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 Eased into killing

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NotYourRobot



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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:16 pm

This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:15 am

NotYourRobot wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

Well...it's exactly that. Sure he wasn't totally silent but it's because he wasn't hooting and hollering, he went about the massacre very robotic and concentrated, made a few remarks too and that's it. Yeah he had that conversation with Bree and, that's pretty much it. I don't get what you mean. Are you trying to say he's not completely in a trance because he actually conversed with Bree? If that's the case, somehow he made the mistake of talking and questioning Bree too Long that she was humanised and emphatised enough to escape from dying. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] also said that the commotion going on over at Isaiah's side irritated him way too much to continue talking to Bree.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:27 am

NotYourRobot wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan. He certainly wasn't silent
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:10 am

Lizpuff wrote:
NotYourRobot wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan.  He certainly wasn't silent


I heard he was shouting orders to Dylan too, but only in the commons (check the bombs, check the windows etc...).

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:16 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
NotYourRobot wrote:
This might be a bit off topic but why does everyone keep saying Eric was stone-cold silent during the library murders? Sure he wasn't wooping it up like Dylan was but he wasn't a psycho killing machine either. He had a conversation with Bree and then let her live, whether by choice or because he was distracted by Dylan calling him over to torment Isaiah, is completely at odds with the whole they were in another reality theory.

He also was shouting military type orders out to Dylan.  He certainly wasn't silent


I heard he was shouting orders to Dylan too, but only in the commons (check the bombs, check the windows etc...).

They had a whole entire set of arm commands too. I wonder if they ever used those.
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NotYourRobot



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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:06 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What do you mean? They had discussed hand signals beforehand? That's terrifying to be honest
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:21 pm

NotYourRobot wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What do you mean? They had discussed hand signals beforehand? That's terrifying to be honest

Yes. Eric had a whole list of them. For example, Gun pointed to head=Suicide. It is quite bleak.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:21 pm

Here is the list:
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:30 pm

Eric also made comments about glasses and the quote from Monty Python. He was far from silent - I think Dylan just had the more audible voice through the alarms and screams.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:38 pm

Yeah basically all of the above. For some reason I'm positive they used hand signals. I do feel that they did the suicide signal and then just went with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:03 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Yeah basically all of the above. For some reason I'm positive they used hand signals. I do feel that they did the suicide signal and then just went with it.

I can see them using the signals. I don't know that I think they used the suicide one though IDK I just always feel it was somewhat of a surprise to Dylan that Eric shot himself so quick. I don't think he saw it coming.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:09 pm

I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:56 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.
I agree. I think Eric had reached his breaking point with failure - the bombs not going off in the cafeteria, his broken nose from the gun recoil, all the police presence and the low body count- he just wanted it to be over. He probably gave the hand sign for suicide. I think Eric knew exactly what type of gunshot wound would cause immediate death and shot himself before Dylan knew what was happening. I wonder if Dylan chose the Tec-9 for his suicide because that was the way he wanted or couldn't manage the shotgun.He wasn't the most efficient handling guns as I believe he pointed a gun with the safety off directly at Eric on one of the basement tapes. Did he know that a  head gunshot wound from his Tec-9 would not cause instant death? I would really like to knew what thoughts went through their minds that day especially from the time they entered the library the first time until the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:11 pm

spinvault wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
I think they might've used the suicide signal but Eric doing it ASAP was a surprise to Dylan yes. Like I think they both knew it was time but Dylan prolly thought they'd do it same time together.
I agree. I think Eric had reached his breaking point with failure - the bombs not going off in the cafeteria, his broken nose from the gun recoil, all the police presence and the low body count- he just wanted it to be over. He probably gave the hand sign for suicide. I think Eric knew exactly what type of gunshot wound would cause immediate death and shot himself before Dylan knew what was happening. I wonder if Dylan chose the Tec-9 for his suicide because that was the way he wanted or couldn't manage the shotgun.He wasn't the most efficient handling guns as I believe he pointed a gun with the safety off directly at Eric on one of the basement tapes. Did he know that a  head gunshot wound from his Tec-9 would not cause instant death? I would really like to knew what thoughts went through their minds that day especially from the time they entered the library the first time until the end.

I think he saw too many movies where the guy kills himself/someone else with a shot to the temple and thought it would do it. I don't think that Eric's manner of death had any impact. And yea he did point the guy at Eric many times. He had really no idea what he was doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:16 pm

I agree with everything PotatoSallad said and there is a lot of evidence for this view.

Dylan spared several people in the course of the massacre. Dylan Klebold stepped over Sean Graves and spoke to him but didn't shoot him. He backed away from Lauren Waterbury when she was standing right in his tracks. He told John Savage to flee.

Dylan also passed up opportunities to hurt large crowds of students. After Dylan stepped over Sean Graves, he could have fired into the cafeteria and killed more than 13 students in a few seconds but he did not. When he went into the school himself, he could have shot fleeing students in the back, but he only shot Stephanie Munson in the foot, which either shows poor aim or a conscious decision to shoot at the floor and at inanimate objects

Dylan discarded more ammunition than he fired. Dylan left 34 rounds in his car in the parking lot. He left a 50-round magazine outside with 40 rounds in it. He dropped another 7 shotgun shells near the entrance to the library. That's 83 bullets discarded to the 67 he fired. Makes you wonder if he and Eric did not have some tacit agreement to give up when the ammo ran out and Dylan was trying to hasten the end.

