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 Dylan college

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elia



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PostSubject: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 6:26 am

What do you think about dylan's trip to the college he wanted to attend? why did he want to go to college knowing that after a month he was going to be dead??
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 6:41 am

To keep up appearances. It was a trip that he had to make, he had to pick a dorm room at some stage and it would seem suspicious if he had of pulled out. I don't think it had anything to do with a secret desire to pull of out the plan and actually attend college there.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 1:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
To keep up appearances. It was a trip that he had to make, he had to pick a dorm room at some stage and it would seem suspicious if he had of pulled out. I don't think it had anything to do with a secret desire to pull of out the plan and actually attend college there.

I agree, it was easier for Dylan to just go on the trip, it would have aroused his parents suspicions if he had suddenly claimed he didn't want to go and would have drawn unnecessary attention to himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 2:13 pm

I find very interesting, how Dylans parents describe this trip. The father said (if I remember correctly) that Dylan was unusual outgoing, talkative and happy during the visit. Dylan even made comments about girls, who were pretty to his dad, which was the first time, Dylans father noticed anything like that in Dylan.

For my knowledge, when a suicidal person takes the decision to finally commit suicide, it often happens that the same person seems very happy and calm, after that point, because it has finally a hope.
I think, it was the same case in Dylans behavior, but to a much bigger extent.
I wonder, if Eric act the same way, the last weeks before the massacre?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 3:52 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
I find very interesting, how Dylans parents describe this trip. The father said (if I remember correctly) that Dylan was unusual outgoing, talkative and happy during the visit. Dylan even made comments about girls, who were pretty to his dad, which was the first time, Dylans father noticed anything like that in Dylan.

For my knowledge, when a suicidal person takes the decision to finally commit suicide, it often happens that the same person seems very happy and calm, after that point, because it has finally a hope.
I think, it was the same case in Dylans behavior, but to a much bigger extent.
I wonder, if Eric act the same way, the last weeks before the massacre?

During the last couple of weeks before the massacre Eric made comments in the basement tapes such as it's a really weird feeling knowing your going to be dead in 2.5 weeks and it's been really hard on me this week knowing it's my last week on Earth. I believe he also wrote in his planner( Death? Afraid). I believe he was suicidal just like Dylan but it seemed the closer he was getting to commit suicide was difficult.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 4:14 pm

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During the last couple of weeks before the massacre Eric made comments in the basement tapes such as it's a really weird feeling knowing your going to be dead in 2.5 weeks and it's been really hard on me this week knowing it's my last week on Earth. I believe he also wrote in his planner( Death? Afraid). I believe he was suicidal just like Dylan but it seemed the closer he was getting to commit suicide was difficult.

Sorry but I'm always critical of what was supposedly said on those damn tapes (release them already!!) because we've no way of knowing how true it is.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun May 05, 2013 6:09 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


During the last couple of weeks before the massacre Eric made comments in the basement tapes such as it's a really weird feeling knowing your going to be dead in 2.5 weeks and it's been really hard on me this week knowing it's my last week on Earth. I believe he also wrote in his planner( Death? Afraid). I believe he was suicidal just like Dylan but it seemed the closer he was getting to commit suicide was difficult.

Sorry but I'm always critical of what was supposedly said on those damn tapes (release them already!!) because we've no way of knowing how true it is.

I know what you mean and i completely agree!!

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elia



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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon May 06, 2013 8:51 am

So I wonder how is it to know for sure that you're going to die...It has to be a really strange feeling..and above all I wonder what Eric and Dylan might have thought during their last days of life especially their last night....Do you think they slept soundly or they were so excited they couldn't sleep?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon May 06, 2013 7:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So I wonder how is it to know for sure that you're going to die...It has to be a really strange feeling..and above all I wonder what Eric and Dylan might have thought during their last days of life especially their last night....Do you think they slept soundly or they were so excited they couldn't sleep?

I think about this a lot -what went through their heads on those last days. Dylan's last journal entry is very careless, as if he's genuinely fed up with life and doesn't care either way. Eric actually seems less angry in his last journal entry. His writing is much neater too, in the last entry.

I can only take a guess, of course, but I don't think they slept well that last night. I can't imagine any human would.

I also wonder if there was an anti-climax to the event after planning it/looking forward to it for so long.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Tue May 07, 2013 3:14 pm

I am not sure if it was all acting. Maybe planning the whole thing was still surreal in his mind or maybe he didn't made up his mind yet. Reading his journal, he comes across as not really convinced he is going to do this. (Maybe going NBK with Eric is the way-gawd) or something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Tue May 07, 2013 6:16 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
For my knowledge, when a suicidal person takes the decision to finally commit suicide, it often happens that the same person seems very happy and calm, after that point, because it has finally a hope.
I think, it was the same case in Dylans behavior, but to a much bigger extent.
I think it's about this, too

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Wed May 08, 2013 6:37 pm

@Laeda wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
For my knowledge, when a suicidal person takes the decision to finally commit suicide, it often happens that the same person seems very happy and calm, after that point, because it has finally a hope.
I think, it was the same case in Dylans behavior, but to a much bigger extent.
I think it's about this, too

Agreed. He felt resolved in nearing the end of this existence and being closer to being "free' which, yeah, is common in suicidal people. I think even Brooks described Dylan as "serene" near the end. I also think Dylan was a people pleaser most of his life (sat on his feelings when he was hurt) and so he was dishing out what he thought people wanted to be happy. So, on spring break to Arizona, he was playing the happy, excited son for his parents. He was giving his Dad the idea that he was outwardly interested in girls, making a point of checking them out in a public way, letting his Dad think that he was on the wave length of possibly dating in college. Showing enthsusiam for picking out his dorm, hugging cactus in photos (I'd give any thing to see those, really!) He capitulated and agreed to be Robyn's date at Prom. He interacted with a lot of the kids in the limo. He was talking about a reunion with his CHIPS classmates. He was chatting up with his buddy Nate talking about how they would/should stay in touch. In a warped way, it was probably Dylan's way of justifying leaving the people he did like/love and care about and giving them a taste of what life could have been like with him if his future continued on. Instead, it just confused the hell out of everyone.

On the other hand, there must have been moment where his choice wasn't so clear cut for him: I recall reading something from Calence Emerson on his Facebook months back: Dylan was leaving a friends house (was not mentioned who) and the friend's mom asked him if he was excited that school was nearly over and that he'd be off to college. Dylan was said to have been lacing up his boots and seemed very despondant and depressed after she had asked him about his future.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:38 pm

Someone asked some time ago about Dylan's college applications and i promised i'd post them but I can't find the original question so this seemed the most appropriate place to post. All this information is from Jeff Kass, Columbine, A True Crime Story, Chapter 11 Section 6 unless otherwise stated (sorry no page numbers as this information was taken from the Kindle edition):

The University of Arizona received Dylans College application on January 15th 1999.

He was going to enroll to the College of Engineering and Mines to major in Computer Engineering in the fall. His 2.74 G.P.A ranked him 229/463 in the middle of his senior year, in June 1998 he took his SAT and scored 560 in verbal and 650 in math equaling 1210. (If anyone would like to explain this grading system to me that'd be great) Smile

Brad Butts Dylans guidance counselor included this recommendation written in December 1998:
"Dylan has great potential in the computer science and technology field. He is very bright and I believe is beginning to mature in his attitude towards school and his future. His grades show an inconsistent pattern of performance, but he has continued to take challenging courses. His current grades are: Video Production -A, Government -B, AP Calculus -C, Composition for College Bound -C, PE - D. Please feel free to call us if you have any questions."

