Influence of Columbine

How much did columbine influence other shooters? What were their roles in other shooters lives?

My post would be too long if I explained everything I wanted to in detail, so I'll keep it succinct.

There's evidence that in particular, Cho, Jeff Weise, Brain Draper, Tory Adamcik and others were influenced directly by Columbine. I would read up on those cases, their histories and personal experiences leading up to the violence is sobering.

PredBull wrote:

How much did columbine influence other shooters? What were their roles in other shooters lives?

Adam Lanza was influenced by Columbine. Jenn mentions that he had an account at a predecessor to this forum. I'm new here, too, so I don't know much of the history of this place, but others could tell you about Lanza's Columbine related posts.

Rose The Hat wrote:

PredBull wrote:

How much did columbine influence other shooters? What were their roles in other shooters lives?

Adam Lanza was influenced by Columbine. Jenn mentions that he had an account at a predecessor to this forum. I'm new here, too, so I don't know much of the history of this place, but others could tell you about Lanza's Columbine related posts.

The funny thing is that Adam rarely posted directly about Columbine or Eric and Dylan on the forum (or at the very least, those posts were deleted with no copy remaining available). I'm not sure what the ratio of Columbine related/off-topic posts was on the previous forum and there were certainly many off-topic threads (including random chat and talk of shootings in general) but I always thought that the lack of Columbine commentary by Smiggles was odd.

My original theory was that Lanza's introduction to high school in the fall of 2006 was somehow related to the initiation of his research on the topic of school shootings. Lanza stated that he first began his research in late 2006, around the time that he started following the Columbine forum, but only started compiling his list of mass shootings in early 2010, which was right after he finally joined the forum. Hawkins, Cho, Sodini, Breivik, and Kazmierczak, shooters in whom he seemed to express varying levels of special interest, all committed their attacks after 2006. Because of this, I thought that Columbine must have been the initial spark and something he studied with great interest, even if Lanza suggested otherwise by joking that, "Until 2006, I just knew that there was some time when two bullied kids went to their high school library and shot everyone who wore hats. That's still pretty much all I know," and more seriously stated that he had "scarcely ever cared about Columbine." His relatively few comments on Columbine were almost exclusively flippant or satirical, while his comments about other shootings were detailed and somewhat more serious in their tone. In the past, I had suspected that this was simply because he did not want to appear to be a Columbine fanboy.

However, taking a closer look, I think it's possible that he may have been telling the truth. There is one notable shooting other than Columbine that may have sparked his interest in mass shootings, though he never once referred to it on the forum. In late 2006, the same time that Lanza said he first found the forum through Google, Charles Carl Roberts took 10 young girls hostage at an Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania, eventually killing 5 and injuring 5 more, before committing suicide. In Lanza's room, investigators located a copy of Amish Grace, a book about this shooting.

It is pictured here, the blue book located in the drawer (along with a very old newspaper article about a school shooting).
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It is the only book about a mass shooting that he is known to have owned.

Roberts claimed to have molested two family members (between the ages of 3 and 5) when he was 12 years old, said that he was having recurring dreams about this and was starting to have urges to molest young girls again. This was cited as the probable motivation for the shooting since he brought items with him that indicated that he had planned to molest the schoolgirls but was interrupted by police before he could do that. Lanza's 2010 essay about pedophilia mentioned that society's treatment of pedophiles had bothered him since he was 14 years old. This timing would also match up with the late 2006 shooting.

If Lanza believed that the public's disgust with pedophiles was somehow responsible for what happened on that day, from the point of view that the perpetrator's societally induced guilt or fear of persecution over his urges pushed him into a desperate act of murder-suicide, then there is a possibility that Lanza's interest in pedophilia and mass murder both stemmed from this single event. We can't know for sure, but I think that the facts suggest that that this may have been the origin of his interest in mass shootings rather than Columbine.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], sorry if I don't quote your thoughtful and well thought out post. The jist of your post is that Adam Lanza joined the Columbine forum, was interested in school shootings, yet never really commented on Columbine. To sum up your post, Lanza danced around the subject of Columbine.

I don't have a source to quote, but I thought that Lanza did remark somewhere that he didn't want to join the Columbine Forums because he was afraid of being added to a terrorist watchlist.

Lol.

you are right Rose The Hat:

Quote :

Late 2006: According to “Smiggles’s” response to the ShockedBeyondBelief thread “How did you find this forum?” Adam Lanza first discovers said forum, which he later registers to: “I think I found it through Google toward the end of 2006. I didn’t register for years because it seemed like the kind of website which would get you on a terrorist watch-list.”

Bump.

Rose The Hat wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], sorry if I don't quote your thoughtful and well thought out post. The jist of your post is that Adam Lanza joined the Columbine forum, was interested in school shootings, yet never really commented on Columbine. To sum up your post, Lanza danced around the subject of Columbine.

I don't have a source to quote, but I thought that Lanza did remark somewhere that he didn't want to join the Columbine Forums because he was afraid of being added to a terrorist watchlist.

Lol.

Yes, this is true. This was his explanation for the gap in time between his finding the forum in 2006 and actually joining in the last days of 2009.

Smiggles wrote:

September 16, 2011 [Topic: How did you find this forum?]
I think I found it through Google toward the end of 2006. I didn't register for years because it seemed like the kind of website which would get you on a terrorist watch-list.

He did comment on Columbine occasionally, but here are some of his comments, to illustrate the tone he took toward the topic.

Smiggles wrote:

August 12, 2011 [Topic: Time article on the basement tapes]
The basement tapes must have included the third and fourth shooters. Fortunately for us, unredacted sections of the 11k reveal that their names are Erik Kleboldt and Dylon Haris.

Smiggles wrote:

August 29, 2011 [Topic: A couple images of Dylan I've never seen before]
That's ridiculous. According to Lola from the old acolumbinesite guestbook, Eric's spirit is waiting for her to be impregnated by his parents so that she can give birth to him again.

Smiggles wrote:

October 3, 2011 [Topic: Dylan's glasses.]
Wearing glasses might have provoked Eric into picking on him and shooting him in the face.

Smiggles wrote:

November 26, 2011 [Topic: Did Eric shave his head?]
Eric shaved his hair because he was tired of women lustfully tearing it out while he was making love to them, and Dylan had long hair so that his fringe could shield him from  the sorrows of the world.

Out of close to 300 posts, there weren't many other direct references to Columbine and only one or two were serious. He posted about many mass shootings and also posted a lot of comments about fictional media portraying mass shootings, along with some posts criticizing culture and society, some allusions to pedophilia and many other innocuous topics. Columbine was barely on his radar when posting on the forum but he had a copy of the 11k on his hard drive, so obviously it was something that interested him even if it wasn't his favorite topic.

sscc wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], sorry if I don't quote your thoughtful and well thought out post. The jist of your post is that Adam Lanza joined the Columbine forum, was interested in school shootings, yet never really commented on Columbine. To sum up your post, Lanza danced around the subject of Columbine.

I don't have a source to quote, but I thought that Lanza did remark somewhere that he didn't want to join the Columbine Forums because he was afraid of being added to a terrorist watchlist.

Lol.

Yes, this is true. This was his explanation for the gap in time between his finding the forum in 2006 and actually joining in the last days of 2009.

Smiggles wrote:

September 16, 2011 [Topic: How did you find this forum?]
I think I found it through Google toward the end of 2006. I didn't register for years because it seemed like the kind of website which would get you on a terrorist watch-list.

He did comment on Columbine occasionally, but here are some of his comments, to illustrate the tone he took toward the topic.

Smiggles wrote:

August 12, 2011 [Topic: Time article on the basement tapes]
The basement tapes must have included the third and fourth shooters. Fortunately for us, unredacted sections of the 11k reveal that their names are Erik Kleboldt and Dylon Haris.

Smiggles wrote:

August 29, 2011 [Topic: A couple images of Dylan I've never seen before]
That's ridiculous. According to Lola from the old acolumbinesite guestbook, Eric's spirit is waiting for her to be impregnated by his parents so that she can give birth to him again.

Smiggles wrote:

October 3, 2011 [Topic: Dylan's glasses.]
Wearing glasses might have provoked Eric into picking on him and shooting him in the face.

Smiggles wrote:

November 26, 2011 [Topic: Did Eric shave his head?]
Eric shaved his hair because he was tired of women lustfully tearing it out while he was making love to them, and Dylan had long hair so that his fringe could shield him from  the sorrows of the world.

Out of close to 300 posts, there weren't many other direct references to Columbine and only one or two were serious. He posted about many mass shootings and also posted a lot of comments about fictional media portraying mass shootings, along with some posts criticizing culture and society, some allusions to pedophilia and many other innocuous topics. Columbine was barely on his radar when posting on the forum but he had a copy of the 11k on his hard drive, so obviously it was something that interested him even if it wasn't his favorite topic.

He must have lurked for ages, but he finally joined a forum that he was afraid of joining for fear of being put on a watchlist. Lanza wasn't interested or inspired by Columbine at all...yeah, right.

Thank you for digging up his old posts. He was obviously living in a world of his own creation. However, I still think Columbine was a starting point for him.