Though I do not think it is as simple as saying that Dylan alone was reluctant to kill. For example, Eric did not even go into the school until he had spent several minutes shooting at the soccer field and police outside, essentially guaranteeing that most had fled. There was nothing stopping Eric from going into the cafeteria like Dylan. Eric had to have known that he could shoot more students in the cafeteria than on the soccer field. Quite possibly it was cowardice on his part or fear of being jumped, but the desire of both to confront and kill students seems to have ebbed and flowed over the course of the hour.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:21 pm

lasttrain wrote:
I agree with everything PotatoSallad said and there is a lot of evidence for this view.

Dylan spared several people in the course of the massacre. Dylan Klebold stepped over Sean Graves and spoke to him but didn't shoot him. He backed away from Lauren Waterbury when she was standing right in his tracks. He told John Savage to flee.

Dylan also passed up opportunities to hurt large crowds of students. After Dylan stepped over Sean Graves, he could have fired into the cafeteria and killed more than 13 students in a few seconds but he did not. When he went into the school himself, he could have shot fleeing students in the back, but he only shot Stephanie Munson in the foot, which either shows poor aim or a conscious decision to shoot at the floor and at inanimate objects

Dylan discarded more ammunition than he fired. Dylan left 34 rounds in his car in the parking lot. He left a 50-round magazine outside with 40 rounds in it. He dropped another 7 shotgun shells near the entrance to the library. That's 83 bullets discarded to the 67 he fired. Makes you wonder if he and Eric did not have some tacit agreement to give up when the ammo ran out and Dylan was trying to hasten the end.

Though I do not think it is as simple as saying that Dylan alone was reluctant to kill. For example, Eric did not even go into the school until he had spent several minutes shooting at the soccer field and police outside, essentially guaranteeing that most had fled. There was nothing stopping Eric from going into the cafeteria like Dylan. Eric had to have known that he could shoot more students in the cafeteria than on the soccer field. Quite possibly it was cowardice on his part or fear of being jumped, but the desire of both to confront and kill students seems to have ebbed and flowed over the course of the hour.


Exactly!

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:43 am

I don't know [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. It's hard to think that it's just as simple as that; that Dylan had to be eased into killing. And why would he, why would he let people go? And now Eric had some reluctance too? Even if I were to settle on that I go back to how they were in the library and they most certainly weren't afraid executing kids face to face even, when most amateurs can't kill someone they look at or talk to. The only thing I can feel is that all the "sparing of people" and shooting aimlessly was at the beginning when I would understand if the high had not kicked in yet.
Here's a way to make it clearer; did Dylan kill anyone when Eric wasn't looking? The people that he shot, Eric was with him yes?

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:42 am

I tend to think the facts lasttrain pointed out are interesting but do not show any real remorse or anything on Dylan's part. Yes he did seem to spare some people. Tim Castle and Savage for example, but I in no way think that means he didn't want to kill. Maybe he just didn't want to kill everyone like Eric did. Maybe there were still some good people out there in Dylan's eyes as opposed to Eric who seemed to want everyone (Except for a few non mentioned) dead.

As for dropping ammo....I think it points more to his inexperience and nervousness. I think he forgot the clip in his car and fumbled and dropped the other ammo.

Sure he didn't shoot at all possible times that he had targets but I think at that point when he entered the cafe he had a mind to check the bombs.

And I also blame his missing victims not as sparing someone or trying to give warning type shots but to the fact that he was a terrible aim and probably high on adrenaline. Guy couldn't even really hit a bowling pin to save his own life.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:01 am

Why does everyone say that they spared Tim Castle, as far as I know he ran outside, they shot at him and missed and he ran back inside. They just missed not spared him. Just bugs me.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:12 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
Why does everyone say that they spared Tim Castle, as far as I know he ran outside, they shot at him and missed and he ran back inside. They just missed not spared him. Just bugs me.

Tim was in the ceiling near the commons. Supposedly Dylan stuck his head up into the ceiling and saw Tim. Tim states he had a major opportunity to shoot him since he had no cover but that Dylan recognized him and didn't shoot him. He then said Dylan then simply went back down.
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:16 am

Yeah Dylan saw him face to face. Dylan knew Tim beforehand. They used to play what was it, baseball fantasy league? together.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 am

Dylan wasn't eased at all... This one line and his action tells me he was in it...

"Sure.... I'll help you....." BOOM
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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 am

Thank YOU [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:37 am

deathmedic wrote:
Dylan wasn't eased at all... This one line and his action tells me he was in it...

"Sure.... I'll help you....." BOOM


I don't beleve that exchange ever happened.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:38 am

PotatoSallad wrote:
I don't beleve that exchange ever happened.
Why would you deny witness account?

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:39 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
PotatoSallad wrote:
I don't beleve that exchange ever happened.
Why would you deny witness account?

Yes I would.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:40 am

Quote :
Dylan shot Danny Rohrbough, who was on the floor, in chest and stomach at close range. Lance Kirklin, who’d been injured from shots to his chest and leg, was lying next to the stairwell and saw a shape loom over him. He had no idea who it was, and asked for help.

It was Dylan, who said: “Help you? Sure, I’ll help you.” He fired; Lance felt something warm near his jaw, heard Dan Rohrbough blow out his final breath, and lost consciousness.

Do you wanna ask Lance or Sean themselves?

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:42 am

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Lance and Sean survived, I feel the most for those two so I really wouldn't try doubting what they experienced that day.

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:48 am

I do have some question in my mind about whether or not that exchange happened. Same as I question Richard. But if it did happen that was downright bone chilling

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PostSubject: Re: Eased into killing   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:49 am

LANCE Kirklin got that said to him. Lance. He didn't get his face deformed and watch his friend die infront of him for him to be doubted. Why would he make a sentence up? Cause he was mad at Dylan? Do you think they're that bored?

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