Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Share | 
 

 Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Nirvana92

avatar

Posts : 358
Contribution Points : 32139
Join date : 2015-04-21

PostSubject: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:33 pm

I'm sure we've all seen the famous picture of Cho spread armed with his pistols aimed at the camera. I'm wondering though is that how he fired during the massacre? Or did he fire them each individually?

A typical Glock 19 mag holds 15 rounds, while a Walther P22 mag will hold 10 rounds. That's 5 more rounds in the Glock than the P22. To reload while firing two weapons he'd have to holster one gun, eject/inject a new mag, holster that gun, draw the other gun, and then eject/inject another clip before he could continue. That's probably a solid 10 second break every time he needed to reload.

I ask because:

A) I find it really hard to believe Cho could kill that many people with only a .22 in his hands. It makes since if he's shooting people with a 9mm and following up shots with the .22, but a .22 all on its own is a pretty weak caliber.

B) I recently read that someone attempted to "jump" Cho while he was reloading. Reloading a single pistol mag takes 2-3 seconds tops. It would seem to indicate though that he was spending decent time on reloading, which makes me think he really was "dual wielding" his pistols.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
sscc
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 1196
Contribution Points : 28593
Join date : 2016-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:00 pm

Wielding two guns seems like a real action movie thing. Based on the interview Ivan recently posted
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
he just reloaded the .22.

The guy says he was able to reload extremely quickly which, I'm guessing, he practiced a lot beforehand. If someone tried to jump him, it might have been because Cho was coming close and there was really no other choice. He was shooting everyone he could and there was no other way for them to protect themselves. People have successfully jumped gunmen before.

It seems like it would actually be much harder to shoot as many people if he had been using two guns. If someone jumped him, that would have been the end because it would have been a significant amount of time juggling and loading magazines. Just seems impractical.

It may not have been the largest caliber but this information from wikipedia gives you an idea of why there was such a high body count:
During this second assault, he had fired at least 174 rounds, killing thirty people and wounding seventeen more. All of the victims were shot at least three times each; of the thirty killed, twenty-eight were shot in the head
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades

avatar

Posts : 2381
Contribution Points : 28319
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:25 pm

Cho is unforgivingly amazing as a lone man with his execution that day to be honest.

And thanks for this thread, pretty good insight. I know zero about guns so, this helps alot.


_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:58 am

A .22 is often overlooked or not taken as seriously as say a 9mm, but it's important to note that, while the smallest caliber, it's lightweight enables it to travel for a mile + and when shot into a human, the round bounces around, doing crazy damage. I've seen cases where someone has been shot from above by a .22, it enters between the shoulder/neck area and passes through the heart, aorta, spleen, liver and lodged in a hip! Bigger calibers, and especially your ammunition choice (hollow point or the cheaper ammo for target practice) also plays a role. From an article:

Ball ammunition, for example, is notorious (in both handguns and rifles) for passing through the intended target (or drywall, OSB, vehicles, and so forth) and striking ‘unintended’ targets. For this reason, Hollow Point ammunition is used by most professionals and citizens. This is because upon striking a target, hollow points rapidly expand in diameter, which creates drag and slows the projectile, making it both larger and more likely to strike vital targets, while decreasing the likelihood that it will pass through the target.

Another important note to make is that Hollow Points, though they sound terrible and nefarious, are actually far safer to use for defense than is ball (which sounds pretty unimpressive) because of this reason. Hollow Points are *not* “Armor Piercing” rounds, and this means they are not regulated in any capacity (yet) though some are restricted to Military and L.E. purchases.
Back to top Go down
Misanthrope



Posts : 1
Contribution Points : 11276
Join date : 2017-07-01

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:59 pm

Quote :
In a backpack, he carried several chains, locks, a hammer, a knife, two handguns with nineteen 10- and 15-round magazines, and nearly 400 rounds of ammunition.

