Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 The Ketchup Incident

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:47 am

I didn't know if I could find this in the 11k, but I was curious where the Ketchup incident falls in the timeline relating to NBK. I am referring to the event in the cafeteria where Eric and Dylan either had ketchup squirted on them, or had ketchup coated tampons tossed at them. There seems to be two versions of the story. But, I was curious if it happened before the van break in.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:50 pm

There is no solid evidence that it happened in January of 1998.

The only eyewitness account of this incident is from Chad Laughlin, who only told Alan Predergast that it happened junior year. Laughlin says he "caught the tail end of it" and did not see the whole thing. According to Laughlin it was just Dylan, not Eric, and it was ketchup-covered tampons.

Brooks Brown later stated that this incident happened in January. He says it is both Dylan and Eric, but he does not say he saw it, just that it happened. He says it was packets.

Later Susan Klebold repeated it to Andrew Solomon, using Brooks Brown's story that it was both Dylan and Eric, but she does not give a date. She says it was packets.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:06 pm

Got it. I'm trying to form a timeline of traumatic events that might have happened to one or both of them from junior to senior year. The ketchup thing struck me as one of the big ones.

Was this event at the hand of Rocky and his crew? It makes me wonder if they did other similar things to other students. I recall the baby oil stunt that Brooks mentions. They all seem to be in the same vein.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
queenfarooq



Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Got it. I'm trying to form a timeline of traumatic events that might have happened to one or both of them from junior to senior year.

You may have already seen this list but this is very informative and may assist you with making such a list:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
queenfarooq



Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:39 pm

RE The Ketchup Incident:

From Far From The Tree
Quote :
Unbeknownst to the Klebolds, Dylan had experienced significant humiliation at school, though he was six feet four and not easy to push around. He had come home one day with ketchup spots all over his shirt, and when his mother asked what had happened, he said he’d had the worst day of his life and didn’t want to talk about it. Months after his death, she learned of an incident in which Dylan and Eric had apparently been shoved and squirted with ketchup by kids calling them fags. “It hurt so much that I’d seen the remnants of that day and hadn’t helped him,” she said.

From here:http://www.westword.com/news/the-missing-motive-5063685
Quote :
Brown believes that the "January incident" was one of two events at Columbine that month rather than the van break-in. The first was an unfounded accusation that Harris and Klebold had brought marijuana to school, prompting a search of their property that enraged them. The second was even more humiliating, exactly the kind of thing that would focus their hatred on the "commons," the school cafeteria.

"People surrounded them in the commons and squirted ketchup packets all over them, laughing at them, calling them faggots," Brown says. "That happened while teachers watched. They couldn't fight back. They wore the ketchup all day and went home covered with it."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan



Posts : 2948
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:07 pm

Sometime in 1998 I think. Probably just before the end of 11th grade.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Archvile

avatar

Posts : 211
Join date : 2015-08-21
Age : 26
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:50 pm

In my opinion, the ketchup squirting was Eric and Dylan and the tampon one was another incident all together when Dylan went home early and cried and only Dylan was the target. It seems to be quite a common thing these jocks did to people. I am guessing it started as a food fight where someone through food at Dylan and he retaliated and it escalated, I guess that is why he wanted war with the commons and in the Eric in the cafeteria video, Dylan would be up in the class room for the lunch period refusing to go to the cafeteria.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:09 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Got it. I'm trying to form a timeline of traumatic events that might have happened to one or both of them from junior to senior year.

You may have already seen this list but this is very informative and may assist you with making such a list:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I skimmed it awhile back, but giving it a closer look shows alot more detail. thanks for the reminder : )
Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:12 pm

I never realized that they could be separate events. I always thought that it was one event where the ketchup packets were exchanged for tampons.

That does explain why you don't see Dylan in the cafeteria video.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LPorter101
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 1892
Join date : 2013-12-01

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:53 pm

Didn't the jocks put ketchup on the tampons and say, "You faggots are having your periods"?

I thought I read that somewhere. Maybe not.

_________________
Why does anyone do anything?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
queenfarooq



Posts : 930
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:34 pm

Comment from Chad Laughlin where he references the incident:
Quote :
"A lot of the tension in the school came from the class above us," Laughlin insists. "There were people fearful of walking by a table where you knew you didn't belong, stuff like that. Certain groups certainly got preferential treatment across the board. I caught the tail end of one really horrible incident, and I know Dylan told his mother that it was the worst day of his life."
That incident, according to Laughlin, involved seniors pelting Klebold with "ketchup-covered tampons" in the commons.
From:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:52 am

It's funny how all of this gets revised by Dave Cullen. The testimony is right there! I'm disliking his book more and more everyday...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Archvile

avatar

Posts : 211
Join date : 2015-08-21
Age : 26
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:29 pm

another student talked about a cup of fecal matter (probably from an animal) thrown at either Eric and Dylan or members of the TCM in the school too which has never been picked up on, you've probably all seen the documentary 'Finding out Why' already where he talks about it, and I doubt he would lie to the FBI and detectives. My guess is this happened off campus, and whoever the victim was was probably too humiliated to come forward about it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:33 pm

The guy who owned Blackjack mentioned something to that extent, that the kids who Eric and Dylan hung out with were always getting stuff thrown at them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It's funny how all of this gets revised by Dave Cullen. The testimony is right there! I'm disliking his book more and more everyday...

There really is no testimony though. Chad Laughlin says he only "caught the tail end" of an incident involving Dylan and ketchup, but there are no eye-witnesses of anyone throwing ketchup at Dylan and Eric in the commons in January 1998 (Brooks Brown was not an eye-witness). If it was really that dramatic one of the other hundreds of people interviewed about E&D would've told Jeff Co. about it.

But people have taken Chad Laughlin's simple statement and turned it into all kinds of things. They say that Rocky Hoffschneider did it (there is no evidence of that). That people called Eric and Dylan fags while doing it (no evidence of that). That Dylan came home and started crying on his bed (this is a separate story told by his mom about when he was in middle school).

Now people are saying that the reason Dylan was upstairs in the Eric in the cafeteria video is because he was scared to go in the commons! Dylan was in class at the time.

There is no evidence of a ketchup incident involving Dylan and Eric in January 1998.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
PaintItBlack
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 1741
Join date : 2014-02-11
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:25 pm

Dylan's Mother has come out and said that she saw Dylan come home once with Ketchup on his clothes.
Unless, you believe she is not being truthful, that seems to me to be a confirmation that this incident really occurred.

_________________
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski
Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:57 am

That is true, that she observed him with ketchup on his clothing after the altercation. However, I think lasttrain is referring to a different incident in middle school, where Dylan came home very upset and cried on his bed surrounded by stuffed animals.

I just realized it's hard to hate killers when they're so human...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Dylan's Mother has come out and said that she saw Dylan come home once with Ketchup on his clothes.
Unless, you believe she is not being truthful, that seems to me to be a confirmation that this incident really occurred.

Susan Klebold said she saw Dylan come home with ketchup on his shirt one day.

But that does not prove that Eric and Dylan got ketchup thrown at them, or that it was "the January incident" referred to in their journals, or that this incident inspired the shooting.

This is a great example of people taking one piece of testimony and blowing up into a whole story that is supposed to be fact.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
PaintItBlack
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 1741
Join date : 2014-02-11
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I suppose that you have somewhat of a point in that there is no absolute, irrefutable proof that this incident occurred but under the circumstances there's not going to be.
Eric and Dylan didn't have a camera everyday at school, and even if they had one that day, it is doubtful they would have filmed such a humiliating incident.
I feel that the testimony of both Chad Laughlin and Sue Klebold provides an adequate base of belief for this having occurred.

_________________
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I suppose that you have somewhat of a point in that there is no absolute, irrefutable proof that this incident occurred but under the circumstances there's not going to be.
Eric and Dylan didn't have a camera everyday at school, and even if they had one that day, it is doubtful they would have filmed such a humiliating incident.
I feel that the testimony of both Chad Laughlin and Sue Klebold provides an adequate base of belief for this having occurred.

I believe that someone threw ketchup on Dylan at some point--but I think that is a long way from people surrounding Dylan and Eric and throwing ketchup on the two of them in the cafeteria in 1998. It's a long way from showing that this incident inspired them to want to kill everyone in the school.

I think the January incident was the arrest.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Archvile

avatar

Posts : 211
Join date : 2015-08-21
Age : 26
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I think the January incident was the arrest.
and 'Revenge in the commons' is what Dylan write, probably meaning revenge in the cafeteria, where incidents like these happened, it shows it was probably on more than one occasion, I doubt he'd want revenge if it was just one incident, it's also why he was so eager to blow it up, even after all the people had fled, because that room was where he has bad memories.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:15 pm

CharlesWhitman wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I think the January incident was the arrest.
and 'Revenge in the commons' is what Dylan write, probably meaning revenge in the cafeteria, where incidents like these happened, it shows it was probably on more than one occasion, I doubt he'd want revenge if it was just one incident, it's also why he was so eager to blow it up, even after all the people had fled, because that room was where he has bad memories.

It is clear from the wording that the revenge in the commons is separate from the January incident.

killing enemies, blowing up stuff, killing cops!! My wrath for January's incident will be godlike. Not to mention our revenge in the commons

Back to top Go down
View user profile
radaddio



Posts : 360
Join date : 2015-04-08
Age : 97
Location : Cali.

PostSubject: Re: The Ketchup Incident   Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:40 pm

In the way it's worded, it does seem like two separate incidents.

I agree also, that there were likely numerous instances where things like this happened to either Eric and Dylan, or their other TCM cohorts. The recollection of witnesses probably only caught a couple of the instances where humiliating things happened to them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
The Ketchup Incident
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Documents, evidence, and videos-
Jump to: