Footage of them placing the bombs?

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I was talking to Randy about this and he had the same thoughts re the weight of the bombs and the effortless way the people on the recording seemed to be carrying it.

cool!

Well, Eric struggled, you can see. Dylan not so much as he was taller. And honestly if you do it quick it's not too hard to carry such weight with you especially when you're psyching yourself out in your mind to do it carefully.

What exactly is that real-time account trying to prove?

asloversgo wrote:

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I don't think its too much of a stretch to think Eric and Dylan could carry those bags like that. There's that old saying about "mothers lifting cars up off their child". Adrenaline acts as a simultaneous energy boost and pain killer. Imagine the adrenaline rush carrying those bombs in while mere minutes from NBK must have given E/D. And too be honest the kid who is supposedly Eric isn't having the easiest of times. There's clearly some weight in the bag he's carrying and he seems to be fighting to keep his balance straight. Dylan being lanky combined with his large walking stride makes it hard to tell the weight of the bag. The shirt on Dylan alone is enough evidence for me. I understand the skepticism about that being Eric though.

Nirvana92 wrote:

asloversgo wrote:

I have a researcher friend who did the walk through himself and I thought I would share it. He doesn’t post here but I can send any questions his way 

“I started in the Parking lot in Clements Park, parking as close to the school as I can get. This is, according to their plans, where they parked.
I cannot remember if this was verified by eyewitness testimony, but it was noted in their plans.
It does make sense. They didn’t park in the Junior or Senior lot, and the only other parking was the teacher and guest parking in front of the school. To park there would have created too much chance of being discovered. Students never parked there. They often parked in Clements Park, despite the harassment they received for parking there.
I parked in one of the most likely spots, up by the baseball fields. These are out of sight from the school, and it is not a busy area at all. The parking lot in Clements Park sits above the school and cannot be seen.


I walk from my car, past The Dave Sanders Memorial Field, The school is next, and I walk by the back of the school, with few windows facing me. This would have been the route they would have taken. It is the back of the school and pretty much out of sight.
It is, from my car, 4 minutes and 40 seconds to the door of the school. Then I walked paralleling the cafeteria until I was at about the place they had placed the bombs. That took 60 seconds each way.

I walked back to my car, walking a little faster, trying to match their estimated speed. They wouldn’t be carrying the duffel bags going back to the cars, so they could have walked a little faster. That took 4 minutes and 23 seconds.

Estimating about 2-3 minutes for them to suit up, i waited a few minutes, then got in and drove my car to the student parking lot, and parked in the space in the junior lot where Eric had parked on April 20th. That short drive took 1:57.


Then, estimating a few more minutes at the car, while Eric unloaded another duffel bag and got dressed into his suspenders and trenchcoat, I walked to the top of the hill, on the West side of the school, where the two had, according to witnesses, met, and waited. The unloading took 2-3 minutes, and the walk took 2:49. Yes, it took 2 minutes and 49 seconds. It was about 120 yards to the meeting place at the top of the little hill by the fence. These landmarks are not there anymore, having been removed and new steps installed, but the distance is the same.
The total time was approx. 17 minutes, depending on a few variables. How long did they wait in Clements Park?
How long did it take to get suited up?

So, at 10:58 am Eric is walking into the cafeteria with a bomb in a duffel bag. This is actually a bit suspect. Is it really him? It appears to be. Could he have actually carried that much weight?
Could 145 pound Eric carry a full propane tank, gasoline, napalm and more in a duffel bag in one hand?
Have actually tried it, years ago, and I doubt that he could. But, I have to assume it is possible, because we are seeing him and Dylan actually doing it. They are smaller bags than I expected, and they weigh a lot, but they carry them in quite casually and without much apparent effort.
The 10:58 time on the video means that they parked in the lot at Clements Park 4 minutes and 40 seconds before that, got out of the car, took a minute or two to get ready, and then walked to the school. They didn’t run, because that would have drawn attention. They had to walk, at a reasonable pace, and not attract attention.


The 10:58 am time sets them in the time overview about 5 minutes into the walk I took. So, starting at the school, they leave at 10:59, and walk back to their cars.
All of these times are approximate.


Based on this time-line review, they are pulling into the parking lot at the school at about 11:07 and then walk to the top of the hill at about 11:12.
The shooting started after 11:17. Possibly as late as 11:20
Does this make sense?


