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  Things Columbiners do

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shades
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't really like the term "Columbiner" because it makes me feel like some mass murder fanboy. I sympathize with Eric and Dylan in the sense that I was once in their position. I went to a very upscale and jock-centric public school just like Columbine. I also had my own issues with teenage depression and suicidal thoughts. I was the kid who joked about mowing the lunch line down with a machine gun or blowing up the gymnasium while the jocks practiced basketball. It terrifies me just how close I came to pulling an NBK myself. Reading about two kids who actually went through with it helped me. Eric and Dylan's actions woke me up to how much of waste that kind of senseless violence is. That's actually a sentiment I've seen repeated over and over again on this board. Columbine is known for the copycats its inspired, but I'd be willing to bet its also prevented an equal amount as well.

Do Dylan and Eric deserve to be praised as heroes? Fuck no they don't. Theres nothing noble or revolutionary about killing children as they cower. They shouldn't be labeled as monsters either though. There's o such thing as black and white evil. Its possible to feel sympathy for the boys while hating what they did. In fact I hardly ever see anyone who supports Eric and Dylan, and when someone voices that opinion they tend to be called out. This board is ultimately for information purposes, not to praise or vilify the dead.
Amen!

_________________
If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:13 pm

Looks like I'm a bit late to the party on this one, but I'm glad this thread got revived because this aspect of Columbine has become so intriguing/troublesome to me in and of itself. Tumblr wasn't a thing when I first started researching, so to go through a lull for years and then to come back to such a blatant "fandom" was a trip to say the least. This forum has been a breath of fresh air in contrast.

The "Columbiner" community, which I don't categorize myself as part of, has become like it's own weird little microcosm of a study alongside the actual case. Like, most of the stuff in the tag is really cringeworthy or inexplicable to me, but I find myself checking back often simply because it's a incredible phenomenon to observe. I don't want to use the phrase "it's like watching a car crash" because there ARE blogs in the mix dedicated to organizing case facts and intelligent conjecture, but man...Some of the art/edits/stories/attitudes in there just escape me. I mostly wonder why, say, someone felt the need to edit in flower crowns over E&D's school photos, or make "Columbine shooting playlists" and those kinds of things.

On one hand I take the "live and let live" stance and don't harbor any personal issues with the content posted even if I wouldn't ever think to make it myself. After all, I'm sure that my interest stemmed from the same place, which generally seems to be one of: "E&D's actions should never be condoned, but their circumstances/thought processes were fascinating and tragic" People identify with that, I get it. Likewise, there's no problem with finding them attractive for their looks, though it does become a problem when attractiveness interferes with how the reality of their actions is perceived, or gives way to disturbing and distasteful content.

On the flip side, I also find myself gritting my teeth when I go through the tag and see boatloads of misinformation being posted as fact, with notes and notes of people exclaiming how they learned something new. Case and point, a recent post, with hundreds of notes, detailing how "library cameras" captured Dylan crying after Eric committed suicide (with no sources of course). Like WHAT?? I was seething, and luckily a few other people called out the BS, but not before scores of other expressed their genuine awe. It's maddening. And it's a HUGE problem if people are going to that tag with the mindset that everything they read is factual. I'm sure not many people who get their info there fact check on sites outside of Tumblr.

Like I said, I have to give them some credit, because I have found a number of blogs that have become invaluable sources for info and analysis, but overall I think the community there does equal amounts of harm and good, if only because fangirl-y blogs and research blogs are all lumped together with the same label, as well as many that could be categorized as both.

I recently had to unfollow one of the few Columbine blogs I check regularly because the person began posting "stories" or "imagines". For the uninitiated this means usually self-insert, or second-person format stories, written by the blog owner, usually based off a plot request from another user. Often these requests are along the lines of "Dylan takes you to the NIN concert as a date" or "Eric gets jealous when he sees other guys talking to you"... and obviously the more sexual ones...Yeah. Honestly, these are worse to me than some of the visual edits floating around. At least visuals could feel like more of a 'tribute' at best? The stories are so contrived and absurd that they really can't be filed as anything other than E&D crush fodder. Fanfiction with real people? Mass murderers no less? No thanks. To each their own, but those to me are one of the more gross, disrespectful, and masturbatory pieces of content that really smear the community as a whole. Mind you, this person I unfollowed had otherwise been a great source of information, but with this kind of discourse now sprinkled like land mines in between, I just didn't have the patience for it. It's now certainly now one of many blogs that posts both kinds content, clinical and fantastical, side by side. What a strange experience...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The biggest issue I have (and it seems most of you have as well) is the fact that many true crime blogs on Tumblr are Columbiner blogs and say "yeah true crime yo" but then only blog about Eric and Dylan. Occasionally, there's some Richard Ramirez stuff, but he was also a good looking and funny guy so he's honestly to them the serial killer, more twisted version of E+D.

I don't know. For me, it's that I find other shooters more interesting. Honestly, if I had to tag a name to myself, I'd be a Kinkelphile (?) because Kip Kinkel is the most interesting shooter of all, yet nobody talks about him. Also, Kinkelphile is a bad word but there's currently no name for people interested in him so I had to make it up. I'm not blogging about him because I'd bang him.

Ugh, yes. This has annoyed me to no end. Aside from the all the nuances surrounding the blogs that are openly Columbine-centric, they've absolutely had a hand in co-opting the "true crime community" identity as well. It should be as broad of a community as it sounds, but it honestly every day it just looks more and more like code for "E&D, Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez, Jeffery Dahmer, maybe Dylann Roof." It's tiring. I wish that there was more of a spotlight on blogs that actually posted new cases, cases one may not have heard of, rather than just the same regurgitation of Bundy, Ramirez, Dahmer. Doesn't that get old fast? Kudos to you for your blog putting some focus on Kinkel. I find his case intriguing as well and wonder why it's barely ever talked about...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
These extreme 'columbiners' make me feel embarrassed to be interested in the subject. I honestly had no idea it had this big of a following until recently. I'm more interested in the event itself and the psychology aspects of it, but these nutty fangirls/guys (like this lynn Ann person) kinda cheapen it for me. I get there are extreme fans like this for just about everything, but it ends up turning me off to the whole thing and lose interest in it. Not sure why, maybe it makes me feel like I'm going to be associated with obsessive people like that b/c we share a similar interest... Does anyone else feel this way?

Same here, dude. It doesn't necessarily turn me off of the case, but it makes me very worried. For one, because of the misinformation issue I stated above, but also because like you mentioned, it's now a risk you run to be associated with people you disagree with, simply for sharing an interest, albeit with very different viewpoints. This is particularly bothersome to me, as someone who would one day maybe like to dabble in true crime podcasting. If I ever muse openly about some of the quirkier, pre-massacre life aspects of E&D, or mention that my interest started as a young troubled teenager, am I going to be categorized as one of these infamously obsessive people? I really hope not.
It also doesn't help that Onision recently made a rant video with over a quarter of a million views ripping into Columbiners and the TCC as a whole, (as well as Sue for no good reason). Even though I don't identify with either group, my head was in my hands as I watched because of how reactionary and ill-informed the rant was; as if every single columbine-interested person on the internet is a disturbed, horny, teenager girl. It's blanket generalizations like his that are also harmful to everyone, but were no doubt fueled by a handful of blogging E&D admirers who are just more visible and noisy than others, unfortunately.    

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't really like the term "Columbiner" because it makes me feel like some mass murder fanboy. I sympathize with Eric and Dylan in the sense that I was once in their position. I went to a very upscale and jock-centric public school just like Columbine. I also had my own issues with teenage depression and suicidal thoughts...Do Dylan and Eric deserve to be praised as heroes? Fuck no they don't. Theres nothing noble or revolutionary about killing children as they cower. They shouldn't be labeled as monsters either though. There's o such thing as black and white evil. Its possible to feel sympathy for the boys while hating what they did.
 

I completely agree with all of this!! I too had the same experience with school and depression, and I think most people, both on here and on Tumblr, would agree with all these thoughts, especially the last part. The way people deal with that conflicting sympathy can manifest in different ways-- ways that might seem disturbed to others. I suppose I have to include myself in that category since my dislike for the "stories" in particular is pretty steadfast, but I do think the line is pretty blurry and subjective as to healthy and unhealthy expressions of said sympathy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Columbine is known for the copycats its inspired, but I'd be willing to bet its also prevented an equal amount as well.

This is such an interesting sentiment, and one that I had never really considered, though I'm sure it's true! Bravo!
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:23 am

Everyone of course is free to believe as they wish but I feel as though I must speak up for the Columbiner life.
There are those of us who treasure being a Columbiner and its a lot more positive than negative.I don't think I'd want to trade what being a Columbiner has taught me for almost anything.

To me, the name Columbiner is a shared identity for the subculture, a group identity.One reason this is important is that in ways the subculture is clustered in a few locations(websites) and not all of us know each other at all. I am now more of a solo Columbiner as I am not involved in any Columbiner groups at this time but I am still proud to be a part of the whole.I do not believe that most of us use it in some kind of applause for what E &D did at all.Just the opposite.

It is certainly and has been my choice to self -identify as a Columbiner and it's something that I'm proud to do.After all these years ,I would have to say that being a Columbiner is a big part of who I am.

I truly enjoy the stories and imagines although at times I've been a bit embarrassed if the sexual content was extremely graphic but that doesn't happen often as I guess I'm used to it after all this time.
I can't speak for anybody else but for me the stories are another way of connecting with E &D if only for the time I'm reading whatever it is.
Of course sometimes you read something and it hits you deeply and stays with you for whatever reason and so the connection can be longer lasting which is nice.

I can't say I know who Onison is but I think every long term Columbiner is used to people judging us and criticising us in often very brutual terms without even trying to talk to us or find out where we are coming from or why, but they aren't the first person to make such a video slamming us and they won't be the last.There used to be a guy on YT called The Amazing Atheist that went on for years slamming us in videos but moved on quite some time ago .

I don't think Pipstrelle with the feelings that you seem to have towards our subculture that you have to worry about being lumped in with us or associated with us.I truly don't.

I hope that I don't seem like I'm scolding anyone or judging anyone because that's not my intent at all.
Its just that as you guys were expressing your views of the negativeness of the Columbiner subculture I feel compelled to speak for the positivity I feel is inherent in it too.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Its just that as you guys were expressing your views of the negativeness of the Columbiner subculture I feel compelled to speak for the positivity I feel is inherent in it too.

I think anything that allows people to feel less alone, part of a community and understood is a good thing.

Aside from that, I don't specifically look much on tumblr for information about Eric and Dylan but in the past I have googled specific phrases, names or details and the first result is a tumblr blog. I think this is interesting. Some of these people provide some good information and clearly have a genuine interest in the situation. Of course, there is also misinformation and that's where the problem sets in. You have this group of people who know what they're talking about, who have a good reason for wanting to talk about these things and then you have a group of young people going for the shock value and post-ironic (or straight up earnest) worship of killers with very little factual information. This is when it crosses the line into ignorant glorification and I'm not a fan of that because I think facts are of the utmost importance.

I do find myself chuckling guiltily at some of the dark humor when I come across it though so I can understand where some of these people might be coming from. This is now a pop culture phenomenon in a lot of ways. It's been over 17 years since this happened and a lot of these people were in diapers (or not even born!) at the time of the shooting. It's so removed from reality for them that they see it almost as a movie where the two villainous bad boys are just dreamy fantasies like in any of the other movies or books they enjoy. So they fangirl over the "characters" and identify with or write fanfiction about the "protagonists" as if none of this were real. If you look at it this way, it's easier to understand how people can come across as callous. They just don't take it seriously and don't understand that this happened to real people who on one particular day of their high school career, were sitting in the cafeteria or library when a couple of their peers did something absolutely unheard of, leaving them with all kinds of trauma. It's just a game for a lot of these kids. Who can post the most outrageous content, who can get the most attention.

But if attention is what they need, then maybe it's a good thing that they can act out their fantasies vicariously. I know there are some who have taken their admiration of Eric and Dylan too far (Cho is one very gruesome example) but the majority are just kids who are blowing off steam and enjoying their status as Columbiners for the feeling of inclusion and excitement. I'm not too concerned about the people who are offended by these things (unless they were directly involved with Columbine) because these days there are some people who will find a way to be offended by just about anything. Some of them might be a little misguided but I'm not going to judge because people are usually drawn to things like this for personal reasons that are none of my business. I'm also not going to support anyone being censored because any honest expression is valid. People are infinitely weird and in a way, I really enjoy that, especially in a world where so many people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they're afraid to have their own opinions.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:45 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This is now a pop culture phenomenon in a lot of ways. It's been over 17 years since this happened and a lot of these people were in diapers (or not even born!) at the time of the shooting. It's so removed from reality for them that they see it almost as a movie where the two villainous bad boys are just dreamy fantasies like in any of the other movies or books they enjoy. So they fangirl over the "characters" and identify with or write fanfiction about the "protagonists" as if none of this were real. If you look at it this way, it's easier to understand how people can come across as callous. They just don't take it seriously and don't understand that this happened to real people who on one particular day of their high school career, were sitting in the cafeteria or library when a couple of their peers did something absolutely unheard of, leaving them with all kinds of trauma. It's just a game for a lot of these kids. Who can post the most outrageous content, who can get the most attention.

Yeah, pretty much.
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:21 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think anything that allows people to feel less alone, part of a community and understood is a good thing.

Aside from that, I don't specifically look much on tumblr for information about Eric and Dylan but in the past I have googled specific phrases, names or details and the first result is a tumblr blog. I think this is interesting. Some of these people provide some good information and clearly have a genuine interest in the situation. Of course, there is also misinformation and that's where the problem sets in. You have this group of people who know what they're talking about, who have a good reason for wanting to talk about these things and then you have a group of young people going for the shock value and post-ironic (or straight up earnest) worship of killers with very little factual information. This is when it crosses the line into ignorant glorification and I'm not a fan of that because I think facts are of the utmost importance.

I do find myself chuckling guiltily at some of the dark humor when I come across it though so I can understand where some of these people might be coming from. This is now a pop culture phenomenon in a lot of ways. It's been over 17 years since this happened and a lot of these people were in diapers (or not even born!) at the time of the shooting. It's so removed from reality for them that they see it almost as a movie where the two villainous bad boys are just dreamy fantasies like in any of the other movies or books they enjoy. So they fangirl over the "characters" and identify with or write fanfiction about the "protagonists" as if none of this were real. If you look at it this way, it's easier to understand how people can come across as callous. They just don't take it seriously and don't understand that this happened to real people who on one particular day of their high school career, were sitting in the cafeteria or library when a couple of their peers did something absolutely unheard of, leaving them with all kinds of trauma. It's just a game for a lot of these kids. Who can post the most outrageous content, who can get the most attention.

But if attention is what they need, then maybe it's a good thing that they can act out their fantasies vicariously. I know there are some who have taken their admiration of Eric and Dylan too far (Cho is one very gruesome example) but the majority are just kids who are blowing off steam and enjoying their status as Columbiners for the feeling of inclusion and excitement. I'm not too concerned about the people who are offended by these things (unless they were directly involved with Columbine) because these days there are some people who will find a way to be offended by just about anything. Some of them might be a little misguided but I'm not going to judge because people are usually drawn to things like this for personal reasons that are none of my business. I'm also not going to support anyone being censored because any honest expression is valid. People are infinitely weird and in a way, I really enjoy that, especially in a world where so many people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they're afraid to have their own opinions.
perfect.

_________________
If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:19 pm

I really don't mind the fangirls, fanboys, and stupid people of tumblr.  I personally think it's dumb to get a tattoo of E&D. It's dumb to have an Eric or Dylan poster or necklace or whatever.  But I remind myself that these are usually young people.....teenagers (who I consider kids) so it's not a huge deal. I did dumb things too when I was a teenager. And even if these are adults, it really doesn't bother me either.  Women have been obsessed over men in prison for as long as I can remember and you are always going to have that strange sub-culture of people who, for whatever reason, become infatuated with criminals.  They are usually harmless........ delusional, but harmless.

The only problem I have is when people actually condone what they did. People like Lynn Anne disgust me.  I'm really not sure if she is mentally ill or just the biggest troll ever, but either way it's disgusting to hear someone say so many disturbing things about the victims.  And to go on and on about how sexy Eric is, etc.  Those are the people I feel ashamed of. These are the people who scare me.  People who admire what E&D did are disturbed individuals.
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I really don't mind the fangirls, fanboys, and stupid people of tumblr. I personally think it's dumb to get a tattoo of E&D. It's dumb to have an Eric or Dylan poster or necklace or whatever. But I remind myself that these are usually young people.....teenagers (who I consider kids) so it's not a huge deal. I did dumb things too when I was a teenager. And even if these are adults, it really doesn't bother me either. Women have been obsessed over men in prison for as long as I can remember and you are always going to have that strange sub-culture of people who, for whatever reason, become infatuated with criminals. They are usually harmless........ delusional, but harmless.

The only problem I have is when people actually condone what they did. People like Lynn Anne disgust me. I'm really not sure if she is mentally ill or just the biggest troll ever, but either way it's disgusting to hear someone say so many disturbing things about the victims. And to go on and on about how sexy Eric is, etc. Those are the people I feel ashamed of. These are the people who scare me. People who admire what E&D did are disturbed individuals.

I don't think the tattoos are that dumb if they're as I've previously said, inconspicuous of what it represents, maybe an indirect tattoo that's meant to be a tribute of Columbine and not particularly a confession of love for the boys or something. I've seen really impressive art done by dedicated people based on Columbine. I think most of these teens who have posters or necklaces of them might be at a period of their life where they're feeling isolated or lonely, lack of a hobby so this obsession is keeping them from loneliness. Let's just hope they aren't in too deep where they end up inspired to go harm others.
I think it'd be pretty awesome if Lynn Ann is trolling, down to her cosmetic surgeries, and she just hasn't built that huge of recognition yet. The way that we're reacting would be exactly what she wants. But, I don't know for sure.

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If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:42 pm

I know Lynn Ann personally and I can assure you she's not trolling. Everything she says is what she truly believes.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Lynn Ann personally and I can assure you she's not trolling. Everything she says is what she truly believes.
Don't want to seem like I'm prying, you don't have to answer if you don't want to or can't on her behalf, but do you know her enough to know that she lives a fairly normal life outside of her Columbine obsession? Like, just a normal adult who can get by herself or, does she seem like someone who lives in isolation?

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If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Its just that as you guys were expressing your views of the negativeness of the Columbiner subculture I feel compelled to speak for the positivity I feel is inherent in it too.

I think anything that allows people to feel less alone, part of a community and understood is a good thing.

Aside from that, I don't specifically look much on tumblr for information about Eric and Dylan but in the past I have googled specific phrases, names or details and the first result is a tumblr blog. I think this is interesting. Some of these people provide some good information and clearly have a genuine interest in the situation. Of course, there is also misinformation and that's where the problem sets in. You have this group of people who know what they're talking about, who have a good reason for wanting to talk about these things and then you have a group of young people going for the shock value and post-ironic (or straight up earnest) worship of killers with very little factual information. This is when it crosses the line into ignorant glorification and I'm not a fan of that because I think facts are of the utmost importance.

I do find myself chuckling guiltily at some of the dark humor when I come across it though so I can understand where some of these people might be coming from. This is now a pop culture phenomenon in a lot of ways. It's been over 17 years since this happened and a lot of these people were in diapers (or not even born!) at the time of the shooting. It's so removed from reality for them that they see it almost as a movie where the two villainous bad boys are just dreamy fantasies like in any of the other movies or books they enjoy. So they fangirl over the "characters" and identify with or write fanfiction about the "protagonists" as if none of this were real. If you look at it this way, it's easier to understand how people can come across as callous. They just don't take it seriously and don't understand that this happened to real people who on one particular day of their high school career, were sitting in the cafeteria or library when a couple of their peers did something absolutely unheard of, leaving them with all kinds of trauma. It's just a game for a lot of these kids. Who can post the most outrageous content, who can get the most attention.

But if attention is what they need, then maybe it's a good thing that they can act out their fantasies vicariously. I know there are some who have taken their admiration of Eric and Dylan too far (Cho is one very gruesome example) but the majority are just kids who are blowing off steam and enjoying their status as Columbiners for the feeling of inclusion and excitement. I'm not too concerned about the people who are offended by these things (unless they were directly involved with Columbine) because these days there are some people who will find a way to be offended by just about anything. Some of them might be a little misguided but I'm not going to judge because people are usually drawn to things like this for personal reasons that are none of my business. I'm also not going to support anyone being censored because any honest expression is valid. People are infinitely weird and in a way, I really enjoy that, especially in a world where so many people are so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that they're afraid to have their own opinions.


While I'm sure that some Columbiners act out at times for attention I sincerely do not believe that is what its about for most Columbiners both past and present.
Whether the majority of people like or understand or agree with it or not, I believe this is about human beings having a very real,very powerful emotional experience through their emotional connection to E &D.
This emotional experience can take very different facets within the same person at the same time but I believe this is the essence of the Columbiner subculture.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:05 pm

Thanks, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for your insights. Not judge-y at all. It's always valuable to get the other side's viewpoint in these kinds of discussions. I really am glad that you enjoy identifying and learning from the community. For all the negativity I focused on, I want to add that I do see positive glimmers in the content put out by people in the group as well. I think this is best exemplified in Columbiners reaching out to others in the group; I've seen a number of them offer an ear to anyone experiencing and needing to talk about bullying, depression, or even confusing feelings regarding E&D. I have no doubt that there are pillars of support in there taking many forms. I know that even if I don't always understand or agree with it, on the whole it does seem to be a positive influence for the people within it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do not believe that most of us use it in some kind of applause for what E &D did at all.Just the opposite.

I'm sure that this is big area where Columbiners and non-Columbiners (that it to say, people interested in the case, but not in the community) very much see eye to eye. I have only maybe ever seen one or two people on Tumblr, proudly proclaiming that their blogs "condone" and they faced a lot of heat from others on all their content. Though I'm sure to outsiders like Onision and Amazing Atheist, all they needed was to come across a small group of people who found E&D attractive and/or worthy of sympathy and they blow that out of proportion, claiming widespread "Killer Worship". That isn't fair for anyone, or accurate for that matter. The last thing I'd like is for Columbiners to be further demonized.

I'm less concerned with being mistaken for a Columbiner, more so concerned about the potential for rampant misinformation, and a stigma of depravity for the entire subset of true crime enthusiasts as a whole.

But as with many things, there is a sliding scale that applies. Columbiners are not a hive mind, and the identity will mean different things to different people. It's why I find myself conflicted on some of the content as an outsider looking in. There are arguments and disagreements and personal preferences within the community... It's not as if there's rules denoting who can and can't consider themselves part of this subset. It takes all kinds: Mature/immature, clinical/emotional, young/old ect. and it's worrisome if people don't realize that.

As for the stories and imagines... I can't say I dislike them any less, but I appreciate that we have the perspective of someone who finds the value in them. The idea probably won't ever sit well with me, but oh well. As [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said, I would never want to censor people.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:10 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Lynn Ann personally and I can assure you she's not trolling. Everything she says is what she truly believes.
Don't want to seem like I'm prying, you don't have to answer if you don't want to or can't on her behalf, but do you know her enough to know that she lives a fairly normal life outside of her Columbine obsession? Like, just a normal adult who can get by herself or, does she seem like someone who lives in isolation?
No, she's not in isolation at all. She has a job, she takes college classes, goes out with friends. She has mentioned the people at her job do know about her obsession with Eric, so it's not something she keeps a secret. It's in her every day life as much as her internet life. Other than that, I'm not going to say much more about her. She's not here to speak for herself.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
While I'm sure that some Columbiners act out at times for attention I sincerely do not believe that is what its about for most Columbiners both past and present.
Whether the majority of people like or understand or agree with it or not, I believe this is about human beings having a very real,very powerful emotional experience through their emotional connection to E &D.
This emotional experience can take very different facets within the same person at the same time but I believe this is the essence of the Columbiner subculture.

To start with, I'll say that I didn't mean to cheapen the connection that some Columbiners have to Eric and Dylan. I did say that people are generally drawn to these things for personal reasons and I think you clarified a lot of what I meant just now. However, I don't really know the ratio of people who are doing this for fun as opposed to the people who are doing this because they actually care. It makes me confused every time I see Eric and Dylan put into a sexual context because I do see them as human beings and I feel like this is a piece of Columbiner culture that is less personal and less serious. And there's plenty of it. There are also people who fetishize the violence. So I do sometimes doubt that the majority of people who are Columbiners feel as connected as you but I don't doubt that there are lots who find an extremely personal significance in the story of Eric or Dylan. I recognize the fact that there are people who will disapprove of my take on the situation as well and that is why I don't judge, even those who clearly don't take it all to heart. I do have a personal connection of my own and I understand why someone might become a Columbiner for reasons that have nothing to do with attention.

Basically, I was talking about the pieces of the community that I have trouble relating to. There are people that take it to a place that I would never go (because of that connection I feel, not in spite of it) so maybe I've misunderstood them but I don't necessarily think so. I am sure that not every Columbiner has pure intentions, regardless of how many do. I still don't fault them for it though. As anyone who studies Columbine or other mass shootings learns in a big way, everyone has their reasons for doing what they do and unless they tell you why they've done something you'll never know for sure (and maybe not even then). Still, I described the edgier and less serious Columbiners as I interpret it and it's entirely possible that I underestimate their connection since I'm not a part of their community.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:51 pm

^ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Brilliantly put! (at least from my very like-mided perspective)

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:31 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
While I'm sure that some Columbiners act out at times for attention I sincerely do not believe that is what its about for most Columbiners both past and present.
Whether the majority of people like or understand or agree with it or not, I believe this is about human beings having a very real,very powerful emotional experience through their emotional connection to E &D.
This emotional experience can take very different facets within the same person at the same time but I believe this is the essence of the Columbiner subculture.

To start with, I'll say that I didn't mean to cheapen the connection that some Columbiners have to Eric and Dylan. I did say that people are generally drawn to these things for personal reasons and I think you clarified a lot of what I meant just now. However, I don't really know the ratio of people who are doing this for fun as opposed to the people who are doing this because they actually care. It makes me confused every time I see Eric and Dylan put into a sexual context because I do see them as human beings and I feel like this is a piece of Columbiner culture that is less personal and less serious. And there's plenty of it. There are also people who fetishize the violence. So I do sometimes doubt that the majority of people who are Columbiners feel as connected as you but I don't doubt that there are lots who find an extremely personal significance in the story of Eric or Dylan. I recognize the fact that there are people who will disapprove of my take on the situation as well and that is why I don't judge, even those who clearly don't take it all to heart. I do have a personal connection of my own and I understand why someone might become a Columbiner for reasons that have nothing to do with attention.

Basically, I was talking about the pieces of the community that I have trouble relating to. There are people that take it to a place that I would never go (because of that connection I feel, not in spite of it) so maybe I've misunderstood them but I don't necessarily think so. I am sure that not every Columbiner has pure intentions, regardless of how many do. I still don't fault them for it though. As anyone who studies Columbine or other mass shootings learns in a big way, everyone has their reasons for doing what they do and unless they tell you why they've done something you'll never know for sure (and maybe not even then). Still, I described the edgier and less serious Columbiners as I interpret it and it's entirely possible that I underestimate their connection since I'm not a part of their community.


No problem.It's all cool with me. As far as the romantic/sexual thing goes that's been going on by a fair amount of Columbiners since the start and I don't see that changing.
That was a large part of what I was speaking of when I spoke about people involved in this that have different facets going on at the same time.I don't think that most of the ones that do have a romantic or sexual thing for them going on are necessarily just doing it for fun or are less committed although I'm sure there are a few that are. Sexual and romantic feelings can be extremely powerful and since E &D are not havable,these members need to have an outlet to share these thoughts, feelings and fantasies instead of forever keeping them inside so they share them with people whom they know that at least a percentage of will understand.

I myself have no problem with the romantic /sexual thing as I see it as harmless and feel that E &D would probably be flattered by a lot of it but I do understand why some Columbiners wouldn't like it and why non -Columbiners would find it inappropriate.

A lot of the stories I post links to in the fanfiction section have sexual content but I post them anyway because I think the stories are excellent outside of that and I don't often find good E &D stories that don't contain some kind of sexual or romantic scenes.But I label them as such so people have a choice as whether or not they are willing to read them and aren't surprised.

I think these occasional discussions about what a Columbiner is or isn't or where we are coming from is a good thing because I know that although some on the board don't like that there is such a thing as a Columbiner and probably wish that there were none here, we have been around since the beginning and as long as there remains even a tiny bit of interest,I feel there will be a few of us who remain.
So its good to talk and clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings.



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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thanks, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for your insights. Not judge-y at all. It's always valuable to get the other side's viewpoint in these kinds of discussions. I really am glad that you enjoy identifying and learning from the community. For all the negativity I focused on, I want to add that I do see positive glimmers in the content put out by people in the group as well. I think this is best exemplified in Columbiners reaching out to others in the group; I've seen a number of them offer an ear to anyone experiencing and needing to talk about bullying, depression, or even confusing feelings regarding E&D. I have no doubt that there are pillars of support in there taking many forms. I know that even if I don't always understand or agree with it, on the whole it does seem to be a positive influence for the people within it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do not believe that most of us use it in some kind of applause for what E &D did at all.Just the opposite.

I'm sure that this is big area where Columbiners and non-Columbiners (that it to say, people interested in the case, but not in the community) very much see eye to eye. I have only maybe ever seen one or two people on Tumblr, proudly proclaiming that their blogs "condone" and they faced a lot of heat from others on all their content. Though I'm sure to outsiders like Onision and Amazing Atheist, all they needed was to come across a small group of people who found E&D attractive and/or worthy of sympathy and they blow that out of proportion, claiming widespread "Killer Worship". That isn't fair for anyone, or accurate for that matter. The last thing I'd like is for Columbiners to be further demonized.

I'm less concerned with being mistaken for a Columbiner, more so concerned about the potential for rampant misinformation, and a stigma of depravity for the entire subset of true crime enthusiasts as a whole.

But as with many things, there is a sliding scale that applies. Columbiners are not a hive mind, and the identity will mean different things to different people. It's why I find myself conflicted on some of the content as an outsider looking in. There are arguments and disagreements and personal preferences within the community... It's not as if there's rules denoting who can and can't consider themselves part of this subset. It takes all kinds: Mature/immature, clinical/emotional, young/old ect. and it's worrisome if people don't realize that.

As for the stories and imagines... I can't say I dislike them any less, but I appreciate that we have the perspective of someone who finds the value in them. The idea probably won't ever sit well with me, but oh well. As [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said, I would never want to censor people.


Thank you for reading what I said with an open mind and understanding.I appreciate it.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I myself have no problem with the romantic /sexual thing as I see it as harmless and feel that E &D would probably be flattered by a lot of it but I do understand why some Columbiners wouldn't like it and why non -Columbiners would find it inappropriate.

A lot of the stories I post links to in the fanfiction section have sexual content but I post them anyway because I think the stories are excellent outside of that and I don't often find good E &D stories that don't contain some kind of sexual or romantic scenes.But I label them as such so people have a choice as whether or not they are willing to read them and aren't surprised.

I think these occasional discussions about what a Columbiner is or isn't or where we are coming from is a good thing because I know that although some on the board don't like that there is such a thing as a Columbiner and probably wish that there were none here, we have been around since the beginning and as long as there remains even a tiny bit of interest,I feel there will be a few of us who remain.
So its good to talk and clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings.
I've seen you post those before and I even read a few of them. I wouldn't say I have a problem with the sexual and romantic art/fanfiction as much as I don't understand the impulse and so it comes off as silly to me, which I interpret as people making it all into a joke. I've never been into fanfiction or fanbases or tributes or things like that so I don't understand how it all works. I guess I'm more of a sticking-to-the-facts kind of person most of the time and that's how I connect to the story. I have a thing for facts and figures and it interferes with my creative spirit, I guess, because my ideal is to have everything be represented and understood in a way that is as close to reality as possible. Also, a fanfiction is inevitably about the person writing it as much as it's about Eric or Dylan and that kind of bugs me. But when you feel a personal attachment, I guess wanting to add a piece of yourself to the story makes perfect sense.

Thanks for your perspective. I enjoy having someone from the actual Columbiner community here to represent the realities so I don't have to assume. And I enjoy speaking to someone who has no shame about their personal attachment to Eric or Dylan because there is always going to be some judgment regarding people who express anything that suggests an understanding or connection with Eric or Dylan. Obviously, I understand why, but it's nice to have that balanced out sometimes. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:17 am

About the fetishism of violence that sscc mentioned that they feel a lot of Columbiners do, I had some thoughts on that I wanted to share.I used to dress like E &D sometimes and that includes their last day outfits .But after some thought and some evolving perspective some years ago I don't feel comfortable doing that anymore.I do still have the clothes and I keep them as a keepsake because it was what they wore on their last day of life after all .I can say with total honestly that I never once thought "These are the clothes that E &D wore to kill people.Cool!" or anything like it.
To think that way just never entered my head.For me, it was just another way to connect to E &D.
And while some Columbiners may wear the clothes because they are enthralled by the deadly violence that E &D perpetrated,I would bet that most Columbiners wear them for that sense of feeling closer to E &D.I don't judge any Columbiner or condemn them for wearing those particular clothes but its just not for me anymore.
I do think wearing anything else they did would be a perfectly okay thing to do.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:48 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I myself have no problem with the romantic /sexual thing as I see it as harmless and feel that E &D would probably be flattered by a lot of it but I do understand why some Columbiners wouldn't like it and why non -Columbiners would find it inappropriate.

A lot of the stories I post links to in the fanfiction section have sexual content but I post them anyway because I think the stories are excellent outside of that and I don't often find good E &D stories that don't contain some kind of sexual or romantic scenes.But I label them as such so people have a choice as whether or not they are willing to read them and aren't surprised.

I think these occasional discussions about what a Columbiner is or isn't or where we are coming from is a good thing because I know that although some on the board don't like that there is such a thing as a Columbiner and probably wish that there were none here, we have been around since the beginning and as long as there remains even a tiny bit of interest,I feel there will be a few of us who remain.
So its good to talk and clear up misconceptions and misunderstandings.
I've seen you post those before and I even read a few of them. I wouldn't say I have a problem with the sexual and romantic art/fanfiction as much as I don't understand the impulse and so it comes off as silly to me, which I interpret as people making it all into a joke. I've never been into fanfiction or fanbases or tributes or things like that so I don't understand how it all works. I guess I'm more of a sticking-to-the-facts kind of person most of the time and that's how I connect to the story. I have a thing for facts and figures and it interferes with my creative spirit, I guess, because my ideal is to have everything be represented and understood in a way that is as close to reality as possible. Also, a fanfiction is inevitably about the person writing it as much as it's about Eric or Dylan and that kind of bugs me. But when you feel a personal attachment, I guess wanting to add a piece of yourself to the story makes perfect sense.

Thanks for your perspective. I enjoy having someone from the actual Columbiner community here to represent the realities so I don't have to assume. And I enjoy speaking to someone who has no shame about their personal attachment to Eric or Dylan because there is always going to be some judgment regarding people who express anything that suggests an understanding or connection with Eric or Dylan. Obviously, I understand why, but it's nice to have that balanced out sometimes. Very Happy


Thank you.It means a lot to me to know that someone finds my perspective as a Columbiner valuable here.I had always hoped that would happen.

Even though I have received a lot of nastiness and criticism over the years for being a Columbiner but it really takes no bravery on my part to be as open and honest about it as I am because I don't feel that I'm doing anything wrong or anything to be ashamed of, although of course I know probably the majority would disagree.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:39 am

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Can't believe this... In the game Roblox, there's a game called "school of rage-NBK". You can make your characters look like Eric and Dylan and use the same weapons and everything. That's kind of crazy....[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Oh my god. I play Roblox all the time for the laughs but this game just got serious. I wonder what the little kids on there are thinking while they play that game? "What's NBK?"

If you can report a game I'll find it and report it.
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:36 pm

So I saw something on my dashboard that didn't really tick me off, I'm not totally annoyed at all but more of a cringy reaction. I've always seen something like that in the Tumblr circle but there's a couple people who take it to a delusional level and it's now a pet peeve.

What the hell is up with people literally living their days as if they know Eric and Dylan? Like as if they exist on this earth and they go about sharing their lives through writing or pictures like the boys are talking to them? Why are you linking yourself and your days like as if the boys give a hoot when they don't because they are DEAD? Why are you in deep deep fantasy that don't even make sense?! They're not gonna love you, they don't care what you did for the day or what you are eating or what you were doing when you were 7 years old because guess what they don't even exist anymore they are DEAD. ERIC AND DYLAN IS DEAD. THEY ARE NOT YOUR HUSBANDS. Why are you sharing your childhood and linking yourself and your pictures with THEM? Don't YOU find it creepy! Snap out of it! Plus I see a bunch of "Oh when I'm xx years old my boy Dyl was xx doing xxxxx" like???!

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:49 pm

You are living in a made-up life and floating through a train of thought only happening in your mind and you know zero about the boys because they been dead for more than a decade. I have literally seen people going way past sanity and linking your own personal pictures, child pictures even, with two murders, talking bout' "oh we could have gone places together".

Sweetheart, what are you doing.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:20 pm

Obviously these guys have no lives whatsoever.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:16 am

I don't do this but its harmless really.
Like many other things Columbiners do, it gives them a sense of a real connection to E &D.
And since E &D are dead and can't be spoken to, written to or called on the phone etc, people will intensely latch on to any kind of a connection with them that they can get.
It's the same principle as people recreating their clothes, watching the movies they liked and the music they listened to, buying things they know E &D once owned,doing things they know E &D once did, making pilgrimages to Co.It's all about an intense need to connect.

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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:25 pm

I get quite a few messages on the Columbine Facebook page. Usually it's just stuff like photos or videos they want me to share on the timeline. Sometimes they ask me questions like what I think about Dylan and Eric. Sometimes they just tell me they like the page and there's also people who tell me they don't like the page and that I should turn the page into a memorial. You know all the normal stuff you'd expect to receive when you run a Columbine page. But today..I got this. I blocked out their name and profile for privacy. I guess they think I'm Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:34 pm

My least favorite thing that columbiners do is drawing cutesy cartoony drawings of the killers. I love cartoony stuff, but when it's used for that purpose...

It just drives home that it's like a fantasy for them.
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PostSubject: Re: Things Columbiners do   Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:30 am

This stuff just makes me laugh.
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