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 Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?

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PostSubject: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:00 pm

Simply for their total body counts? They set out to kill 200+ people, but only managed to kill 13 overall, in contrast to Cho who killed 32 and Lanza who killed 27.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:03 pm

Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:16 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:26 pm

They wouldn't be jealous. They had a different plan with how NBK was meant to go down. Cho and Lanza strictly intended to commit a mass shooting. I'm actually very fascinated with Cho's success with killing many, and yet he's so rarely talked about which I feel is because he's asian and not a conventionally attractive white guy or whatever. Cho didn't waste anytime walking to each and every classroom during lessons and killing as many as he could immediately.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:30 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:39 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:40 pm

I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho or Lanza because their original goal was to kill hundreds.  When you aim to kill hundreds, 13 is a disappointment, but 25-30 is a disappointment too.  As far as their fangirls and fanboys go, even though some of them are quite ignorant and immature, I think Eric and Dylan would still be flattered by all the attention they get all these years later. They made such a bigger impact on people than Cho or Lanza did and they'd be pleased with that in itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:55 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:09 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:16 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.
Eric and Dylan only tested their guns once if I remember correctly. They also had some pretty bad, old guns. One of Dylan's guns (the Tec 9) was made in 1984 or somewhere around then, so it was 15 years old already when Columbine happened.

Cho's guns were brand new along with the best gadgets/newest technology of the time. He only paid ~$200 or so for his guns (separately). He also did it legally, so there's that too.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:34 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.
Eric and Dylan only tested their guns once if I remember correctly. They also had some pretty bad, old guns. One of Dylan's guns (the Tec 9) was made in 1984 or somewhere around then, so it was 15 years old already when Columbine happened.

Cho's guns were brand new along with the best gadgets/newest technology of the time. He only paid ~$200 or so for his guns (separately). He also did it legally, so there's that too.
I know. Dylan ditched a magazine outside the school because it most likely started jamming up. And the double barrel shotgun was a waste of time. Bad guns or not, they were still horrible at shooting far away targets.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:39 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.
Eric and Dylan only tested their guns once if I remember correctly. They also had some pretty bad, old guns. One of Dylan's guns (the Tec 9) was made in 1984 or somewhere around then, so it was 15 years old already when Columbine happened.

Cho's guns were brand new along with the best gadgets/newest technology of the time. He only paid ~$200 or so for his guns (separately). He also did it legally, so there's that too.
I know. Dylan ditched a magazine outside the school because it most likely started jamming up. And the double barrel shotgun was a waste of time. Bad guns or not, they were still horrible at shooting far away targets.
They never gave themselves the chance to learn, though. They went shooting once before they embarked on the massacre.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:43 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.
Eric and Dylan only tested their guns once if I remember correctly. They also had some pretty bad, old guns. One of Dylan's guns (the Tec 9) was made in 1984 or somewhere around then, so it was 15 years old already when Columbine happened.

Cho's guns were brand new along with the best gadgets/newest technology of the time. He only paid ~$200 or so for his guns (separately). He also did it legally, so there's that too.
I know. Dylan ditched a magazine outside the school because it most likely started jamming up. And the double barrel shotgun was a waste of time. Bad guns or not, they were still horrible at shooting far away targets.
They never gave themselves the chance to learn, though. They went shooting once before they embarked on the massacre.
They also never tested their bombs either (not that I'm aware of). They didn't even buy some of the propane tanks until the morning of the 'bombing'. They should've definitely spent more time learning to shoot and testing their bombs. But in the end, I guess it's good that they actually had no idea what they were doing. Imagine how many more people would have died if they spent more time on it.


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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:56 pm

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

The most important thing to them seemed to be body count. I can't see why they wouldn't be jealous myself.
Yea, I'd be embarrassed too if I was this big tough school shooter and someone photoshopped a picture of me with a band of flowers on my head. But, anyhow...

Most of the fans aren't true researchers. They still think that it was Eric Harris who asked for ketchup with his cini mini's. Most of them probably haven't even attempted to read the 11 K. And yes, I think they'd be embarrassed of those people.

Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.
But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot. I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids.

I don't think they'd want Cho or Lanza's legacy, I think they would strictly want their bodycount plus more.
If you look at it that way, then yes, of course they'd want the higher body count. It's what they were going for. And I think Eric definitely died disappointed with the whole thing. Even if they thought they got a higher body count than they actually did, they knew it was no where near the hundreds. And they wanted this to be a bombing first and foremost, not a shooting. They just improvised when the bombs didn't work. The whole thing was a failure. It's possible they could be jealous of Cho and Lanza's body count but 30 isn't anywhere near the hundreds either.
That's 30 people in 10 minutes though, if Eric and Dylan were as serious as Cho they could have killed 100+ people in an hour. They killed such a small number and they had such a long time (in comparison to most shooters) to do so.
Yes but unlike Dylan and Eric, Cho had a plan and his plan didn't fail and he was much better at shooting his targets. Dylan and Eric were horrible at shooting and were only able to get people that they were up close to. Cho on the other hand, could get moving targets right in the head. I know it sounds morbid but that's the truth. You're comparing the two as if they were both planned shootings but they weren't. Dylan and Eric had to improvise because their original plan failed.
Eric and Dylan only tested their guns once if I remember correctly. They also had some pretty bad, old guns. One of Dylan's guns (the Tec 9) was made in 1984 or somewhere around then, so it was 15 years old already when Columbine happened.

Cho's guns were brand new along with the best gadgets/newest technology of the time. He only paid ~$200 or so for his guns (separately). He also did it legally, so there's that too.
I know. Dylan ditched a magazine outside the school because it most likely started jamming up. And the double barrel shotgun was a waste of time. Bad guns or not, they were still horrible at shooting far away targets.
They never gave themselves the chance to learn, though. They went shooting once before they embarked on the massacre.
They also never tested their bombs either (not that I'm aware of). They didn't even buy some of the propane tanks until the morning of the 'bombing'. They should've definitely spent more time learning to shoot and testing their bombs. But in the end, I guess it's good that they actually had no idea what they were doing. Imagine how many more people would have died if they spent more time on it.

All they tested were the 'pipe bombs'. They didn't test any of the explosives that were meant to take down the school though. I can imagine why they didn't (fear of being found out being the major one).

But it wasn't even just that - they didn't practice shooting enough. It just goes to show Dylan and Eric were little more than teenage boys with a fantasy for blood and destruction.

It is good their plan failed. If only they didn't get the guns and relied solely on the 'bombs' - all 15 might be alive today.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:39 am

As creepy as it is to say I think E and D would have felt proud for Cho. They wanted to kick start a revolution, and not only did Cho follow in their footsteps, but he killed over twice as many people as them. I think E and D would see the victims as their own too. It could be argued that E and D are reaponsible for any deaths that come from school shooters inspired by Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:52 am

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Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.

In my opinion, there were a few factors that led them to get the "status" they got afterwards. The surveillance cameras in cafeteria have made the whole event even more graphic/tragic/interesting/fascinating (you name it) to the world. The public could actually see, although only for a few minutes the shooters during the massacre. Then we had the content of their journals released, the school work describing violent acts, private videos they made where they wore "those trench coats" plus the so called "basement tapes" which even though haven't been released, definitely have made the whole story even more interesting to the public. Lanza, for example, didn't really leave anything behind. Even though he killed his mother and more people than them (little kids!). There's no footage of him from that day, no home videos, etc. So.. I think that the main reason why E&D are so "glorified" and still remembered is because of those things they did before that have been released (videos, essays, journals) and then 911 calls, footage from the cafeteria, survivors' testimonies, etc.
To answer the main thread question, they sure would had preferred the number 30 over 13 but it would've been just as disappointing. Also, I do believe they thought they killed way more.


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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:23 am

Columbine was the micro-event that changed America leading to the new millennium and hence this case is glamourised and the sole reference of any follow-up shootings and pop culture. Everything played out like a dramatic movie. Many years later and here we still are talking about them.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:37 am

I don't think jealous, I think Adam L they might have been like WTF... What a pussy, Cho they might have related to more.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:09 am

I think the boys would have vilified Lanza for killing small children. Ironic, I know, since E/D themselves killed children not that much older than the ones Lanza slaughtered, in the grand scheme of things.

Not sure what they would have thought of Cho, probably they would have just made fun of him for being a nutty Asian.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:44 am

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Dylan and Eric did want a high body count, that's true. If they could have the higher body count and still be infamous, then yea, I think they'd go for it. But as things stand, I don't think they'd be jealous of Cho and Lanza because even though they killed more people, none of them are as infamous as Dylan and Eric and I don't think any other school shooter/s that come along ever will be.

That's a complex question you're asking because it could be looked at several different ways, but how it is now, no I don't think they'd be jealous because while they did want a high body count, they also wanted to be remembered. And well, they are, aren't they? I mean here we are nearly 20 years later still talking about it.