Rose The Hat wrote:

Thank you for digging up his old posts. He was obviously living in a world of his own creation. However, I still think Columbine was a starting point for him.

I could easily be incorrect and Columbine certainly could have been the origin of his obsession with mass murder. I agree that despite his ostensible indifference to Eric and Dylan, Lanza obviously researched Columbine extensively. As I said before, I do believe that his insinuation that he did not care about Columbine was at least partially pretense, however, the evidence shows that he studied many shootings in great detail so it's unclear whether Columbine was really a special interest or there was just more information available for him to pore over in this case. An unnamed officer involved in the investigation was quoted as saying of his mass murder spreadsheet that Lanza "had around 500 people on this sheet. Names and the number of people killed and the weapons that were used, even the precise make and model of the weapons. It had to have taken years. It sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research." He wrote in nine point font and when printed out, the spreadsheet was seven feet long and four feet wide.

What do you mean when you say that he was living in a world of his own creation?

sscc wrote:

Rose The Hat wrote:

Thank you for digging up his old posts. He was obviously living in a world of his own creation. However, I still think Columbine was a starting point for him.

I could easily be incorrect and Columbine certainly could have been the origin of his obsession with mass murder. I agree that despite his ostensible indifference to Eric and Dylan, Lanza obviously researched Columbine extensively. As I said before, I do believe that his insinuation that he did not care about Columbine was at least partially pretense, however, the evidence shows that he studied many shootings in great detail so it's unclear whether Columbine was really a special interest or there was just more information available for him to pore over in this case. An unnamed officer involved in the investigation was quoted as saying of his mass murder spreadsheet that Lanza "had around 500 people on this sheet. Names and the number of people killed and the weapons that were used, even the precise make and model of the weapons. It had to have taken years. It sounded like a doctoral thesis, that was the quality of the research." He wrote in nine point font and when printed out, the spreadsheet was seven feet long and four feet wide.

What do you mean when you say that he was living in a world of his own creation?

I think I meant that he was trapped inside his autism. He didn't create that world, he was born into it, so I obviously mispoke.

So, hey, SSCC, I read your comments again. Are you suggesting that AL was a pedophile?

This only makes me hate Adam Lanza more than I already did. He killed innocent babies.

Yes, this documentary posted today was pretty sad but it was good to watch to understand how survivors can carry on after such a tragedy.

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Rose The Hat wrote:

So, hey, SSCC, I read your comments again. Are you suggesting that AL was a pedophile?

He was certainly interested in the topic of pedophilia and he was also suspected of being a pedophile, whether or not he actually was. I will admit that it's not something I will ever be completely sure of but after reading everything that was available, I came to the conclusion that he was probably not. As always, I could be wrong about it, but there does not seem to be any definitive proof that he was and I think that there are other reasons that he may have been obsessed with the topic. I don't have much confidence in either conclusion so it's not something I will rule out but also not something I will pretend to know was untrue.

Quote :

I think I meant that he was trapped inside his autism. He didn't create that world, he was born into it, so I obviously mispoke.

I see. I think that Adam had made some progress, at times, in working to include himself in the world of other people, but he couldn't seem to maintain it and he completely regressed in the end. Maybe part of the problem was that he could not figure out how to include other people in his world.

sororityalpha wrote:

Adam (Smiggles) apparently private messaged a member (Ivan) and told him that he had molested boys.

This is not exactly what Ivan said.
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] He also didn't seem to remember exactly what was said, or the context of the comment, aside from saying that nothing prompted it. Here is my opinion on that recollection.

Adam's "stream of semen" comment was interpreted as referring to children in a sexual way by a few people (including Ivan) when it clearly wasn't.

Another completely innocent comment Adam made about body hair was interpreted by Ivan to mean that Adam liked women without body hair, prompting him to again say that Adam was a pedophile, when Adam was implying that he did not understand why women remove their hair and he actually said somewhere else that it was one of many body modifications that was a "cultural delusion," clarifying that he probably did not approve of it.

Now, I'm not at all doubting that Adam said something inappropriate but I see this as a problem because one person's interpretation of what was said, which nobody now has access to, is going to be taken as fact and it's already being repeated in such a way that exaggerates what Ivan actually related to us. Again, it's entirely possible that Adam was a pedophile but there is other information suggestive of this possibility that would be more useful to point to than second-hand remembrances of deleted forum posts from years ago.

Some more information here:

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I just wanted to say, since quite a few of you seem to be taking him seriously, Lanza never told Ivan that he "enjoyed fondling little boys". That was Ivan being sarcastic. The extent of Ivan's conversations with Lanza were whatever they talked about on the public forum. Lanza did make posts the made him sound as if he were a pedophile but he never actually said he "fondled kids".

Anyone who was on Danny's forum (Super Columbine Massacre RPG), knows that Danny never deleted anything no matter how fucked up it was. The one and only rule on Danny's forum was you couldn't make fun of him. Other than that, he had this whole "freedom of speech" policy which basically meant you could tell other members to kill themselves and get away with it but when a forum member (AbuseTheSoul) said he was going to throw a rock at Danny (or something along those lines), he was banned. So if Lanza said he liked fondling kids, Danny wouldn't have deleted it and the only moderator at the time (Lporter101) wouldn't have deleted it either because when someone posted a link to Ivan's Facebook on the public board and Ivan asked Lporter101 to delete it, he said Danny didn't allow him to delete any posts.

Jenn wrote:

I just wanted to say, since quite a few of you seem to be taking him seriously, Lanza never told Ivan that he "enjoyed fondling little boys". That was Ivan being sarcastic. The extent of Ivan's conversations with Lanza were whatever they talked about on the public forum. Lanza did make posts the made him sound as if he were a pedophile but he never actually said he "fondled kids".

Anyone who was on Danny's forum (Super Columbine Massacre RPG), knows that Danny never deleted anything no matter how fucked up it was. The one and only rule on Danny's forum was you couldn't make fun of him. Other than that, he had this whole "freedom of speech" policy which basically meant you could tell other members to kill themselves and get away with it but when a forum member (AbuseTheSoul) said he was going to throw a rock at Danny (or something along those lines), he was banned. So if Lanza said he liked fondling kids, Danny wouldn't have deleted it and the only moderator at the time (Lporter101) wouldn't have deleted it either because when someone posted a link to Ivan's Facebook on the public board and Ivan asked Lporter101 to delete it, he said Danny didn't allow him to delete any posts.

Well, thank you very much for clearing this up. Honestly, there did not seem to be any hint of sarcasm in his responses to me and he did not correct me when I asked a followup question about the exact content and context but instead said that Adam's comment was unprompted, which is what made it so disturbing to him. It's good to have some clarification that this was just a rumor because the series of responses made it sound like he was relating a story that actually happened, which could no longer be verified or disproven. I understand that Ivan was not fond of Smiggles, even before he hurt anyone, but it's good to have the facts straight.

Yeah really. Thank you as well for clarifying what Ivan said about Adam.

But didn't Adam post on SBB forum (admin-desti) not Danny's forum?

Maybe sarcasm was the wrong word. He was being a smart ass. I guess he didn't really think people would believe that Lanza said he enjoyed fondling young boys. Ivan never liked Lanza, no. And even when he talked to him on the old forum he was being a smart ass towards him and saying things like he agreed with Lanza's views on pedophilia and there was nothing wrong with what Lanza was saying. I'm sure there's screenshots floating around somewhere of Ivan being rude and sarcastic towards Lanza.

And no, when Lanza talked to Ivan it was during late 2010 and into 2011. Desti did not take over until July, 2012 and Lanza had pretty much stopped posting by then. I joined in January, 2012 and the only reason I ever saw any of his posts is because I had been reading old threads. Other than that, I don't think he even posted one time in the 6 months I was on there.

What made me realize Lanza was Smiggles was an old thread I read back in February, 2012. Some members were arguing back and forth. And one member accused the other of sticking up for some underage fangirl because they wanted to have sex with her and the other member replied "I'm not Smiggles". And then Smiggles responded with a sad face. And then when I saw the name Smiggles in the Documents, I knew right away it was most likely him because the fact that he killed all these little children and remembering that people were making fun of him on Danny's forum because of his stance on pedophiles. So I always thought, and I still think, that he killed the little kids because of his attraction to them. I could be wrong though.

If Desti or Danny, even, really wanted to they could go back and get all the IP addresses and email addresses that Lanza posted from. Both of them claim there isn't a single back up to the old forum. I don't believe that though. I was even offering to pay money for the back up but nope, the entire thing just went to waste. All those years. All that research. All the contributions from hundreds of people is all gone and it's a shame because there is more information on Lanza out there but neither of them would ever give it up.

Jenn wrote:

And no, when Lanza talked to Ivan it was during late 2010 and into 2011. Desti did not take over until July, 2012 and Lanza had pretty much stopped posting by then. I joined in January, 2012 and the only reason I ever saw any of his posts is because I had been reading old threads. Other than that, I don't think he even posted one time in the 6 months I was on there.

