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 Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?

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bubbles



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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:03 am

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Yep, no one can say for sure. He was still a murderous piece of shit, though, and that's something that can't be disputed (well, maybe the piece of shit part, knowing some of the posters in this forum (Inb4 people are butthurt that I called a kid who killed people he didn't even know in cold blood a piece of shit  Rolling Eyes).

I don't deny he was a murderous POS

Whenever I feel sad for either of them it is just for who they were,  the children that they were.  Not the boys they became



I can deny it.Not the murderous part of course.But the POS part?Absolutely.
I don't think it''s right to refer to any human being as such a thing.
All human lives have value, God created everyone and loves everyone.
I'm aware I'm probably the only person on this board who has this opinion.

Mm okay, but as you're aware, not everyone believes in God. I personally would question someone or something that still has love for say, a paedophile who brutally raped and tortured children in the most horrific ways possible. But that's just me.


Just because God still loves that doesn't mean that he doesn't hate and revile the crime.It says in the Bible that God hates all sin.It also doesn't mean that there aren't punishments from God that will come at some point too.

I think one of the reasons why you and I have such different outlooks is definitely down to personal beliefs about religion. As far as I'm concerned, we all get one shot at life. After that, you decay, end of story. That's why I find life to be so precious. That's part of the reason why I find Eric and Dylan to have been such despicable people. In my eyes, we only get one chance to live, so who the hell were they to take the precious lives of others? I guess because you believe in God and an afterlife, maybe at a subconscious level death isn't as much of a massive deal as it is to someone who is an atheist? I'm just wondering. Again, I don't know you or your beliefs all too well, but it's just a thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:05 am

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So you don't feel that what Eric and Dylan did was all that heinous and that Eric and Dylan deserve forgiveness for their actions? I personally am getting really sick of all the sympathy and leniency revolving around Eric and Dylan and their actions. I would expect it on tumblr, but on here? Come on..

Interesting how people on this board have stated that Adam Lanza is a monster for killing six year olds (which is true), yet what Eric and Dylan did to high school kids they didn't even know is nowhere near as bad, apparently. Tell me again, what did Steven Curnow do to warrant being shot in the neck? If he had been six, would his death evoke more sympathy for him and more feelings of disgust towards his killer?

It was heinous. But for me I learnt enough about them to somehow settle that (and obviously i've humanised them) they were ordinary teens like most we know or how we or i was back then who needed help and got lost and hated themselves and went and shot up a school. It's almost unacceptable to weigh out evil deed and evil people and that's what I'm doing now I won't deny it, but I know that there are people way worse than the boys.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:08 am

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Yep, no one can say for sure. He was still a murderous piece of shit, though, and that's something that can't be disputed (well, maybe the piece of shit part, knowing some of the posters in this forum (Inb4 people are butthurt that I called a kid who killed people he didn't even know in cold blood a piece of shit  Rolling Eyes).

I don't deny he was a murderous POS

Whenever I feel sad for either of them it is just for who they were,  the children that they were.  Not the boys they became



I can deny it.Not the murderous part of course.But the POS part?Absolutely.
I don't think it''s right to refer to any human being as such a thing.
All human lives have value, God created everyone and loves everyone.
I'm aware I'm probably the only person on this board who has this opinion.

Mm okay, but as you're aware, not everyone believes in God. I personally would question someone or something that still has love for say, a paedophile who brutally raped and tortured children in the most horrific ways possible. But that's just me.

I don't think god loves everyone, because remember that time he got so pissed off he decided to drown every living creature on the planet, innocent or not (Noah's Ark)?


Yes, I do.  God has his reasons for every action he has ever taken and I can't argue with him as he is the creator of the entire Universe even if its something that I don't understand.The Bible says that in the Kingdom you will understand everything,all questions will be answered .That probably sounds like blind faith to you but I have no doubt of it.
All I can do is tell you or anyone that wonders about these things is to get a Bible and read it.There are mysteries that aren't known but the Bible does explain much of why God has done things in the past.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:14 am

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Yep, no one can say for sure. He was still a murderous piece of shit, though, and that's something that can't be disputed (well, maybe the piece of shit part, knowing some of the posters in this forum (Inb4 people are butthurt that I called a kid who killed people he didn't even know in cold blood a piece of shit  Rolling Eyes).

I don't deny he was a murderous POS

Whenever I feel sad for either of them it is just for who they were,  the children that they were.  Not the boys they became



I can deny it.Not the murderous part of course.But the POS part?Absolutely.
I don't think it''s right to refer to any human being as such a thing.
All human lives have value, God created everyone and loves everyone.
I'm aware I'm probably the only person on this board who has this opinion.

Mm okay, but as you're aware, not everyone believes in God. I personally would question someone or something that still has love for say, a paedophile who brutally raped and tortured children in the most horrific ways possible. But that's just me.


Just because God still loves that doesn't mean that he doesn't hate and revile the crime.It says in the Bible that God hates all sin.It also doesn't mean that there aren't punishments from God that will come at some point too.

I think one of the reasons why you and I have such different outlooks is definitely down to personal beliefs about religion. As far as I'm concerned, we all get one shot at life. After that, you decay, end of story. That's why I find life to be so precious. That's part of the reason why I find Eric and Dylan to have been such despicable people. In my eyes, we only get one chance to live, so who the hell were they to take the precious lives of others? I guess because you believe in God and an afterlife, maybe at a subconscious level death isn't as much of a massive deal as it is to someone who is an atheist? I'm just wondering. Again, I don't know you or your beliefs all too well, but it's just a thought.


I'm sure that's a lot of it although I do take death very seriously as I believe when you die you leave this planet for good.I do not believe in the spirits of the dead ever returning to earth and speaking to people or in reincarnation.I don't mean to put anyone's beliefs down but to me if this life was all there is and then you die and that's it,I would find living to be a pointless exercise.


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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:09 am

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I'm sure that's a lot of it although I do take death very seriously as I believe when you die you leave this planet for good.I do not believe in the spirits of the dead ever returning to earth and speaking to people or in reincarnation.I don't mean to put anyone's beliefs down but to me if this life was all there is and then you die and that's it,I would find living to be a pointless exercise.

And no offense, but on the contrary I find that some religious people take a liking to the idea of an afterlife of some sort because they are uncomfortable with notion that people and other beings simply live and then die. I'm an atheist, however, I don't find my existence all that pointless, but I guess it's relative to how you see things. In the grand scheme of everything? I guess, but for the time whilst I'm alive? obviously not. I have goals and plans to keep me occupied while I'm here on this earth. It's all subjective, really.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:24 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
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So you don't feel that what Eric and Dylan did was all that heinous and that Eric and Dylan deserve forgiveness for their actions? I personally am getting really sick of all the sympathy and leniency revolving around Eric and Dylan and their actions. I would expect it on tumblr, but on here? Come on..

Interesting how people on this board have stated that Adam Lanza is a monster for killing six year olds (which is true), yet what Eric and Dylan did to high school kids they didn't even know is nowhere near as bad, apparently. Tell me again, what did Steven Curnow do to warrant being shot in the neck? If he had been six, would his death evoke more sympathy for him and more feelings of disgust towards his killer?

It was heinous. But for me I learnt enough about them to somehow settle that (and obviously i've humanised them) they were ordinary teens like most we know or how we or i was back then who needed help and got lost and hated themselves and went and shot up a school. It's almost unacceptable to weigh out evil deed and evil people and that's what I'm doing now I won't deny it, but I know that there are people way worse than the boys.

