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 Dylan's mental state

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PaintItBlack
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:09 pm

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No one learned anything after the columbine massacre.

I don't think that Eric and Dylan's message was "Everyone should be nicer to everyone else."  I'm pretty sure that they wanted Hell on Earth.  The revolution of the dispossessed or whatever is never going to happen because the vast majority of bullied kids have a problem with murder.  You are almost entirely alone in your thinking.  Sorry.

I don't think it was the message they were really trying to express but it's what anyone who looks at this situation trying to find answers should probably be thinking about. People are constantly belittling "outsiders" and making snap judgments about everyone. People get pleasure out of taking others down a notch. People (especially teenagers but also adults) are cruel and always ready to make you feel like a fool for going your own way in life. A little kindness would go a long way.

We don't need to learn only what Eric and Dylan wanted us to learn. It's a fact that they both felt chronically lonely and that they were ostracized and ultimately attacked the people in their community. Some people like to point out that bullying wasn't a constant thing but the entire social climate was ugly, unfair and mean and no one cared or really did anything to change it. There is not a direct cause and effect relationship here but it was a very significant factor and it's something that can't be ignored.

Whether or not anyone likes it, no one can deny that tons of people still relate to Eric and Dylan's feelings and experiences. Doesn't that bother you? They have been so hurt by this world that they can understand (or even support) wanting to murder all of your classmates? Does that not matter at all or have you just decided that they are bad people and deserve to be hurt, just like most people have concluded about Eric and Dylan? It's safe to show disdain, accuse them of being mentally ill or treat them badly because they are "not like you."

People are cruel because they're taught that it's okay to be cruel to certain people. Eric and Dylan just took it to an extreme. They saw that for all the talk of love and compassion, people rarely back that up with their actions. We can learn to be nicer to people because of stuff like Columbine if we choose to, regardless of what Eric and Dylan believed themselves. I don't blame the people who were unkind to Eric/Dylan for their homicidal behavior but I don't absolve them of their inconsiderate and hurtful actions just because Eric and Dylan chose to do terrible things in the end. One thing does not cancel out the other because we are ALL responsible for ALL of our actions, not just Eric and Dylan.

I just look at the way people attack each other all the time, always trying to get the upper hand and prove how shitty the other guy really is, and it sometimes makes me wonder if compassion is even possible. It's hard to accept that people can express sympathy for corpses (either E/D or their victims) but they can't have sympathy for one another. What does it take for people to understand the impact of their words and actions on other people, good or bad? Okay, maybe that's enough for now.


What a wonderful post.I only wish this forum had a like button.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:27 pm

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Congratulations [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] you are now banned.

No "'nuff" said. E&D DID NOT KILL ANYONE 6-7 YEARS OF AGE.  That is disgusting. They killed 15-47 years of age. Well old enough to be aware of there actions and how they affect other people. And their role in society.
But like I've been trying to explain E&D were not just out to kill their peers. Our 13 people. They were out to kill the school system and destroy society's frame work. Adam Lanza's dumbass did not try to accomplish anything in those deaths. Except what a stupid cunt he was.

Good. I'd rather be banned than read the shit you infect the board with.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:38 pm

I came off as more hostile to Radioactive_Clothing in one of my posts than I meant to.
Opening up like this about such deeply painful years and humiliating memories is so emotional for me, then to be told that you must be exaggerating what happened or that "I'd never want to do what E &D did, no matter what happened to me." or "I'd never have any sympathy or love for E &D, no matter how people treated me ever" is frustrating because you are pouring your heart out and almost nobody gets it.
But I probably came off differently than I meant to.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I get you man. I completely feel your pain.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thank you thank you for this post
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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No one learned anything after the columbine massacre.

I don't think that Eric and Dylan's message was "Everyone should be nicer to everyone else."  I'm pretty sure that they wanted Hell on Earth.  The revolution of the dispossessed or whatever is never going to happen because the vast majority of bullied kids have a problem with murder.  You are almost entirely alone in your thinking.  Sorry.

I don't think it was the message they were really trying to express but it's what anyone who looks at this situation trying to find answers should probably be thinking about. People are constantly belittling "outsiders" and making snap judgments about everyone. People get pleasure out of taking others down a notch. People (especially teenagers but also adults) are cruel and always ready to make you feel like a fool for going your own way in life. A little kindness would go a long way.

We don't need to learn only what Eric and Dylan wanted us to learn. It's a fact that they both felt chronically lonely and that they were ostracized and ultimately attacked the people in their community. Some people like to point out that bullying wasn't a constant thing but the entire social climate was ugly, unfair and mean and no one cared or really did anything to change it. There is not a direct cause and effect relationship here but it was a very significant factor and it's something that can't be ignored.

Whether or not anyone likes it, no one can deny that tons of people still relate to Eric and Dylan's feelings and experiences. Doesn't that bother you? They have been so hurt by this world that they can understand (or even support) wanting to murder all of your classmates? Does that not matter at all or have you just decided that they are bad people and deserve to be hurt, just like most people have concluded about Eric and Dylan? It's safe to show disdain, accuse them of being mentally ill or treat them badly because they are "not like you."

People are cruel because they're taught that it's okay to be cruel to certain people. Eric and Dylan just took it to an extreme. They saw that for all the talk of love and compassion, people rarely back that up with their actions. We can learn to be nicer to people because of stuff like Columbine if we choose to, regardless of what Eric and Dylan believed themselves. I don't blame the people who were unkind to Eric/Dylan for their homicidal behavior but I don't absolve them of their inconsiderate and hurtful actions just because Eric and Dylan chose to do terrible things in the end. One thing does not cancel out the other because we are ALL responsible for ALL of our actions, not just Eric and Dylan.

I just look at the way people attack each other all the time, always trying to get the upper hand and prove how shitty the other guy really is, and it sometimes makes me wonder if compassion is even possible. It's hard to accept that people can express sympathy for corpses (either E/D or their victims) but they can't have sympathy for one another. What does it take for people to understand the impact of their words and actions on other people, good or bad? Okay, maybe that's enough for now.

Eric and Dylan were perhaps at their smartest with with their wish for kick-starting a revolution idea.

I think the Basement Tapes were created for the purpose of preying on those wronged and vulnerable (ie PaintItBlack's friend).

It's sad and frustrating that they don't seem to realise that Eric and Dylan were just trying to use them as a tool to do their will ( like getting Robyn to buy the guns). Ultimately, they didn't give a fuck about themselves and just wanted to cause as much mayhem as possible, and are to this day still fooling people to do their will.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I came off as more hostile to Radioactive_Clothing in one of my posts than I meant to.
Opening up like this about such deeply painful years and humiliating memories is so emotional for me, then to be told that you must be exaggerating what happened or that "I'd never want to do what E &D did, no matter what happened to me." or "I'd never have any sympathy or love for E &D, no matter how people treated me ever" is frustrating because you are pouring your heart out and almost nobody gets it.
But I probably came off differently than I meant to.

That's fine, you can be as hostile as you wish. I don't recall saying you exaggerated your experiences though.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:49 pm

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I just look at the way people attack each other all the time, always trying to get the upper hand and prove how shitty the other guy really is, and it sometimes makes me wonder if compassion is even possible. It's hard to accept that people can express sympathy for corpses (either E/D or their victims) but they can't have sympathy for one another. What does it take for people to understand the impact of their words and actions on other people, good or bad? Okay, maybe that's enough for now.

This is such a wonderful post.  Bullying is really not something exclusive to teens.  It's something that occurs well into adulthood. And if it's something you experienced as teen, then you don't just grow up and get over it.  Studies show that teens who were bullied have significantly higher rates of psychiatric problems in adulthood.  My personal belief is that so many people lack compassion and empathy.  They are just so quick to hate those they don't understand or jump on the underdog Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:51 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I get you man. I completely feel your pain.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thank you thank you for this post


Thank you Squid.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:54 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I came off as more hostile to Radioactive_Clothing in one of my posts than I meant to.
Opening up like this about such deeply painful years and humiliating memories is so emotional for me, then to be told that you must be exaggerating what happened or that "I'd never want to do what E &D did, no matter what happened to me." or "I'd never have any sympathy or love for E &D, no matter how people treated me ever" is frustrating because you are pouring your heart out and almost nobody gets it.
But I probably came off differently than I meant to.

That's fine, you can be as hostile as you wish. I don't recall saying you exaggerated your experiences though.


No, it was bubbles who gave the impression she was saying that when she said something like I have a hard time believing that most of the school bullied you and your friend?Did you know most of the people in the school?
If she didn't actually mean that, what she said gave that impression.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I came off as more hostile to Radioactive_Clothing in one of my posts than I meant to.
Opening up like this about such deeply painful years and humiliating memories is so emotional for me, then to be told that you must be exaggerating what happened or that "I'd never want to do what E &D did, no matter what happened to me." or "I'd never have any sympathy or love for E &D, no matter how people treated me ever" is frustrating because you are pouring your heart out and almost nobody gets it.
But I probably came off differently than I meant to.

That's fine, you can be as hostile as you wish. I don't recall saying you exaggerated your experiences though.


No, it was bubbles who gave the impression she was saying that when she said something like I have a hard time believing that most of the school bullied you and your friend?Did you know most of the people in the school?
If she didn't actually mean that, what she said gave that impression.

Ok, fair enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I ask you to not ban [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] let him keep saying "fuck you" to me and let him keep coming up with false accusations about me and let him keep twisting my words around. And show everyone what an un-constructive, closed minded BULLY he is. If I believed in karma it would be at times like this.
Twisting your words around? I'm literally talking direct quotes from you.  And no, I'm not a bully.  What karma do you wish would go in effect?  You want me to get gunned down?  Quit tip-toeing and just say what's actually on your mind.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:33 pm

This thread is almost certain to get locked again.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't think it was the message they were really trying to express but it's what anyone who looks at this situation trying to find answers should probably be thinking about. People are constantly belittling "outsiders" and making snap judgments about everyone. People get pleasure out of taking others down a notch. People (especially teenagers but also adults) are cruel and always ready to make you feel like a fool for going your own way in life. A little kindness would go a long way.

You don't think I know this already?  Why do I need Eric and Dylan to remind me that a lot of people in this world are cruel? It's not some brilliant epiphany.  Answer me this: why should Eric and Dylan be the ones to show us the way?  I'm getting a little tired of this accusation about how if I don't feel that much sympathy for Eric and Dylan, then all of a sudden I don't care about bullying.  There are millions of other bullied kids who are more deserving of my compassion than Eric and Dylan.  I feel like I've typed that sentence before on this forum, and I'm sure I'll type it again eventually.

Quote :
Whether or not anyone likes it, no one can deny that tons of people still relate to Eric and Dylan's feelings and experiences. Doesn't that bother you?
They have been so hurt by this world that they can understand (or even support) wanting to murder all of your classmates?
 
It bothers me that they don't point to Phoebe Prince's suicide as an example of what happens when bullying gets out hand.  Why not support her instead?

Quote :
Does that not matter at all or have you just decided that they are bad people and deserve to be hurt, just like most people have concluded about Eric and Dylan? It's safe to show disdain, accuse them of being mentally ill or treat them badly because they are "not like you."

Who on this forum is showing disdain for bullied kids?  I slag on Eric and Dylan because they murdered people, not because they were bullied.


Quote :
People are cruel because they're taught that it's okay to be cruel to certain people. Eric and Dylan just took it to an extreme. They saw that for all the talk of love and compassion, people rarely back that up with their actions. We can learn to be nicer to people because of stuff like Columbine if we choose to, regardless of what Eric and Dylan believed themselves. I don't blame the people who were unkind to Eric/Dylan for their homicidal behavior but I don't absolve them of their inconsiderate and hurtful actions just because Eric and Dylan chose to do terrible things in the end. One thing does not cancel out the other because we are ALL responsible for ALL of our actions, not just Eric and Dylan.

I'd rather people learn to be nice because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared that someone is going to shoot them.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:12 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't think it was the message they were really trying to express but it's what anyone who looks at this situation trying to find answers should probably be thinking about. People are constantly belittling "outsiders" and making snap judgments about everyone. People get pleasure out of taking others down a notch. People (especially teenagers but also adults) are cruel and always ready to make you feel like a fool for going your own way in life. A little kindness would go a long way.

You don't think I know this already?  Why do I need Eric and Dylan to remind me that a lot of people in this world are cruel? It's not some brilliant epiphany.  Answer me this: why should Eric and Dylan be the ones to show us the way?  I'm getting a little tired of this accusation about how if I don't feel that much sympathy for Eric and Dylan, then all of a sudden I don't care about bullying.  There are millions of other bullied kids who are more deserving of my compassion than Eric and Dylan.  I feel like I've typed that sentence before on this forum, and I'm sure I'll type it again eventually.

Quote :
Whether or not anyone likes it, no one can deny that tons of people still relate to Eric and Dylan's feelings and experiences. Doesn't that bother you?
They have been so hurt by this world that they can understand (or even support) wanting to murder all of your classmates?
 
It bothers me that they don't point to Phoebe Prince's suicide as an example of what happens when bullying gets out hand.  Why not support her instead?

Quote :
Does that not matter at all or have you just decided that they are bad people and deserve to be hurt, just like most people have concluded about Eric and Dylan? It's safe to show disdain, accuse them of being mentally ill or treat them badly because they are "not like you."

Who on this forum is showing disdain for bullied kids?  I slag on Eric and Dylan because they murdered people, not because they were bullied.


Quote :
People are cruel because they're taught that it's okay to be cruel to certain people. Eric and Dylan just took it to an extreme. They saw that for all the talk of love and compassion, people rarely back that up with their actions. We can learn to be nicer to people because of stuff like Columbine if we choose to, regardless of what Eric and Dylan believed themselves. I don't blame the people who were unkind to Eric/Dylan for their homicidal behavior but I don't absolve them of their inconsiderate and hurtful actions just because Eric and Dylan chose to do terrible things in the end. One thing does not cancel out the other because we are ALL responsible for ALL of our actions, not just Eric and Dylan.

I'd rather people learn to be nice because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared that someone is going to shoot them.

I agree with your points, and I'm also getting a little annoyed that people are STILL saying that Columbine was caused by bullying, or that bullying was the leading driving factor behind Columbine.

It really irks me when people take a very complicated historical event caused by two very complex people with different minds than what is considered the norm, and completely and utterly dismisses it as being caused by bullying. That is so stupid. I don't mean to break the flaming rule, but come on now.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:38 am

this thread's on fire,dog.
I understand both sides,but truth has been said:most 'columbiners'(this word alone is cringeworthy) girls feel sympathy for E&D because they're cute white teens who acted badass and had 'love sensibility'(as on the also cringeworthy Dylan letters).I doubt if they were obese greasy nerds who looked hispanic or black or anything they would receive all this sympathy.

And I've had a lot of struggles in my school years,so I can relate to being at the bottom of the popularity scenario.
But E&D weren't vigilantes or leaders of an outcast revolution.They killed innocent people.It's almost like they chose the weakest to kill,and spared real cunts like Rocky Hoffschneider.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
this thread's on fire,dog.
I understand both sides,but truth has been said:most 'columbiners'(this word alone is cringeworthy) girls feel sympathy for E&D because they're cute white teens who acted badass and had 'love sensibility'(as on the also cringeworthy Dylan letters).I doubt if they were obese greasy nerds who looked hispanic or black or anything they would receive all this sympathy.

And I've had a lot of struggles in my school years,so I can relate to being at the bottom of the popularity scenario.
But E&D weren't vigilantes or leaders of an outcast revolution.They killed innocent people.It's almost like they chose the weakest to kill,and spared real cunts like Rocky Hoffschneider.


I don't find the word cringeworthy. I like it as it is a a quick way to identify yourself as a member of the subculture.

You really think this is what all this is about? Some good looks?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:14 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
this thread's on fire,dog.
I understand both sides,but truth has been said:most 'columbiners'(this word alone is cringeworthy) girls feel sympathy for E&D because they're cute white teens who acted badass and had 'love sensibility'(as on the also cringeworthy Dylan letters).I doubt if they were obese greasy nerds who looked hispanic or black or anything they would receive all this sympathy.

And I've had a lot of struggles in my school years,so I can relate to being at the bottom of the popularity scenario.
But E&D weren't vigilantes or leaders of an outcast revolution.They killed innocent people.It's almost like they chose the weakest to kill,and spared real cunts like Rocky Hoffschneider.


I don't find the word cringeworthy. I like it as it is a a quick way to identify yourself as a member of the subculture.

You really think this is what all this is about? Some good looks?

They raise a valid point. Not saying that you or other people in this thread personally favour Eric or Dylan for their appearance, but you can't really deny that Eric and Dylan have garnered a lot of attention because of their looks. A quick visit to tumblr or a browse through instagram will make this apparent. Of course, they weren't exactly male models, but they were decent-looking guys. I've noticed that Seung-Hui Cho doesn't receive nearly the same amount of sympathy, attention or admiration that Eric and Dylan receive, despite the fact that he claimed in his manifesto he was bullied like Eric and Dylan reportedly were and there were also accounts from people who said he was bullied.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:24 am

Fuck it.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:28 am

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No "'nuff" said. E&D DID NOT KILL ANYONE 6-7 YEARS OF AGE.  That is disgusting. They killed 15-47 years of age. Well old enough to be aware of there actions and how they affect other people.  

Yep, Kelly Fleming, that quiet, unassuming girl who had recently moved from Arizona to Colorado with her family 18 months before the shooting and wrote poetry totally should've known how her actions affected Eric and Dylan. You're right, Eric didn't shoot that shotgun slug in her back for nothing. As soon as you become a teenager, you are no longer innocent by default.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't think it was the message they were really trying to express but it's what anyone who looks at this situation trying to find answers should probably be thinking about. People are constantly belittling "outsiders" and making snap judgments about everyone. People get pleasure out of taking others down a notch. People (especially teenagers but also adults) are cruel and always ready to make you feel like a fool for going your own way in life. A little kindness would go a long way.

You don't think I know this already?  Why do I need Eric and Dylan to remind me that a lot of people in this world are cruel? It's not some brilliant epiphany.  Answer me this: why should Eric and Dylan be the ones to show us the way?  I'm getting a little tired of this accusation about how if I don't feel that much sympathy for Eric and Dylan, then all of a sudden I don't care about bullying.  There are millions of other bullied kids who are more deserving of my compassion than Eric and Dylan.  I feel like I've typed that sentence before on this forum, and I'm sure I'll type it again eventually.

Quote :
Whether or not anyone likes it, no one can deny that tons of people still relate to Eric and Dylan's feelings and experiences. Doesn't that bother you?
They have been so hurt by this world that they can understand (or even support) wanting to murder all of your classmates?
 
It bothers me that they don't point to Phoebe Prince's suicide as an example of what happens when bullying gets out hand.  Why not support her instead?

Quote :
Does that not matter at all or have you just decided that they are bad people and deserve to be hurt, just like most people have concluded about Eric and Dylan? It's safe to show disdain, accuse them of being mentally ill or treat them badly because they are "not like you."

Who on this forum is showing disdain for bullied kids?  I slag on Eric and Dylan because they murdered people, not because they were bullied.


Quote :
People are cruel because they're taught that it's okay to be cruel to certain people. Eric and Dylan just took it to an extreme. They saw that for all the talk of love and compassion, people rarely back that up with their actions. We can learn to be nicer to people because of stuff like Columbine if we choose to, regardless of what Eric and Dylan believed themselves. I don't blame the people who were unkind to Eric/Dylan for their homicidal behavior but I don't absolve them of their inconsiderate and hurtful actions just because Eric and Dylan chose to do terrible things in the end. One thing does not cancel out the other because we are ALL responsible for ALL of our actions, not just Eric and Dylan.

I'd rather people learn to be nice because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared that someone is going to shoot them.

Beautiful. My thoughts exactly.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
You are causing a major uproar within our community and I do not know if it's intentional or these things you have been saying are truly how you feel. And while, yes, I do believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I encourage people to share them and ask the community to respects others opinions, but there gets to a point where a line needs to be drawn and we are at that line.

The things that you are posting on this board are inappropriate, disrespectful and just vicious. In running this board, I know that it may be extremely tough for victims, survivors and anyone affected at Columbine to see that such a site exists and here we do our best to protect their privacy and try to take them into consideration when we make posts/discuss them on this board. Coming onto this board and saying you wish that Dylan and Eric would have blown up the entire school, stating that innocent 15 year old children are old enough to know they are 'not innocent' and that Isiah deserved to be brutally murdered because he 'fit a quota' are extremely disrespectful to the victims and survivors who actually went through Columbine. And while you are entitled to feel whatever you want about Columbine, I draw the line and am not going to allow you to continue to talk like this on my forum.

We have people on this forum who were actually IN the Library and to this day, they still struggle with mental health issues. Victims and survivors visit our board as guests on a regular basis and I REFUSE to let them see someone on a forum that I own talking about how they wish Dylan and Eric would have blown them up. I'm sorry, but no, if these are the kind of discussions you want to participate in, this forum and this community is not the place to do it in.

I try the best that I can to be fair in the decisions that I make on my forum but I am not going to ban respected members of this community, some who have been here for years and have never caused any problems whatsoever, for sticking up for the people who were viciously murdered by Dylan and Eric and for sticking up for the other people you said you wished they blew up.

As for the other members in this thread, none of you will be receiving a written warning and none of you will be banned. Any warnings you received prior to today, will be removed. I hope all of you will stay in the community and will continue to feel comfortable sharing your thoughts on the board.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
These people who defend what Eric and Dylan did because they felt like they were wronged in the same ways at high school really do sicken me.

I sometimes sit at home and shake my head in disbelief at some of the things written.


Yeah, well its so easy to say that if you didn't live through what I did and what my best friend did. It's so easy to set upon a high horse and say "I'd NEVER want to do that no matter how badly I was treated by how many at my school.I'd never feel or think that way." if you didn't go through it.
If you went through what we did you might understand the desire to  go crazy on the people at our school that we had.And I no longer condone what E &D did but I do sympathize with why they did it and I remain  very sympathetic to them.
If you didn't go through it, you can't know how or why I feel the way I do and other Columbiners out there do. Disagree all you want but that is the way I see it.

You're very sympathetic towards them without even knowing for sure the extent of their bullying. That tells me that people like you are just fishing for reasons to sympathise, any reason at all. I'm very sorry to hear what you went through and agree that bullying can cause rash thoughts/actions especially when you're a teenager, but there comes a time when you grow up and realise those thoughts were down mostly to the fact that you were an angry teenager at the time. If those sinister thoughts travel with you into well into adulthood, I reckon there's a problem.


I've been a Columbiner since Day 1. I know everything you do and maybe more.I really don't need you telling me that I'm fishing for anything.I have my strongly backed up opinions and beliefs just like you do.
I cannot even tell you  what I have went through to come out the other side.
I have only shared a small portion of the story of my best friend and I.
There is a lot more to what happened to us, what we went through.

I have grown up.But that kind of long term abuse and humiliation is not easy to forget or get over.
Now that I have lived to be more than a decade older than them,I realize what kids E&D actually were.

First off, I am honestly horrified to read what you have written about what you went through. I thought I went to a pretty tough school in New York, and it was NOTHING as you describe your experience. As a mental health professional, I hope that there is some kind of positive, post-traumatic growth aspect to this story that has made you a stronger person and/or allowed you to help others.

I don't think I am going out on a limb by stating that I don't think E/D went through anything as brutal as you and your friend did. Not even close to that. By all accounts, and from what we know, I don't think what they dealt with was anything much different than many of us have had to face, but I don't think it was anything as brutal as what you describe here.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:55 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I'd rather people learn to be nice because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared that someone is going to shoot them.

Amen!

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

They raise a valid point. Not saying that you or other people in this thread personally favour Eric or Dylan for their appearance, but you can't really deny that Eric and Dylan have garnered a lot of attention because of their looks. A quick visit to tumblr or a browse through instagram will make this apparent. Of course, they weren't exactly male models, but they were decent-looking guys. I've noticed that Seung-Hui Cho doesn't receive nearly the same amount of sympathy, attention or admiration that Eric and Dylan receive, despite the fact that he claimed in his manifesto he was bullied like Eric and Dylan reportedly were and there were also accounts from people who said he was bullied.

Of course, because Cho was Asian and not attractive, and Lanza was bizarre looking (to say the least). BUT E/D, oh my, they were cuties indeed. NOT. Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

They raise a valid point. Not saying that you or other people in this thread personally favour Eric or Dylan for their appearance, but you can't really deny that Eric and Dylan have garnered a lot of attention because of their looks. A quick visit to tumblr or a browse through instagram will make this apparent. Of course, they weren't exactly male models, but they were decent-looking guys. I've noticed that Seung-Hui Cho doesn't receive nearly the same amount of sympathy, attention or admiration that Eric and Dylan receive, despite the fact that he claimed in his manifesto he was bullied like Eric and Dylan reportedly were and there were also accounts from people who said he was bullied.

Of course, because Cho was Asian and not attractive, and Lanza was bizarre looking (to say the least). BUT E/D, oh my, they were cuties indeed. NOT. Rolling Eyes

LOL first thought in 1999 after i watched the news and saw their pics:"fucking crazy, ugly guys!" but hey everyone should have his/her own taste. and of course their pics were terrible.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:22 am

Why are you making this about who looks better???
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:31 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why are you making this about who looks better???

We aren't, some of us are just making some candid observations. Murder is an ugly, ugly thing regardless of the perpetrator.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:36 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
this thread's on fire,dog.
I understand both sides,but truth has been said:most 'columbiners'(this word alone is cringeworthy) girls feel sympathy for E&D because they're cute white teens who acted badass and had 'love sensibility'(as on the also cringeworthy Dylan letters).I doubt if they were obese greasy nerds who looked hispanic or black or anything they would receive all this sympathy.

And I've had a lot of struggles in my school years,so I can relate to being at the bottom of the popularity scenario.
But E&D weren't vigilantes or leaders of an outcast revolution.They killed innocent people.It's almost like they chose the weakest to kill,and spared real cunts like Rocky Hoffschneider.


I don't find the word cringeworthy. I like it as it is a a quick way to identify yourself as a member of the subculture.

You really think this is what all this is about? Some good looks?

They raise a valid point. Not saying that you or other people in this thread personally favour Eric or Dylan for their appearance, but you can't really deny that Eric and Dylan have garnered a lot of attention because of their looks. A quick visit to tumblr or a browse through instagram will make this apparent. Of course, they weren't exactly male models, but they were decent-looking guys. I've noticed that Seung-Hui Cho doesn't receive nearly the same amount of sympathy, attention or admiration that Eric and Dylan receive, despite the fact that he claimed in his manifesto he was bullied like Eric and Dylan reportedly were and there were also accounts from people who said he was bullied.


I think it is a valid pint. And yes,that is a part of it for a lot because they were good looking guys.I think it's only a fraction of the whole though.Many Columbiners put a lot of time, energy, effort and emotion into this and I think that must be about a lot more than good looks.
I can't speak for anyone else but Cho seemed so mentally ill that I'm surprised he could even function at all.
Same with Adam Lanza.I'm sorry for them but that is as far as I can go there.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:52 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
this thread's on fire,dog.
I understand both sides,but truth has been said:most 'columbiners'(this word alone is cringeworthy) girls feel sympathy for E&D because they're cute white teens who acted badass and had 'love sensibility'(as on the also cringeworthy Dylan letters).I doubt if they were obese greasy nerds who looked hispanic or black or anything they would receive all this sympathy.
(my bolding)

Truer words have never been written before in this forum.

What we have in this forum, I think, is Columbiners vs. Columbine researchers (I deign to use the word "enthusiast" for obvious reasons). But there's no reason for us to argue, belittle, or be mean to anyone. I suppose it all boils down to why and what we hope to get out of this forum. I am looking for more info on the case, stuff that hasn't been considered much before (see [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]'s stickied thread "Dylan's Journals", e.g.), and more enlightenment on this "pet" subject of mine in my professional work as well.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's mental state    Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Radioactive_Clothing wrote:
These people who defend what Eric and Dylan did because they felt like they were wronged in the same ways at high school really do sicken me.

I sometimes sit at home and shake my head in disbelief at some of the things written.


Yeah, well its so easy to say that if you didn't live through what I did and what my best friend did. It's so easy to set upon a high horse and say "I'd NEVER want to do that no matter how badly I was treated by how many at my school.I'd never feel or think that way." if you didn't go through it.
If you went through what we did you might understand the desire to  go crazy on the people at our school that we had.And I no longer condone what E &D did but I do sympathize with why they did it and I remain  very sympathetic to them.
If you didn't go through it, you can't know how or why I feel the way I do and other Columbiners out there do. Disagree all you want but that is the way I see it.

You're very sympathetic towards them without even knowing for sure the extent of their bullying. That tells me that people like you are just fishing for reasons to sympathise, any reason at all. I'm very sorry to hear what you went through and agree that bullying can cause rash thoughts/actions especially when you're a teenager, but there comes a time when you grow up and realise those thoughts were down mostly to the fact that you were an angry teenager at the time. If those sinister thoughts travel with you into well into adulthood, I reckon there's a problem.


I've been a Columbiner since Day 1. I know everything you do and maybe more.I really don't need you telling me that I'm fishing for anything.I have my strongly backed up opinions and beliefs just like you do.
I cannot even tell you  what I have went through to come out the other side.
I have only shared a small portion of the story of my best friend and I.
There is a lot more to what happened to us, what we went through.

I have grown up.But that kind of long term abuse and humiliation is not easy to forget or get over.
Now that I have lived to be more than a decade older than them,I realize what kids E&D actually were.

First off, I am honestly horrified to read what you have written about what you went through. I thought I went to a pretty tough school in New York, and it was NOTHING as you describe your experience. As a mental health professional, I hope that there is some kind of positive, post-traumatic growth aspect to this story that has made you a stronger person and/or allowed you to help others.

I don't think I am going out on a limb by stating that I don't think E/D went through anything as brutal as you and your friend did. Not even close to that. By all accounts, and from what we know, I don't think what they dealt with was anything much different than many of us have had to face, but I don't think it was anything as brutal as what you describe here.


Thank you.
The bullying was so bad that I've had people outright call me a liar saying it couldn't have been that bad or express doubts that it was as bad as I said it was.I don't know what else to say except to relate my experience as it happened.That's why I get offended when people make a sweeping judgment on all Columbiners or look down on us as bad people because that's not always the case at all.
Their bullying probably wasn't as bad as mine but I think it was bad enough in the sense that their bullying and alienation was where it all started for them.
It's not a justification but if they had not been bullied and alienated I believe they would not have started on the road to doing this.People will disagree but that's what I believe.
If you look at the history of almost every shooter how many have been well liked and popular?I can only think of one possible match.Jaylen Fryberg.But I don't know enough about his case to say for sure.

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