Simple, he was smart enough to carry a shitload of preloaded mags with him. Click click and you're done.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
STK

avatar

Posts : 711
Contribution Points : 18029
Join date : 2017-02-10
Location : Somewhere Hot and Dry

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:10 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Simple, he was smart enough to carry a shitload of preloaded mags with him. Click click and you're done.
He was also smart enough to use hollow points. And to lock the doors. And to shoot wounded people again. And to aim for the head and chest.

_________________
"The bombs with dynamite surcharged their deadly missiles fling,
And gaily on their fatal work the dumdum bullets sing."
- William Lloyd Garrison, Jr.'s parody of “Onward Christian Soldiers"
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:53 pm

Guest wrote:
A .22 is often overlooked or not taken as seriously as say a 9mm, but it's important to note that, while the smallest caliber, it's lightweight enables it to travel for a mile + and when shot into a human, the round bounces around, doing crazy damage. I've seen cases where someone has been shot from above by a .22, it enters between the shoulder/neck area and passes through the heart, aorta, spleen, liver and lodged in a hip! Bigger calibers, and especially your ammunition choice (hollow point or the cheaper ammo for target practice) also plays a role. From an article:

Ball ammunition, for example, is notorious (in both handguns and rifles) for passing through the intended target (or drywall, OSB, vehicles, and so forth) and striking ‘unintended’ targets. For this reason, Hollow Point ammunition is used by most professionals and citizens. This is because upon striking a target, hollow points rapidly expand in diameter, which creates drag and slows the projectile, making it both larger and more likely to strike vital targets, while decreasing the likelihood that it will pass through the target.

Another important note to make is that Hollow Points, though they sound terrible and nefarious, are actually far safer to use for defense than is ball (which sounds pretty unimpressive) because of this reason. Hollow Points are *not* “Armor Piercing” rounds, and this means they are not regulated in any capacity (yet) though some are restricted to Military and L.E. purchases.


His bullets were hollow pointed too.

Back to top Go down
InsaneIntruder
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 1659
Contribution Points : 28028
Join date : 2016-06-28
Location : my room

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:44 am

I don't think so. He probably would've been successfully tackled if he dual wielded because of the long time it takes to reload.

_________________
"Sometimes I think I'm going insane
I swear I might hijack a plane!

Don't push me, ’cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to lose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes
It makes me wonder how I keep from going under"
_________________
"I'm a mujahideen,
and I'm making a scene,
now you's gonna feel what the boom boom mean.
It's like 2pac said,
when I die I'm not dead.
We are the martyrs,
you're just smashed tomatoes!"
_________________
"Got issues on my mind like a fool from Columbine
Will I swallow my pride or take that ride?"
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TheGoodGuy

avatar

Posts : 169
Contribution Points : 15534
Join date : 2017-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:44 pm

I know the thread is a little old but I saw this video yesterday and Kristina mentions somewhere in the beginning "I think" that Cho wielded a handgun in each hand, I´m not sure what it´s worth but check it out

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Last edited by TheGoodGuy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to add the link)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:18 pm

@sscc wrote:

It seems like it would actually be much harder to shoot as many people if he had been using two guns. If someone jumped him, that would have been the end because it would have been a significant amount of time juggling and loading magazines. Just seems impractical.

i mean mercer got pushed back with a rifle..its also about luck somewhat..its not like lanza or kelley where they shot children or old people. College students can fight back
Back to top Go down
ploxiegens



Posts : 4
Contribution Points : 8256
Join date : 2017-10-30

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:27 am

Quote :
A .22 is often overlooked or not taken as seriously as say a 9mm, but it's important to note that, while the smallest caliber, it's lightweight enables it to travel for a mile + and when shot into a human, the round bounces around, doing crazy damage. I've seen cases where someone has been shot from above by a .22, it enters between the shoulder/neck area and passes through the heart, aorta, spleen, liver and lodged in a hip! Bigger calibers, and especially your ammunition choice (hollow point or the cheaper ammo for target practice) also plays a role. From an article:
The .22 bouncing around is fudd lore, and a meme.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:35 pm

I always found it odd that Cho only used the one gun during the shooting, like I didn't expect him to go in guns-blazing, dual-wielding and firing the two pistols at the same time like something out of a John Woo film but always imagined he used two guns each individually like e.g a couple of rounds fired from the 9mm followed up with subsequent fires from the .22 and reloaded whatever gun he felt needed to be reloaded but I guess realistically he couldn't as reloading would be hell of risk without a spare empty hand and I assure trying to aim and fire without your good hand would be tricky.

Cho with his manifesto pictures and the media really helped paint the picture that he was some dual-wielding assassin marching up and down the halls and classes. Was the 9mm even fired at all during the massacre? Not even a suicide shot from it?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
STK

avatar

Posts : 711
Contribution Points : 18029
Join date : 2017-02-10
Location : Somewhere Hot and Dry

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Was the 9mm even fired at all during the massacre? Not even a suicide shot from it?  
I seriously doubt Cho would have killed as many people as he did if his primary weapon was the .22, even taking into account the factors I've mentioned above; Why do you assume he would exclusively used the .22 over the 9mm?

_________________
"The bombs with dynamite surcharged their deadly missiles fling,
And gaily on their fatal work the dumdum bullets sing."
- William Lloyd Garrison, Jr.'s parody of “Onward Christian Soldiers"
Back to top Go down
View user profile
TheGoodGuy

avatar

Posts : 169
Contribution Points : 15534
Join date : 2017-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:51 am

No one has watched the video I linked above? Doesn´t seem like it, Kristina Anderson mentions Cho wielded 2 guns I´m not sure if it´s true but she is a witness and that is what she said somewhere in the beginning of the video
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:46 pm

@TheGoodGuy wrote:
No one has watched the video I linked above? Doesn´t seem like it, Kristina Anderson mentions Cho wielded 2 guns I´m not sure if it´s true but she is a witness and that is what she said somewhere in the beginning of the video

he could of had 2 out for a moment, while he fired only one gun at a time
Back to top Go down
TheGoodGuy

avatar

Posts : 169
Contribution Points : 15534
Join date : 2017-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:06 pm

-warrior wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
No one has watched the video I linked above? Doesn´t seem like it, Kristina Anderson mentions Cho wielded 2 guns I´m not sure if it´s true but she is a witness and that is what she said somewhere in the beginning of the video

he could of had 2 out for a moment, while he fired only one gun at a time

Yeah he could have, just wouldn´t make sense to me. But I too find it unlikely he would use two pistols at once as for mentioned he would have a hard time reloading them
Back to top Go down
View user profile
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Why do you assume he would exclusively used the .22 over the 9mm?
I don't know, thought the .22 was the main weapon rather the 9mm for whatever reason.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:14 pm

Just rereading the virginia tech report, it does seem to imply that Cho did seem use both the 9mm and .22 time to time. So my thought of him using the two guns each individually isn't that far fetched now.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ziamber II
Top Contributor
avatar

Posts : 962
Contribution Points : 15559
Join date : 2017-10-26
Age : 24
Location : England

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:18 pm

Once Cho has you in his sights, escape is impossible.
Dual-weild Cho.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Ivan
Miscellaneous Moderator


Posts : 3599
Contribution Points : 57133
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:20 am

I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
While he didn't fire them them both at the same time, the report does say multiple times that both weapons were used in the attack.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:09 pm

i just thought of something. what if cho went around the building twice. the first time he used the .22 to kill some and incapacitate the others. then he used the much more powerful glock to finish off the injured with 1 or 2 shots.
Back to top Go down
Ivan
Miscellaneous Moderator


Posts : 3599
Contribution Points : 57133
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:49 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
While he didn't fire them them both at the same time, the report does say multiple times that both weapons were used in the attack.
But more witnesses say that they encountered the .22, not the 9mm.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Ivan
Miscellaneous Moderator


Posts : 3599
Contribution Points : 57133
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:50 am

eldigato wrote:
i just thought of something. what if cho went around the building twice. the first time he used the .22 to kill some and incapacitate the others. then he used the much more powerful glock to finish off the injured with 1 or 2 shots.
The shooting has already been reconstructed and that's not what happened. He re-entered classrooms he exited and finished off victims but he didn't tour the whole building twice.