It's just weird that you mentioned there should be a line between acts that can be forgiven and can't be in context to this thread when you were saying there are people who have done worse things than what Eric and Dylan did. Like geez, they violently killed 13 people, injured 24 (some who are paralysed for life) and destroyed the lives of so many others, but they weren't that bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:28 am

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It's just weird that you mentioned there should be a line between acts that can be forgiven and can't be in context to this thread when you were saying there are people who have done worse things than what Eric and Dylan did. Like geez, they violently killed 13 people, injured 24 (some who are paralysed for life) and destroyed the lives of so many others, but they weren't that bad.
I guess that's exactly what I'm saying huh? I guess I'm honestly saying that for me, I can forgive Eric and Dylan exclusively. The weight of a context of a deed will absolutely vary to different people.
Like I said, it's so.....nonchalant to say but, let's face it I am admitting I'm comparing evil here.
I don't know when I first learnt about Columbine it just clicked with me and I humanised them almost immediately. I see myself in both of them, and it's NO EXCUSE that they killed people. It's really not. I just have nothing else to add on. For the boys and coming from me I forgive them.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:23 pm

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ultraviolencelv wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So you don't feel that what Eric and Dylan did was all that heinous and that Eric and Dylan deserve forgiveness for their actions? I personally am getting really sick of all the sympathy and leniency revolving around Eric and Dylan and their actions. I would expect it on tumblr, but on here? Come on..

Interesting how people on this board have stated that Adam Lanza is a monster for killing six year olds (which is true), yet what Eric and Dylan did to high school kids they didn't even know is nowhere near as bad, apparently. Tell me again, what did Steven Curnow do to warrant being shot in the neck? If he had been six, would his death evoke more sympathy for him and more feelings of disgust towards his killer?

It was heinous. But for me I learnt enough about them to somehow settle that (and obviously i've humanised them) they were ordinary teens like most we know or how we or i was back then who needed help and got lost and hated themselves and went and shot up a school. It's almost unacceptable to weigh out evil deed and evil people and that's what I'm doing now I won't deny it, but I know that there are people way worse than the boys.

It's just weird that you mentioned there should be a line between acts that can be forgiven and can't be in context to this thread when you were saying there are people who have done worse things than what Eric and Dylan did. Like geez, they violently killed 13 people, injured 24 (some who are paralysed for life) and destroyed the lives of so many others, but they weren't that bad.


You must not be much of a reader of true crime. I've been a true crime buff for a lot of years and I read a true crime website daily and everyday I see several stories on there that are worse than what E &D did.
And I'm talking a lot worse.I think this must have warped my perspective a little because while you see E &D as some of the most evil people to ever live and their act to be the ultimate in evil, I'm remembering all the poor babies and toddlers I've read about that were tortured and raped(sometimes both) until they died,sometimes while people knew and did nothing, or the system failed them.There are so many stories that I've read that I can't and don't see E and D as the ultimate evil at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:32 pm

Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:04 am

I'm sure that Eric was capable of rape. I'm sure that he had thoughts about it. In the end, though, the killing wasn't about sex. It was about death. Stabbing someone is considered to be a penetrative act, and can be associated with sexual motives. It's literally penetrating someone, in order to kill them. I think that for them, the knives were that, a sexy part of the image, but they just didn't have that mindset that day. Hell, why didn't Eric rape any of the girls? I'm pretty sure they both could have done a fair bit there, with guns and all. It just wasn't about that, in the end. Just killing. Maybe it was a moral thing - there are many people in prison who will kill a rapist or pedophile, despite having murdered people. I think it was just way too personal and possibly sexual for comfort, and not the reason for being there.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:28 am

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Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333

If it's weird that people are willing to forgive them then the parents of the victims who have forgiven them are weird too. Look, if it makes an individual feel better, ready, and it's right to forgive them, then that's a personal place in them that they're dealing with and another person unable to see it the same way can't do anything about it really. And I don't know what else to tell you. I honestly forgive them, and I honestly see myself in them and have reached the level of self-loathe they went through which means I have experienced the kind of anger towards others where I wished I could hurt them and I never did it. I never said what the boys did wasn't wrong. And me forgiving them doesn't deem me as someone with poor judgement or can't understand various acts of evil. Trust me it doesn't alter my sense of conscience at all. So, it's basically that. Bubbles. Some people have forgiven the most horrendous things on this earth and even if it makes me flabbergasted it's really their own prerogative.

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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333


I can and do find sympathy for many people in circumstances that you have said you would not be able to or would want to feel the same but with E &D, its simply the fact that they are very relatable to me.I feel I deeply understand them and I experienced many of the same thoughts and feelings in the past that they used to have. I feel that I have been there.I feel a deep connection to them somehow and always have.Of course I am only one of probably hundreds over the years to feel such a connection and maybe its all a creation of all our minds and nothing more.
I realize not all bullied people, even severely bullied students would feel this way but that's what it was like for me.
E &D have meant a lot to me over the years and still do. There were times when I feel that it was the thought and memories of them that got me through bad periods of my life.

Now that I am older and have more and different perspectives, I realize how wrong what they did was and the pain they caused for their families and the victims families and how tragic the entire thing was.
I do not however see them as evil but as two incredibly young teenage boys who struggling with mental illness, depression, rage and hopelessness made a horrible ,horrible mistake that took their own lives as well as others.Endless potential was lost on that day.
What they did can never be justified or excused but I will always be very sympathetic towards them .
I am forever sympathetic towards the victims and their relatives but because of the different circumstances my sympathy is naturally different too.
I'm aware that to many people an attitude such as mine above is sick.That anything but hatred and disgust towards any killer is unacceptable.


All I can say is that if it is "sick". then it is and will be whatever it is.
I feel how I feel and I don't agree that it's sick or morally wrong at all but I can't convince anyone who sees it as such that it isn't. Just like I can't convince someone they deserve sympathy and understanding who feels they deserve nothing but hate and scorn.

I know this is a lengthy post but I wanted to explain where I'm coming from a little bit.And I know a lot of people won't be able to understand or relate to what I've said and I understand that .


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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:37 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333

If it's weird that people are willing to forgive them then the parents of the victims who have forgiven them are weird too. Look, if it makes an individual feel better, ready, and it's right to forgive them, then that's a personal place in them that they're dealing with and another person unable to see it the same way can't do anything about it really. And I don't know what else to tell you. I honestly forgive them, and I honestly see myself in them and have reached the level of self-loathe they went through which means I have experienced the kind of anger towards others where I wished I could hurt them and I never did it. I never said what the boys did wasn't wrong. And me forgiving them doesn't deem me as someone with poor judgement or can't understand various acts of evil. Trust me it doesn't alter my sense of conscience at all. So, it's basically that. Bubbles. Some people have forgiven the most horrendous things on this earth and even if it makes me flabbergasted it's really their own prerogative.

Fair enough, but I personally think their actions are unforgivable. Some of us have different thresholds for forgiveness as you've mentioned, but I personally could never pardon their actions. I don't think they died wanting forgiveness from strangers, anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333


I can and do find sympathy for many people in circumstances that you have said you would not be able to or would want to feel the same but with E &D, its simply the fact that they are very relatable to me.I feel I deeply understand them and I experienced many of the same thoughts and feelings  in the past that they used to have. I feel that I have been there.I feel a deep connection to them somehow and always have.Of course I am only one of probably hundreds over the years to feel such a connection and maybe its all a creation of all our minds and nothing more.
I realize not all bullied people, even severely bullied students would feel this way but that's what it was like for me.
E &D have meant a lot to me over the years and still do. There were times when I feel that it was the thought and memories of them that got me through bad periods of my life.

Now that I am older and have more and different perspectives, I realize how wrong what they did was and the pain they caused for their families and the victims families and how tragic the entire thing was.
I do not however see them as evil but as two incredibly young teenage boys who struggling with mental illness, depression, rage and hopelessness made a horrible ,horrible mistake that took their own lives as well as others.Endless potential was lost on that day.
What they did can never be justified or excused but I will always be very sympathetic towards them .
I am forever sympathetic towards the victims and their relatives but because of the different circumstances my sympathy is naturally different too.
I'm aware that to many people an attitude such as mine above is sick.That anything but hatred and disgust towards any killer is unacceptable.


All I can say is that if it is "sick". then it is and will be whatever it is.
I feel how I feel and I don't agree that it's sick or morally wrong at all but I can't convince anyone who sees it as such that it isn't. Just like I can't convince someone they deserve sympathy and understanding who feels they deserve nothing but hate and scorn.

I know this is a lengthy post but I wanted to explain where I'm coming from a little bit.And I know a lot of people won't be able to understand or relate to what I've said and I understand that .


I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I've stated before that I'm also sympathetic when it came to any mistreatment or bullying Eric and Dylan experienced prior to the massacre (although once again, I must point out that there are multiple accounts that they did the same to others), but I understand you are quite a spiritual person so that might have something to do with your personal attachment to Eric and Dylan on top of you apparently interpreting your own personal life experiences as paralleling what they went through. I really don't believe Columbine happened purely because Eric and Dylan were mistreated or bullied, nor do I think they were purely victims themselves prior to 4/20. I think there were so many other factors that contributed to their decision to go on a rampage, so that's one of several reasons why I don't have that sympathetic post-massacre view of them that others have.
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PostSubject: Re: Why Didn't They See Through With Knifing People?   Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, I've read about all sorts of awful crimes. Did I ever once say Eric and Dylan were the most evil people to exist? No. But just because they didn't rape and torture toddlers doesn't mean that they should be forgiven for violently killing 13 people, severely injuring others and tearing families (including their own) apart. I just think it's weird that people are willing to forgive Eric and Dylan considering what they did. But oh well, they were just totes misunderstood and relatable <33333


I can and do find sympathy for many people in circumstances that you have said you would not be able to or would want to feel the same but with E &D, its simply the fact that they are very relatable to me.I feel I deeply understand them and I experienced many of the same thoughts and feelings  in the past that they used to have. I feel that I have been there.I feel a deep connection to them somehow and always have.Of course I am only one of probably hundreds over the years to feel such a connection and maybe its all a creation of all our minds and nothing more.
I realize not all bullied people, even severely bullied students would feel this way but that's what it was like for me.
E &D have meant a lot to me over the years and still do. There were times when I feel that it was the thought and memories of them that got me through bad periods of my life.

Now that I am older and have more and different perspectives, I realize how wrong what they did was and the pain they caused for their families and the victims families and how tragic the entire thing was.
I do not however see them as evil but as two incredibly young teenage boys who struggling with mental illness, depression, rage and hopelessness made a horrible ,horrible mistake that took their own lives as well as others.Endless potential was lost on that day.
What they did can never be justified or excused but I will always be very sympathetic towards them .
I am forever sympathetic towards the victims and their relatives but because of the different circumstances my sympathy is naturally different too.
I'm aware that to many people an attitude such as mine above is sick.That anything but hatred and disgust towards any killer is unacceptable.


All I can say is that if it is "sick". then it is and will be whatever it is.
I feel how I feel and I don't agree that it's sick or morally wrong at all but I can't convince anyone who sees it as such that it isn't. Just like I can't convince someone they deserve sympathy and understanding who feels they deserve nothing but hate and scorn.

I know this is a lengthy post but I wanted to explain where I'm coming from a little bit.And I know a lot of people won't be able to understand or relate to what I've said and I understand that .


I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I've stated before that I'm also sympathetic when it came to any mistreatment or bullying Eric and Dylan experienced prior to the massacre (although once again, I must point out that there are multiple accounts that they did the same to others), but I understand you are quite a spiritual person so that might have something to do with your personal attachment to Eric and Dylan on top of you apparently interpreting your own personal life experiences as paralleling what they went through. I really don't believe Columbine happened purely because Eric and Dylan were mistreated or bullied, nor do I think they were purely victims themselves prior to 4/20. I think there were so many other factors that contributed to their decision to go on a rampage, so that's one of several reasons why I don't have that sympathetic post-massacre view of them that others have.


I thank you for reading what I said with an open mind and trying to understand where I am coming from.

_________________
We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski
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