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 Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?

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PostSubject: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:06 pm

i believe so , moving all the time , gaining friends and losing them pretty quick , he didnt had a fixed place to properly grow up . Eric says in his goodbye video in the morning before the shooting spree .

dylan on the other hand was in littleton most of his life , so it was easier in a way for dylan .

dylan had more to lose than eric , i think .


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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:59 am

Sometimes it's enough to weigh out both of their issues or who had more to lose but if you think about it they are almost equal. I could see why Dylan had more to lose but it doesn't determine that Eric being a mess or always experiencing loss is any less than Dylan's depression which he always had. In fact to me Eric still had a sense of trying to gain people's love and acceptance and tried to adapt in Colorado until people and his dad kept letting him down. You can't really say that Eric never tried to fit in cause he did. Dylan had everything and it seemed like he was ungrateful but it's because he was sick so he always had a void in him.

And like you brought up, if Eric still said goodbye and apologised to his family on tape, still cried over his old friends, does it really make him more of a mess? Or someone who was still human? I think for me when I think or define mess I think of Dylan; someone who was already doomed and out of touch with the world and his actions by the end.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sometimes it's enough to weigh out both of their issues or who had more to lose but if you think about it they are almost equal. I could see why Dylan had more to lose but it doesn't determine that Eric being a mess or always experiencing loss is any less than Dylan's depression which he always had. In fact to me Eric still had a sense of trying to gain people's love and acceptance and tried to adapt in Colorado until people and his dad kept letting him down. You can't really say that Eric never tried to fit in cause he did. Dylan had everything and it seemed like he was ungrateful but it's because he was sick so he always had a void in him.

And like you brought up, if Eric still said goodbye and apologised to his family on tape, still cried over his old friends, does it really make him more of a mess? Or someone who was still human? I think for me when I think or define mess I think of Dylan; someone who was already doomed and out of touch with the world and his actions by the end.

what you mean dylan was already doomed ? He had college in front of him , even went to pick up his dorm room .

i think dylan would achieve more sucess in his later years than eric to be honest .

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
what you mean dylan was already doomed

Meaning that it didn't matter what he had or what was to come. He no longer cared and he was ready to die now that NBK was going to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:37 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sometimes it's enough to weigh out both of their issues or who had more to lose but if you think about it they are almost equal. I could see why Dylan had more to lose but it doesn't determine that Eric being a mess or always experiencing loss is any less than Dylan's depression which he always had. In fact to me Eric still had a sense of trying to gain people's love and acceptance and tried to adapt in Colorado until people and his dad kept letting him down. You can't really say that Eric never tried to fit in cause he did. Dylan had everything and it seemed like he was ungrateful but it's because he was sick so he always had a void in him.

And like you brought up, if Eric still said goodbye and apologised to his family on tape, still cried over his old friends, does it really make him more of a mess? Or someone who was still human? I think for me when I think or define mess I think of Dylan; someone who was already doomed and out of touch with the world and his actions by the end.

what you mean dylan was already doomed ? He had college in front of him , even went to pick up his dorm room .

i think dylan would achieve more sucess in his later years than eric to be honest .


I have said this before but comparing to my own life experience I think college had Dylan gone, could have gone 2 ways. If he had gone and found friends he could have had a great time. College is a lot less restrictive than high school. But college does tend to bring out depression in people. If Dylan had gotten more depressed also adding in that he was away from friends, family, and everything familiar, I don't think things would have gone well at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:25 am

So even if Dylan did attend ASU do you think he would have still had the desire to shoot up another school something? What would have happened to Eric if NBK never occurred? Both boys had issues of their own and neither of them were able to handle it themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So even if Dylan did attend ASU do you think he would have still had the desire to shoot up another school something? What would have happened to Eric if NBK never occurred? Both boys had issues of their own and neither of them were able to handle it themselves.

I don't think he would have planned a shooting at his college, but my own personal opinion is that he may have attempted suicide if things hadn't gone well at college. I know in high school it seemed he needed a push to die, but I think being away from home and family may have resulted in the same push.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:07 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

dylan had more to lose than eric , i think .

Probably yes. He believed in love and was quite obsessed with its most pure representation. Dylan had to endure all of the hate which shared with Eric, plus the anger and the bitterness derived from not being able to spot in real life what he was constantly searching for.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:12 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Probably yes. He believed in love and was quite obsessed with its most pure representation. Dylan had to endure all of the hate which shared with Eric, plus the anger and the bitterness derived from not being able to spot in real life what he was constantly searching for.

He had more to lose because he desired love? I thought that it was because he actually had a good thing coming for him once he graduated and even prior, in terms of good friends and a caring family. His life was pretty set from the get-go and he had everything going for him. Now Eric, he's another story. I would understand if He felt like it didn't matter if he committed the massacre.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Probably yes. He believed in love and was quite obsessed with its most pure representation. Dylan had to endure all of the hate which shared with Eric, plus the anger and the bitterness derived from not being able to spot in real life what he was constantly searching for.

He had more to lose because he desired love? I thought that it was because he actually had a good thing coming for him once he graduated and even prior, in terms of good friends and a caring family. His life was pretty set from the get-go and he had everything going for him. Now Eric, he's another story. I would understand if He felt like it didn't matter if he committed the massacre.

right , i feel the same way .

eric didnt had real prospects . He apllied for the marines and it was no go because of his medication . I think he didnt even wait to know if he was accepted or not in the marines .

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:34 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eric didnt had real prospects . He apllied for the marines and it was no go because of his medication . I think he didnt even wait to know if he was accepted or not in the marines .

Thank you for bringing this up! I forgot about that. Yes. He had lost close friends due to the constant moving, he felt inferior from his brother and is always trying to gain his father's acceptance, his marine application was a no go, I mean he was always trying and trying and he wasn't holding back with admitting it down in his journal about always being rejected. This was a boy who knew he had literally nothing and had tried but failed. If anyone should get utmost sympathy it's him. Having said that if Eric was alive the funny thing is he would hate if people took pity on him so he put up this angry front causing people to think he was sociopath or whatever they accused him of.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:38 pm

I'm equally sympathetic to both boys because I believe both had so much potential. They just were never give the chance to prove themselves. For a long time though I've always questioned how Wayne and Kathy parented Eric. Diane Sawyer described Wayne as a "leave it to beaver dad", whatever that means. Is it really true?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:33 am

I really wish Eric hadn't had all these issues and needed medication, otherwise, he might have been accepted into the Marine Corps and this whole thing would have been avoided.  I believe, without a doubt, that without Eric by his side Dylan did not have the gumption to pull NBK off.  I'm not saying that Eric is the big bad guy who persuaded poor little Dylan.....I'm just saying that depression often leaves you incapable of doing anything productive and I don't think Dylan had it in him to plan and execute NBK by himself. Ultimately, yes I feel Dylan had more to lose.  But I also feel like he was more of a mess than Eric as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:40 am

One thing that blows my mind is how Dylan was planning to kill these kids who he had known since pre-school and kindergarten.  Doesn't that just sound weird? Eric hadn't known them that long.  But Dylan had.  That just goes to show the amount of hatred and rage he actually had inside of him. Between the two of them, Dylan scares me the most.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:26 am

For me I think that Eric shouldn't haven't met Dylan. Yeah Dylan needed a reason to kill himself but Dylan motivated Eric to make the killing of people come true. End of the day who was one who did all the meticulous planing? Eric. Eric gave up. Dylan gave up Long ago.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:29 am

Dylan had more to lose so his depression made him seem ungrateful of all that he had but Eric actually bothered and tried and addressed his issues. I think many people overlooked him and failed him. I think he would have given life a shot if something that mattered to him gave him a reason to.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:56 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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eric didnt had real prospects . He apllied for the marines and it was no go because of his medication . I think he didnt even wait to know if he was accepted or not in the marines .

Thank you for bringing this up! I forgot about that. Yes. He had lost close friends due to the constant moving, he felt inferior from his brother and is always trying to gain his father's acceptance, his marine application was a no go, I mean he was always trying and trying and he wasn't holding back with admitting it down in his journal about always being rejected. This was a boy who knew he had literally nothing and had tried but failed. If anyone should get utmost sympathy it's him. Having said that if Eric was alive the funny thing is he would hate if people took pity on him so he put up this angry front causing people to think he was sociopath or whatever they accused him of.

Agree with this 100%. The sad thing about Eric is how hard he tried in every aspect of his life, from his schoolwork, his jobs, relationships etc, and in his mind he probably felt like he couldn't catch a break and was getting nowhere. He seemed to feel like he was often overlooked and not taken seriously, which probably contributed to his desperation to prove himself through the shooting.

I think both of them were a mess in their own ways. Sometimes I feel like Dylan was worse off than Eric and other times I feel the opposite. I think Dylan was definitely the better manipulator/actor/liar of the two.

Kinda OT but the more I've learned about E&D the more sympathy I have for Eric over Dylan. A lot of that probably comes from the popular belief that Dylan was an innocent lead astray and that Eric is just a cold blooded sociopath - end of story. It kinda bugs me that Eric is always demonized while his partner in crime, who all evidence suggests came up with the idea of shooting up their school, gets all the sympathy. And I know a lot of that is thanks to Dylan's mom and others speaking out and defending his character. Truth is, Both of them are equally guilty and responsible for the shooting. Both were screwed up enough to commit mass murder, and it bothers me that some people think only one of them should be blamed.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:29 am

dylan was quite a curious guy , i mean , he let john savage go during the shooting while others were being murdered in cold blood .

the majority of the testimonies given by the kids that survived the library massacre said that was dylan that was all laughing and enjoying the most .

maybe eric wasnt so thrilled like dylan because he was hit in the nose by the recoil of the shotgun when he shoot cassie bernall ( i think he was like aiming down the sights with the shotgun , and by doing that he put the back of the shotgun close to his face , so when it fired it hit him ) .


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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] John savage sweetie. And I think partly all the hooting and hollering from Dylan was to pump Eric up.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:36 am

I will always be behind Eric. That was a boy who could've gotten help and had proved his efforts many time and he could be a nice guy. And at the least of the two Eric was the one who apologised to his family on tape. He treasured his old friends and was miserable for moving. He shouldn't have gone to Colorado.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:37 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] John savage sweetie. And I think partly all the hooting and hollering from Dylan was to pump Eric up.

lol sorry , i was confusing his name with the actor fred savage , i corrected the mistake .

why you think he was trying pump eric up ? wasnt eric pumped enough ? i think it was eric that killed most of the kids .
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:39 am

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I will always be behind Eric. That was a boy who could've gotten help and had proved his efforts many time and he could be a nice guy. And at the least of the two Eric was the one who apologised to his family on tape. He treasured his old friends and was miserable for moving. He shouldn't have gone to Colorado.

he didnt have a choice , his father was the one moving around all the time .
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:43 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

why you think he was trying pump eric up ? wasnt eric pumped enough ? i think it was eric that killed most of the kid
I think that he had to make sure Eric was still into it and he will continue till the end where they both kill themselves cause Dylan had one goal in mind that day and that was to determine he will be dead, and he couldn't do it alone. The bomb failure prob bummed Eric out for abit and then you mentioned the nose injury.

I'm still not sure if the overheard "you still With me?" Line in the library is true but if someone did say that I'd bet it was Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:50 am

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why you think he was trying pump eric up ? wasnt eric pumped enough ? i think it was eric that killed most of the kid
I think that he had to make sure Eric was still into it and he will continue till the end where they both kill themselves cause Dylan had one goal in mind that day and that was to determine he will be dead, and he couldn't do it alone. The bomb failure prob bummed Eric out for abit and then you mentioned the nose injury.

I'm still not sure if the overheard "you still With me?" Line in the library is true but if someone did say that I'd bet it was Dylan.

yes , i think the complete sentece was : “are you still with me? we're still gonna do this, right? " . It was Lisa Kreutz that said it . Her account does place the “are you still with me? we’re still gonna do this, right?” upon Eric and Dylan entering the library for the first time. And if that’s the case, then I do think that Eric was checking in with Dylan to see if they were still on the same page. Dylan had been running around like a headless chicken – certainly taking some shots and throwing pipebombs, but not really staying on task and focused just yet. Think Eric was concerned that Dylan wouldn’t quite pull through, and was checking in with him on that.
However, it’s also interesting to note that Lisa is the only one who reported hearing this. It is entirely possible that she miscalculated when she had heard this particular thing, as she also reports having heard the gunmen talking in/outside the library when she was the only conscious person left in the room. It’s therefore also a small possibility that the exchange of “we’re still gonna do this, right?” happened the second time Eric and Dylan were set to enter the library. And, in that case, it would be Dylan asking Eric.. are you still with me, we’re still gonna do this (kill ourselves together) right..

for me it was eric that said it and it was when they first enter the library .
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:10 am

I think about the statement and I also think about the "woohoo" we hear on the 911 tape when they first come into the library.

My first gut instinct upon hearing the "are you still with me" quote was that it was Dylan asking Eric. I just feel it was him....

But then I think about the "woohoo" yell. Who yelled this? It sounds a bit like Eric although we know they were both hooting around....if it was Eric it shows that Eric was still very high on adrenaline and willing to keep going so maybe it was Eric who asked Dylan if he was still with him....

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:29 am

The woohoo sounds like Dylan. It's quite easy to tell. IDK how to explain it but that's Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:31 am

I think like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said if that question was asked the first time then it may be Eric, if it's the second time it's def Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:36 pm

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dylan had more to lose than eric , i think .

I have a hard time figuring Dylan out. Eric is straight forward, but Dylan is an enigma. I remember Judy Brown stating that Dylan always wanted to "be there for Eric." Sue Klebold wrote in her book that Dylan approached her one night in his Junior year and said, "Eric is crazy." I had demanding friends like Eric, but that doesn't mean Dylan is less of a mystery.
I think Dylan was more likeable and friendly, whereas Eric was much more bitter. I will never forget what Devon Adams said about Eric. She said that Eric had a superiority complex and was a "pain in the bum" much of the time, although she felt closer to Dylan because of Zack's close relationship to him. If some one slighted Eric, or annoyed him, he would hold a grudge and quietly plot his revenge. There is no evidence of Dylan holding grudges.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:32 am

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dylan had more to lose than eric , i think .

I have a hard time figuring Dylan out. Eric is straight forward, but Dylan is an enigma. I remember Judy Brown stating that Dylan always wanted to "be there for Eric." Sue Klebold wrote in her book that Dylan approached her one night in his Junior year and said, "Eric is crazy." I had demanding friends like Eric, but that doesn't mean Dylan is less of a mystery.
I think Dylan was more likeable and friendly, whereas Eric was much more bitter. I will never forget what Devon Adams said about Eric. She said that Eric had a superiority complex and was a "pain in the bum" much of the time, although she felt closer to Dylan because of Zack's close relationship to him. If some one slighted Eric, or annoyed him, he would hold a grudge and quietly plot his revenge. There is no evidence of Dylan holding grudges.

I don't know about Dylan holding grudges, but I think he was the better manipulator thus making more people talk favorably about him after his death. Everyone was surprised Dylan did this. That doesn't mean he was any less responsible. He was just as evil and just as dark as Eric. I think Eric was just more open and honest about his anger than Dylan. Dylan seemed to direct the hate he felt inside toward himself while Eric let it out. I almost feel like Eric wanted friends too much but didn't like the ones he had.

And I guess I feel like Devon has a huge bias toward Dylan and doesn't want to see him for what he was. She did not know Eric as well but she knew Dylan. But she only knew one side of him. No one knew the side he hid
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PostSubject: Re: Eric was more of a " mess " than dylan ?   Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:03 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

I don't know about Dylan holding grudges, but I think he was the better manipulator thus making more people talk favorably about him after his death. Everyone was surprised Dylan did this. That doesn't mean he was any less responsible. He was just as evil and just as dark as Eric. I think Eric was just more open and honest about his anger than Dylan. Dylan seemed to direct the hate he felt inside toward himself while Eric let it out. I almost feel like Eric wanted friends too much but didn't like the ones he had.

And I guess I feel like Devon has a huge bias toward Dylan and doesn't want to see him for what he was. She did not know Eric as well but she knew Dylan. But she only knew one side of him. No one knew the side he hid

Amen amen amen!

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