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 What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo

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sororityalpha

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PostSubject: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:11 pm

Library North Emergency Exit Door around 12:15-12:30pm

Rescue of Richard Castaldo



Kleinschmidt -- drove the fire truck.

DiManna -- used the shield to cover others. While dragging Castaldo, when he came up to door on right he felt a concussion/heat on his right side – doesn’t know what it was. April 23 1999 DiManna states that it felt like gravel, chunks from a pipe bomb [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] – April 24 1999 “A chunk of shrapnel in his right cheek” - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  

Phelan -- While dragging Castaldo, he observed several flashes to his right & observed O’Shea return fire.  

Gray -- provided suppression/cover fire etc  

O’Shea -- (1) He moved forward to render cover when they closed in on the library. (2) One of the suspects threw an improvised explosive and Sgt. O'Shea fired his weapon. This happened at the door by the entry way. A suspect discharged at least 3 rounds in the direction of the SWAT officers. He said that he could see muzzle flash coming from the suspect, but could not see the shooter.

Manwaring [commander JCSO SWAT Team] -- while advancing towards the west double doors while rescuing Castaldo, he proceeded to the chain link fence & thought he saw silhouette of an aggressor, fired 2/3 times.

Bloodworth Jr -- covered the Team during rescue but did not fire his weapon at that time

Bohlen -- assisted loading Castaldo into the police car

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:40 am

So this took place around 12:15-12:30 pm? If that's so then who was firing at the officers? The official record states Eric and Dylan were dead 10-20 minutes before this happened. Its possible the rescue happened earlier than the officers state and E and D fired on them while roaming the halls before finally returning to the library. That or E and D were alive longer than the official story states, which is something I've always considered to be a possibility.
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:02 pm

Both of these teams utilized the fire truck for cover as they approached the east side of CHS around 12:00pm.


At 12:06 P.M. six officers, led by Simmons, entered the school through a door just south of the main east doors.


Lieutenant Manwaring reported at 12:31 P.M. that the fire pumper on which he and the other SWAT officers were riding was at the north side of the school, moving toward the west side.

Three minutes later (12:34pm), the team arrived at the upper level of the school’s west side.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:44 am

sororityalpha wrote:
Both of these teams utilized the fire truck for cover as they approached the east side of CHS around 12:00pm.


At 12:06 P.M. six officers, led by Simmons, entered the school through a door just south of the main east doors.


Lieutenant Manwaring reported at 12:31 P.M. that the fire pumper on which he and the other SWAT officers were riding was at the north side of the school, moving toward the west side.

Three minutes later (12:34pm), the team arrived at the upper level of the school’s west side.

Is there any other existing evidence for their time of death besides the time stamp form the library fire suppression system? From what I've always read, that was pretty ironclad.

There's live footage of the fire truck rescue, so we know that time is spot on.

If it was lower level, could it have been shrapnel from the partial detonation of the cafeteria bomb?
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:01 pm

radaddio wrote:
If it was lower level, could it have been shrapnel from the partial detonation of the cafeteria bomb?

The Cafeteria Fire was @ 11:46 a.m.

I don't think it would have anything to do with that.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:37 pm

Got it. Maybe it was fragments from suppression fire?
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:50 pm

Being that O'Shea & Phelan observed flashes from that Door/Hallway and DiManna felt heat/concussion with shrapnel in his right cheek, I think either:

1) Eric/Dylan was still alive at that point and either engaged the SWAT Team or threw a device at the SWAT Team,

or

2) More than likely, a CO2 device got tripped or set off when the Swat Team passed the North Emergency Exit Library Door.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:12 pm

It could also be that the time stamp from the fire system was not really a good indication for their time of death. They may have lit the Molotov cocktail, but still were alive after the alarm went off.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is a very likely possibility as well.
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:12 am

I have always wondered about this and I applaud sororityalpha for setting out all this info.
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:04 pm

Bump this thread.
This (if you ask me) was either one of two things:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The first pipe bomb that Eric threw before opening fire detonated. It failed to detonate when he thew it. It was in the sun for a while and it could have heated up.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Dylan fired at the officers through the same hallway the student used to escape the library.
This goes well with my belief that Dylan was alive much longer that reported.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:48 pm

TheSpiral wrote:
This goes well with my belief that Dylan was alive much longer that reported.
Just to clarify, do you suspect that Eric killed himself and that Dylan not only hesitated but actually left the back of the library before returning to kill himself or do you think Eric killed himself while Dylan was somewhere else? What is it that first made you believe that Dylan was alive longer than he was reported to have lived?

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:27 am

sscc wrote:
TheSpiral wrote:
This goes well with my belief that Dylan was alive much longer that reported.
Just to clarify, do you suspect that Eric killed himself and that Dylan not only hesitated but actually left the back of the library before returning to kill himself or do you think Eric killed himself while Dylan was somewhere else? What is it that first made you believe that Dylan was alive longer than he was reported to have lived?

I don't know why people think Dylan killed himself right after Eric. That's not what the evidance points to.
To answer your first question: I think Dylan engaged the police after Eric was already dead.
To answer your second question:
A lot of things. First of all, there is no real way to tell when he died. The only thing we know for certain (at least I think so) is that Eric died first. Dylan's body was in much better shape, although I admit this could be because of the nature of the wound. The whole Calstaldo incident, as discussed in this thread. Ireland woke up at one point to hear coughing. If this is the same waking when he climbed out of a window, it could be that Dylan's shot woke him up. Once again, I admit this could be false because he did lose conciousness multiple times. Police seeing silhouettes and movement in the library well after noon.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:02 am

Isn't it likely that they just got spooked, starting firing, and mistook each other's firing for Eric and Dylan?
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:49 am

lasttrain wrote:
Isn't it likely that they just got spooked, starting firing, and mistook each other's firing for Eric and Dylan?

From inside the school? I doubt it.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:25 pm

TheSpiral wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
Isn't it likely that they just got spooked, starting firing, and mistook each other's firing for Eric and Dylan?

From inside the school? I doubt it.

You doubt that they got confused about the direction of gunfire when there were bullets flying all over the place, but you have no problem believing Dylan Klebold was alive for an additional thirty minutes, despite the fact that there is no evidence for that?

This is a good example of doubting one small piece in the evidence but coming up with a highly implausible theory to explain it.

Usually the simplest explanation is probably right, which is that Manwaring is standing by the chainlink fence and thinks he sees a silhouette of a suspect, so he fires. Gray is also providing cover fire, so there are lots of bullets flying down that corridor.

Phelan and O'Shea, who are moving eastward, both see gunfire out of their peripheral vision and think it is coming from the door itself, which is just east of where Manwaring is located, so O'Shea fires. Remember, O'Shea saw a flash, not a suspect, even though it was the middle of the day and the lights were on inside the door. He didn't see anyone standing there. But he fired back anyway.

This kind of preemptive cover happens all the time in police work. If JCSO had thought there was anything to this, they would have investigated further and there would be more evidence of Dylan's having been alive longer.
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:18 am

lasttrain wrote:
TheSpiral wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
Isn't it likely that they just got spooked, starting firing, and mistook each other's firing for Eric and Dylan?

From inside the school? I doubt it.

You doubt that they got confused about the direction of gunfire when there were bullets flying all over the place, but you have no problem believing Dylan Klebold was alive for an additional thirty minutes, despite the fact that there is no evidence for that?

This is a good example of doubting one small piece in the evidence but coming up with a highly implausible theory to explain it.

Usually the simplest explanation is probably right, which is that Manwaring is standing by the chainlink fence and thinks he sees a silhouette of a suspect, so he fires. Gray is also providing cover fire, so there are lots of bullets flying down that corridor.

Phelan and O'Shea, who are moving eastward, both see gunfire out of their peripheral vision and think it is coming from the door itself, which is just east of where Manwaring is located, so O'Shea fires. Remember, O'Shea saw a flash, not a suspect, even though it was the middle of the day and the lights were on inside the door. He didn't see anyone standing there. But he fired back anyway.

This kind of preemptive cover happens all the time in police work. If JCSO had thought there was anything to this, they would have investigated further and there would be more evidence of Dylan's having been alive longer.


Very convincing. But even if you are right, I still think Dylan was alive and about, up until 1pm. Is that really that impossible?

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:03 am

In your opinion, what is the reason that Dylan did not commit suicide at the same time as Eric? And what was he waiting for these half an hour?

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:28 am

Love wrote:
In your opinion, what is the reason that Dylan did not commit suicide at the same time as Eric? And what was he waiting for these half an hour?

I have no clue. Fear, and maybe curiosity to see how the situation would develop. Perhaps still waiting on those bombs. Checking his gun to make sure it didn't misfire. Or something else entirely.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:46 pm

It's not impossible by any means. What is the evidence for when he died? To my knowledge, there is none that pinpoints it definitively.

What we do know is that he died on his knees facing Eric, who died before him. It seems unlikely to me that he went back much later and knelt in front of Eric's dead body.

Also, I believe that Dylan put some personal effects near the Molotov cocktail (I could be wrong about this). I don't think he would have done that after the device exploded, since by that time the table was covered with brain matter and burned material.

I think the Molotov cocktail was their suicide timer.
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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:31 am

I think the Molotov was meant to burn down the library after they were dead, maybe even spread through the carpet into the hallway.
They saw what the sprinklers did in the commons, but none of their bombs activated any in the hallways and the library.
I think they tried to burn the school down, or at least set the library ablaze.

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PostSubject: Re: What Happened During the Rescue of Richard Castaldo    Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:36 pm

sororityalpha wrote:
Being that O'Shea & Phelan observed flashes from that Door/Hallway and DiManna felt heat/concussion with shrapnel in his right cheek, I think either:

1) Eric/Dylan was still alive at that point and either engaged the SWAT Team or threw a device at the SWAT Team,

or

2) More than likely, a CO2 device got tripped or set off when the Swat Team passed the North Emergency Exit Library Door.

I think I remember some report mentioning that the cheek wound was caused by a pipebomb fragment. You sure this all (I mean O'Shea's wound) took place after the suicides? I was under the impression that he got wounded by a pipebomb that E or D threw out of the library.

lasttrain wrote:
What we do know is that he died on his knees facing Eric, who died before him. It seems unlikely to me that he went back much later and knelt in front of Eric's dead body.

Yeah, I think from the blood splatter found on each of them the investigatoirs came to the conclusion that Dylan killed himself first and Eric killed himself after that. IIRC it was a case of Dylan's blood being found on Eric's clothes and then covered by Eric blood from Eric's head or something to that extent.


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