  Just don't say there's no clinical basis for it.  There is. It's Dr. Ochberg, Dr. Langman, and Dr. Hare all saying it.  

They are all psychiatrists and they know a lot better than you what they can and can't do.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:48 pm

Eric as if justified by saying that he has a goal, which motivates him to do these horrible things. He never apologizes to the victims, but constantly justifies its actions. Something that actually I'm not a monster, but you're all going to die anyway, because I decided so.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Doctors do postmortem diagnoses all the time.  Every one that's looked at the massacre said Eric's a psychopath.  Hare even linked it on his site.

If you want to say you don't believe it, that's fine.  Just don't say there's no clinical basis for it.  There is. It's Dr. Ochberg, Dr. Langman, and Dr. Hare all saying it.  

They are all psychiatrists and they know a lot better than you what they can and can't do.
Can you link Hare's endorsement of Eric's psychopath diagnosis? I remembered you saying this several times and I tried to locate it but I could only find a link to Cullen's article in a section with a disclaimer that this was media coverage on the topic of psychopathy posted "strictly for interest sake" with a special note for this particular article saying
hare.org wrote:
An article by Dave Cullen, April 20, 2004. *NOTE: Some of Dr. Hare's work was used by the investigators and the writer but Dr. Hare was not directly involved in the psychological assessments.
It doesn't sound like he has endorsed the diagnosis personally and none of his quotes in the article appear to be specifically about Columbine and are, instead, general comments on psychopathy.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:29 pm

Well I'll say this, if Eric was a psychopath for killing innocent people, then I suppose we could also say Jesus is a complete psychopath, because his theory is "worship me or else, I'll kill you or you'll die and go to hell." If that's not psychopath behavior, I don't know what is.

"Oh Jesus wasn't a psychopath."

Well so if Jesus wasn't a psychopath, neither was Eric. Eric was hurting and the only way he felt he could stop the hurt was by killing those who were making him hurt.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Well I'll say this, if Eric was a psychopath for killing innocent people, then I suppose we could also say Jesus is a complete psychopath, because his theory is "worship me or else, I'll kill you or you'll die and go to hell." If that's not psychopath behavior, I don't know what is.

"Oh Jesus wasn't a psychopath."

Well so if Jesus wasn't a psychopath, neither was Eric. Eric was hurting and the only way he felt he could stop the hurt was by killing those who were making him hurt.

He didn't kill the people who made him hurt. Did he shoot the kid who punched him in the face over Kristi Epling? Were Steven Curnow, Rachel Scott and Kyle Velasquez throwing ketchup covered tampons at him? If the school "in general" was making him hurt, well, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. And we're right back at Cullen, with Eric hating "everybody."
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:49 am

Whether Eric was a true psychopath or not will be debated until the end of time. Truth is no one truly knows or will ever know for a fact if he was or not.

His diagnosis was based on his writings and his perceived behavior at the time. It is all speculation, assumptions, and educated guesses.

I do think Eric was somewhere on the psychopathic spectrum. He was angry on the outside, but seemed deeply hurt on the inside. As for him being a total unfeeling, uncaring, completely evil person? No, I just don't believe that.

Either way he decided to turn that anger and hurt loose and the result was 15 people lost their lives, many were injured, and countless others traumatized and mentally scarred for life. In my opinion he may not have been a true psychopath but he did end up acting the part.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:26 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Whether Eric was a true psychopath or not will be debated until the end of time. Truth is no one truly knows or will ever know for a fact if he was or not.

His diagnosis was based on his writings and his perceived behavior at the time. It is all speculation, assumptions, and educated guesses.

I do think Eric was somewhere on the psychopathic spectrum. He was angry on the outside, but seemed deeply hurt on the inside. As for him being a total unfeeling, uncaring, completely evil person? No, I just don't believe that.

Either way he decided to turn that anger and hurt loose and the result was 15 people lost their lives, many were injured, and countless others traumatized and mentally scarred for life. In my opinion he may not have been a true psychopath but he did end up acting the part.


Um, yes Jesus does. If you don't worship him and believe in him, Jesus is hurt by it, but just like Eric, Jesus doesn't show that hurt through hurt, he shows it through WRATH (sound familiar?) and sends plagues and Earthquakes and diseases to kill those who have hurt them and then when they die, it's stated that he sends them to a place of torment called hell....all because he was hurt but he hid his hurt behind anger.


Yeah - sounds like a psycho to me. Furthermore, despite what Eric and Dylan did - and it was horrendous, that doesn't mean they were psychopaths. They were pushed to do what they did. It was wrong but they were pushed - and if you don't know how they were pushed....Well then with all due respect, there's no need of me talking further because you don't get school bullying and being pushed to the breaking point - at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:48 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Whether Eric was a true psychopath or not will be debated until the end of time. Truth is no one truly knows or will ever know for a fact if he was or not.

His diagnosis was based on his writings and his perceived behavior at the time. It is all speculation, assumptions, and educated guesses.

I do think Eric was somewhere on the psychopathic spectrum. He was angry on the outside, but seemed deeply hurt on the inside. As for him being a total unfeeling, uncaring, completely evil person? No, I just don't believe that.

Either way he decided to turn that anger and hurt loose and the result was 15 people lost their lives, many were injured, and countless others traumatized and mentally scarred for life. In my opinion he may not have been a true psychopath but he did end up acting the part.


Um, yes Jesus does. If you don't worship him and believe in him, Jesus is hurt by it, but just like Eric, Jesus doesn't show that hurt through hurt, he shows it through WRATH (sound familiar?) and sends plagues and Earthquakes and diseases to kill those who have hurt them and then when they die, it's stated that he sends them to a place of torment called hell....all because he was hurt but he hid his hurt behind anger.


Yeah - sounds like a psycho to me. Furthermore, despite what Eric and Dylan did - and it was horrendous, that doesn't mean they were psychopaths. They were pushed to do what they did. It was wrong but they were pushed - and if you don't know how they were pushed....Well then with all due respect, there's no need of me talking further because you don't get school bullying and being pushed to the breaking point - at all.

I think you meant to quote and respond to LunkHead McGrath, as you and he/she were the ones talking about Jesus.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:34 pm

Eric Harris wrote:
"I have a goal to destroy as much as possible so I must not be sidetracked by my feelings of sympathy, mercy, or any of that, so I will force myself to believe that everyone is just another monster from Doom like FH or FS or demons, so It's either me or them. I have to turn off my feelings."

Why does Eric sound like me on my period? RIP.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric Harris wrote:
"I have a goal to destroy as much as possible so I must not be sidetracked by my feelings of sympathy, mercy, or any of that, so I will force myself to believe that everyone is just another monster from Doom like FH or FS or demons, so It's either me or them. I have to turn off my feelings."

Why does Eric sound like me on my period? RIP.


I think most females can relate during certain times of the month! Haha

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:40 pm

I'm an atheist so correct me if I'm being unfair about the Jesus analogy, but how does comparing Eric's actions to bible stories allow you to say he is not a psychopath?

It's impossible to diagnose someone postmortem, and most people on this thread acknowledge that. But that also means you can't really rule anything out either. We can only speculate.

Eric didn't kill his bullies. He killed whatever kids happened to be in his way that day, and whoever was unfortunate enough to be hiding in the library. Bullying was not the sole cause of Columbine. If bullying was the only thing that it took to cause a school shooting, there would be thousands more cases around the world.

To put it simply, there is no ONE reason that can be attributed to causing Columbine. And as far as E&D's mental health, all we can do is speculate. But I personally don't believe anyone on this forum should be telling others that they know for sure what they did or did not have wrong with them.

ETA: I am also not saying I believe Eric was a psychopath. I really have no idea, and we haven't seen his diagnosis from his doctor so we will never know what Dr. Albert thought either.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
we haven't seen his diagnosis from his doctor so we will never know what Dr. Albert thought either.

Dr. Albert sounded like he was a shitty doc though. I don't think I would trust whatever conclusions he came to.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
we haven't seen his diagnosis from his doctor so we will never know what Dr. Albert thought either.

Dr. Albert sounds like he was a shitty doc though. I don't think I would trust whatever conclusions he came to.

I don't know much about him other than he didn't pick up on any warning signs Eric may have been showing enough to notify the right people. Unless Eric didn't set off any red flags during their sessions.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Whether Eric was a true psychopath or not will be debated until the end of time. Truth is no one truly knows or will ever know for a fact if he was or not.

His diagnosis was based on his writings and his perceived behavior at the time. It is all speculation, assumptions, and educated guesses.

I do think Eric was somewhere on the psychopathic spectrum. He was angry on the outside, but seemed deeply hurt on the inside. As for him being a total unfeeling, uncaring, completely evil person? No, I just don't believe that.

Either way he decided to turn that anger and hurt loose and the result was 15 people lost their lives, many were injured, and countless others traumatized and mentally scarred for life. In my opinion he may not have been a true psychopath but he did end up acting the part.


Um, yes Jesus does. If you don't worship him and believe in him, Jesus is hurt by it, but just like Eric, Jesus doesn't show that hurt through hurt, he shows it through WRATH (sound familiar?) and sends plagues and Earthquakes and diseases to kill those who have hurt them and then when they die, it's stated that he sends them to a place of torment called hell....all because he was hurt but he hid his hurt behind anger.


Yeah - sounds like a psycho to me. Furthermore, despite what Eric and Dylan did - and it was horrendous, that doesn't mean they were psychopaths. They were pushed to do what they did. It was wrong but they were pushed - and if you don't know how they were pushed....Well then with all due respect, there's no need of me talking further because you don't get school bullying and being pushed to the breaking point - at all.

I think you meant to quote and respond to LunkHead McGrath, as you and he/she were the ones talking about Jesus.

Oh, sorry ShadowedGoddess , I'm new to this forum, so I'm trying to get accustomed to replying to others and the sort.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm an atheist so correct me if I'm being unfair about the Jesus analogy, but how does comparing Eric's actions to bible stories allow you to say he is not a psychopath?

It's impossible to diagnose someone postmortem, and most people on this thread acknowledge that. But that also means you can't really rule anything out either. We can only speculate.

Eric didn't kill his bullies. He killed whatever kids happened to be in his way that day, and whoever was unfortunate enough to be hiding in the library. Bullying was not the sole cause of Columbine. If bullying was the only thing that it took to cause a school shooting, there would be thousands more cases around the world.

To put it simply, there is no ONE reason that can be attributed to causing Columbine. And as far as E&D's mental health, all we can do is speculate. But I personally don't believe anyone on this forum should be telling others that they know for sure what they did or did not have wrong with them.

ETA: I am also not saying I believe Eric was a psychopath. I really have no idea, and we haven't seen his diagnosis from his doctor so we will never know what Dr. Albert thought either.

No you don't have thousands of cases of people killing their fellow students because of bullying, but you DO have thousands of kids killing THEMSELVES because of bullying, Eric and Dylan decided to kill themselves too but they also decided to take others to death with them as they go. Like I said, I am NOT excusing their actions. It was indeed WRONG but I can understand the anger and hurt behind what they did. You can't keep pushing people and pushing people and pushing people and think they won't strike back. Some people strike back by killing themselves, others go even further and strike back by killing anyone and everyone in their way, everyone reacts differently to the bullying abuse that they go through.

However yeah, if you were to bring Eric and Dylan BACK from the dead and ask them - "Eric, Dylan, why did you decide to go kill off kids at Columbine?" I put my entire life on the line on the fact that they will say, "we were being bullied and we were being bullied every day and we got tired of it, we wanted to send a message to the world that we were furious at what we were going through at Columbine."

Because also, didn't another poster on this forum once say that Eric stated in his journal that NBK could have been stopped if people just accepted him and liked him. So there ya go! Lol, there's your motive right there! No one liked him nor did anyone accept him and with jocks, if jocks don't like or accept you, they're going to bully you, so there ya go.

I mean because if bullying wasn't why Eric and Dylan did what they did, then why didn't they kill kids when they both went to Ken Caryl Middle school? If they just wanted to murder for the sake of murdering, why didn't they kill their parents and brothers? The guy or girl who probably looked at them wrong or talked smart to them at their local store, why didn't Eric and Dylan just go back to that store one day and kill them? No they thought up the idea to kill kids at COLUMBINE, and in their JUNIOR year, so what happened in their junior year for them to think that up? Furthermore, what happened for them to turn from good kids at  Ken Caryl and even before Ken Caryl, and then they get to Columbine and in their JUNIOR year, they change?? Oh yeah, I know! Bullying! People want to put labels on others "oh they're mentally ill" or "oh they have psychological problems". What makes people think they're mentally ill?? Was the kid who killed herself this week - was she mentally ill too? Huh? Cause she killed herself after being BULLIED. Was she mentally ill too? Hmm? Please, no....

And I'm not telling anyone that "hey, this is what absolutely was wrong with Eric and Dylan" because like I said in another post I made, NO ONE can do that without having them here and present and doing a mental evaluation - BUT I 500% believe had they not been bullied and had Dylan been accepted and liked, they would not have done NBK. NO ONE accepted these two. Some of the kids at Columbine said it! Some of them said "Eric and Dylan thought by them dressing the way they did and acting they way they did, that they were rebels, but really they came off looking like losers." This is what they said! I mean - hello? lol And Evan Todd, I believe his name was, he said, "when you want to get rid of someone, you bully them."

You know, I'd like for those who are saying, "oh no, bullying can't make people snap and it can't be the sole reason Eric and Dylan snapped", I wish they would go to a school like Columbine and dress and act the way Eric and Dylan dressed and acted and experience first-hand the severe bullying that they went through. That can truly screw up your mind. I know, because I was a victim of bullying for five, long years and it affected me so bad that even today, I have mental flashbacks and emotional setbacks from it. It's why my self esteem today is 95% of the time at a level of zero and others who have been severely bullied have said that even though their bullying happened years back, it still affects them today too.

So if it can affect them and myself in such a way, imagine what it did to like Eric and Dylan. Plain and simple, people want to take the problem away from bullying and put it on mental illness, video games, music, GUNS, when the problem is that bullying is SOMETHING ELSE. It can screw the hell out of a kid's mind and emotional mindset and until people deal with the problem of school bullying, no we won't have kids killing other kids, but we'll have kids killing themselves and it's because of school bullying.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:36 pm

No one is discounting bullying as one of the factors leading up to what happened at Columbine.

I think there are many other things that went into it that may not necessarily fall under "bullying". Both were frustrated with their lives, failing to form long term romantic relationships, falling out with friends or failing to make friends, scared of their future after high school, and at the same time that all of these things are going on, they get arrested together and start planning their revenge on not just the school, but authority figures. They want to shoot police. They are angry and sad and by that point, had entered into a very dangerous and toxic friendship. Their other friends had girlfriends and weren't as close to them anymore.

So many pieces to the puzzle.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
No one is discounting bullying as one of the factors leading up to what happened at Columbine.

I think there are many other things that went into it that may not necessarily fall under "bullying". Both were frustrated with their lives, failing to form long term romantic relationships.

Right, Dylan failed to form long term relationships and therefore he became severely depressed - all because he was at the wrong school. So the solution:

Get him the heck out of Columbine High and put him at a school where the kids (guys and girls) are like him

Eric failed to form long term relationships because no girls at his school really liked him, because he was different. Some kids don't understand different.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
falling out with friends or failing to make friends

Um Eric really didn't have any real friends. Dylan did, Eric - not so much, because no one really liked him.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
scared of their future after high school

Eric scared of his future? Dylan scared of his future? No I don't think so....Why would they be when they were smart? And nothing in their journals indicated that they were scared of their future.


Like I said, people want to shy away from bullying (which is the reason why bullying is still going on today without any serious penalties against because school bullying is the elephant in the room that no one really wants to address or discuss truthfully) but you are right, there is more to what Eric and Dylan did than bullying, because alongside bullying, it was also that damn school they went to. It would have been better had neither of them went to that school, because from everything that I have found, from the moment they started at Columbine, their problems began. It seems to me like besides bullying, Columbine High was the problem, but whatever, what do I know?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Eric scared of his future? Dylan scared of his future? No I don't think so....Why would they be when they were smart? And nothing in their journals indicated that they were scared of their future.
Being smart doesn't guarantee happiness or success or acceptance or respect. People don't just start accepting "different" people once high school ends. The adult world is made up of the same people that torment the outsiders in high school. Some people mature but there is always pressure to conform to the majority. If you are truly different, you will always deal with alienation to some degree.

They never said that they were afraid of what would happen in the future but look at the timing of their massacre. They didn't do anything until the very end of their senior year. It doesn't suggest that they were pushed so far that they snapped because they couldn't bear to go back into that school for one more day. They waited until they were weeks away from being free of Columbine forever. Most of their bullies were already gone. They were supposed to be moving on too, very soon after that. Blowing up and shooting up their school weeks before graduation suggests that they couldn't see a future for themselves. Eric was repeatedly uprooted in his life. I can easily see how the thought of being uprooted once again could add to the turmoil he was experiencing, even if he hated a lot of things about Columbine. Instead of having to figure out what he was supposed to do now and face an uncertain future, he could go out in a blaze of glory and show everyone who was in charge. The idea that Eric and Dylan were afraid of moving on is a very reasonable possibility.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Eric scared of his future? Dylan scared of his future? No I don't think so....Why would they be when they were smart? And nothing in their journals indicated that they were scared of their future.
Being smart doesn't guarantee happiness or success or acceptance or respect. People don't just start accepting "different" people once high school ends. The adult world is made up of the same people that torment the outsiders in high school. Some people mature but there is always pressure to conform to the majority. If you are truly different, you will always deal with alienation to some degree.

They never said that they were afraid of what would happen in the future but look at the timing of their massacre. They didn't do anything until the very end of their senior year. It doesn't suggest that they were pushed so far that they snapped because they couldn't bear to go back into that school for one more day. They waited until they were weeks away from being free of Columbine forever. Most of their bullies were already gone. They were supposed to be moving on too, very soon after that. Blowing up and shooting up their school weeks before graduation suggests that they couldn't see a future for themselves. Eric was repeatedly uprooted in his life. I can easily see how the thought of being uprooted once again could add to the turmoil he was experiencing, even if he hated a lot of things about Columbine. Instead of having to figure out what he was supposed to do now and face an uncertain future, he could go out in a blaze of glory and show everyone who was in charge. The idea that Eric and Dylan were afraid of moving on is a very reasonable possibility.


I was about to say this. I strongly believe they were both very scared of life after high school, or else they would have just waited to graduate. The school itself wasn't the only issue to them. While they did not explicitly state they were scared of the future, they both wrote at length about controlling their destiny and going to a better place because they were more "aware".
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:33 pm

I can’t take his journal serious for some reason
Ask his “booga booga heh.”
It was 100% for the Audience &he knew what he was doing& he knew it would be found.
Maybe he wanted to act that “psycho “ role and not Being the “wimp “kid.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric: "I have to turn off my feelings"   Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:30 pm

He was no doubt writing for an audience. But I think some of the things he was saying he truly believed too.
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