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 If you could experience the memories of someone that day

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ldg1414

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PostSubject: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:41 pm

Would you? And who would it be and why? Only the memories on the day of NBK are available to access. Keep in mind that having the shooter's memories would entail memories of brutally shooting and killing people, and the victims memories are probably just as bad.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:00 am

John Savage.

Because he was the only one in the library that they let go. I'm sure anyone who was
there and experienced the shooting has horrific memories of that day, but I think his
point of view would have been interesting to experience.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:46 am

For me it would be Brooks Brown. That way I could let everyone know if he really ran into Eric that morning and if Eric really let him go.

I bet he didn't even talk to him. Sure, he could have seen him pull up as he was walking home for his lunch break, but actually talked to Eric and Eric saying 'I like you now. Go home'. Yea, OK.

Something Brooks said in Zero Hour doesn't add up. He said he got done his class and went outside to 'have a smoke' and that he just 'walked around'. Then Eric pulled up, and apparently, he went up to Eric and 'cursed him out' and then Eric told him to 'go home'.

If it was Brooks' lunch break and he was gonna go home, why didn't he just smoke the cigarette on the walk home? Why did he 'walk around' outside the school and then after the cigarette, walk home? Makes no sense. If I were a smoker and I had a certain amount of time to smoke my cigarette and walk home to have lunch, I'd be smoking the cigarette as I walked home. (I'm not a smoker and we weren't even allowed to leave the cafeteria let alone the school for our 18 minute lunch break when I went to high school).

I take everything Brooks says with a grain of salt because he lies and has admitted to lying. I doubt he even talked to Eric just like I doubt Dylan ran up to him and gave him Eric's website. I think Brooks' brother, Aaron, showed him the website.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I take everything Brooks says with a grain of salt because he lies and has admitted to lying. I doubt he even talked to Eric just like I doubt Dylan ran up to him and gave him Eric's website. I think Brooks' brother, Aaron, showed him the website.

Yeah this is a qoute from Brooks book "No Easy Answers".

"I went through a period of trying to be what I thought other people wanted me to be - a person they would like and accept. I started bragging about myself, making up whatever I thought might make people like me. I'd tell people I had tested with a really high IQ, or I'd lie about how many miles per hour my fastball was. It was a stupid thing to do, but when you want friends, sometimes you try to paint yourself as someone other than who you really are. You watch what other people are doing, you figure out what's “cool,” and you adapt accordingly."
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I take everything Brooks says with a grain of salt because he lies and has admitted to lying. I doubt he even talked to Eric just like I doubt Dylan ran up to him and gave him Eric's website. I think Brooks' brother, Aaron, showed him the website.

Yeah this is a qoute from Brooks book "No Easy Answers".

"I went through a period of trying to be what I thought other people wanted me to be - a person they would like and accept. I started bragging about myself, making up whatever I thought might make people like me. I'd tell people I had tested with a really high IQ, or I'd lie about how many miles per hour my fastball was. It was a stupid thing to do, but when you want friends, sometimes you try to paint yourself as someone other than who you really are. You watch what other people are doing, you figure out what's “cool,” and you adapt accordingly."
Yea, he pretty much had no choice but to come clean about that stuff. Eric had already called him out on being a liar. All the things he admitted to are the things Eric wrote in his blog about Brooks.

I still have my doubts about this guy. Unless some other witnesses come forward and say they actually saw Brooks talking to Eric, then I don't believe it actually happened. I think he saw Eric pulling up in his car while he was leaving the school parking lot to go home. That's what I think actually happened.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yea, he pretty much had no choice but to come clean about that stuff. Eric had already called him out on being a liar. All the things he admitted to are the things Eric wrote in his blog about Brooks.

I still have my doubts about this guy. Unless some other witnesses come forward and say they actually saw Brooks talking to Eric, then I don't believe it actually happened. I think he saw Eric pulling up in his car while he was leaving the school parking lot to go home. That's what I think actually happened.
I personally don't believe Brooks is telling the whole truth to the exchange. I've always believed that Brooks got a glimpse (intentionally or not) of Eric's weapons and/or bombs, and hightailed it out of there. He likely changed his story to prevent the possibility of being charged later on.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:47 pm

I agree that Brooks Brown isn’t the most dependable, but why would he lie about meeting Eric before the massacre began, the day after (Apr. 21) when he shows up devastated doing a TV interview with NBC? And then lie again to the police? He was 18 years old at the time, if the police has talks with him and something this big, I think he would be too scared to lie. I see a lot of other doubts in his story (I’ve read his book) but that still doesn’t mean this didn’t happened? If he’s that good of an actor, he should get an Oscar, I personally believe.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:49 pm

I also find Brooks Brown hard to believe in general, because he is widely known as a compulsive liar to some extent. Even Wayne Harris wrote down in his journal that Brooks is "a con artist".

So I have also wondered if that famous conversation ever happened.

The conversation doesn't seem logical... Why would Eric suddenly say "I like you now"? Why would Brooks actually walk home just because Eric told him to "go home"? Why didn't Brooks ask why he should go home?

(Do we have information on how Brooks got to school that morning? I know he usually drove, because he used to give Eric rides to school. But I know he also lived nearby.)

Then again, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think it was Brooks who was the first to call the police to give them Eric's name as a suspect. And he told them about his conversation with Eric at that time, too. I can't believe he would make it up and pass it to police at that point - right after it happened and under such a panic and stress.

Why would Brooks make it up? To get attention?

I tend to believe that the conversation happened, but not quite like Brooks told it. Maybe Brooks realized that Eric was going to do something bad, and Brooks - as he hated CHS - wanted it to happen.

And that is why he walked away from the scene.

But then again, what fights against this theory is that Brooks knew his brother Aaron was in the school. I can't imagine Brooks would let Eric harm his brother.

So in the end, I'm puzzled. But I can't believe Brooks didn't ask why when Eric told him to leave. Brooks would have been too curious to know.

Brooks' explanation in his book for why he left was that Eric had a serious face and Brooks thought he was probably going to set off a pipe bomb in the parking lot, etc. He wanted to get out of the way.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:45 pm

On 9086 there is some discrepancy as to what Brown actually told the police.

Inv. Muse reported that Brooks told him "he had seen Eric Harris in the corridor of CHS, carrying a duffel bag, which had an odd shape to it." In other interviews with Holstiaw and Estep and then Holstlaw and Clyman Brooks said the encounter happened in the junior parking lot and that Eric merely set the bag on the ground. However, the only interview I can find in the 11k with Brooks is conducted by Inv. Griffith on 10670:

At approximately 11:10 a.m. BROWN left the school walking out the door just to the south of the main entrance smoking a cigarette and walked down to Pierce Street. As he reached Pierce Street he observed, HARRIS pulling into the student parking lot and park his car in the lot. However, he did not park the car in his assigned space. BROWN advised he was operating a 1980's year, two-door, gray or blue vehicle, perhaps a Honda or Nissan. As soon as HARRIS parks his vehicle, BROWN meets him at the vehicle. HARRIS is wearing a white tee shirt, biack pants and sunglasses. BROWN notices a light blue gym bag with gray handles sitting in the parking lot next to HARRIS'S vehicle. The bag is approximately 24" in length and 18" in height and approximately 12" in width. BROWN cannot see inside the bag and doesn't know what it contained. He also related HARRIS was pulling one or two additional gym bags from the back seat of his vehicle into the front seat. HARRIS attends third and fourth periods with BROWN and BROWN made the comment that "you missed the test." HARRIS replied, "it doesn't matter now." HARRIS tells BROWN, " BROOKS, I like you now, get out of here and go home; now!" BROWN walked from HARRIS'S vehicle to Pierce Street, thinking about what HARRIS said. At that point he hears a loud bang and an explosion. BROWN runs down West Fair Drive knocking on doors for assistance.


To give some added perspective, while he was wandering around, Brooks Brown ran into a social studies teacher, Rick Bath, and a psychology teacher, Thomas Johnson, on a side street near the school.  They are the first to hear the story.

[Bath] advised on one of the side streets he observed a student known to him as well as Mr. Johnson as Brooks Brown. Brooks had motioned them over, and they asked Brooks, "Do you know what's going on?" Brooks made the statement that he observed Eric Harris carrying a duffel bag in the parking lot. Brooks was confronted by Eric in the parking lot and made the statement something to the effect, "I like you, get out of here." (6100)

Johnson tells much the same story on 006688.

Brooks's telephone call is on 10661, and is the first time he tells it to LE:

Brown advised that after 4th hour class (approximately 1110 hrs) Brown went outside to have a cigarette. Brown was at the main entrance near the cafeteria. Harris drove up in Harris's vehicle and exited the car. Harris was alone and was carrying a light blue gym bag. Harris said to Brown, "Brooks I like you get out of here".
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


(Do we have information on how Brooks got to school that morning? I know he usually drove, because he used to give Eric rides to school. But I know he also lived nearby.)


He drove himself.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:10 pm

Weird. Why would you drive up to the school and then leave walking?

One point, however: When Brooks first told the story of the conversation with Eric, he couldn't have known that Eric would end up dead. So for Brooks there was a fine chance that - if he made it up - Eric would tell what they really said to each other.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Weird. Why would you drive up to the school and then leave walking?

One point, however: When Brooks first told the story of the conversation with Eric, he couldn't have known that Eric would end up dead. So for Brooks there was a fine chance that - if he made it up - Eric would tell what they really said to each other.

I believe his brother Aaron drove him to school that day. Aaron mentions in his interview that he got into his car and drove to a nearby elementary school with friends after the shooting had started pg(2539).
In Brooks' statement it says he departed home and drove to school with his brother Aaron  on 4/20 pg(10670). So I guess they took Aarons car.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Weird. Why would you drive up to the school and then leave walking?

One point, however: When Brooks first told the story of the conversation with Eric, he couldn't have known that Eric would end up dead. So for Brooks there was a fine chance that - if he made it up - Eric would tell what they really said to each other.

I believe his brother Aaron drove him to school that day. Aaron mentions in his interview that he got into his car and drove to a nearby elementary school with friends after the shooting had started pg(2539).
In Brooks' statement it says he departed home and drove to school with his brother Aaron  on 4/20 pg(10670). So I guess they took Aarons car.

You are right. It says he "rode" to school with Aaron in "his" car.  It's not clear if the "his" is Brooks's or Aaron's but it appears that Aaron drove.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Weird. Why would you drive up to the school and then leave walking?


The whole thing is unclear.  I know he says in his book that he "was already thinking about going home after [his] fourth period class," but the Brown household was located at 8003 South Vance Street, which is about 2.5 miles away, almost an hour walk. After the conversation with Eric, Brooks describes himself as undecided about whether he wants to go home.

What was Brooks doing when he saw Eric? There is a discrepancy between the account he gave Investigator Griffith and the one in the book.  In the book, he says "Eric suddenly pull[e]d into parking lot right in front me."

However, he tells Griffith that "[a]t approximately 11:10 a.m. [he] left the school . . . and walked down to Pierce Street. As he reached Pierce Street he observed, HARRIS pulling into the student parking lot" (10670). So in this account, Brown has already reached Pierce Street before he sees Eric arrive and then he walks back to the junior lot just in time to meet him. I would say that Pierce Street is a hundred yards from Eric's parking space, so that means Brooks would've walked a good bit to get back.

It is worth pointing out that Pierce Street was the direction home. So, what Brown told Griffith is consistent with going home, but it was also consistent with going to the Dutch Creek Trail underpass, a smokers' hangout
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:03 am

The chronology of Brooks's movements after the conversation with Eric is possible to track on a map.

He got out of class at around 11:10, and either stood on the sidewalk or walked down and back from Pierce St. That places Eric's arrival at around 11:12 or 11:13, maybe 11:14. Their conversation was probably not more than a minute. The cafeteria tape ends at 11:14:50 and Eric has not gone in yet. I would estimate that Brooks left at 11:13 or 11:14. Matthew Houk left the parking lot at 11:12 or 11:13 and saw Brooks walking south after he pulled out (6636).

Brooks says he was standing across the street from a block of housing construction when he heard the first shot. He must be referring to the homes on W Caley Place, which are listed as having been built in 2000. This location is a 3 minute walk from where Eric was parked. So Brooks is placing the start of the shooting a minute or two earlier than the report does, either that or he left the lot at closer to 11:15.

At this point he says he began to run, until he reached a green generator. The only green generator is behind a house on the 6400 block of S Pierce Ct. This is a 2 minute walk past the housing construction site, but he says he was running.

Then he moves to the Dutch Creek Trail underpass, another 3 minutes, where he hears police cars moving overhead. Dispatch is 11:25, and Brooks probably hears the cars around 11:27 or 11:28, so he stayed in the overpass for a couple minutes.

At this point he runs west across a field to "the first house [he] saw," finds no answer, but then runs into Mrs. Taylor at a house on the 6500 block of S Teller Court. He describes it as the third house where he knocks on the door, but he would have had to pass 5 houses to get to Mrs. Taylor's. Mrs. Taylor says this happened at around 11:45, but it is probably closer to 11:40.

Here things get a little strange. He calls his dad and tells him to pick him up on Upham. Taking Pierce Street to Upham is a 30 minute walk, but Brooks sets out.

At this point he runs into Mr. Johnson and Mr. Bath.  They only tell investigators its "on one of the side streets," and it may've been Euclid, S Teller, or maybe Yukon, because Bath says he took Pierce as far as Coal Mine Ave. before being blocked.  However, the blockade was actually at Walker, so I think they are mistaken.  Brooks was moving south on Teller or east on Hoover back toward Pierce, and they probably saw him on one of those streets, most likely Teller, which would've been right after he left Mrs. Taylor's house.

Eastward movement is corroborated by Ryan Shwayder (7129-7132), the next person Brooks saw, who told law enforcement he saw Brooks standing on Hoover Avenue east of the intersection between Hoover and Parkview (which is actually called Teller there but it quickly turns into Parkview). Along with Matthew Houk and Deanna Shaffer, Shwayder says they drove to a cul-de-sac that gave them a view of Clement Park, which could've been Weaver Pl, Walker Pl, or the ones off Polk. At 11:52 and 11:56 Brooks calls the police.  Strangely, Shwayder testifies that Brooks called his dad (7131), presumably to arrange a new meeting spot, but that call does not appear on the phone records (7134). It makes sense that this call was placed, because Randy Brown met them far from Upham Street. Deanna Shaffer says she doesn't recall it being placed (7161). At this point they move south, Randy Brown arrives, and Brooks drives Shwayder's vehicle to his own house. Brooks's house was about a half a mile from Eric's.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:12 am

Wow, excellent post Lasttrain!


Brooks also mentioned lying about agent Dwayne Fuselier's son making a video for the school blowing up for video production class. HE claimed to do it to cover the for the FBI agent, but it only caused a rift between them.

I've always thought that was a weird thing to lie about. If his dad was an FBI agent, nobody would care that his son made a video like that.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:02 pm

The one thing in the timeline that is hard to estimate is the time the shooting started.

Brooks says he talked to Eric shortly after 11:10, the conversation didn't last more than a minute, and then he walked south on Pierce and heard shooting as he reached W Caley Place.

However, the walk from Eric's car to W Caley Place is only 3 minutes, so either that puts the start of the shooting earlier than the official estimate of 11:19, or it means that Brooks took about nine minutes smoking, talking to Eric, walking away, etc.

Another thing that is uncomfortable about this timeline is that if Brooks walked immediately down Pierce after talking to Eric, then Eric took in the bombs, came back, waited, gave up, met Dylan at the hill, then started shooting--all in the 3 minutes it took Brooks to leave Eric and reach W Caley. But we know Eric didn't enter the commons before 11:14:50.

Which leads to an interesting question.

I have always wondered whether Brooks looked back at Eric.  If someone is behaving strangely and orders you away, possibly to pursue some mischief, wouldn't you look back from afar to see what they were up to? Is it possible Brooks watched Eric for a while, and saw something?  Has he ever said he looked back? Because of the angle, he would have had a direct view of Eric's car as he turned right on Pierce. Him watching Eric or otherwise investigating would account for the extra time.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:23 pm

It's possible he did see something. I found it odd that all of the gear never raised any questions with Brooks. If I went over to address someone I know, even just as an acquaintance, I would still get a glance in their trunk or the back seat of their car just out of human curiosity. There's no easy way to hide two long guns, fuel bombs, and the other misc stuff they had that day.

It's possible he saw more, and then was coached to say differently to avoid being a suspect.

My theory is that Brooks might have made the whole interaction up, and it just blew up in his face. I can't say for sure, but it would make all of the timelines tidier if he had fabricated the event. I don't like to make accusations or vilify people without cause, but he was a suspected co-conspirator for a while. I think if he fibbed the encounter for attention, he would have to keep with the story up once the investigation got more in depth.

Lastly, there are a few different instances of Brooks posting on sites recently for the sake of attention. He did a Reddit AMA, and he posts on facebook. I would love for him to give a more recent recollection of the events that day. He is obviously willing to do so of his own accord.

...can anyone get in contact with him? We have Amanda Stair here already. It would be great to have Brooks here as a poster as well.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:59 am

Brooks seems to have these spells where he says he's given up talking about Columbine. He can go years without doing so but usually he comes back.

I could ask but wouldn't hold your breath. Plus, I guess if I was him I'd not be inclined to come on here just to defend what I said I saw when people are calling me out as a bull shitter (note - I too think he's not telling the the whole truth).
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:31 am

yes, brooks give up Columbine. I wrote him once and he didn´t answer. I think it has to do with the tumblr trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:38 am

I asked Brooks a question once. I asked him if he missed Dylan and his response was 'I have complex feelings about Dylan'.

Brooks wouldn't wanna post on this site. Most people here don't really have a lot of nice things to say about him especially after that whole sexcapade thing that happened with him and that 15 year old girl a few years back on Tumblr. If I were him, I'd be too embarrassed to show up on any Columbine related sites.

And not just that but a lot of people think he is a liar and bullshit artist, so there's that too.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:30 pm

I used to talk to him on AOL Instant Messenger all the time. This was in 2001, 2002. He talked freely about everything.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I used to talk to him on AOL Instant Messenger all the time.  This was in 2001, 2002.  He talked freely about everything.

Can you please tell us some interesting things he might have said? Some things most people don't know or just anything really.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I used to talk to him on AOL Instant Messenger all the time.  This was in 2001, 2002.  He talked freely about everything.

Can you please tell us some interesting things he might have said? Some things most people don't know or just anything really.

I think I saved the transcripts on my gf's old computer, and I will try and see if I can find them. I did not interrogate him about the morning of the 20th. My main overall memory is that he was having a hard time getting on in life, because his name had been so tarnished in Littleton but he wasn't sure where to go.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I used to talk to him on AOL Instant Messenger all the time.  This was in 2001, 2002.  He talked freely about everything.

Can you please tell us some interesting things he might have said? Some things most people don't know or just anything really.

I think I saved the transcripts on my gf's old computer, and I will try and see if I can find them. I did not interrogate him about the morning of the 20th.  My main overall memory is that he was having a hard time getting on in life, because his name had been so tarnished in Littleton but he wasn't sure where to go.

Would be interesting to see Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:22 pm

In 1999 and 2000 I used to go onto the AOL Instant Messenger database and search for ages 16-20 with Littleton, CO as the location.

I found all kinds of Columbine students like this. Chatfield ones too. Had many conversations about the shooting, Eric and Dylan, etc. In some ways this was the best time to investigate Columbine online. A lot of this was before the report or the 11k so I had no idea what had actually happened in the school.
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:55 am

The hate for Brooks is getting really ridiculous now on Columbine related sites.

Most of it deals with the whole underage 16 year old girl several years back. It's clouding your judgement
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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:11 am

Does anyone have any information on the underage girl incident?

As for the original question, I would probably have to say Dylan. I'm not sure if experiencing the memories also includes experiencing the thoughts, but if so I would find his most interesting. Also I would like to know what it was like to actually carry out NBK.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:23 pm

I would also like memories of Dylan or Eric, including their thoughts. Their true thoughts and feelings is probably the biggest mystery.

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PostSubject: Re: If you could experience the memories of someone that day   Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
In 1999 and 2000 I used to go onto the AOL Instant Messenger database and search for ages 16-20 with Littleton, CO as the location.

I found all kinds of Columbine students like this.  Chatfield ones too.  Had many conversations about the shooting, Eric and Dylan, etc.  In some ways this was the best time to investigate Columbine online.  A lot of this was before the report or the 11k so I had no idea what had actually happened in the school.  

In the days after the shooting I'd get a LOT of random IMs from people who saw my location and age in my AOL profile, just to say how sorry they were to hear about the shooting and hoped I was ok.

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