What made me realize Lanza was Smiggles was an old thread I read back in February, 2012. Some members were arguing back and forth. And one member accused the other of sticking up for some underage fangirl because they wanted to have sex with her and the other member replied "I'm not Smiggles". And then Smiggles responded with a sad face. And then when I saw the name Smiggles in the Documents, I knew right away it was most likely him because the fact that he killed all these little children and remembering that people were making fun of him on Danny's forum because of his stance on pedophiles. So I always thought, and I still think, that he killed the little kids because of his attraction to them. I could be wrong though.

If Desti or Danny, even, really wanted to they could go back and get all the IP addresses and email addresses that Lanza posted from. Both of them claim there isn't a single back up to the old forum. I don't believe that though. I was even offering to pay money for the back up but nope, the entire thing just went to waste. All those years. All that research. All the contributions from hundreds of people is all gone and it's a shame because there is more information on Lanza out there but neither of them would ever give it up.

Thank you for the information. If there is more information out there, it would be of great interest to me. The police had records of his e-mails between 2011 and 2012 but they never released them. However, the topic of at least some of these e-mails was mass murder so this means that he was communicating with people outside of his family, most likely from the old forum, and it also means that there are people out there other than law enforcement who probably have copies of those communications.

I also wonder if the admins were ever contacted by the police.

According to the archived posts available, Lanza was posting much more frequently between August 2011 and late December 2011 than he had ever posted before. In fact, over two thirds of all of his posts were made in those 4.5 months on the forum. Then after posting daily, he abruptly stopped posting on December 30, 2011 (his last post was the sad face comment in response to once again being called a pedophile, which you mentioned above). He came back for a few days near the end of February 2012 and posted a handful of times before he disappeared for good.

If you match this time period to what is known of his real life, it kind of mirrors the activity on the forum. August 2011 is when Lanza went from playing DDR the theater for up to 4 hours per day, every Friday through Sunday to playing it for 8 to 10 hours per day, every Friday through Sunday. The employee who gave this information also said that when Lanza returned the the theater in February 2012 (it doesn't say when he stopped coming but implies that he did, since there was a return), he was more antisocial in that he did not play DDR with the girl, guy or theater employee that he used to play with anymore.

(Not that anyone actually asked about any of this but maybe someone will find it interesting.)

sscc wrote:

Jenn wrote:

And no, when Lanza talked to Ivan it was during late 2010 and into 2011. Desti did not take over until July, 2012 and Lanza had pretty much stopped posting by then. I joined in January, 2012 and the only reason I ever saw any of his posts is because I had been reading old threads. Other than that, I don't think he even posted one time in the 6 months I was on there.

What made me realize Lanza was Smiggles was an old thread I read back in February, 2012. Some members were arguing back and forth. And one member accused the other of sticking up for some underage fangirl because they wanted to have sex with her and the other member replied "I'm not Smiggles". And then Smiggles responded with a sad face. And then when I saw the name Smiggles in the Documents, I knew right away it was most likely him because the fact that he killed all these little children and remembering that people were making fun of him on Danny's forum because of his stance on pedophiles. So I always thought, and I still think, that he killed the little kids because of his attraction to them. I could be wrong though.

If Desti or Danny, even, really wanted to they could go back and get all the IP addresses and email addresses that Lanza posted from. Both of them claim there isn't a single back up to the old forum. I don't believe that though. I was even offering to pay money for the back up but nope, the entire thing just went to waste. All those years. All that research. All the contributions from hundreds of people is all gone and it's a shame because there is more information on Lanza out there but neither of them would ever give it up.

Thank you for the information. If there is more information out there, it would be of great interest to me. The police had records of his e-mails between 2011 and 2012 but they never released them. However, the topic of at least some of these e-mails was mass murder so this means that he was communicating with people outside of his family, most likely from the old forum, and it also means that there are people out there other than law enforcement who probably have copies of those communications.

I also wonder if the admins were ever contacted by the police.

According to the archived posts available, Lanza was posting much more frequently between August 2011 and late December 2011 than he had ever posted before. In fact, over two thirds of all of his posts were made in those 4.5 months on the forum. Then after posting daily, he abruptly stopped posting on December 30, 2011 (his last post was the sad face comment in response to once again being called a pedophile, which you mentioned above). He came back for a few days near the end of February 2012 and posted a handful of times before he disappeared for good.

If you match this time period to what is known of his real life, it kind of mirrors the activity on the forum. August 2011 is when Lanza went from playing DDR the theater for up to 4 hours per day, every Friday through Sunday to playing it for 8 to 10 hours per day, every Friday through Sunday. The employee who gave this information also said that when Lanza returned the the theater in February 2012 (it doesn't say when he stopped coming but implies that he did, since there was a return), he was more antisocial in that he did not play DDR with the girl, guy or theater employee that he used to play with anymore.

(Not that anyone actually asked about any of this but maybe someone will find it interesting.)

If Lanza's last post (his absolute last post) was in February, 2012 then that means he never made any posts on Shocked Beyond Belief. And if he never even logged into Shocked Beyond Belief then that website wouldn't have been saved into his hard drive. I'm not into Sandy Hook the way I am into Columbine. I added a sub-forum for it because a lot of other people are interested in it but I never really was. So I don't know if he did or didn't log into SBB. You just confirmed he never made a post on it but I don't know if he lurked between February and when he went on his own shooting in December. Desti could easily find out, but like I said that's a loss causes and I'm just beating a dead horse.

When Desti took it over on July 23, 2012 the entire website changed including the web address to it. It was a completely different forum. It bugs the absolute hell out of me when I see Coleman posting stuff like "Adam Lanza registers the name "Smiggles" at ShockedBeyondBelief.com on such and such a date in 2009". All he's doing is putting misinformation out there. Lanza never "registered" to Shocked Beyond Belief. He registered to Super Columbine Massacre RPG.

I realize that Desti just took the backup of RPG, slapped her own layout on to it (that everyone hated) and picked some name she pulled out of Eric's journal but it was NOT the same forum. And you'd think someone who wanted to put good research out there would know these things. I mean it's public knowledge. All you have to do is talk to any one of us that were around back then and there's still a bunch of us. Even on this forum alone. So why put the wrong information out there and having people believe that's the truth? Like do your research, man. When I see all the screenshots of Lanza's posts with the Shocked Beyond Belief layout and not the RPG layout it bothers me. If you really wanna see it how Lanza saw it, then at least get your screenshots off of the right website on Wayback machine. It's just as easy to get those posts off the forum Lanza actually posted them on which was RPG. He probably never even laid eyes on SBB. The reason people like Coleman think he posted on SBB was because on the outside it looked like the site was always SBB because it dated back to 2006. That's not the case though.

Anyway, I did have a point with all of this. You asked why Danny and Desti weren't questioned. Well for one, Danny's forum was long gone. I mean you could access it on the Wayback machine but I honestly don't think these investigators care enough to dig that deep into this stuff. I mean, they never even figured out Dylan and Eric actually were seen on the Cafeteria CCTV. So even if the name "Smiggles" was saved into the hard drive with Danny's forum as the URL, if they went to it, it was gone. And I don't know how quickly they got into doing the investigating on this but if it was after February 13, 2013 (I'm pretty sure it was the 13th) then Desti's forum was gone too. And I really don't think they were going to hunt down the people who had forums that no longer existed.

Desti lasted a whole 5 months running Shocked Beyond Belief and then she shut it down. That was when everyone started getting into a panic because everything was gone. All of it. 7 years worth of research. And then I created this forum on March 13, 2013 and Desti's forum remained closed until (I wanna say November, 2013) and then she opened it up as an archive. And it remained open until her 2 year domain was up in July 2014. Then it once again closed down and it's remained down since then. Like I said, a couple of us had tried to get a backup off of her or even pay for the backup but she wasn't having any of it. She finally just said she didn't have a backup of it and that it was gone forever. And Danny too said he didn't have a backup. So I don't think anything from that forum is gonna see the light of day ever again. And it's a shame because as horrible as the forum was, it was equally as good with research. And it could have been salvaged but instead we started over.

Desti never had the best interest of the research in mind. It was all about her hatred for Ivan and I and preventing me from buying RPG from Danny. As soon as she found out I was in the process of buying it, she went to him and convinced him to give it to her and because he had known her longer he trusted her more. She bought it, put zero effort into designing it the way the members wanted it. She banned Ivan and I permanently. I sent her a contact message asking if I could at least save private messages that Ivan had sent me that I had saved in my inbox but instead all I got was an IP ban. She started banning people left and right. One member (Mad Hatter) asked a question about me and was banned. Another member (Philosopher King) mentioned the word "Tumblr" and got a "warning". She created a section called "Fanfiction" just so she and her friends could make fun of people mainly (Michael Myers) when he posted his stories in the section. She said "I didn't seriously make this section for people to post in). It got bad. People were leaving the forum all the time and it basically turned into a place for her and her 4 friends who were as equally mean and miserable as she was. I knew it was a matter of time before the place went completely under. And it finally did.

And this really has nothing to do with it but when I was creating this forum I would think to myself that I was wasting my time. It took hours upon hours to design the layout. And I was thinking "why am I bothering?" because I thought it would never be as good as the old forum. And I figured most people would be so upset about losing their contributions on the old forum that they wouldn't wanna start over but I was wrong. We literally build this forum outta nothing. In the long run everything happens for a reason, I guess.

I know this has gotten completely off track but I honestly do think we could find out more about Lanza if we were able to get a backup of RPG. To be honest, that's really the only thing that bothers me now about the old forum being gone - that there could still be stuff to find out about Lanza.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Well, I was hoping that if you were on good terms with the owner of the SBB forum then you could have inquired one more time but based on what you just wrote, I guess that's not a realistic option at all.

In regard to Coleman misidentifying the forum name, I can tell you that the pdf archive of Smiggles' posts on Langman's site (which was compiled by Coleman) does have a footnote that explains the original name and the transfer of data, so at the very least, the information is now out there for researchers even if he originally had the wrong information.

sororityalpha wrote:

Smiggles profile:
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On the SCMRPG forum, it says that Lanza joined one day earlier than on the SBB forum. On SBB, it says he joined at around 1am on December 30, 2009 so maybe this comes down to a time zone discrepancy.

The post count is also different between the two versions of the forum. Langman discusses Smiggles' post count in terms of a total of 296, and because of this, he calculates that there are 35 posts where no copy remains after Smiggles redacted them. However, he also mentions that the original post count is 353 and this means that 57 of Lanza's earlier posts were probably deleted when there was a purge of inactive threads in January 2011. Too bad. It would be interesting to see them but even if someone does have a backup, I guess these purged posts would still be gone. This group of purged threads must also include the thread he made about his comprehensive list of mass murderers because apparently, that one was never copied over to the newer forum.

The date and time is like you said, just a difference in time zones. Danny was American and Desti was British, I think? So most likely "forum time" for Danny's forum was a USA time zone and her forum was England time.

As for the post count. I remember once Desti opened SBB and I went to the "Thoughts on the Shooting" section it had shrunk down considerably from what it was on RPG. She also deleted a ton of threads in the Miscellaneous section. Which I can understand wanting to clean the forum up. I clean this forum up all the time. Threads that aren't posted in. People arguing. Stuff like that but I try not to touch the core forums. Even pointless threads from eons ago, as long as they have responses in them, I will leave them on the forum.

And sorry but hell no, I've never been on good terms with Desti. I'm not on good terms with Danny either but I would have had a much better chance trying to get a backup off of him. I am good friends with his ex fiance. And when this whole thing was going down back in 2013, she was helping me try to get a backup. Apparently all Danny had was a backup of the year 2006 and that was gonna do me no good. So my friend (she was Danny's fiance at the time) contacted Desti herself and we thought that out of respect for Danny that maybe she'd give her the backup but nope, it did no good. She completely ignored her.

Then another forum member (MnM) started endlessly harassing her and trying to threaten her into giving him the forum. I found out later that MnM was also the reason she shut down the forum in the first place. He went crazy after she banned him. Then once I opened this forum he basically used my forum to make all these threads about Desti and calling her all kinds of names and acting like an absolute lunatic.

At one point in time one of the moderators from Danny's forum had died. Back when Cleaning Columbine and I were friends, he had told me that she had committed suicide and MnM kept posting all these private conversations he had with her where he had been calling her all kinds of names. I mean, I didn't get along with her either but she was dead and he wouldn't just leave it alone. Finally after about the 10th time of telling him to stop, I too banned him and that is why I ended up having strict rules about not being able to post personal pictures and personal links and things along those lines because some people are seriously just batshit insane.

About Lanza - Like I said, I was never really into his case all that much. I have heard of Langman only because of the guy that I've been talking to about the whole issue I have with Coleman. And he wanted to contact Langman about it. I've only ever visited Coleman's site and even a couple of days ago when I was reading it, he still had all this info about ShockedBeyondBelief and how Lanza joined there and whatnot.

So yea, I really did try to get the backup. Other people have tried too but I guess ultimately she knew I was behind it and there was just no way in hell she was ever going to let me have it. I don't believe for a second she doesn't have it saved. I do believe that Danny doesn't, only because he was willing to give me the 2006 backup and he isn't really the type of person who will do things just out of spite. And like I said I had my friend who he was marrying involved and I don't think he'd sit there letting her try to get in touch with Desti if he had it himself.

Jenn wrote:

As for the post count. I remember once Desti opened SBB and I went to the "Thoughts on the Shooting" section it had shrunk down considerably from what it was on RPG. She also deleted a ton of threads in the Miscellaneous section. Which I can understand wanting to clean the forum up. I clean this forum up all the time. Threads that aren't posted in. People arguing. Stuff like that but I try not to touch the core forums. Even pointless threads from eons ago, as long as they have responses in them, I will leave them on the forum.

It seems that at least some of Lanza's posts were deleted all the way back in 2011. Smiggles made a thread asking why half the posts were deleted and Danny (if he was columbin?) responded that he had to pay for bandwidth so he was deleting inactive threads where there had been no posts for 90 days. Because of this, I would guess that it probably wasn't the new owner that deleted his posts but who knows. A lot of off-topic threads where Lanza posted were found but maybe others were deleted.

Yes Danny Ledonne's username on the old forum was Columbin.

sscc wrote:

Jenn wrote:

As for the post count. I remember once Desti opened SBB and I went to the "Thoughts on the Shooting" section it had shrunk down considerably from what it was on RPG. She also deleted a ton of threads in the Miscellaneous section. Which I can understand wanting to clean the forum up. I clean this forum up all the time. Threads that aren't posted in. People arguing. Stuff like that but I try not to touch the core forums. Even pointless threads from eons ago, as long as they have responses in them, I will leave them on the forum.

It seems that at least some of Lanza's posts were deleted all the way back in 2011. Smiggles made a thread asking why half the posts were deleted and Danny (if he was columbin?) responded that he had to pay for bandwidth so he was deleting inactive threads where there had been no posts for 90 days. Because of this, I would guess that it probably wasn't the new owner that deleted his posts but who knows. A lot of off-topic threads where Lanza posted were found but maybe others were deleted.

Yea, Danny was "columbin". I didn't join until January, 2012 so I don't know what was deleted before that. I do know for a fact that Desti deleted stuff too because I tried to go back and save posts once she took it over and a lot of threads were completely gone. Mostly from "Miscellaneous" and "Thoughts on the Shooting".

And when I was there, I was told that Moderators weren't allowed to delete anything and that the forum had a free speech policy and nothing would be deleted. The only thing that I noticed that got removed when I was there was the thing I had already mentioned. When some user got into a fight with Danny and said he'd throw a rock or something at him. I don't remember exactly what he said but it was something towards Danny.

Here are some screenshots from Adam's inquiry on January 14 2011 to the 'pruning' of posts:

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As you can see below it happened sometime between January 1 2011 and January 14 2011:

January 1 2011, 49,379 Articles

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The forum was 'purged' then...

January 23 2011, 19,370 Articles

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The forum did bounce back pretty good though as you can see below:

9 1/2 months later - November 7 2011, 50,206 Articles

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8 months later & the last screenshot available - July 12 2012, 100,825 Articles

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Hoping to learn as much as I can about columbine, I have learned a lot of details thanks to CVA ( Columbine Video Archives). We had a shooting plot in Michigan in our county 3 teens plotted and planned to shoot the school up, they mentioned columbine and made videos like the basement tapes and mentioned Eric and Dylan serval times they were caught by law enforcement due to them texting another student that they are going to do it and it's not a joke, not much information has been leaked but one video was released today have to hear it for yourself if intrested search Lapeer county, Michigan school shooting at Zemmar Junior high, the 3 teens are facing life without parole and they are being held countable as adults the trial started a few days ago and there's not much defense glad they are pushing hard to make a example out of them. Always be aware it can happen in any school and that's sad for our children and us to have to always wonder about them being safe. Crazy! Glad to be able to join this forum thank you.

Welcome to the forum [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]!

I just read an article about the Michigan plot and I had some thoughts to share about the legacy of tragedies like Columbine and how parenting has changed in the internet age.

For me, it's just sickening. Sad and sickening that this is the state of the youth. I feel like so many children are growing up in a fairy land where they expect this utopia of equity (mostly from parents that don't prepare them for the real world or fail to discipline them properly for wrong behavior) and when they don't get what they expect from the world they are pathologically enraged. It seems like when relatively minor things happen to children these days they take it very differently than previous generations. Losing a friend, or being gossiped about, or getting in trouble for petty things can set a kid off the deep end. Next thing you know they're on Snapchat telling kids "not to go to school tomorrow". Wtf.

I think social media has also made the younger generations more narcissistic and has left them with very skewed perceptions of reality. Hours and hours of staring into screens and going outside less tend to have that kind of warped effect.

So many patently false things are being spread to kids today, esp. through the web. We live in a post-modernist age where everything is being deconstructed and devalued. It's almost virtually impossible for parents to protect kids from extreme content. Children are growing up vulnerable, with too many conflicting points of view in the mass media and few stable, grounded influences to keep them from harm.

Children and teens had double lives in the 90's too, but today? Forget it!

(Sorry for the intense response, I can get a little passionate about things).