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 How good was their marksmanship?

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aquillina



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PostSubject: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:26 pm

I've heard people say that Eric and Dylan were lousy shots despite their target practice session at Rampart Range. They definitely were not sharpshooters, like it really mattered to them just as long as they get to shoot.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:50 pm

Terrible shots with terrible weapons I believe.

I guess it takes more than a couple of afternoons in the woods to become a half decent shot too.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:21 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I've heard people say that Eric and Dylan were lousy shots despite their target practice session at Rampart Range. They definitely were not sharpshooters, like it really mattered to them just as long as they get to shoot.
Seung Hui Cho also only went to a gun range once. He ended up being a much better shot than both Eric and Dylan.

I think a lot of it had to do with their age, lack of a plan and the fact they had terrible guns.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Seung Hui Cho also only went to a gun range once. He ended up being a much better shot than both Eric and Dylan.

I think a lot of it had to do with their age, lack of a plan and the fact they had terrible guns.

I don't know how many times he went in total, but the guy at one nearby range said Cho was there 3 times in the six weeks before the massacre.

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The Virginia Tech gunman who with deadly efficiency gunned down 32 students and teachers Monday apparently practiced his craft at a remote outdoor shooting range 8 miles from his dormitory.

"I can't hardly remember a name but I never forget a face and it was him," Randy Elmore said Friday as he scavenged shell casings from a Jefferson National Forest shooting range where he said he witnessed Seung-Hui Cho practicing his marksmanship.

In the weeks before the deadly shootings, Cho familiarized himself with a handgun firing at a cardboard box 25 yards away under the brow of Brush Mountain, Elmore said.

"He never said nothing. He wouldn't look at nobody and would fire off maybe a box of shells and then leave," said Elmore who collects brass shell casings from the range and redeems them for scrap money.

That made Cho a person of noninterest for Elmore. "He didn't shoot nothing but .22's; at least I never heard a pop that sounded bigger."

Elmore said he saw Cho about three times in the past six weeks. He never saw a vehicle or clothing any more provocative than a pair of jeans. But during those weeks, Elmore said, Cho's hair had not been shaved close to his head, the style the 23-year-old senior apparently affected for Monday's rampage.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Seung Hui Cho also only went to a gun range once. He ended up being a much better shot than both Eric and Dylan.

I think a lot of it had to do with their age, lack of a plan and the fact they had terrible guns.

I don't know how many times he went in total, but the guy at one nearby range said Cho was there 3 times in the six weeks before the massacre.

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The Virginia Tech gunman who with deadly efficiency gunned down 32 students and teachers Monday apparently practiced his craft at a remote outdoor shooting range 8 miles from his dormitory.

"I can't hardly remember a name but I never forget a face and it was him," Randy Elmore said Friday as he scavenged shell casings from a Jefferson National Forest shooting range where he said he witnessed Seung-Hui Cho practicing his marksmanship.

In the weeks before the deadly shootings, Cho familiarized himself with a handgun firing at a cardboard box 25 yards away under the brow of Brush Mountain, Elmore said.

"He never said nothing. He wouldn't look at nobody and would fire off maybe a box of shells and then leave," said Elmore who collects brass shell casings from the range and redeems them for scrap money.

That made Cho a person of noninterest for Elmore. "He didn't shoot nothing but .22's; at least I never heard a pop that sounded bigger."

Elmore said he saw Cho about three times in the past six weeks. He never saw a vehicle or clothing any more provocative than a pair of jeans. But during those weeks, Elmore said, Cho's hair had not been shaved close to his head, the style the 23-year-old senior apparently affected for Monday's rampage.
I get the impression he didn't go to the gun range often. He didn't grow up around guns and it was only himself that introduced him to them.

I think he killed as many as he did because he used a handgun and aimed for the head, Eric and Dylan shot people anywhere. Learning how to use a handgun is easier than learning how to use a shotgun, for starters the kickback isn't nearly as prominent and it's easier to hold/maneuver.


In any case, 3 times at a gun range is hardly a marked difference from the one or two times Eric and Dylan went. I also don't believe he went before the 6 weeks because he didn't own a gun at that point -- and arriving at a location without a gun, without prior interest in guns and his history I think he'd have been a sitting duck.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Seung Hui Cho also only went to a gun range once. He ended up being a much better shot than both Eric and Dylan.

I think a lot of it had to do with their age, lack of a plan and the fact they had terrible guns.

I don't know how many times he went in total, but the guy at one nearby range said Cho was there 3 times in the six weeks before the massacre.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
The Virginia Tech gunman who with deadly efficiency gunned down 32 students and teachers Monday apparently practiced his craft at a remote outdoor shooting range 8 miles from his dormitory.

"I can't hardly remember a name but I never forget a face and it was him," Randy Elmore said Friday as he scavenged shell casings from a Jefferson National Forest shooting range where he said he witnessed Seung-Hui Cho practicing his marksmanship.

In the weeks before the deadly shootings, Cho familiarized himself with a handgun firing at a cardboard box 25 yards away under the brow of Brush Mountain, Elmore said.

"He never said nothing. He wouldn't look at nobody and would fire off maybe a box of shells and then leave," said Elmore who collects brass shell casings from the range and redeems them for scrap money.

That made Cho a person of noninterest for Elmore. "He didn't shoot nothing but .22's; at least I never heard a pop that sounded bigger."

Elmore said he saw Cho about three times in the past six weeks. He never saw a vehicle or clothing any more provocative than a pair of jeans. But during those weeks, Elmore said, Cho's hair had not been shaved close to his head, the style the 23-year-old senior apparently affected for Monday's rampage.
I get the impression he didn't go to the gun range often. He didn't grow up around guns and it was only himself that introduced him to them.

I think he killed as many as he did because he used a handgun and aimed for the head, Eric and Dylan shot people anywhere. Learning how to use a handgun is easier than learning how to use a shotgun, for starters the kickback isn't nearly as prominent and it's easier to hold/maneuver.


In any case, 3 times at a gun range is hardly a marked difference from the one or two times Eric and Dylan went. I also don't believe he went before the 6 weeks because he didn't own a gun at that point -- and arriving at a location without a gun, without prior interest in guns and his history I think he'd have been a sitting duck.
I think you are correct that it's not much of a difference when you have no prior experience and that the number of victims killed was mostly due to the circumstances. I get the feeling that Cho was probably more serious about learning how to shoot accurately to maximize his damage and that Eric and Dylan were expecting their bombs to do most of the killing. If not, it's odd that Eric and Dylan didn't do more practicing with their guns but maybe that was due to the fact that theirs would be harder to conceal and they were living with their parents, going to school every day and working part time and they simply had to keep up appearances more strictly. Still, they were planning for longer and had their guns and ammunition earlier than Cho did so I wonder about that.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:28 pm

So if Eric and Dylan were to face off Cho Seung Hui in a gun battle, who do you think would win? No disrespect meant whatsoever.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So if Eric and Dylan were to face off Cho Seung Hui in a gun battle, who do you think would win? No disrespect meant whatsoever.
Seung Hui Cho, no questions asked.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:04 am

Also Cho had a circumstance that presented itself greatly which was that he just entered classrooms one by one and shot at everybody who was inside, right? They barricaded themselves in thinking it was safe but he just went in and shot everyone classroom to classroom. Cho's body count success had a lot to do with the circumstances that day too and where everybody were, he wasn't really all over the place.

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Last edited by ultraviolencelv on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:06 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Also Cho had a circumstance that presented itself greatly which was that he just entered classrooms one by one and shot at everybody who as inside, right? They barricades themselves in thinking it was safe but he just went in and shot everyone classroom to classroom. Cho's body count success had a lot to do with the circumstances that day too and where everybody were, he wasn't really all over the place.
Nobody thought it was safe that day. What else could they have done? They did even less at Columbine.

One thing that isn't addressed is Seung killed 30 people in less than 10 minutes. Eric and Dylan spent an hour killing 13 people. That's a huge difference. There was also 2 shooters at Columbine, one at Virginia Tech. That makes things easier for Eric and Dylan.

I still feel the guns and their age is what let them down. If they used the same weapons as Seung, they'd have probably killed more people.


Last edited by Ivan on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:10 am

Because they were all packed in classrooms, I remember that's how it was. It's like they were waiting for Cho to come in and just take them out.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:11 am

Cho chained the doors shut before he started shooting too, so it's not like they could just run away.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:19 am

Yup that's it that's the one, he chained the doors. I remember thinking that it was tragically genius of him to do that.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:38 am

Oh yeah remember I Cho chaining the doors shut and to me I find that more ruthless. Now there's no way to escape. Except maybe jumping through a window if that helps.

