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 To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..

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cass2008



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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:48 pm

I can see where Dylan could be a little intimidating because of his size and as well as his voice,but I have to agree that Eric was probably the scary of the two... Why do so many people think this of Eric? I mean if you only believe what media tells you then yes Eric would be the "bad one". If people would take the time to actually look into them as people and set aside what they think they know about them and look at it then i believe they would see two teens that felt they had nothing to live for... why did Eric want to involve the school? well its obvious he wanted revenge on everyone that hurt him in some way. and I believe that the school he felt was the root of his pain...
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

You must have said 5 or 6 times now that you're not going to listen to anything people on a message board have to say over what these so called 'doctors' have to say? Why do you even bother visiting this message board if you don't care what anyone on it has to say? And you'd think if these doctors were so great, they'd know you can't properly diagnosis someone who is dead by writings they left behind.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

But if it is true that you cannot diagnose a dead person, how are these doctors--who in Dr. Hare's case invented the diagnostic criteria--doing it?

Who defines when you can and cannot diagnose someone?  Doctors.

Wow. Just wow. Why do people treat mental illness so differently from physical. If a doctor gave a cancer diagnosis without examining a patient, you wouldn't believe it. But if a doctor diagnoses someone's mental state without being able to examine it (because funnily enough, you can't examine someone's mental state if they're dead), you just accept. Just because someone with a title says something, doesn't mean we 'lower' message board people have to be brain dead enough to accept it without question.

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:48 pm

When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger.  I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.
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cass2008



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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger.  I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.

I have to say nicely said... As I said the media turned him into what he wanted makes you think weather or not he knew they where going to do it or not...
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PaintItBlack

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger.  I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.

Wonderfully said.I totally agree.I've wanted to express this same thought so many times.

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger.  I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.

I third this lol! A lot of the people making these sorts of comments never met Eric. What was he like on a "good day"? I am sure he had days that were good for him, where he was happy.....
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger. I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.

Congratulations, this comment needs a gold star!

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lasttrain



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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Eric wrote about mauling people like a 'wolf' and how detail and graphic he'd kill them, that was just something he probably wrote on a really shitty day and was full of anger, i've done it too, i've had days where everyone was giving me a rough time and i'd say (or in his case write down) extremely hateful and twisted things, all in the moment of anger.  I think the fact he's deceased, and how he ended up dying is the reason they concluded he was a psychopath, they just took all the things a pissed off teen would say in anger as his true personality.

He was after-all just a kid who had low self-esteem, who was going through problems and the picture he wanted the world to see him as much more, which means he pretty much won, as he is this brutal cold blooded killer to 99% of people. They are giving him exactly what he wants, the people who expose him for just being a kid with problems are seeing right through this badass 'Reb' persona he built up.

The problem with your post is that he went on to try to kill 400 people. Eric having these fantasies was not the same as others having these fantasies. He meant it.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:11 pm

Dylan must have meant it also so he was in on this with Eric all the way.

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:23 pm


Quote :

Wow. Just wow. Why do people treat mental illness so differently from physical. If a doctor gave a cancer diagnosis without examining a patient, you wouldn't believe it. But if a doctor diagnoses someone's mental state without being able to examine it (because funnily enough, you can't examine someone's mental state if they're dead), you just accept. Just because someone with a title says something, doesn't mean we 'lower' message board people have to be brain dead enough to accept it without question.

Not only that but the DSM IV of the time would not have allowed Eric to be diagnosed as a psychopath. Even the modern DSM V would be hard pressed posthumously.


But my personal opinion based on what I know and my personal anecdotal experiences would suggest Eric wasn't a psycho/sociopath.

Then again if we're going after body count then Stalin or Harry Truman are sick fucks...ok well Stalin was.


The leap of logic I use, Truman wanted to prevent further American deaths at the hand of millions murdered in Nagasaki and Hiroshima (I'm a nutso, I woulda done the same). Eric wanted to change the culture of society by kick starting a revolution. No more a sociopath on that logic than Truman or the Founders of the US or France for that matter.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:14 pm

Quote :
And you'd think if these doctors were so great, they'd know you can't properly diagnosis someone who is dead by writings they left behind.

Like chemists, physicists, economists, etc, psychologists are scientists, but their subject matter, like economists, is social behavior. Like the hard sciences, our experiments need to be falsifiable, meaning that we must be able to prove our hypothesis incorrect. But unlike chemistry, physics, computer science, our experiments are more often linked to casualty. In other words, the hard sciences are more falsifiable than casual, while the softer sciences are more casual than falsifiable.

That being said, I have read that Fuselier tried to falsify his hypothesis on psychopathy. What many people don't understand is that psychological diagnoses are hypotheses. So, I don't believe Fuselier made his diagnosis in haste. Rather, I think he might have concluded his experiment based solely on what Eric wrote/said/did in his journals and video tapes. Unfortunately psychologists cannot ignore the casual relationships and factors that crop up in experiments. Nowadays psychologists use a simple DSM criteria to determine whether a patient fits the disorder based on empirical observation of the patient, a simple method that ignores casualty. However, I think DSM types are flawed, and often misused. So, it is possible that Fuselier's framework is flawed. But, we'll never know, as he hasn't spoken to the public.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:09 am

The DSM is the only way a mental diagnosis is given. Period. Dot. Yes the DSM has changed over time (flawed?) as a result of the change in ways to treat and understand mental disorders. But in 1998/99 as well as today based on the DSM, neither would have been diagnosed strictly through their writings/tapes.

I've done this with my son and it isn't a simple prick of a finger or written exam.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The DSM is the only way a mental diagnosis is given.  Period.  Dot.  Yes the DSM has changed over time (flawed?) as a result of the change in ways to treat and understand mental disorders.  

That is not just my opinion. Several experts believe that the DSM codes are flawed on several counts. Take a look at this entry from a respected journal on the subject matter:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here is a blog from a psychologist on Psychology Today on DSM-5. I completely agree with her analysis. Please read her blog:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:07 am

I see a headline with criticism.

Fundamental Flaws of the DSM: Re-Envisioning Diagnosis

Authors

G. Kenneth Bradford
Lafayette, CA, USA, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



One author.  I can't read the article so I don't know how "several" experts are noted.  Also the IF (impact factor) of the journal itself is pretty low.  Not sure what would make them the final arbiters on the subject matter anyways.

Edit: There are better sources than psychology today.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:04 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


One author.  I can't read the article so I don't know how "several" experts are noted.  

The link that I sent to you is an abstract from an academic psychological journal. Dr. Bradford's research is just one of many psychological research efforts that focus on improving the diagnostic quality of psychiatric and psychological evaluation. Although Bradford does note DSM's crucial importance to psychological evaluation, he advocates a more holistic approach. You could disagree with his research, analysis or recommendations; it's up to you. This essay is a small subset of the expert opinion available on the subject.

Quote :
 Not sure what would make them the final arbiters on the subject matter anyways.

There is no such thing as a "final arbiter[s]" in science. Yes, there are laws, but a law can be proven false under different testing conditions. Scientific enquiry is a constant quest for answers.

Quote :

Edit:  There are better sources than psychology today.  

True. There are better journals out there. Granted, this article was written by a sociologist who's written an excellent book on mental illness.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:23 pm

Really awesome discussion and so many interesting points of view. I'm not going to say either way what I think his diagnosis should be because I'm not a medical professional and I don't have a whole lot of faith in psychology anyway. I've seen too many healthy, highly creative, highly empathetic kids get drugged up with ADD medication or anti depressants instead of being taught how to channel that stuff productively and creatively. I'm not trying to say ADD and depression don't exist, because they do and that would make me an idiot BUT it's my opinion that they are severely over diagnosed. Almost twenty years later we're doing the same with Autism and Aspergers.

Big companies make big money drugging kids up, why bother trying to teach them emotional coping skills? Just drug them up to the eyeballs, don't listen to them when they tell you they're having homicidal/suicidal thoughts and then sit back and scratch your head as to why two boys took guns to school. No one was listening to them, not even Eric's therapist.

So is Eric a psychopath a sociopath or just another damaged, angry, medicated kid who constantly slipped through the cracks until it was too late to reach him? I guess we'll never know for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:40 pm

I wouldn't say either was a psychopath and I feel sociopath is a bit of a stretch. They definitely both had some issues that were most likely exasperated by medication, hormones, and the general high school enviroment. Outside factors like violence in media may have made it a bit more palatable to them but it would have played a very minor role if any at all. I mean, violent games make people act like little assholes now but that seems to be more of the online culture rather than the game itself.

Ultimately, I think the two were essentially normal teenagers and that is what draws so many people to Columbine. They are relateable. They aren't the stereotypical, "bad boys". They're just your average nerdy teenagers and that is what scares people the most. Just like Hitler they could be anyone. We make them into monsters as a coping mechanism.
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:38 am

booyhyhhooooo


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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:52 am

Am I the only one who thinks that neither Eric nor Dylan were psychopaths, but just incredibly fed up with almost everything, confused as hell without a valid guidance, and they tried to cope:

1) being aggressive to the point of explosion (E)
2) fueling depression until you start to actually believe that you're some kind of super entity of sadness which feels entitled to judge everybody (D)?
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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that neither Eric nor Dylan were psychopaths, but just incredibly fed up with almost everything, confused as hell without a valid guidance, and they tried to cope:

1) being aggressive to the point of explosion (E)
2) fueling depression until you start to actually believe that you're some kind of super entity of sadness which feels entitled to judge everybody (D)?

No I feel the same way since a long time ago

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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:00 am

boohoooo


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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:04 am

booooohhooooooo


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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:06 am

boooohhooooo


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PostSubject: Re: To all the "Eric was a psychopath" people..   Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:23 pm

One of the biggest problems with the psychopathy diagnosis is that it requires observation, and the doctors who diagnosed Eric had no opportunity to observe him at any point.

I personally do not place much stock in the diagnosis because of this. Diagnoses of mental illness are complicated matters, and many require observation over a period of time.
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