In my opinion, there were a few factors that led them to get the "status" they got afterwards. The surveillance cameras in cafeteria have made the whole event even more graphic/tragic/interesting/fascinating (you name it) to the world. The public could actually see, although only for a few minutes the shooters during the massacre. Then we had the content of their journals released, the school work describing violent acts, private videos they made where they wore "those trench coats" plus the so called "basement tapes" which even though haven't been released, definitely have made the whole story even more interesting to the public. Lanza, for example, didn't really leave anything behind. Even though he killed his mother and more people than them (little kids!). There's no footage of him from that day, no home videos, etc. So.. I think that the main reason why E&D are so "glorified" and still remembered is because of those things they did before that have been released (videos, essays, journals) and then 911 calls, footage from the cafeteria, survivors' testimonies, etc.
To answer the main thread question, they sure would had preferred the number 30 over 13 but it would've been just as disappointing. Also, I do believe they thought they killed way more.
Well there is videos and pictures of Cho that he sent over to the news station and he's not as infamous as Dylan and Eric by any means. I believe that people just aren't as interested because he just comes off as a weird Asian who didn't even talk or have any friends.

Another reason I believe Dylan and Eric have a revolving door of fans is because of programs like 'Rachel's Challenge' that goes around to tons of schools every year and talks about the shooting. In a way it kind of backfires because a lot of the kids end up sympathizing and supporting what Dylan and Eric did.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:04 am

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Nah, I think they'd rather have all the fans with their tattoos, necklaces, pillow cases and Wrath t-shirts over the higher body count.
I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

I think they would be amused with all the infamy and all the attention their actions have generated over the years. Let's be honest, Columbine is the most notorious school shooting for many reasons, even though there has been a higher count of victim deaths at other school shootings since. That being said, I believe they would be embarrassed by many of their followers/supporters. If anything, I can easily imagine E&D mocking many of the web users I've seen singing their praise. I also believe they would look down on many, if not most, if not all!

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I don't know about that. I think they'd be embarrassed by some of the stuff that's said about them to be quite honest, or to be quite blunt, the kind of people that follow them (talking about fans here, not normal researchers).

Yep, as above.

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But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot.

I don't think that Kip Kinkel is anywhere near as notorious as E&D are. In fact, I think they may even be more infamous than Timothy McVeigh. Obviously Timothy's plan was a lot more elaborate and caused much more loss of life and destruction, but I'm of the opinion that Columbine is a much more infamous event.

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I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids

I've read comments from people here suggesting the opposite - that by the time they went back to the library, many people had cleared out so there were only 11 people (10 deceased victims and 1 gravely injured person) that would be easily visible to them. Does anyone else wonder if they noticed this? As morbid as this sounds, does anyone think they walked around the library and inspected the carnage?

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I think the boys would have vilified Lanza for killing small children. Ironic, I know, since E/D themselves killed children not that much older than the ones Lanza slaughtered, in the grand scheme of things.

Not sure what they would have thought of Cho, probably they would have just made fun of him for being a nutty Asian.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts, too. That being said, though, I remember Eric writing some pretty vulgar things about Jonbenet Ramsey, a six year old child who was murdered in the mid-90s (to the effect that he was glad she was murdered), and I don't think his revulsion at what AL did would necessarily stem from any sympathy for the little kids, but more so from what he would view as a weakness in AL: "he killed little 6 year olds? What a pussy!" - someone who shot unarmed high school kids trapped in a room at close range.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:54 am

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I remember Eric writing some pretty vulgar things about Jonbenet Ramsey, a six year old child who was murdered in the mid-90s (to the effect that he was glad she was murdered)
With this, I think he was saying that when these parents go dressing their little kids up to look like grown models, they can expect things like that to happen and it's their own fault (her parents). I don't think he was saying it as in he would want little children being murdered.

That being said, I kind of agree with what Eric said. Not that I am happy that JonBenet was murdered because I think it's terrible, but why do these parents do this kind of stuff to these little kids? Why not just let them be kids instead of forcing her to dress and look like a grown super model? They're just asking for trouble exposing their kids to stuff like that. But then again, I tend to be a bit of a hypochondriac, so I worry about everything. But I just think that this wouldn't have happened if they just let her be what she was - a little kid.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:27 pm

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I remember Eric writing some pretty vulgar things about Jonbenet Ramsey, a six year old child who was murdered in the mid-90s (to the effect that he was glad she was murdered)
With this, I think he was saying that when these parents go dressing their little kids up to look like grown models, they can expect things like that to happen and it's their own fault (her parents). I don't think he was saying it as in he would want little children being murdered.

That being said, I kind of agree with what Eric said. Not that I am happy that JonBenet was murdered because I think it's terrible, but why do these parents do this kind of stuff to these little kids? Why not just let them be kids instead of forcing her to dress and look like a grown super model? They're just asking for trouble exposing their kids to stuff like that. But then again, I tend to be a bit of a hypochondriac, so I worry about everything. But I just think that this wouldn't have happened if they just let her be what she was - a little kid.

On that note, I was hoping that FX and Murphy would have examined the JonBenet Ramsey murder in the next installment of American Crime Story after the People Vs. OJ Simpson. It's a fascinating story really. Maybe another time...

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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I remember Eric writing some pretty vulgar things about Jonbenet Ramsey, a six year old child who was murdered in the mid-90s (to the effect that he was glad she was murdered)
With this, I think he was saying that when these parents go dressing their little kids up to look like grown models, they can expect things like that to happen and it's their own fault (her parents). I don't think he was saying it as in he would want little children being murdered.

Oh for sure I think he was criticizing the idea of child pageants, but if he wasn't necessarily glad that she was murdered, then he was at the very least indifferent. I can't really imagine Eric have any affinity with young children. Afterall, he claimed over and over that he hated humanity and children will always be the next generation. He also had a fascination with Timothy McVeigh's actions that resulted in numerous deaths of very young children in the day care centre near where McVeigh's bomb went off. I just get the feeling that E&D would've thought that Adam Lanza was just a weird weakling who specifically targeted mainly children alone, not out of concern for the children, but just that they would have viewed AL's actions as "pathetic".

P.S. I'm totally with you on your stance re: child beauty pageants. Bizarre things they are.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:30 pm

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But they aren't remembered in the same context as Timothy McVeigh -- they are remembered in the same way as Kip Kinkel (who I believe Eric mocked in his journal). I think that would have upset them a lot.

I don't think that Kip Kinkel is anywhere near as notorious as E&D are. In fact, I think they may even be more infamous than Timothy McVeigh. Obviously Timothy's plan was a lot more elaborate and caused much more loss of life and destruction, but I'm of the opinion that Columbine is a much more infamous event.

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I also think they thought they killed more people than they really did, when they committed suicide all they would have seen is blood everywhere and gravely injured kids
What I meant by that is they are remembered as school shooters (like Kip Kinkel) and not out and out terrorists like McVeigh and his accomplice are/were. I don't doubt Columbine has gotten more attention than the Oklahoma City Bombing - but they are remembered for being teenagers who shot up their school, so in my eyes they have more in common with Kip Kinkel than Timothy McVeigh.

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I've read comments from people here suggesting the opposite - that by the time they went back to the library, many people had cleared out so there were only 11 people (10 deceased victims and 1 gravely injured person) that would be easily visible to them. Does anyone else wonder if they noticed this? As morbid as this sounds, does anyone think they walked around the library and inspected the carnage?
But there's also the kids they thought they killed outside - it's also unknown whether they looked around the library before committing suicide.

One report states that an injured student heard either Eric or Dylan say "you there in the library" around the time of the suicides.
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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:18 pm

Maybe not jealous, but possibly in awe. I still can't believe Lanza's rampage lasted around 5 minutes. That's a lot of dead bodies for 5 minutes.

As far as Cho goes...well, I hate to say it, but his plan was solid. Distract the cops with Emily's death and the manifesto, block the doors to Norris hall, and just shoot. He was very determined. I think E+D might be a little jealous of how well Cho's plan went whereas their propane bombs didn't go off and they had to go with Plan B.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:53 pm

"Maybe not jealous, but possibly in awe. I still can't believe Lanza's rampage lasted around 5 minutes. That's a lot of dead bodies for 5 minutes.

As far as Cho goes...well, I hate to say it, but his plan was solid. Distract the cops with Emily's death and the manifesto, block the doors to Norris hall, and just shoot. He was very determined. I think E+D might be a little jealous of how well Cho's plan went whereas their propane bombs didn't go off and they had to go with Plan B."

Yup yup yup I agree with all of this. Cho's plan was the best one.

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Kiwik

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:28 pm

I think all the shooters in these more recent massacres basically just learned from E&D's mistakes (Just as in a way, E&D seemed to learn from previous shooters' mistakes). I also take into consideration that E&D were teenagers still in high school, while cho and lanza were both adults. These guys had basically no real life experience yet, never got out of high school and still had that teenage mentality. Their plan was executed sloppily, and they still were able to outdo the shooters before them. So even if their plan didn't work out the way they wanted and more recent shooters appeared more successful, what they did was still pretty impressive for 2 high school kids in the late 90s.

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PostSubject: Re: Would Eric and Dylan be jealous of Cho and Lanza?   Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:10 am

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