Dylans University essay:
"Dear University of Arizona:
I would like to take this time to introduce myself to you. I have been at Columbine High School (Littleton,CO) for three and one-half years (originating from Ken Caryl Middle School). During this time, I have become acquainted with most of the staff, as well as the student body. I have participated in many extra-curricular activities, and have worked in and out of my classes towards preparing myself for my future. During my freshman year, I performed above average, recieving grades that reflected my perseverance. However, during my sophomore and junior years, I had trouble keeping a high G.P.A. This was partially a result of my hanging out with the wrong crown; not caring about my future. It took me a long time to finally realize that the decisions I was making would effect me for the rest of my life. Also, I have difficulty communicating with people, and my time management was not optimal. These are things that i am diligently working to rectify, so my grades and my people skills reflect the positive change. Through the four years, my classes have shown and will show that i have chosen relatively difficult classes, in hope [sic] to better myself and my education. For example, I had gone through French 402 by the end of my junior year, and i am also in my forth year of math. That current class is AP Calculus. By taking difficult classes, my grades might not have been as high as possible, but i feel that i benefited more by this, than receiving perfect grades in courses less challenging. Now, during my senior year, i am endevouring to work harder than before, and to maintain good time-management skills, so i can achieve a better G.P.A than in the past.
At Columbine High School, as well as during my own time, I have been a computer enthusiast. My computer experience started in Junior High, mostly by my tinkering on my home machine. Since then, i have taken three computer-related classes at Columbine. These include a structured Q-Basic class, which taught beginning knowledge of the programming language Q-Basic, Computers A-Z, which taught the hardware and its maintenance, and also an HTML/Web Page design class, which organized students to fabricate and maintain the Columbine Web Page. I also did various technical tasks for staff around the school during that time. During some of my personal time, i taught myself beginning Visual Basic and HTML. A friend and i also got interested in server maintenance and network administration, which led us to help maintain the Columbine network and server. As a result of these classes, as well as personal time spent, I have grown a passion for using, operating, and learning about computer systems. I feel that choosing Computer Science and Engineering as a major will help further my education, and my future.
Some of the major extra-curricular activities that i participated in during my time at Columbine High School were the school plays and musicals. However, i did not act in these, but ran the sound system for the performances. Since my sophmore year i started participating in these plays, i have run sound for four plays, and have also accepted requests to run sound for various private groups and talent shows in our school. I have also participated in stage design, and helped co-direct one play. During the spring of this year, i and a few other students with similar theatrical interests will attempt to produce an entirely student-run production, done outside of the school. I have a strong interest in sound engineering and broadcasting, and might persue that as an alternative to a computer-related major.
I have chosen to apply at the University of Arizona for various reasons. The first, being that U. of A. is a highly competitive school, with a highly renounced computer program. This is what I believe will help me further my education and my career. I also believe i would enjoy the hot, dry climate, a drastic change from the weather here. I feel that a large student body will add to diversify my learning experience of college.
I truely believe that i would be a positive member of and an active leader in the U. of A.  community, and i hope that you feel the same way. Thank you for the consideration of this application, and this letter. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,

Dylan Bennet Klebold"


Dylan applied to the University of Colorado at Boulder also. Allegedly his essay was the same with what Kass describes as "weak" and "odd" reasons for wishing to attend. But I guess that's open to interpretation. Dylan wrote:

"I have chosen to apply at the University of Colorado at Boulder for various reasons. The first being that i live in a suburb of Denver and the commute to my home is feasible. I was very impressed when i went to visit the campus. The Engineering/Science program not only sounded like what i was looking for to further my career in computers, but also has been ranked very high among colleges in the country. I was also impressed with the tour guides. They were informative, and told me a great amount about the college's history, its specialties, and the life style within. The accommodations for students at C.U. were inviting, as were the wide variety of activities and courses."