I believe Eric and Dylan were also limited to what they could get. Even with Robyn's help they could never get their hands on any regular handguns or anything else fancy.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:45 am

I noticed that sole gunmen have much success with taking out many at once but of course obviously with good guns. James Holmes, in the theatre, Omar Mateen in the packed club. Imagine if Eric and Dylan were as good as these two and they were more strategic with their directions I'm sure they'd have taken out a lot more.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:06 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I noticed that sole gunmen have much success with taking out many at once but of course obviously with good guns. James Holmes, in the theatre, Omar Mateen in the packed club. Imagine if Eric and Dylan were as good as these two and they were more strategic with their directions I'm sure they'd have taken out a lot more.
No way would Eric and Dylan have pulled off what Timothy McVeigh or what the Tsarnaev brothers did.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:21 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
I noticed that sole gunmen have much success with taking out many at once but of course obviously with good guns. James Holmes, in the theatre, Omar Mateen in the packed club. Imagine if Eric and Dylan were as good as these two and they were more strategic with their directions I'm sure they'd have taken out a lot more.
No way would Eric and Dylan have pulled off what Timothy McVeigh or what the Tsarnaev brothers did.

I don't know, I would rank the Tsarnaevs on the same level as E&D. Didn't they only manage to kill 3 people with their bombs? And their standoff with the police was sloppy, like a last resort type deal that ended up getting the older brother killed (and run over by the younger brother). I feel like their plan was just as botched as E&D's
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:29 am

The boys sucked at both shooting and bombing, thankfully.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:31 am

I wouldn't count the Tsarnaev's plot to have botched considering their bomb actually blew up lol. I can't recall a statement wanting to kill many but it's something to do with Islam and being a Martyr or whatever. I always thought the Boston marathon bombing was very very random and Tamerlan fed dzhokhar many crap.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:02 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] haha that's true, the Tsarnaevs' bombs actually worked! I figured their intentions were to kill a lot of people since they chose a fairly populated event and dropped their bombs off right in with the crowds. I don't think they were looking to get a body count comparable to Timothy McVeigh's or anything, but I feel like they expected to take out a decent amount of people. And their whole interaction with police was messy AF.

But I'm getting a little too off topic here!
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:16 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
The boys sucked at both shooting and bombing, thankfully.
Not gonna lie and I agree with what Ivan said, their guns were terrible. As I've mentioned they could never afford anything fancy even with Robyn's help.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:47 am

It should also be noted that despite their pre-massacre boasting, when Eric and Dylan chose to improvise plan b, it was apparent that their main objective was not to kill as many people as possible. We all know they went on a power trip and revelled in playing God. Unlike mass shooters of today who treat their massacres like some macabre body count competition. It's utterly pathetic either way.
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:34 am

I think when they realised they couldn't kill a mass amount of people via bombing and had to do it themselves face to face, they might've been a little nervous about it, they had to improvise and shoot and random people they come across, and secondly the school had basically evacuated by then and were hiding, scattered, the boys didn't know where to go. Like when they had to get to plan b the high lasted really quick.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:36 am

I got secondhand embarrassment watching Rampart Range when Dylan turned that Tec 9 to the side.... like copying every movie he had ever seen.

That right there tells me all I need to know about what he knew about guns.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:37 am

They thought they could leave the bomb doing their work with killing many but when it failed they had to shoot, and the shooting spree pretty much sucked. They had the library where some of the students compiled together, making it easy for a one by one take out.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:29 pm

And even then it only last like 7 minutes
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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:27 pm

Sue stated that their family never had a gun in the house so that kind of says right there that Dylan didn't have much experience with guns even if he did read up on them.
I can believe it if Eric had a bit more with his father and brother both being in the military, but I don't think it was much at that.
With a mix of crappy guns, that they then altered, I don't think they knew really how to control them. You can see in their range videos (and even the videos with the fake "guns") with how the guns fly out of their hands, how they basically hold them, and how they shoot.
I haven't dissected their videos much in depth, but I noticed that they never really aim. They just kind of hold their guns and try to shoot in a general area.
I think it's just simply the inexperience with their guns that made them have such terrible aim. That and what [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said. They planned on shooting, but when the bombs never went off it really hit them that they were going in and the nerves came and went quickly and the power trip started. Plus, before this point. They never shot another human so they probably for the first few didn't know what and where to shoot so they just randomly shot at people.

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PostSubject: Re: How good was their marksmanship?   Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:11 pm

I just wanted to add that although they did plan for the bombs to kill many people, according to the basement tapes, it seems that going into the school to shoot people was always part of the plan and not a plan B.

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We're hoping. We're hoping. I hope we kill 250 of you. It will be the most nerve-racking 15 minutes of my life, after the bombs are set and we're waiting to charge through the school. Seconds will be like hours. I can't wait. I'll be shaking like a leaf.
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