Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Mark Manes and Phil Duran

Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
slippy123

avatar

Posts : 507
Contribution Points : 36468
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-08-25

PostSubject: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:28 pm

Just like to say hello to everyone, this is my first post. I've always been interested in the Columbine shooting. I'm wondering if anyone has any updated info on Mark Manes or Phil Duran. These were the two arrested for supplying / brokering the gun deal for Dyan's TEC-9. I've seen short clips of Phil's trial, but that's about it. I'm looking along the lines of, videos of their trials, pictures of where they are, and what they look like now, what they did after they were released from prison, and did they ever do any interviews telling their side of the story? The two were in the "Rampart Range" shooting the guns that would be used in the Columbine killings a mere month and a half later, so they were pretty close to the kids. I'd like to hear some of their stories of Eric and Dylan, if they ever came forward.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
eli27

avatar

Posts : 493
Contribution Points : 34455
Forum Reputation : 20
Join date : 2015-05-15
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:23 pm

Hi slippy! Welcome Smile

I don't really know much about Manes or Duran, so can't help on that sorry.

_________________
I had it all and I looked at it and I said 'this is a bigger jail than I just got out of'.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Archvile

avatar

Posts : 186
Contribution Points : 30746
Forum Reputation : 3
Join date : 2015-08-21
Age : 27
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:06 pm

Mark Manes did an interview, he said that when he saw the news of the massacre on TV he noticed Eric and Dylan were the same guys that he was doing target practice before a few months prior and since he had sold Dylan his TEC-9 (who was 17) he was panicking that the gun he sold was the one that ended up in the massacre. He also stated that the TEC-9 was his first ever firearm and he had it for many years and he nicknamed it his 'Ghetto gun' and cherished it and was sad when he had to sell it but he needed the money.

He also said that he didn't know Eric and Dylan were under age, he thought they were in their 20's and that he didn't expect them to become murderers but him and his girlfriend both thought they were strange and had a sneaky sense of humor and wold find things funny that they didn't and would keep to themselves, wouldn't take their sunglasses and coats off. After the massacre Mark had lost interest in guns and wont even watch movies about guns and now he paints and builds model kits that is his big interest.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lol



Posts : 300
Contribution Points : 50047
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-07-26

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:07 am

Mark and Phil served time, while Robyn served no time whatsoever and she bought 3/4 weapons

Great justice system!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
slippy123

avatar

Posts : 507
Contribution Points : 36468
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:48 pm

CharlesWhitman wrote:
Mark Manes did an interview, he said that when he saw the news of the massacre on TV he noticed Eric and Dylan were the same guys that he was doing target practice before a few months prior and since he had sold Dylan his TEC-9 (who was 17) he was panicking that the gun he sold was the one that ended up in the massacre. He also stated that the TEC-9 was his first ever firearm and he had it for many years and he nicknamed it his 'Ghetto gun' and cherished it and was sad when he had to sell it but he needed the money.

He also said that he didn't know Eric and Dylan were under age, he thought they were in their 20's and that he didn't expect them to become murderers but him and his girlfriend both thought they were strange and had a sneaky sense of humor and wold find things funny that they didn't and would keep to themselves, wouldn't take their sunglasses and coats off. After the massacre Mark had lost interest in guns and wont even watch movies about guns and now he paints and builds model kits that is his big interest.


Cool info. Wasn't it Mark that said something along the lines of "this is what happens when highschool kids play with guns", on the RR video? I have a feeling he knew they were underage, but obviously had no cluw what they were going to use the guns for.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mark and Phil served time, while Robyn served no time whatsoever and she bought 3/4 weapons

Great justice system!


I still can't believe that she didn't spend one day behind bars. She's so lucky about that loophole. I was shocked that Phil got so many years as he did.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Draw_It_White

avatar

Posts : 994
Contribution Points : 46311
Forum Reputation : 19
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 34
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:59 pm

I posted a link on a similar thread that had an interview with one of them and his girlfriend since he was released from prison.

Not got the time to find it at minute but it should be here somewhere!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
slippy123

avatar

Posts : 507
Contribution Points : 36468
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:05 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I posted a link on a similar thread that had an interview with one of them and his girlfriend since he was released from prison.

