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 Dylan's mental state

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NotYourRobot



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PostSubject: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:18 pm

I've seen it discussed on here so many times and I've been afraid to bring it up in fear that many of you would disagree or hate on me, but nonetheless here it goes: I have to question whether Dylan was indeed having second thoughts. From the 911 tape of the library he seems to be having a ball as he's killing but it feels more like he's psychicing himself out, like some people start to babble
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've seen it discussed on here so many times and I've been afraid to bring it up in fear that many of you would disagree or hate on me, but nonetheless here it goes: I have to question whether Dylan was indeed having second thoughts. From the 911 tape of the library he seems to be having a ball as he's killing but it feels more like he's psychicing himself out, like some people start to babble

In the sense you think he's almost trying to convince himself?

I mean, I get where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent, but why exactly do you think he was having second thoughts. Please elaborate.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:21 pm

I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:22 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:50 pm

Has it been confirmed Dylan was the person who said when they entered the library: "You're still with me right?"
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Has it been confirmed Dylan was the person who said when they entered the library: "You're still with me right?"

only speculation, nothing official. i am not sure who said this...
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:17 pm

I've never heard about the n"You're still with me right?" I wonder if it's true and who said it and why. I think it'd be so fascinating to be inside E&D's minds in the months before and during the shooting
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:20 pm

Why do I feel like they might have been...perhaps nervous, or jittery, amidst the massacre. Perhaps in the beginning maybe - which almost aligns to why they couldn't kill anyone they had a conversation/interacted with

I'm not sure if anyone understands where I'm getting at
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:28 pm

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They killed Rachel Scott I think Dylan helped set up the lighting in her plays or something .
Dylan also wrote in his journal that NBK will be so nerve wracking, seconds will seem like minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I meant anyone they interacted with on that day. Those who were "spared"
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:24 pm

In the months leading up to it, I am sure they both probably had second thoughts. Eric had said a few different times that if things were different it may have changed/been prevented. And Dylan had also said some things hinting around that he didn't even intend on being alive much longer (that he was going to commit suicide well before 4/20). He had been talking of suicide for about 2 years prior to 1999). But once they started shooting, that was it, there was no turning back.

I do often wonder, when they seen just how much of a failure their plan was, if they thought it wasn't even worth it (Eric, in particular)? All that hard work and planning just to have their bombs fail and then Eric breaks his nose. And then once they got into the school, the only place there were any students for them to shoot were the few hiding in the Library. Yes, they took 13 lives but they had wanted to kill hundreds. They wanted to blow up the Cafeteria and have the Library above come tumbling down on top of it. They wanted to equal or outdo McVeigh. They mocked other school shooters who didn't get a high body count.

I believe Dylan was just living it up and having the time of his life. All he wanted was to finally die. I believe Eric was probably devastated at the outcome though. In those last few seconds of life, I truly believe that Eric thought to himself that it was a waste and he probably thought they'd just be considered jokes because of how terribly the whole plan failed. In my opinion, Eric did not die with any kind of satisfaction whatsoever. Like he said in the few weeks before the massacre, he relates everything he sees and hears to 'NBK'. This was the day he lived for and look at how horrible it turned out. Dylan was just counting down the minutes until he could finally die and be in the afterlife where I think he believed he'd find everlasting eternal love.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in your reply when you mention how Eric and Dylan didn't kill anyone they interacted with, I've never thought about that. You're absolutely right! Very interesting! Thank you for your post :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] @liqourvamp he interacted with Isaiah and he got killed? I'm confused by what your theorizing
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I believe Dylan was just living it up and having the time of his life. All he wanted was to finally die. I believe Eric was probably devastated at the outcome though. In those last few seconds of life, I truly believe that Eric thought to himself that it was a waste and he probably thought they'd just be considered jokes because of how terribly the whole plan failed.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes, interesting to also note that Eric disclosed he was having homicidal thoughts on his mental health self-evaluation (how that admission was overlooked, I'll never know) but not suicidal ones. I also believe that Eric didn't necessarily want to die, but knew that realistically he'd have to if we wanted to go through with his murderous plan without being jailed. I recall in his writings that he did fantasize about committing mass murder then escaping to somewhere "exotic" (like "New Zeland" lol, can't even spell the name of his dream destination), but obviously that was pure fantasy.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:37 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I got this theory and learnt of it through a post on this forum which really got me thinking and agreeing - what I meant was they couldn't kill anyone they talked with that day because it started to humanize the particular person making it harder to off them instantly; Evan Todd for example. For Isaiah's case, it wasn't really a back and forth convo instead it was more of like taunting him? My point is that when they looked these people in the eye, it made E&D feel small again? if you know what I mean? what separates them from being who they've always been in school and who they were on 4/20 is simply a Gun. On that day, they wanted to be their alter ego, badass, but deep down, they were still the "nobodies".
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:53 am

I don't know about the theory of not trying to kill anyone they spoke to - it wasn't for lack of trying with Lance.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:49 am

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they were killers but they were also children like their victims...
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and bree, evan and valeen? there's a huge difference between a few exchanges and a conversation. I really never thought about this theory until I read it here and tried to analyze it. Perhaps, the ones I named were just lucky.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:48 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

John Tomlin. I have seen the argument that E&D didn't shoot anyone they significantly talked to but I honestly think there wasn't a true rhyme reason or algorithm to who they killed or didn't kill.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they were killers but they were also children like their victims...
I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I don't see how that has anything to do with what I am saying? Whether they were children or not is completely irrelevant and no excuse. They were not some little kids who picked up Daddy's gun thinking it was a toy and took it to school and shot their friends by accident. This also wasn't a couple of teenagers who were cast out, constantly picked on and picked on until one day they snapped and went on a 'moment of madness'. These were highly intelligent 17 and 18 year old young men who planned (for over a year) to blow up their high school and hoped to kill 500 - 600 of the people inside of it.

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and bree, evan and valeen?
Bree is technically the only one they didn't shoot. Evan and Valeen were both shot at and Valeen was hurt quite badly. My point is that Dylan and Eric DID shoot and kill some of the people they spoke to and some of them they didn't. That was what they PLANNED on doing. They wanted to kill who they wanted. They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it.

At the end of the day, some people they spoke to and shot them, some people they spoke to and didn't shoot them. There is no big mystery, rhyme or reason behind who they shot or didn't shoot. It was all random. They shot whoever they felt like it and the ones they didn't feel like shooting, they didn't. It is as simple as that.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:08 pm

Another question that is sort of related, maybe I'm just projecting or seeing what I want to see but doesn't Eric's body language seem a bit dejected after they go down to the cafeteria to check on their failed bombs? And Dylan still seems to be in badass soldier game mode?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:26 pm

I think the bullying of other kids comes from the fact they were bullied themselves. A very good analogy or comparison can be a molester molesting a kid. More than likely that kid is going to end up molesting somebody himself and so on...

Just like with musicians/actors, everybody has faults. Tupac Shakur and Kurt Cobain are admired by millions but they both had faults. Tupac shot at off duty cops and sexually abused a woman in a hotel room or even if that isn't true, he still stood by and watched somebody else do it without doing anything to stop it. Kurt Cobain wasn't even that great of a guitar player and was by far one of the worst drug addicts you'll ever see.

But one thing remains constant, the message. Within that message there are millions who connect. Not necessarily connect with what went down that day but connect with who these kids were (bottom of the social ladder, lack of respect, getting picked on etc.)

For the most part when people admire them, they're not admiring what they did, they're just admiring who they were because they see themselves in them. If that makes any sense...
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:19 pm

I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.

There are a few Cullen followers here that subscribe to the idea that they were not bullied. I don't doubt they were bullied and also bullied other kids at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "My point is that Dylan and Eric DID shoot and kill some of the people they spoke to and some of them they didn't. That was what they PLANNED on doing. They wanted to kill who they wanted. They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it." Hmm, I see.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I don't see how that has anything to do with what I am saying? Whether they were children or not is completely irrelevant and no excuse. They were not some little kids who picked up Daddy's gun thinking it was a toy and took it to school and shot their friends by accident. This also wasn't a couple of teenagers who were cast out, constantly picked on and picked on until one day they snapped and went on a 'moment of madness'. These were highly intelligent 17 and 18 year old young men who planned (for over a year) to blow up their high school and hoped to kill 500 - 600 of the people inside of it.

Yes! Not sure that they were "highly intelligent", though. I see a lot of people using the word "intelligent" to describe the boys, which is weird, considering they constantly contradicted themselves, especially Eric who, by his own admission, was a hypocrite (his elaboration on that was something well-thought-out along the lines of "oh fucking well"). Not to mention their god awful spelling that's almost laughable to note when reading their ramblings about how they're so "intelligent".

It didn't actually take a lot of intelligence to do what they did. It's just unusual and horrific, hence the infamy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They thought they were carrying out 'Natural Selection'. Well, carrying around a gun and picking and choosing who to kill is not NATURAL selection. There is not one thing 'Natural' about it.

This. So much. Again, Eric's and Dylan's stupidity rearing its ugly head.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:56 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've seen lots of people on here lately saying E&D were never bullied? Are you effing kidding me?? I don't doubt they bullied other kids. I'm sure they did plenty of times in their senior and junior year. Once they started the idea of NBK I'm sure they said to hell with everything and dished out their anger at times. But it's very ignorant to say they never were bullied and they were always the bully.

There are a few Cullen followers here that subscribe to the idea that they were not bullied.  I don't doubt they were bullied and also bullied other kids at all.  

Who? Can you quote someone?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:58 am

The original post that started this thread is spot-on.

When I hear the recording of Eric and Dylan in the library I hear two kids performing for each other and trying to play a part that is increasingly slipping from their grasp.

If they were really having such a great time they wouldn't have stopped abruptly or let so many people walk.
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