It is close enough, given the unknown times for them to unload the cars and get suited up, for this to match. They were seen pulling into the school drive at around 11:08 or 11:10.Any variation would be accounted for in the time they waited at the cars in Clements Park, in the time they took to get ready in the parking lot, and the time they waited at the top of the hill by the fence.
The times can work.


The real question now is: Can they have carried in the bombs in one trip? Were they strong enough? If we add the approx. 8 minutes and 40 seconds that a second trip would have required, there is simply not enough time, unless the video shows them taking their second trip. If they had started with an added first trip ten minutes earlier, then the timing can still work."

I don't think its too much of a stretch to think Eric and Dylan could carry those bags like that. There's that old saying about "mothers lifting cars up off their child". Adrenaline acts as a simultaneous energy boost and pain killer. Imagine the adrenaline rush carrying those bombs in while mere minutes from NBK must have given E/D. And too be honest the kid who is supposedly Eric isn't having the easiest of times. There's clearly some weight in the bag he's carrying and he seems to be fighting to keep his balance straight. Dylan being lanky combined with his large walking stride makes it hard to tell the weight of the bag. The shirt on Dylan alone is enough evidence for me. I understand the skepticism about that being Eric though.

I am with you. I def think he could have carried it. It would have been a lot of weight but he was pumped and ready to go.

Thank you I was making the same point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

The weight of the bombs were not a problem at all.

From CNN:

Blending in with 400 other backpacks and bags scattered throughout the cafeteria, the duffel bags conceal 20-pound propane bombs timed to explode at 11:17 a.m.

Each tank was 20 lbs. A study determined that the average weight of a 6th grader's backpack in the US is 20-30 lbs. Next time you are at a sporting goods store go heft a pair of 20 lbs. weights.  Easy.

As far as the walkthrough timeline is concerned, which entrance do we think they utilized when they planted the bombs?

lasttrain wrote:

As far as the walkthrough timeline is concerned, which entrance do we think they utilized when they planted the bombs?

I think the west entrance near the Teacher's lounge maybe.

Lizpuff is correct that's from West

Well, a known Columbine blogger/tumblr just went to littleton and the school in the flesh and took pictures of the cafeteria and where the cctv camera that captured them is placed. I mean, you may refer to her blog for actual details. I can't link it on here though.

Is it against the rules for me to ask you to PM me the name of the blog? I am not familiar with that world but I would like to see the pictures.

lasttrain wrote:

Is it against the rules for me to ask you to PM me the name of the blog?  I am not familiar with that world but I would like to see the pictures.

I would like to see it as well!

What I don't understand from the walkthrough above is why the researcher started in Clement Park?  Surely Eric and Dylan just parked right at the school and walked in the northwest entrance to the cafeteria, and then went to Clement Park afterward. That's what they planned, and that's what it appears they did.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] PM-ed.

lasttrain wrote:

What I don't understand from the walkthrough above is why the researcher started in Clement Park? Surely Eric and Dylan just parked right at the school and walked in the northwest entrance to the cafeteria, and then went to Clement Park afterward. That's what they planned, and that's what it appears they did.

Yeah I don't know either. It left me confused. We need to remember they made two trips. They headed to school for bomb placement, left to gear up, and then went back for rampage. This account sounds like it's trying to re-enact the first one.

[quote="1891"]

Vii wrote:

It all contradicts with Brook's story. He said he saw Eric pull up after 11:00 AM.
Either the investigators were too lazy to watch the whole footage carefully or they identified the guy (It would have been a pretty big coincidence if it wasn't them considering a flannel shirt, bags, and time frame.)

They could've had the cars closer to the entrance, planted the bombs, then drove to their respective parking places. Could explain why Brooks saw Erik "pull up" at 11:00.

shades wrote:

If it's possible at all, maybe the best way to compare is with the evidence photos of the bags placed in the cafeteria after the massacre with the video footage and put together the exact location...as in if it's noticable enough that the spot is the same.
If likely then CVA should get his credit for pointing this out though I'm sure someone else may have spotted this before but didn't share.

Someone else discovered it and sent it to CVA. He did credit that person for the find.

My turn to bump one I guess.

This is the best sequence I have found, as both suspects remain highlighted throughout their recorded movement.



Still, I'm not fully convinced.

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

Well, everything they wore that day matched, including their boxers but if you're asking why they wore the plaid shirts to place the bombs instead of the trench coats? My guess would be that they were trying to look normal and blend in. They didn't wanna draw attention to themselves. And wearing the trench coats did tend to do that.

I'd even go as far to say that I think the suicides were supposed to match too because Dylan had a shotgun bullet in his boot. I'm pretty sure he put it there to make sure he had a bullet for himself in the end. I think after he saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric, he changed his mind and used the Tec 9 instead. Of course, this is just what I think happened.

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

Well, everything they wore that day matched, including their boxers but if you're asking why they wore the plaid shirts to place the bombs instead of the trench coats? My guess would be that they were trying to look normal and blend in. They didn't wanna draw attention to themselves. And wearing the trench coats did tend to do that.

I'd even go as far to say that I think the suicides were supposed to match too because Dylan had a shotgun bullet in his boot. I'm pretty sure he put it there to make sure he had a bullet for himself in the end. I think after he saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric, he changed his mind and used the Tec 9 instead. Of course, this is just what I think
happened.

That's kind of what I thought, just try not to draw attention. Although I had no idea they went so far as to wear the same boxers, this is what captivates me about Columbine so much information I thought I knew but really had no idea about. Do you think Eric did more research on suicide than Dylan did? Because even though it may have looked brutal, Eric from reports felt nothing but Dylan may have lost consciousness but choked on some blood etc. I'm not sure if Dylan would've felt anything either but seems Eric's application of the suicide technique was foolproof, while Dylans could've went wrong tbh hit just the frontal lobe and maybe not die? I also was unaware Eric just sat down and went for it, I would've pictured and see ya later or something, but seems that didn't happen either. Sorry for the long comment but do you think that was just Eric not wanting to get nervous or anything so just sit down and go no goodbyes no thinking just Arlene in the mouth and bye world?

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

Well, everything they wore that day matched, including their boxers but if you're asking why they wore the plaid shirts to place the bombs instead of the trench coats? My guess would be that they were trying to look normal and blend in. They didn't wanna draw attention to themselves. And wearing the trench coats did tend to do that.

I'd even go as far to say that I think the suicides were supposed to match too because Dylan had a shotgun bullet in his boot. I'm pretty sure he put it there to make sure he had a bullet for himself in the end. I think after he saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric, he changed his mind and used the Tec 9 instead. Of course, this is just what I think
happened.

That's kind of what I thought, just try not to draw attention. Although I had no idea they went so far as to wear the same boxers, this is what captivates me about Columbine so much information I thought I knew but really had no idea about. Do you think Eric did more research on suicide than Dylan did? Because even though it may have looked brutal, Eric from reports felt nothing but Dylan may have lost consciousness but choked on some blood etc. I'm not sure if Dylan would've felt anything either but seems Eric's application of the suicide technique was foolproof, while Dylans could've went wrong tbh hit just the frontal lobe and maybe not die? I also was unaware Eric just sat down and went for it, I would've pictured and see ya later or something, but seems that didn't happen either. Sorry for the long comment but do you think that was just Eric not wanting to get nervous or anything so just sit down and go no goodbyes no thinking just Arlene in the mouth and bye world?

Eric may have done some research to find out what would be the quickest, most successful way to kill himself with a shotgun, but Dylan had been suicidal and wanting to kill himself for at least 2 years prior to Columbine. We really have no way of knowing who came up with the idea of the shotgun to the mouth. If I had to guess, I'd say Eric did though but I do think Dylan was supposed to use a shotgun to the mouth too and decided against it at the last minute.

Again, we have no way of knowing for sure when it comes to Eric just sitting down and killing himself, but I think that's exactly what happened. I think it probably took Dylan by surprise and he wasn't expecting it to happen so fast because he was playing around with a Molotov at the time. I think they stopped shooting at the cops, Dylan started messing around with the Molotov and Eric said nothing, sat down and just killed himself. I don't envision any goodbye or hugs or any of that. I think Eric just thought to himself "I'm done" and then did it.

I also think Eric died extremely disappointed and that he probably felt like the whole thing wasn't even worth it. Although I'm sure he'd love all the attention Columbine still gets to this day, but on that day, I think he thought the whole thing was a huge failure. Dylan, on the other hand, I don't think he really gave a shit one way or the other. I don't think he was really all that bothered that the bombs didn't blow up. I think he just wanted to have the time of his life (which it seems like he did) and then finally die. I mean he was running around yelling and screaming and just having a grand old time. He was loving it.

And don't worry about the long comments, lol. Most of my comments are short essays.

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

Well, everything they wore that day matched, including their boxers but if you're asking why they wore the plaid shirts to place the bombs instead of the trench coats? My guess would be that they were trying to look normal and blend in. They didn't wanna draw attention to themselves. And wearing the trench coats did tend to do that.

I'd even go as far to say that I think the suicides were supposed to match too because Dylan had a shotgun bullet in his boot. I'm pretty sure he put it there to make sure he had a bullet for himself in the end. I think after he saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric, he changed his mind and used the Tec 9 instead. Of course, this is just what I think
happened.

That's kind of what I thought, just try not to draw attention. Although I had no idea they went so far as to wear the same boxers, this is what captivates me about Columbine so much information I thought I knew but really had no idea about. Do you think Eric did more research on suicide than Dylan did? Because even though it may have looked brutal, Eric from reports felt nothing but Dylan may have lost consciousness but choked on some blood etc. I'm not sure if Dylan would've felt anything either but seems Eric's application of the suicide technique was foolproof, while Dylans could've went wrong tbh hit just the frontal lobe and maybe not die? I also was unaware Eric just sat down and went for it, I would've pictured and see ya later or something, but seems that didn't happen either. Sorry for the long comment but do you think that was just Eric not wanting to get nervous or anything so just sit down and go no goodbyes no thinking just Arlene in the mouth and bye world?

Eric may have done some research to find out what would be the quickest, most successful way to kill himself with a shotgun, but Dylan had been suicidal and wanting to kill himself for at least 2 years prior to Columbine. We really have no way of knowing who came up with the idea of the shotgun to the mouth. If I had to guess, I'd say Eric did though but I do think Dylan was supposed to use a shotgun to the mouth too and decided against it at the last minute.

Again, we have no way of knowing for sure when it comes to Eric just sitting down and killing himself, but I think that's exactly what happened. I think it probably took Dylan by surprise and he wasn't expecting it to happen so fast because he was playing around with a Molotov at the time. I think they stopped shooting at the cops, Dylan started messing around with the Molotov and Eric said nothing, sat down and just killed himself. I don't envision any goodbye or hugs or any of that. I think Eric just thought to himself "I'm done" and then did it.

I also think Eric died extremely disappointed and that he probably felt like the whole thing wasn't even worth it. Although I'm sure he'd love all the attention Columbine still gets to this day, but on that day, I think he thought the whole thing was a huge failure. Dylan, on the other hand, I don't think he really gave a shit one way or the other. I don't think he was really all that bothered that the bombs didn't blow up. I think he just wanted to have the time of his life (which it seems like he did) and then finally die. I mean he was running around yelling and screaming and just having a grand old time. He was loving it.

And don't worry about the long comments, lol. Most of my comments are short essays.

Just speculating here but maybe the reason that Dylan opted to commit suicide with the Tec-9 so that it wouldn't do as devastating damage to him as the shotgun blast did to Eric so that his family and friends could have an open casket for him. Yeah it's an odd thing to consider how you would look in a coffin at your funeral when you're about to commit suicide after killing a bunch of people but I wonder if that was going through Dylan's mind in those moments. Or it could be as simple as the Tec-9 was still loaded with rounds and Dylan was just holding it in his hand so it was quicker to shoot himself with that instead of reaching inside his boot to pull out a shell to load into his shotgun to kill himself with. I guess the shell in Dylan's boot was for the last resort in case they spent all of their ammo on shooting at people and cops.

UncontinuedProcess wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

Jenn wrote:

dereknocturnal wrote:

In seeing the 10:58 bomb placing footage, I always imagined they just made a quick trip to "gear up" afterwards and it didn't really matter how long they took since the bombs were set to go off near 20 minutes later, just gotta be back on the hill about 11:15, plenty of time. I never thought of them packing bombs all the way from Clement to the school.

Going over to "gear up" was always intended to be after they placed the bombs, not before. Originally they were going to place the bombs at 11:08 (according to Dylan's timeline), but I think they moved it up 10 minutes because placing them at 11:08 and trying to get across the street, gear up and get back in less than 10 minutes would have been difficult.

This may be a pointless observation, but do you know why they both wore the plaid shirts?

Well, everything they wore that day matched, including their boxers but if you're asking why they wore the plaid shirts to place the bombs instead of the trench coats? My guess would be that they were trying to look normal and blend in. They didn't wanna draw attention to themselves. And wearing the trench coats did tend to do that.

I'd even go as far to say that I think the suicides were supposed to match too because Dylan had a shotgun bullet in his boot. I'm pretty sure he put it there to make sure he had a bullet for himself in the end. I think after he saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric, he changed his mind and used the Tec 9 instead. Of course, this is just what I think
happened.

That's kind of what I thought, just try not to draw attention. Although I had no idea they went so far as to wear the same boxers, this is what captivates me about Columbine so much information I thought I knew but really had no idea about. Do you think Eric did more research on suicide than Dylan did? Because even though it may have looked brutal, Eric from reports felt nothing but Dylan may have lost consciousness but choked on some blood etc. I'm not sure if Dylan would've felt anything either but seems Eric's application of the suicide technique was foolproof, while Dylans could've went wrong tbh hit just the frontal lobe and maybe not die? I also was unaware Eric just sat down and went for it, I would've pictured and see ya later or something, but seems that didn't happen either. Sorry for the long comment but do you think that was just Eric not wanting to get nervous or anything so just sit down and go no goodbyes no thinking just Arlene in the mouth and bye world?

Eric may have done some research to find out what would be the quickest, most successful way to kill himself with a shotgun, but Dylan had been suicidal and wanting to kill himself for at least 2 years prior to Columbine. We really have no way of knowing who came up with the idea of the shotgun to the mouth. If I had to guess, I'd say Eric did though but I do think Dylan was supposed to use a shotgun to the mouth too and decided against it at the last minute.

Again, we have no way of knowing for sure when it comes to Eric just sitting down and killing himself, but I think that's exactly what happened. I think it probably took Dylan by surprise and he wasn't expecting it to happen so fast because he was playing around with a Molotov at the time. I think they stopped shooting at the cops, Dylan started messing around with the Molotov and Eric said nothing, sat down and just killed himself. I don't envision any goodbye or hugs or any of that. I think Eric just thought to himself "I'm done" and then did it.

I also think Eric died extremely disappointed and that he probably felt like the whole thing wasn't even worth it. Although I'm sure he'd love all the attention Columbine still gets to this day, but on that day, I think he thought the whole thing was a huge failure. Dylan, on the other hand, I don't think he really gave a shit one way or the other. I don't think he was really all that bothered that the bombs didn't blow up. I think he just wanted to have the time of his life (which it seems like he did) and then finally die. I mean he was running around yelling and screaming and just having a grand old time. He was loving it.

And don't worry about the long comments, lol. Most of my comments are short essays.

Just speculating here but maybe the reason that Dylan opted to commit suicide with the Tec-9 so that it wouldn't do as devastating damage to him as the shotgun blast did to Eric so that his family and friends could have an open casket for him. Yeah it's an odd thing to consider how you would look in a coffin at your funeral when you're about to commit suicide after killing a bunch of people but I wonder if that was going through Dylan's mind in those moments. Or it could be as simple as the Tec-9 was still loaded with rounds and Dylan was just holding it in his hand so it was quicker to shoot himself with that instead of reaching inside his boot to pull out a shell to load into his shotgun to kill himself with. I guess the shell in Dylan's boot was for the last resort in case they spent all of their ammo on shooting at people and cops.  

Those are all possibilities. Although, I don't know if he was really thinking about his family. He didn't seem to really give a shit about them in the Basement Tapes or in the Goodbye video. I think Dylan wanted to die but I think he was also scared to die, if that makes sense. Like he couldn't just kill himself on his own. He had to go through with the massacre in order to do it.

I think, in the end, he was scared and hesitated. By looking at the suicide photos, there's no question that Eric was dead first and I'm pretty certain Dylan saw what the shotgun blast did to Eric. Maybe something he saw scared him, I don't know. Personally, I just think he changed his mind at the last second and used the Tec 9 instead. But who knows? As you said, it's all just speculation. It's the one thing I'd like to know though if I could know anything at all about the entire thing. What actually happened in those last few minutes.

And yes, I agree that the bullet was set aside so that he had one for himself. I wonder if Eric had one in his boot too and took it out to kill himself with it? Everything else they did matched, so I often wonder if that did too?

So many questions...

Thougt that it was a 9mm bullet in dylans boot, not a shotgunshell?

P.i wrote:

Thougt that it was a 9mm bullet in dylans boot, not a shotgunshell?

You might be right. I just went back and looked at his autopsy report and doesn't specify what kind of bullet it is. I always assumed that since it said it was a large bullet that it was a shotgun bullet. But the autopsy says that the bullet was in a copper jacket and as far as I know, the shotgun bullets are in a plastic casing (I don't know much about bullets though).

If that's the case, then I guess he was planning to use the Tec 9 all along. Thank you for pointing that out.