Not got the time to find it at minute but it should be here somewhere!

I'll take a look and try to find that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Draw_It_White

avatar

Posts : 994
Contribution Points : 46311
Forum Reputation : 19
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 34
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:42 pm

Sorry, I've just had a quick look through my old posts and it looks like I haven't posted the link!

It definitely exists somewhere on the web though, I remember watching it and thinking he was quite a tall guy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Draw_It_White

avatar

Posts : 994
Contribution Points : 46311
Forum Reputation : 19
Join date : 2014-01-27
Age : 34
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:53 pm

Has anyone else seen the interview I'm talking about? I've just spent another hour looking for it but I can't find it! Mark looks to have set up his own internet security business this year. Jessica is teaching languages and is still in Littleton.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
slippy123

avatar

Posts : 507
Contribution Points : 36468
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-08-25

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:01 pm

I couldn't find it, what's his business called?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Gonz

avatar

Posts : 104
Contribution Points : 35845
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2015-01-21
Age : 27
Location : Europe

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:03 am

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
Has anyone else seen the interview I'm talking about? I've just spent another hour looking for it but I can't find it! Mark looks to have set up his own internet security business this year. Jessica is teaching languages and is still in Littleton.


Manes: 'I made a bad mistake'
Seller of gun says he had no idea Harris, Klebold dangerous


By Heather Pitzel, Rocky Mountain News
April 19, 2004


Mark Manes stops eating his lunch and tenses up when the waitress interrupts to ask his name and where he went to high school.

Her co-worker might know him, the waitress explains.

He tells her he went to Columbine. As she walks away, Manes and his girlfriend, Jessica Miklich, exchange glances with eyebrows raised.

The co-worker comes over, and, as it turns out, he's an old acquaintance. Manes laughs and relaxes.

But he had good reason to be wary. It isn't the first time someone has recognized him because of his connection to Columbine, and it isn't always so pleasant.

To the public, Manes is the guy who sold one of the guns to the Columbine killers. It will be five years ago Tuesday that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 fellow students and a teacher and wounded 23 others before killing themselves at Columbine High School.

To law enforcement, Manes is an example to deter illegal gun sales. To his lawyer, Manes is a scapegoat because the dead killers couldn't be prosecuted.

To victims' families, Manes is partly responsible for what happened to their loved ones that day.

Manes, now 27, sees himself as a man whose life imploded because of one bad decision.

In one of his few interviews since Columbine, Manes says that he got off track in his teen-age years, doing drugs and getting in trouble with the law. He compiled a lengthy record of offenses from underage drinking to vandalizing bulldozers.

By age 21, he thought his troubled years were behind him. He had gotten off drugs. He had begun working as a software developer and had started dating Miklich, who was 19.

Then he sold Klebold and Harris a TEC-DC9, a semiautomatic handgun, for $500. The two were 17 years old, making the sale illegal.

Manes says that in the first year after the killings, he and Miklich had nightmares about it. He's gone through the puzzle of events piece by piece, trying to see how things could have come together differently.

"If I had really thought about whether he (Klebold) was 18, maybe nothing would've been different," he says, "but it would've been legal."

Manes says he had no idea what the killers intended, and the Jefferson County sheriff's investigation concluded that was true.

Seven months after Columbine, Manes was sentenced to six years in state prison for selling a gun to a minor.

Phil Duran, a friend of Manes' who acted as middleman in the sale, served almost 3 years of a 4 -year sentence on the same charges and was paroled Nov. 8, 2003.

Manes served about 19 months in the Huerfano and Sterling correctional facilities before he was released in June 2001 to a halfway house in Lakewood.

A young couple starting out

Since February 2002, Manes has been allowed to live on his own, but he is required to wear an ankle monitor 24 hours a day, among other restrictions. He has been denied parole three times, but his mandatory release date for parole is in May.

He has returned to computer programming for his former employer, where he says co-workers have been supportive. He lives with 24-year-old Miklich, whom he started dating two months before Columbine.

The inside of their rented white house on a cul-de-sac in Lakewood looks like the home of a couple just starting out: a hand-me-down, avocado-green velveteen chair and a gray couch, a framed collage of family pictures on the wall next to a frameless Kandinsky poster. A pack of Camel Lights lies on the black coffee table.

Miklich is working on her undergraduate degree at Metropolitan State College, hoping to become a literature or history professor someday. As she sits on the couch and talks about the past, her almost constant smile fades.

"Visiting Mark in prison, having to leave him there, was one of the hardest things in life," she says. "When he got out, I had to get to know him again. . . . I was always really proud of Mark and proud to stand by him. I was really depressed for a while. I feel really lucky now; it strengthened our bond."

'Never socially accepted'

Manes, a lanky 6 feet 7 inches tall with long, brown hair pulled back in a ponytail, sits in his living room, trying to calm their dog, Heidi. He speaks slowly in low tones about how he ended up in a courtroom after Columbine.

He grew up in a middle-class home in Littleton with two adopted older brothers who are developmentally disabled. They commanded much of his parents' time. According to the probation department's report to court, Manes, who wasn't adopted, "began to test boundaries at home as a way of gaining attention from his parents."

Eventually he turned to mischief, drugs and the wrong kind of friends.

"I still toss around why I ever went in that direction," Manes says. "I was never socially accepted. . . . I got beat up all the time."

During Manes' freshman year at Columbine, Phil Duran moved in down the street, and they became best friends, except for the period when Manes was doing drugs. Duran didn't approve of that.

By the time Manes met the Columbine killers, he had moved past the drug scene.

A job offer as a software developer had prompted him to quit drugs and make a fresh start. After a two-week family trip to Europe, he had quit Arapahoe Community College, where he carried almost a 3.6 grade point average. He moved in with his parents, broke ties with his former life and started his new job.

His interest in guns, however, had just begun. At the age of 20, he made friends who enjoyed camping and hunting, and that sparked his interest in firearms. Manes bought the TEC-DC9 for $500 at the first gun show he attended in August 1998 and practiced shooting it on camping trips.

Duran, meanwhile, was working with Klebold and Harris at a Blackjack Pizza shop. He introduced them to Manes at a gun show in Denver because they wanted to buy his TEC-DC9.

"At the gun show, I asked Phil if they were cool," Manes says. "They were computer guys like me, and ahead of me at that age."

Manes found a booth with the type of gun he was selling to show the boys what it looked like.

Had the sale not happened, he says, he would have placed an ad in the paper. He considered the gun a piece of junk.

Klebold asked to pay $300 at the time and the rest later. Because customers must be 18 to get into gun shows and Klebold and Harris were high school seniors, Manes says their age didn't cross his mind.

"Dylan came over that night. It's the first time I really talked to him," Manes says. "He was already working with Linux, an advanced computer operating system, and he was in high school. They needed to wait for their next paycheck to give me the other $200. A few weeks went by, and they gave it to Phil."

Manes and his friends regularly went shooting in the woods, so that night he extended an invitation to Klebold for him and Harris to go along. And they did several times over the next few months.

On March 6, 1999, the only time they videotaped themselves shooting guns, Klebold and Harris told Manes they had a surprise. It was the sawed-off shotguns they would use at Columbine.

"Every time we went shooting," Manes says, "we would see three or four other groups doing the same type of thing. It's really not as unusual as it was made out to be."

The videotape shows Klebold and Harris clowning around. At one point, Klebold looks at a bullet hole in a tree trunk and says, "Imagine that in someone's f------ brain."

But Manes says he had no idea that Klebold and Harris were dangerous.

Miklich accompanied Manes on weekly shooting excursions, including the videotaped trip. That was the first time she met the killers.

"I don't want to say they were nondescript," she says. "They were nice enough, but not enough to start a conversation. We had no connection after (shooting in the woods). They seemed a little weird, but they were just boys. I was only two years removed from their age. They seemed like boys playing their war games."

On April 20, 1999, those war games turned into real carnage.