It's very interesting as Kass notes that these applications were written just prior to his violent school essay in February 1999.
It was on Thursday 25th March that Dylan went on the 4 day trip to visit the University of Arizona with his parents after he had been accepted. Robyn Anderson said she believed Dylan "had applied there because he liked the desert." pg(10624) Brooks Brown mentions the conversation between his mother and Mrs Klebold in NEA pg(120) where they talk about Dylan selecting his room and commenting on the girls to his father.

It's interesting to note the date of the College visit as 25th March, as some of the Basement Tapes were allegedly filmed in close proximity to this date. 15th March (this is the one with the leaked audio) Dylan wanting to kill "250 of you" and the comment about Brandon Larson and his head on a knife. 18th March, where they discuss bombs and only having two weeks left. Late March / Early April where Dylan mentions about his parents going to Passover. Likewise in January, 2 months before his College trip and 5 days after the University of Arizona received his application, Dylan makes the "Maybe going NBK with Eric" comment pg(26415)

An additional link some people may be interested in: University of Arizona current Electrical and Computer Engineering page: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:28 pm

Thankyou so much for posting these. It's so sad to read this and think of what their lives could have been.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thankyou so much for posting these. It's so sad to read this and think of what their lives could have been.

That's OK, it's interesting when you begin to cross reference what else was going on in the boys lives at the same points in time. The Dylan who wrote about plans for his future is completely different to the Dylan that was talking about wanting to die and commit mass murder.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:33 pm

@queenfarooq wrote:
@CatherineM813 wrote:
Thankyou so much for posting these. It's so sad to read this and think of what their lives could have been.

That's OK, it's interesting when you begin to cross reference what else was going on in the boys lives at the same points in time. The Dylan who wrote about plans for his future is completely different to the Dylan that was talking about wanting to die and commit mass murder.

The dichotomy is interesting with Dylan.  I mean, you never really get the feeling with Eric that he was keeping up appearances and cultivating an alternative life - post high school graduation.  While Eric vaguely spoke the appropriate lingo of future plans with friends, Dylan by contrast, planned and propagated two futures for himself.  In my opinion, there was a piece of him that was actually planning for a future. Almost, like it was in his back pocket.  Especially, if you consider in his Jan '99 journal entry that he was still vacillating about what to do with his suffering, stagnate life - and that just "maybe NBK (gawd) with Eric" was the most efficient solution.  There is a part in 'Tips from A-L'  where it really struck me as quite illuminating: apparently, Dylan wrote one of his usual "I'm trying to sound sophisticated" form letters to a local theater company, Ascot, trying to persuade them to let his bunch of friends put on their own brand of edgy plays.  He even went to see the theater manager to talk to her about it as well and was persistent. It sounds to me like these were ideas that Brooks and Dylan shared together (via No Easy Answers) where the two got together at Perkins and talked about wanting to write their own screenplays, productions, etc.  I think Dylan was genuinely interested in movie production and doing sound for CHS theater and also Video Production class helped  him realize that he kinda, sorta liked doing that - something of interest that he may have felt accomplished at as opposed to just sitting at home playing Doom for hours on the computer.    Writing that letter for Ascot and going to see the manager, sounds like an incredible amount of energy and passion coming from Dylan. This was driven by him.  So, there was this piece of him that, parallel to NBK plans, still planned for a living future with interests and desires.  I don't think it was entirely an act on his part.  I think a component of him believed that while he was writing those application letters to colleges, or going to check out dorms with his family and friends, or trying to arrange theater plays with his peers, that was genuine.  It was also something to do, to past the time, while parallel to his public persona, NBK moved swiftly from the realm of dark, personal fantasy into the forefront.  I don't think he entirely believed NBK was even an actual, true future reality, until Eric said "go, go!" and suddenly, Dylan found himself tossing bombs out into the parking lot and taking pot shots with his double barrel. Then, that alternative future reality was solidified and locked in place forever.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:18 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
 I don't think he entirely believed NBK was even an actual, true future reality, until Eric said "go, go!" and suddenly, Dylan found himself tossing bombs out into the parking lot and taking pot shots with his double barrel. Then, that alternative future reality was solidified and locked in place forever.

