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 Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric

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LPorter101
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PostSubject: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:54 pm

The Hitler quote is not hers - it's from the introduction by Andrew Solomon:

Andrew Solomon wrote:
“Eric was a failed Hitler; Dylan was a failed Holden Caulfield.”

But she does imply that she does blame Eric:

Susan Klebold wrote:
For years after the attack, I resisted blaming Eric for Dylan’s participation,” Sue writes. “Given what I have learned about psychopathy, I now feel differently. I find the violence and hatred seething off the page in Eric’s journals almost unreadably dark.”

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:20 pm


Sue repeatedly asserts that Dylan was responsible for his actions, but she highlights multiple factors enabling his descent. “We cannot dedicate ourselves to preventing violence if we do not take into account the role depression and brain dysfunction can play in the decision to commit it,” she writes. There is also Dylan’s co-conspirator. “For years after the attack, I resisted blaming Eric for Dylan’s participation,” Sue writes. “Given what I have learned about psychopathy, I now feel differently. I find the violence and hatred seething off the page in Eric’s journals almost unreadably dark.” Or as Andrew Solomon, author of “The Noonday Demon,” suggests in the book’s introduction: “Eric was a failed Hitler; Dylan was a failed Holden Caulfield.”

Sue also blames herself, in part. “Dylan did not learn violence in our home,” she stresses. Her fault was not amorality or indifference, she says, but ignorance. “Dylan did show outward signals of depression,” Sue writes. “. . . If we had known enough to understand what those signs meant, I believe that we would have been able to prevent Columbine.”

**It sounds like she blames Eric, Dylan, and herself

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:33 pm

Quote :
“Dylan did not learn violence in our home,”

But he sure as shit didn't learn it at school, oh no, anything but that. Not like being a belittled social outcast and seeing a world where his intellect made him a pariah would possibly make him what he became or add to his rage in any conceivable way.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:45 pm

This is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. Dylan shared a lot of Eric's same feelings and beliefs!!!!!!!
They had a lot of the same outlook on life, the world, people.
Why does Sue or anybody else think they formed such a bond with each other?
Plus Dylan tried to blow people up and did execute people himself. IT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM!!!! DYLAN IS NO BETTER THAN ERIC!

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This is ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. Dylan shared a lot of Eric's same feelings and beliefs!!!!!!!
They had a lot of the same outlook on  life, the world, people.
Why does Sue or anybody else think they formed such a bond with each other?
Plus Dylan tried to blow people up and did execute people himself. IT MAKES ME WANT TO SCREAM!!!! DYLAN IS NO BETTER THAN ERIC!

I completely agree.

While it's "understandable" that his own mother would do something like this in a certain context, why Cullen does it, and why SO many others do it is truly beyond the scope of my comprehension.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:31 pm

She blames Dylan. She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:22 am

It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:05 am

From her NPR interview in which she talks about watching the Basement Tapes, Sue sort of gives the impression that, while horrified with Dylan's actions and words on the tapes, she views it as more of a performance for Eric and the camera, rather than her real, beloved little Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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It was Dylan's idea. It was an idea he wanted to do with a girl, not Eric. That is why he called it 'NBK'. And another thing, Eric did not meet Mark Manes until he AND DYLAN went through Phil Duran to buy a Tec 9 that was actually for Dylan. So how did Eric approach him about murder before Dylan?

I mean seriously, if people are going to make flat out lies, they should at least make it sound believable.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
She blames Dylan.  She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.

I think SK has come to terms with a lot of things, but still feels Dylan wouldn't have done this without Eric's influence. It may be a cop out, but typical as Dylan was her baby.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It seems like she's still struggling today as to who she blames.

She will say in one section how Dylan was absolutely a murderer, and in the next implies that he was a victim of his own pathology and the whole plan was Eric's.  She says that Eric had tried to get others to participate in plans of mass destruction with him, but Dylan was the only one who bit.  

I thought the plan was originally Dylan's idea?  
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It was Dylan's idea. It was an idea he wanted to do with a girl, not Eric. That is why he called it 'NBK'. And another thing, Eric did not meet Mark Manes until he AND DYLAN went through Phil Duran to buy a Tec 9 that was actually for Dylan. So how did Eric approach him about murder before Dylan?

I mean seriously, if people are going to make flat out lies, they should at least make it sound believable.

Caught that as well.. I was thinking "Mark Maynes"? Unless Eric thought DK might flake & brought it up to Maynes (and Mayne's shared that with the Feds) it's still highly unlikely to have happened & it couldn't have been prior to Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
She blames Dylan.  She says he was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

That's blaming Dylan.

I think SK has come to terms with a lot of things, but still feels Dylan wouldn't have done this without Eric's influence.  It may be a cop out, but typical as Dylan was her baby.

It's not really her fault because it's basically just what the experts told her (that Eric was the violent psychopathic influence that led to their destruction) but I feel like it's more than a cop out here. She ignored the facts and made them fit that understanding, instead of putting things together to find the truth of the situation. We can all pretend that Dylan, who was suicidal and exceedingly unhappy for a long time and having delusions or homicidal thoughts privately would have been just fine if he never met the evil psychopathic sadist that Eric was. And maybe the massacre wouldn't have happened like it did, but Dylan was in his own serious trouble that had nothing to do with Eric. Maybe it's not up to Sue Klebold to make that point, because it's probably hard to accept as a mother, but I feel like she's not helping at all by printing the words "Dylan did not have the profile of killer." As much as she referred to him as a murderer, this seems to suggest a basic innocence about him that Eric had corrupted and I don't know if that's really accurate. Eric may have enhanced and enabled it, but Dylan was already going there in his mind and he was not getting any useful treatment even though it must have been clear that something was wrong. Basically, if they're going to blame Eric for his mental deterioration into a killer, then they also need to blame the adults around him for not noticing the effect that Eric's friendship was having.

Does anyone know if either family tried to keep the two of them apart for any length of time? Especially after the van break-in, when there was clear proof that together, the two of them were making made stupid, reckless, anti-social choices?
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:06 pm

I'm pretty sure it was Dylan's idea and he planted that seed in Eric's mind, it all snowballed from there. I don't think Eric thought about mass shooting before Dylan mentioned it, but was fairly dissatisfied with the world, I also think Eric got fascinated by the idea and then pushed it harder than Dylan later.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:48 am

I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:49 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think it's kind of ridiculous for the blame to be entirely shifted onto Eric's shoulders. Doesn't Sue remember when Dylan was intimidating people at a restaurant? The fact he harassed kids in the special education program so badly they didn't even want to show up at school? The fact he approached classmates at a service station brandishing a shotgun mere months before the shooting? The fact he wrote about wanting to go on a shooting rampage 6 months before Eric even created his "journal"?

No, Dylan was not innocent. I'd argue he was more "dangerous" than Eric.


No half-assed report written by a pseudo intellectual "psychologist" is going to convince me otherwise.

She doesn't shift the blame entirely onto Eric's shoulders. She says Dylan was "a mass murderer," that she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she is the "mother of a murderer" who "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and a "vicious killer" and that she is the "mother of a killer."

Unlike LPorter's Hitler quote, these are all quotations directly from Sue Klebold.

I think some of you did not read the same book I did.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:22 pm

She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer. But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own. That's the upsetting part.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting? I can see why you think it might be wrong. But why upsetting?
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:07 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting?  I can see why you think it might be wrong.  But why upsetting?
Because in the book Sue only focuses on Dylan speaking of suicide. She failed to mention Dylan was having homicidal thoughts. She failed to mention Dylan wanted to go on a shooting spree with people other than Eric. She failed to mention that Dylan brought up killing kids first, and it was his shooting spree, no one else. She failed to mention Dylan was very sadistic, and wrote plans in Eric's planner. She failed to mention Dylan's yearbook entry to Eric about killing people. Lastly, she failed to mention that Dylan on seperate occasions wrote "Have Fun" on the day to kill people.

Or she didn't fail to mention it...she just is still in denial.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:10 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
She does state several times that Dylan was a murderer.  But she also alludes to the fact that she thinks he was persuaded by Eric and that Dylan wouldn't have done any of it on his own.  That's the upsetting part.  

Why is that upsetting?  I can see why you think it might be wrong.  But why upsetting?

Because that's not something we'll ever know, so making that assumption is pointless. If you want to look at the journals as evidence though, Dylan was the one to come up with the idea of NBK, so I'm unsure as to why anyone would feel that he wouldn't have carried it out without Eric when it was his idea to begin with.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:39 pm

I felt it I should post this again here because it's my response to this thread as well:
Every time I read it, the book gets worse.
Eric is blamed for the majority of what happened.He just is.
All kinds of excuses and explanations are made for Dylan but some of it makes him look worse to those who have followed this A long time.
Like Dwayne Fuseiler saying that "Eric went to school and didn't care if he died while Dylan just wanted to die but didn't care if others died too."
HUH? That makes Dylan look even worse!
It's worse to kill out of that kind of callousness and apathy than if you are sincerely and honestly pissed off.


Eric never asked his parents to buy him a gun.
Eric didn't refuse to go to therapy saying"I don't need any help."
Eric didn't tell his parents how trustworthy he was 4 days before it happened.

And Andrew Solomon who is incredibly patronizing and smug in his writings said in the foreword"The death of someone who has committed a great crime is for the best."
Obviously, hes talking about Dylan.Why would Sue have that in her book about her son?

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


Because in the book Sue only focuses on Dylan speaking of suicide. She failed to mention Dylan was having homicidal thoughts.

There is an entire chapter in the book called "Pathway to Violence." Did you even read the book?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


She failed to mention Dylan was very sadistic.

She refers to him as a "sadistic killer." That is a direct quote from the book.  She also calls him a "vicious killer."

Not to mention, she calls him "a mass murderer," says she is "the mother of a murderer," that "he committed an atrocity" and "participated in an atrocity," that she "raised a murderer," that he is a "sadistic killer" and that she is "the mother of a killer."

How is that denial?
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:01 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:39 am

Quote :
To me, his death was one manifestation of suicide. If I were to explain it to a child, I would say that Dylan became very sick in his brain and his thinking wasn't the same, and because of that sickness he killed himself and other people.

How would she explain it to the parents of the kids her son killed?

"Gee, sorry, my kid was sick in the head. What could I do?"

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Quote :
To me, his death was one manifestation of suicide. If I were to explain it to a child, I would say that Dylan became very sick in his brain and his thinking wasn't the same, and because of that sickness he killed himself and other people.

How would she explain it to the parents of the kids her son killed?

"Gee, sorry, my kid was sick in the head. What could I do?"


That seems to be the message, along with Eric being just plain bad and more to blame.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:06 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:43 pm

Sue tried to downplay a lot of what Dylan did...at the end of the day Dylan had a choice
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:32 pm

The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:05 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.
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PostSubject: Re: Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric   Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:16 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The more I read about SK the more she rubs me the wrong way.
I've said it in another thread but Sue comes across as very insincere to me.

Multiple times in the book and her interviews she repeats the same trite and cliché metaphors. Her use of flowery language really distracts from what she's saying and to me makes it sounds like a piece of literature, a story. And in my opinion further adds to the idea that she deep deep down is still in denial

What do you think of the lengths she goes to to blame and blast Eric?
She says she doesn't blame him but everything else she says proves that she does and sees him as one thoroughly bad seed that led her baby into destruction and death.

I think she's treading on dangerous ground, because lets face it, the only people who will ever truly understand her are other school shooter / mass shooter relatives. She's further ostracising the Harris family, as far as I'm concerned. We can all point fingers and blame Wayne and Kathy, but I feel Sue's book is going reignite the hatred towards Wayne and Kathy so they can't move on. I wouldn't be surprised if Sue was the one encouraging them not to come forward.

Why was Sue the one who gave permission for the tapes to be destroyed. I think she knows it would show Dylan's true colours and destroy everything she's done to help perpetuate the media myth of Dylan being an "innocent" participant.

I also believe her book is going to ruffle feathers in the mental health community, she's blaming it on depression specifically. Depression, let alone other psychiatric disorders are far misunderstood as it is. Now, people are going to be stigmatising people even more thinking their capable of mass murder simply for having depression. Depression does not cause someone to shoot up their classmates, Sue!


Sidenote: I'm skeptical about Sue's motives, the incidences surrounding her divorce and the fact that Tom hasn't commented at all, to me speaks a thousand words.

I agree with some of what you said. I think Tom doesn't speak out simply because of what Sue said. He is internalizing his pain/possibly trying to forget what happened. I think he wants to remember Dylan the way he was growing up instead of the way he died. I don't blame him for that. Sue seems to be one of those people that thinks everything is logical and needs to be dealt with so she is trying to share her feelings and thoughts. My parents are very similar. My dad prefers to keep everything inside and my mom is the opposite. I do think Sue kept a lot of things inside of herself for a long time. When I saw her on 20/20 shaking like a leaf and holding back tears I didn't see a person who was trying to just make a penny or stir up trouble...she is a victim too and she deserves a right to share her story too. I don't agree with all of what is in her book but I did enjoy reading it.
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Sue's book: "Eric was a failed Hitler"; she DOES blame Eric
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