'I just freaked'

Manes says Duran, who was working for a cable company by that time, called him at work from Chicago. Duran had two younger siblings at Columbine: Simon, a sophomore, and Julia, a senior.

"Phil said, 'My sister says she thinks it's Dylan and Eric. Go to -ABCNews.com.' I just freaked," Manes says. "He asked, 'You think they're using your TEC-9?' Why wouldn't they? I was smoking cigarettes frantically."

The day of Columbine was the -second anniversary of the death of one of Miklich's friends in a car accident. Miklich had planned a day of meditation, driving to the mountains and going to the cemetery.

She was driving when she heard on the radio what was going on at the high school. She didn't call Manes until about 7 p.m. because she didn't connect him to Columbine.

"He was completely devastated," she says. "He said, 'I need you. Do you remember those people we went shooting with?' "

He told his parents that day, and they counseled him to get a lawyer.

Within two weeks, authorities with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives contacted Manes. He says he remembers because it was the day he met for a second time with a lawyer.

When the arrest warrant was issued May 3, 1999, Manes turned himself in. His parents bailed him out and helped him dodge the horde of cameras and reporters awaiting him outside the sheriff's department. They dropped him off at a -hotel, he says, where he stayed while media camped in front of his -parents' home for two days.

"From April until November (when he was sentenced), I was the target of everyone's rage," Manes says. "Media coverage was all negative. I was really frustrated."

He felt the public's misperception of him grew and the grieving families' anger was inflamed.

"I definitely have a lot of sympathy for what they're going through. I can't even imagine what it's like," he says. "I have this feeling I'm their enemy."

Miklich says it was difficult to see Manes being vilified by the media and to hear the families' anger directed at him.

"One woman said Mark should be shot in every place her son was shot," Miklich says.

The type of gun Manes sold had been banned from manufacture as an assault weapon in 1994. The gun could be sold at retail stores or in private sales, but couldn't be legally purchased from a firearms dealer by anyone under 21 or from a private seller by anyone under 18.

Manes pleaded guilty in Jefferson County District Court to two felonies - providing a gun to a minor and illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun. The second charge was filed because Manes had fired Klebold's and Harris' sawed-off shotguns in the woods at Rampart Range.

Jefferson County District Judge Henry Nieto sentenced Manes in November 1999 to three years for the possession charge, which ran concurrently with the six-year sentence for selling a gun to a minor.

Manes' attorney, Robert Ransome, maintains that his client was made a scapegoat.

Although Klebold was 17 when he died, Harris had turned 18 on April 9, before Columbine. That meant Harris legally could have bought the guns used at Columbine.

Manes took full responsibility for selling the gun, Ransome says, and didn't waste taxpayer money on a trial that would have prolonged the families' grief.

"Mark took the high road in this case," Ransome says.

A grieving parent's view

Tom Mauser, who lost his son, Daniel, at Columbine and has become a gun-control activist, thought at the time that Manes' sentence was appropriate, though he says he thinks that other victims' families had harsher feelings.

But after seeing the video of Manes and the killers when it was released to the public in October 2003, Mauser says a longer sentence may have been appropriate. The video raised questions for Mauser about whether Manes and Duran, who went shooting three times with the killers, had an inkling that Klebold and Harris were unstable.

"Or did Manes and Duran ignore clues, rationalize them away?" he says.

"Saying 'I'm sorry' at sentencing isn't worth anything," Mauser says. "Who doesn't say they're sorry when their ass is on the line?"

On the third anniversary of Columbine, before seeing the video, Mauser wrote on Daniel's memorial Web site about the need for reconciliation, for the killers' families, victims' families and law enforcement to gather and acknowledge the harm done to one another.

Two years later Mauser still wants a public forum for discussion. He would like to hear from Manes and Duran to help the community learn from what happened.

"Prison is punishment - society's punishment," Mauser says. "Redemption is what you do with your life after prison. They could talk to kids about the dangers of guns."

Manes is under court order not to speak to the victims or their families. Until recently, Ransome had counseled Manes not to speak to the press.

"Mark's very shy and quiet. . . . It's always a risk when a client opens his mouth," Ransome says. "It's the safer route not to talk. He didn't want to, and it wasn't a safe route. Now those decisions are his, not mine."

Manes doesn't see himself going around to schools to talk to kids.

"I wouldn't have had a problem doing community service had it been ordered," he says. "Doing my sentence was a big community service. I taught computer classes to inmates and helped the chaplain. I've never been one for public speaking."

Manes says he meant it when he spoke at his sentencing about how distraught and sorry he was.

"There's not anything I could have said that would have made anybody happy," he says. "It was really hard to get up there. It was honest. Selling the gun was a stupid thing to do."

His sentencing day was probably the worst day of his life, Manes says.

"It was two hours of being blamed for the deaths of all these children, everyone pushing for life sentences or death. It was solely vengeance. It wasn't ever punishment. It was vengeance for their children's deaths. I understand that anger is one of the first stages of grieving. But media involvement really pulled that anger out until someone paid for it."

Judge Nieto, who is now on the Colorado Court of Appeals, declined to be interviewed.

Duran and his attorney, Matt DePetro, also declined interviews.

Until the day before sentencing, Manes says he thought he might not go to prison at all. He hadn't had any legal troubles for two years, and the most recent three were for a -minor possessing alcohol when he was 18, 19 and 20 years old, according to court documents.

Probation officer Marianne Rayburn wrote in her report to the court that psychological testing showed Manes wasn't a threat to society. She recommended probation, but said county jail time and community service were warranted based on the seriousness of the case.

Steve Jensen, who has a reputation as one of Jefferson County's toughest prosecutors, says that Manes' and Duran's sentences were among the most emotional for him in his 19 years as a prosecutor. The sentences were appropriate, he says.

"If we're not going to ask for a tough sentence in this case, I ask you, in what case would we ask for a tough sentence?" Jensen says. "It's difficult to conceive of more terror, more angst, than that caused in this community."

He says he could have asked for as much as 18 years, "but he probably wouldn't have gotten it."

A primary function of a sentence is deterrence, Jensen says, both for the defendant and the public.

Jensen says he wants people to think of Manes and Duran before giving a gun to a juvenile.

"If everyone had said no," Jensen says, "then possibly, possibly, this wouldn't have happened."

The other three guns used by the killers came from Robyn Anderson, who attended Columbine and went to prom with Klebold. She bought one gun for Klebold and two for Harris at a gun show. The transfer of such long-arm guns to juveniles wasn't illegal then, though it is now.

Anderson had no clue that the teens would use the gun for a shooting rampage, says her attorney, Richard Everstine. "No one did."

Richard Weatherbee, law enforcement coordinator for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Denver, says that Manes was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"The two people who should have been prosecuted were dead before we even knew who they were," he says. "It's like, 'OK, who do we go after next?' Maybe that's wrong, but the reality is when you have horrendous crimes like this, people want to see justice done."

Miklich admits that she worried after Columbine that she also might face possession charges because she was in the video shooting the -killers' sawed-off shotguns.

She was given immunity because her testimony would have been needed to authenticate the videotape in case of a trial.

'Guns are too final'

Miklich says she remembers feeling powerful when she shot guns years ago. But now she thinks society would be better off without guns, even for police officers.

"People are too erratic, and guns are too final," she says.

Manes' views on guns have changed, too.

"They did the right thing by upping the age limits on guns, though I wouldn't have thought so at 18," he says. "At 15 you can get prosecuted as an adult for crimes. At 18, you can shoot a gun in the Army, but you can't buy one. They need to pick a number and stick with it, be more consistent."

Manes says he may always be known as that guy from the Columbine case. He hopes not.

He has no plans for the fifth anniversary of Columbine on Tuesday. He and Miklich tend to fill their weekends with the mundane. He cuts the grass, rides his burgundy Yamaha motorcycle. She studies.

He has a 10 p.m. curfew and cannot drink alcohol or have credit cards, a cell phone or a checking account.

He pays his bills with money -orders.

His interest in guns has been replaced with a passion for model airplanes and helicopters, which he sometimes flies in the house. When he was first released, he preferred staying at home.