The shooting only went for 9-10 minutes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
While he didn't fire them them both at the same time, the report does say multiple times that both weapons were used in the attack.
But more witnesses say that they encountered the .22, not the 9mm.

Nope, he used both weapons.

Page 94 of the report
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Page 71
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:45 pm

@Ivan wrote:
eldigato wrote:
i just thought of something. what if cho went around the building twice. the first time he used the .22 to kill some and incapacitate the others. then he used the much more powerful glock to finish off the injured with 1 or 2 shots.
The shooting has already been reconstructed and that's not what happened. He re-entered classrooms he exited and finished off victims but he didn't tour the whole building twice.

The shooting only went for 9-10 minutes.

oh. I never really studied virginia tech, sorry.

maybe he had more ammo and clips for the .22 because it and the parts + ammo for it are cheaper then a glock +mags + 9mm
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:53 pm

is there any report on how many .22s he fired and how many 9mm he fired (not the total like seperately so we can see which one he used more)

Back to top Go down
sscc
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 1196
Contribution Points : 28593
Join date : 2016-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:26 pm

eldigato wrote:
is there any report on how many .22s he fired and how many 9mm he fired (not the total like seperately so we can see which one he used more)
I don't think so. This was all that it said in the report about the number of shots fired.
Quote :
Cho expended at least 174 bullets from two semiautomatic guns, his 9mm Glock and .22 caliber Walther, firing often at point-blank range. The police found 17 empty magazines, each capable of holding 10–15 bullets. Ammunition recovered included 203 live cartridges, 122 for the Glock and 81 for the Walther. The unexpended ammunition included two loaded 9mm magazines with 15 cartridges each and many loose bullets.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Miscellaneous Moderator


Posts : 3599
Contribution Points : 57133
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
While he didn't fire them them both at the same time, the report does say multiple times that both weapons were used in the attack.
But more witnesses say that they encountered the .22, not the 9mm.

Nope, he used both weapons.

Page 94 of the report
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Page 71
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
And that doesn't disprove the witness testimony either. He favored the .22 over the 9mm and actual witnesses back that up.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
UncontinuedProcess

avatar

Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 11743
Join date : 2017-10-22

PostSubject: Re: Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?   Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think this would be nearly impossible to do so I doubt he fired them both at once. I think he took exception to the .22 caliber pistol he bought too as opposed to the 9mm.
While he didn't fire them them both at the same time, the report does say multiple times that both weapons were used in the attack.
But more witnesses say that they encountered the .22, not the 9mm.

Nope, he used both weapons.

Page 94 of the report
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Page 71
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
And that doesn't disprove the witness testimony either. He favored the .22 over the 9mm and actual witnesses back that up.
I never said it disapprove the witness testimony, my point (which you clearly misunderstood) was that he used both guns regardless which one he preferred, I'm pretty sure the report would not only compile witness statements but also use the forensic and ballistic evidence provided to them which you seemed to have ignored. I'll go with the report on this, it says clearly that both .22 and 9mm was used regardless
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Did Cho fire both his guns at the same time?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» A fire heard (FINSHED!)*Pick n play*
» Fire Nation Noble Family Looks For Wife for the Vordannen Head of House
» Mini Dart Guns
» Fire Nation: Fire Nation Capital - Fire Lord's Palace ~ Flashing Back
» North Chung-Ling; the Fire Fountain City

Permissions in this forum:You can reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Other Crimes :: Other Mass Shootings-
Post new topic   Reply to topicJump to: