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 Dylan's mental state

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:48 pm

If they have to psych themselves out and carry on for one another, wouldn't it be such a devastating irony that they didn't have the guts to tell one another not to do it that day? and if I were to name which between the two that probably didn't want it to happen deep down, it'd be Eric.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:39 pm

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Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.

Same here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Once the second that very first shot was fired, it sealed both their death warrants and there was no going back.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
I think both of them probably at some stages throughout the morning had second thoughts (briefly).

That's why they had the decoy bomb, left the stuff lying around at home etc - to minimalise the chances of turning back.

I expect they may have even had them when the cafeteria bombs didn't go off for a few seconds then Eric snapped out of it. "GO GO" and the first shot was fired - that's when there were no more second thoughts after that.

It really gives me chills thinking about that spilt second when the past the point of no return.

Same here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Once the second that very first shot was fired, it sealed both their death warrants and there was no going back.

And the reality of it was… it really didn't have to be.
I guess as well, even if they did think to just stop, they were still under the assumption the bombs we going to go off ...at some point anyway…

I wonder if it Eric/Dylan had done it alone they could have turned away, like a few others have said before, I think they didn't want to "let each other down"
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was…. Embarassed

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was…. Embarassed


Ain't that the truth!

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:31 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in the "WHY it happened" we can shadow/forget what IT actually was…. Embarassed


Ain't that the truth!

Reading over my posts I see it… "taking the massacre out of the equation…" / "regardless of the incident…" / "imagine Columbine didn't happen and consider…"

That's all very well, Astrospace92, but we CAN'T disregard it, because that one day pales the previous 18 years of their existence into insignificance!

It's a though one, because you can't explain the massacre without analysing E & D and you can't analyse E & D without the massacre.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:09 pm

I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:23 pm

Quote :
They were nice to the people who really knew them.

Were they being nice when they manipulated Robyn into buying them their murder weapons?
Were they being nice when they committed the massacre, knowing full well that it would hurt everyone that knew them?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:29 pm

They liked Robyn. They paid for it she got it because she was 18 they weren't. They said if it wasn't her it was going to be someone else. And to leave all there friends alone bcos it's not any of their fault. I bet Robyn still likes Dylan after everything.
I'm not going to bother answering the second question. Your not grasping anything I'm trying to explain before.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:46 pm

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They liked Robyn. They paid for it she got it because she was 18 they weren't. They said if it wasn't her it was going to be someone else. And to leave all there friends alone bcos it's not any of their fault. I bet Robyn still likes Dylan after everything.

They were absolutely aware that she would get in trouble because of this.  They didn't care because they were selfish assholes who put their own interests ahead of everyone else. Actual friends who actually have strong bonds do not do this.

Quote :
I'm not going to bother answering the second question. Your not grasping anything I'm trying to explain before.

The compassion of Eric Harris, in all its glory:

"Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room."

My sympathy for Eric and Dylan begins and ends with the fact that they were hurting inside so badly that they wanted to die.  That is it, and it is not sympathy that burns very brightly considering that there are so many people who are also hurting inside who don't resort to violence.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:54 pm

I sympathise for the people they could've been, not how they turned out. I'm sure it's the same for their friends and family.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:07 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "My sympathy for Eric and Dylan begins and ends with the fact that they were hurting inside so badly that they wanted to die. That is it, and it is not a sympathy that burns very brightly considering that there are so many people who are also hurting inside who don't resort to violence.”

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "I sympathise for the people they could've been, not how they turned out. I'm sure it's the same for their friends and family.”

Very well put you guys.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.


Squid,I thank you deeply for this post.What you said here is what has always been in my heart towards E &D and what I've tried to express.
I too, have lived through some of the things you have and experienced them for a lot of years along with feeling the same way E &D did and wanting to do the same thing they did with a close friend of mine.It took a lot to come out the other side.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:59 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] glad to hear it. Hope life is treating you much better.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:26 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] what do you mean
Lance Kirklin looked up at Dylan and asked him for help, Dylan said 'Sure, I'll help you' and then shot him in the face. I don't know, but to me, that doesn't sound like someone who has a problem shooting people they spoke to.

And there was another boy in the Library. I'm not exactly sure which one but he said something like 'Haven't you done enough?" to Dylan and Eric and they gave him some smart ass remark and then shot and killed him as well.

These were ruthless murderers. These were killers who shot and killed innocent children. These were killers who ran around laughing and making fun of their victims before they shot them. How anyone can come to the conclusion that they couldn't kill anyone they spoke to is beyond me. They called people wimps, they called people 4 eyes, they mocked their victims who screamed in agony for help. They called Isiah a 'nigger' and tried to pull him out from under a table for Christ's sake and ruthlessly murdered him as he cried for his Mother. These are not Gods, they are not Heroes, they did not have any second thoughts as they were carrying their murders out and they most certainly had no problem shooting someone they spoke to.

This is something we all should read when we ever start feeling sympathetic for E/D. Sometimes, I feel, we forget about all these terrible, terrible things mentioned here; and we should never lose sight of that while discussing, analyzing, and considering the Columbine case.

Thank you, guys! Refreshing to see amongst all the E&D apologists.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'll always have sympathy and compassion for E&D no matter what people say. I know full well what they did all the pain they caused. I don't think people will truly understand where they are coming from unless you lived and experienced the same. Here's a quote:
"When this life makes you mad enough to kill
That's Rock Bottom
When you want something bad enough to steal
That's Rock Bottom
When you feel like you've had it up to here
'Cause you're mad enough to scream but you're sad enough to tear"
I've lived through depression and being suicidal since I was 15. I'm 25 now. I don't see D&E as JUST psycho mentally ill cowardly murders as most people see them as. They were nice to the people who really knew them. They let some go while they could have killed them. They did this bcos those people treated them nice like they were humans. It's this difference that makes them human. And are worthy of compassion and sympathy. And I am getting sick of all the sick hate towards them. Adios.

You speak like Eric, Dylan and yourself are the only ones who've suffered from crippling depression for years. I myself was chronically depressed and suicidal for years, funnily enough since around the age of fifteen, too.

As someone said, I will have sympathy for the people they never grew to be, but certainly not for the people they ultimately became, and depression or not, nothing justifies what they did in their final hours.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:43 am

"You speak like Eric, Dylan and yourself are the only ones who've suffered from crippling depression for years."
I don't know why you think that and I don't care. Funnily enough your assumptions are wasting my time. Now goodnight.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:09 am

Can you just answer this one question honestly: would you still have compassion for Eric and Dylan if the one person you love the most in the world was in that library, hiding and trembling under a desk in terror before they caught the attention of E&D because of something as simple as their skin color, were called a hateful slur, yanked at by Dylan in a likely attempt to arrange a more public execution as they fearfully pleaded "no, no no" whilst others silently looked on in horror, only to then have a shotgun slug fired by Eric (yes, fired from that same powerful shotgun you see in Rampart Range) rip through their chest, causing immense and fatal damage to them?

Can you honestly say if that happened to someone you loved that you would still have compassion for Eric and Dylan and that they had a valid point for doing that? (you mentioned you believed that Eric and Dylan had valid points for murdering their victims in another thread).
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:16 am

If I answered this question thoroughly I'd have to explain why I think E&D had a valid point to get across. But to keep it short, as I've said before the very few people who I love are immensely outcasts themselves. It is most likely E&D would understand them and would have been at least good acquaintances at school. My loved ones would have shown them respect and kindness before NBK and I believe E&D would have spared them. If they did so happen to die from cross fire, etc. I can make peace with that. Everyone dies one time or another. I don't think death is the ultimate karma. I don't think death is a bad thing it's a natural thing. And I don't believe in karma do to speak. Gtg now.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:04 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If I answered this question thoroughly I'd have to explain why I think E&D had a valid point to get across. But to keep it short, as I've said before the very few people who I love are immensely outcasts themselves. It is most likely E&D would understand them and would have been at least good acquaintances at school. My loved ones would have shown them respect and kindness before NBK and I believe E&D would have spared them. If they did so happen to die from cross fire, etc. I can make peace with that. Everyone dies one time or another. I don't think death is the ultimate karma. I don't think death is a bad thing it's a natural thing. And I don't believe in karma do to speak. Gtg now.

And what if they never even had the opportunity to show respect and kindness to E&D? Surely you're aware that E&D didn't even know most of their victims? Would you be at peace if someone you loved who wasn't acquainted with Eric or Dylan at all (thus never had the opportunity to be on friendly terms with them) was violently and deliberately killed by either one of them?

I also have issues with some of your other statements not exactly making sense in context of your argument but would prefer to focus on the above scenario. Genuinely interested in receiving a straightforward response from you.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:12 am

So I have a question for both sides on this thread.

Let's say a bunch of E&D's friends decided to go the library that day. Zack, Nate, Erik V, Mike etc....do you think they would have shot them or spared them?

I am not sure either way. I don't know if they would have let a giant group of 6 or 7 guys go...but I don't know if they would be able to shoot them.
They thought they could handle the impersonal nature of blowing their friends up, but could they look into their faces and shoot them? I don't know.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:45 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If I answered this question thoroughly I'd have to explain why I think E&D had a valid point to get across. But to keep it short, as I've said before the very few people who I love are immensely outcasts themselves. It is most likely E&D would understand them and would have been at least good acquaintances at school. My loved ones would have shown them respect and kindness before NBK and I believe E&D would have spared them. If they did so happen to die from cross fire, etc. I can make peace with that. Everyone dies one time or another. I don't think death is the ultimate karma. I don't think death is a bad thing it's a natural thing. And I don't believe in karma do to speak. Gtg now.

You do know they had full intentions to actually blow up their school and kill over 200 people, right?  You do realize they told their FRIENDS "IF you live" in the basement tapes, right?  For every person they "spared" they murdered someone in cold blood.  Your defense of them has become borderline Tumblr fangirlish,  and you back up your positions and "debate" like a sassy 13 year old who doesn't get their way.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So I have a question for both sides on this thread.

Let's say a bunch of E&D's friends decided to go the library that day.  Zack, Nate, Erik V, Mike etc....do you think they would have shot them or spared them?  

I am not sure either way.  I don't know if they would have let a giant group of 6 or 7 guys go...but I don't know if they would be able to shoot them.  
They thought they could handle the impersonal nature of blowing their friends up, but could they look into their faces and shoot them?  I don't know.

I don't think they would have done it.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If I answered this question thoroughly I'd have to explain why I think E&D had a valid point to get across.

Speaking of which, while I personally condemn every single thing about Columbine, I have read serious academic research that argued that E/D's valid point was a political statement about the dehumanization of public high schools, and the act itself was a political act of defiance against the larger US educational system, ad nauseum. That's not to say I agree with that, but it's interesting to note that some academics have had the same conversations that we are having here in this forum. I suppose one could come up with all sorts of "valid" points about why E/D did what they did.

I see it simply as two mentally ill youth who both, to certain degrees, wanted to die, and in the process say a resounding "FUCK YOU" to as many people as possible before cashing in their chips...this includes institutions, family, friends, acquaintances, and people unknown to them for the foreseeable future as long as their atrocities are recounted and remembered.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:46 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You do know they had full intentions to actually blow up their school and kill over 200 people, right?  You do realize they told their FRIENDS "IF you live" in the basement tapes, right?  For every person they "spared" they murdered someone in cold blood.  Your defense of them has become borderline Tumblr fangirlish,  and you back up your positions and "debate" like a sassy 13 year old who doesn't get their way.

Thank you. It's interesting to hear someone try and justify the deaths of 13 innocent people with their own warped logic.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So I have a question for both sides on this thread.

Let's say a bunch of E&D's friends decided to go the library that day.  Zack, Nate, Erik V, Mike etc....do you think they would have shot them or spared them?  

I believe that all of them would have been spared. They let John Savage go and they weren't even exactly friends with him.
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bubbles



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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Speaking of which, while I personally condemn every single thing about Columbine, I have read serious academic research that argued that E/D's valid point was a political statement about the dehumanization of public high schools, and the act itself was a political act of defiance against the larger US educational system, ad nauseum. That's not to say I agree with that, but it's interesting to note that some academics have had the same conversations that we are having here in this forum. I suppose one could come up with all sorts of "valid" points about why E/D did what they did.


That is interesting, but their hate wasn't simply bound to their high school. It was for humanity in general, so not exactly sure if that theory stacks up. And in relation to the "valid points" for them committing the massacre, I guess everyone has their own personal reasons for doing what they do, but did they actually have proper grounds to kill and harm these people? I think people looking at this from a reasonable perspective would say no.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I see it simply as two mentally ill youth who both, to certain degrees, wanted to die, and in the process say a resounding "FUCK YOU" to as many people as possible before cashing in their chips...this includes institutions, family, friends, acquaintances, and people unknown to them for the foreseeable future as long as their atrocities are recounted and remembered.

Yes, I very much agree with this statement.


Last edited by bubbles on Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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em81



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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:03 pm

[quote="bubbles"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I believe that all of them would have been spared. They let John Savage go and they weren't even exactly friends with him.

I agree. Dylan also spared Tim Castle, if I am right he was a friend of one of their friends (can´t remember his name)
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't think death is a bad thing it's a natural thing.
Being shot to death or blown up as a teenager is not natural. It's murder. A natural death is when your body shuts down from natural causes.

Off Topic: To everyone posting in this thread, Please try and be civil to each other. This thread is beginning to get a little out of hand. Not everyone has the same views and/or opinions and you don't have to be mean to people to get your point across.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:40 pm

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I said I think DEATH is a natural thing. I did not say anything about HOW you die. I had to keep my response short. I was trying to touch upon every other comment previously on the thread as well. Mostly to the other user talking about bad karma.
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