I think this is a great way to explain it. I wonder if he ever truly considered backing out, or if he chose not to think about it and let fate decide.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:24 pm

In an article titled forgiving my good friend Dylan Klebold, Chad McLaughlin who was great friends with Dylan in the CHIPS program said that both Eric and Dylan were equally responsible but if anyone wanted to back out at the end it was Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:28 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
The dichotomy is interesting with Dylan.

It is extremely interesting, particularly in this instance.  

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
There is a part in 'Tips from A-G'  where it really struck me as quite illuminating: apparently, Dylan wrote one of his usual "I'm trying to sound sophisticated" form letters to a local theater company, Ascot, trying to persuade them to let his bunch of friends put on their own brand of edgy plays.  Apparently, he even went to see the theater manager to talk to her about it as well and was persistent.

He did you're right, Dylans letter is on pg(13017) also notes from Meg Beck the General Manager at Ascot Theater are on pg(13013 - 13016) they are interesting to read through.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:32 am

He was crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
He was crazy.
Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
He was crazy.
Shocked
;)
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:50 am

@Ivan wrote:
@Jenn wrote:
@Ivan wrote:
He was crazy.
Shocked
;)

Wow, just that simple, eh.  Then why are we all here?   Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:59 am

@Wideawake wrote:
InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
 I don't think he entirely believed NBK was even an actual, true future reality, until Eric said "go, go!" and suddenly, Dylan found himself tossing bombs out into the parking lot and taking pot shots with his double barrel. Then, that alternative future reality was solidified and locked in place forever.

I think this is a great way to explain it. I wonder if he ever truly considered backing out, or if he chose not to think about it and let fate decide.

You make a good point with "Fate" because Dylan seemed to really reference leaving things up to fate near the end of his journal. I think his mindset in general regarding his future and his love life was to stop struggling and let go, give it all over to fate: What will be was meant to be. And, hey, it's not like anyone else intervened to stop fate hurdling towards NBK- neither friends that kinda/sorta knew what was going on with the two nor authorities - most especially not authorities.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:44 am

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
@Ivan wrote:
@Jenn wrote:
@Ivan wrote:
He was crazy.
Shocked
;)

Wow, just that simple, eh.  Then why are we all here?   Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:12 am

@K.F.C. wrote:
InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
@Ivan wrote:
@Jenn wrote:
@Ivan wrote:
He was crazy.
Shocked
;)

Wow, just that simple, eh.  Then why are we all here?   Cool
I am just here for the chicken.Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:16 am

I'll keep you posted but a friend of mine is about to go public about his experiences with Columbine and his friendship with Dylan, so many questions about Dylan might be answered when he shares his experiences... I'll come back and make a new thread with links when there's something to share. I am not sure of the timeline. But he's absolutely wonderful, amazing, and there's no doubt what he has to share is going to be life changing because he's up to wonderful things in the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'll keep you posted but a friend of mine is about to go public about his experiences with Columbine and his friendship with Dylan, so many questions about Dylan might be answered when he shares his experiences... I'll come back and make a new thread with links when there's something to share. I am not sure of the timeline. But he's absolutely wonderful, amazing, and there's no doubt what he has to share is going to be life changing because he's up to wonderful things in the world.
What a teaser that is. Do you know why he would come out with new information after all this time? Is it related to Sue writing and talking about Dylan publicly?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan college   Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:24 pm

Guest wrote:
On the other hand, there must have been moment where his choice wasn't so clear cut for him: I recall reading something from Calence Emerson on his Facebook months back: Dylan was leaving a friends house (was not mentioned who) and the friend's mom asked him if he was excited that school was nearly over and that he'd be off to college.  Dylan was said to have been lacing up his boots and seemed very despondent and depressed after she had asked him about his future.

I really think his writing assignment was DK trying to either get caught or trying to see if he could at least imagine himself going through with 4/20.
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