"I felt like I'd be recognized wherever I went. One of the most awkward situations was while I was getting insurance. There was a TV on in the background with a story about me getting out. The woman was rude after that," Manes says.

"At some points, I've broken down crying," Manes says, "but there was really no way I could've known. . . . I made a bad mistake in selling a gun."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
CharlesWhitman wrote:
Mark Manes did an interview, he said that when he saw the news of the massacre on TV he noticed Eric and Dylan were the same guys that he was doing target practice before a few months prior and since he had sold Dylan his TEC-9 (who was 17) he was panicking that the gun he sold was the one that ended up in the massacre. He also stated that the TEC-9 was his first ever firearm and he had it for many years and he nicknamed it his 'Ghetto gun' and cherished it and was sad when he had to sell it but he needed the money.

He also said that he didn't know Eric and Dylan were under age, he thought they were in their 20's and that he didn't expect them to become murderers but him and his girlfriend both thought they were strange and had a sneaky sense of humor and wold find things funny that they didn't and would keep to themselves, wouldn't take their sunglasses and coats off. After the massacre Mark had lost interest in guns and wont even watch movies about guns and now he paints and builds model kits that is his big interest.


Cool info. Wasn't it Mark that said something along the lines of "this is what happens when highschool kids play with guns", on the RR video? I have a feeling he knew they were underage, but obviously had no cluw what they were going to use the guns for.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Mark and Phil served time, while Robyn served no time whatsoever and she bought 3/4 weapons

Great justice system!


I still can't believe that she didn't spend one day behind bars. She's so lucky about that loophole. I was shocked that Phil got so many years as he did.


Sorry! old post but I was looking for info on them and yes either Mark or Philip mentions E and D being in high school in Rampart Range.

Did they know each other from Blackjack?
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:46 pm

I watched Rampart Range again and I can't help but think of how many red flags those two missed about Eric and Dylan. First off the sawed off shotguns, Mark and Phil were older and had more experience with guns, they clearly knew it was illegal and dangerous. Also the camera was on Dylan as he loaded the shotgun into his stomach. You'd think at least Eric would have yelled at him. Maybe he did off camera?

Maybe my friends were all annoyingly overprotective of each other growing up but those 2 were over 21 and had worries. What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun... I think Robyn got off WAY too easy as well. I'm not sure what they could have done besides not selling Dylan the gun.

_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sorry!  old post but I was looking for info on them and yes either Mark or Philip mentions E and D being in high school in Rampart Range.

Did they know each other from Blackjack?


Phil worked at Blackjacks. That is how he knew E&D, he introduced them to Mark.

_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin


Last edited by ShadowedGoddess on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Sorry!  old post but I was looking for info on them and yes either Mark or Philip mentions E and D being in high school in Rampart Range.

Did they know each other from Blackjack?

Phil worked at Blackjacks. That is how he knew E&D, he introduced them to Mark. [/quote]

Thank you SG!
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
W.A.R.
Top Contributor
avatar

Posts : 439
Contribution Points : 19583
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2017-03-11

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:04 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun...

To put it frank: They weren't  Haha

_________________
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:08 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun...

To put it frank: They weren't  Haha


Agreed.

Sadly hindsight is always 20/20.

_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:21 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun...

To put it frank: They weren't  Haha


Agreed.  

Sadly hindsight is always 20/20.  

No they were not thinking, I really hope at least one of them said "Hey Dylan, first rule of gun safety, don't point it at your stomach." Dylan's lack of gun safety could have stopped Columbine at least two times.

The gun culture is interesting though. Do you recall the interview with Nate when he said he was worried about Dylan hanging out with Mark Manes because he was a drug dealer and Nate demanded to know what was going on and he was like "Dylan are you doing drugs????" and Dylan said "No, I'm getting a gun" (paraphrasing) and Nate was fine with it, however if Dylan was buying pot it would have been the end of the damn world.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun...

To put it frank: They weren't  Haha


Agreed.  

Sadly hindsight is always 20/20.  

No they were not thinking, I really hope at least one of them said "Hey Dylan, first rule of gun safety, don't point it at your stomach." Dylan's lack of gun safety could have stopped Columbine at least two times.


I know we have discussed this more then once, but it literally KILLS me watching them handling their guns. My dad and uncles would have disowned me if I had ever treated a gun so carelessly. Haha



_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:40 pm

i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.
Back to top Go down
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:42 pm

eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.


Completely agree. They were used as whipping boys because E&D were dead and beyond all punishment.

_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:43 pm

@ShadowedGoddess wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.


Completely agree. They were used as whipping boys because E&D were dead and beyond all punishment.

lol the gun dealer literally said that you could saw the barrel off lol charged with POSSESION for firing it
Back to top Go down
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:45 pm

eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.


They likely knew that E&D were underage, yet I don't think Mark or Phil had any idea what they were planning on doing with them.

_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What were they thinking, selling Dylan a gun...

To put it frank: They weren't  Haha


Agreed.  

Sadly hindsight is always 20/20.  

No they were not thinking, I really hope at least one of them said "Hey Dylan, first rule of gun safety, don't point it at your stomach." Dylan's lack of gun safety could have stopped Columbine at least two times.


I know we have discussed this more then once, but it literally KILLS me watching them handling their guns. My dad and uncles would have disowned me if I had ever treated a gun so carelessly.   Haha



I have never handled a gun and I'm even watching them and shaking my head.

They clearly were like "Do you remember that scene in that movie where the dude shoots the guy, he held it like this! Do I look bad ass? Ok this is how you hold a gun, pew, pew,pew"
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:01 pm

@ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Screamingophelia wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.


They likely knew that E&D were underage, yet I don't think Mark or Phil had any idea what they were planning on doing with them.

they probably thought they were 18. they knew they were seniors and the boys couldve easily lied.
Back to top Go down
Screamingophelia
Miscellaneous Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4490
Contribution Points : 77486
Forum Reputation : 103
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 37

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.



They likely knew that E&D were underage, yet I don't think Mark or Phil had any idea what they were planning on doing with them.


I don't think they did either, though Robyn asking them "are you going to shoot people with those?" isn't a comforting question either... jokes sometimes have a little truth in them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 6231
Contribution Points : 77395
Forum Reputation : 54
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:03 pm

eldigato wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.


They likely knew that E&D were underage, yet I don't think Mark or Phil had any idea what they were planning on doing with them.

they probably thought they were 18. they knew they were seniors and the boys couldve easily lied.

Phil worked with E&D, he probably knew their ages.


_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:04 pm

@ShadowedGoddess wrote:
eldigato wrote:
@ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Screamingophelia wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i kinda feel bad for mark and phil. i doubt they knew they were minors. they really were scapegoats but mark see,s to be moving on.

I think they were scapegoats too but they knew E and D were younger because Mark said in the RR video "this is what happens you let high school kids play with guns" and Eric laughs. Eric was just shy of his 18th birthday when this was filmed and Dylan was only 17.


They likely knew that E&D were underage, yet I don't think Mark or Phil had any idea what they were planning on doing with them.

they probably thought they were 18. they knew they were seniors and the boys couldve easily lied.

Phil worked with E&D, he probably knew their ages.


maybe phil didnt tell mark

or they knew they would be 18 soon a d thought theyd just keep the guns and not kill people
Back to top Go down
Ainjel

avatar

Posts : 90
Contribution Points : 16808
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2017-03-30

PostSubject: Re: Mark Manes and Phil Duran    Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:12 pm

So I get the whole selling the gun to Dylan thing but illegal possession of a sawed off shot gun...  I mean come on.  That’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think?  I mean if they were going to go that route why didn’t they prosecute Wayne Harris for possession of a pipe bomb?  No he didn’t have it at the time of the massacre but neither did Mark Manes have the shotgun.  There is so much hypocrisy in this case.  

And I’m sorry if they are going to charge Mark Manes, Robyn should have some type of punishment as well.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Mark Manes and Phil Duran
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Cutie Mark Tales...
» Black mark
» Favorite Cutie Mark Crusader?
» Cutie mark Creator help
» Mark of Lilith

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: