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 Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966

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PostSubject: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:28 pm

I had heard his name from time to time and really didn't think much about it. After becoming very sick, I was bored so I started researching him. He committed the deadliest school shooting prior to Virginia Tech 31 years later.

I noticed a lot of themes we seem to see in school shooters: anger, perhaps mental illness, alluding to his plans before the actual attack. He even kept a journal and wrote in it frequently. He had actually been seen by a University psychiatrist and spoke of wanting to use the 307 foot clock tower to shoot people. He had even mentioned it to several friends. It seems failure in his life was imminent and on the horizon.

What this man perpetrated was absolutely heinous. He murdered his mother around midnight by first choking her and then stabbing her in the heart. He proceeded to write a note and placed it in her body explaining his "reasons".

He then went home and stabbed his sleeping wife numerous times in the chest and left another note on her body.

He murdered children, secretaries, students, a newspaper boy and professors. With the exception of the children, their mother and the observation deck secretary, all others were shot from his 307 foot perch.

His most accurate and deadly gun, a 6mm Remington equipped with a 4 power scope was his most lethal weapon and the one he used from atop the tower. The first person he chose to shoot that awful day was an 18 year old who was 8 months pregnant. She was near the clock tower, so he certainly had an excellent visual on her. Instead of murdering her, he chose his target and coldly shot her in the abdomen, the concussion of the bullet in the uterus fracturing the baby's skull and killing him immediately.

It took 97-99 minutes to finally kill him.

To compare him with later school shooters is scary. He had packed enough supplies to last approximately 2 days and had it not been for the fearless officers confronting that situation, it would have been much, much worse.

It is definitely worth researching what is considered America's first school shooting.

At autopsy, a "pecan sized tumor" was found pressing against the thalamus, hypothalamus, and amygdala. Such pressure on certain portions of the brain can attributed to aggressiveness and violence, although this is still in debate to this day, with some neuroscientists agreeing while others disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:20 am

i love everything about this case. i'm fascinated by charles.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:20 am

@shades Me too! May I ask what fascinates you about him? Do you think the brain tumor had anything to do with it?

I have been researching this case and I am in awe at the devastation this man caused. It's actually quite weird that instead of having memorials, candlelight vigils and acknowledging the anniversary, the University all but dismissed it for almost 50 years!

I get it. It was a different time, but I remember Claire (the 8 month pregnant student) saying when she came back to school in January, she saw people who had helped her and when she thanked them, they didn't want to talk about it.

I find it a unique case study in a way. We are 50 years past, and when you read some of the survivors and witnesses accounts, you can sometimes sense PTSD.

The police officer who actually killed him with his 12 gauge shotgun, Houston McCoy, got screwed by Ramiro Martinez who took credit for killing Whitman. He had a .38 caliber service revolver and indeed emptied it at Whitman, but no wounds were found at autopsy by Ramirez's gun. Mr. McCoy shot him twice and has always stated that Ramirez grabbed his shotgun after Whitman was already dead and ran up to him and shot him point blank. Afterwards, Ramirez began yelling, "I got him, I got him!"

When you look at the vastly different years these 2 men lived, it is heartbreaking. Ramirez, taking all the credit, became a Texas Ranger and then a magistrate or something. Poor Mr. McCoy, likely suffering from PTSD, quit police work and ambled through life, working menial jobs and became an alcoholic. When asked why he didn't correct Ramirez, he said he had too much pride.

Anyways, I know I write novels, so I'll stop, but I'm glad someone else is interested in this case too!
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:23 pm

I love everything about this and it's too long for a recap but I love everything down to how they took Charles out, the people who were heroes that day, I feel sorry for the family that got killed going up the tower, but surprisingly I'm fascinated by Charles' story. I have watched two different documentaries re-enacting the case and you just reminded me to go look for books about him/this. I will be a very happy girl adding Charles Whitman to my collection.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:25 pm

Oh and Charles's aim was insaneeeee. Morbid to say but reports kept talking about how he was able to take intended targets out from all the way at the top of the tower.

Tomb wrote:
His most accurate and deadly gun, a 6mm Remington equipped with a 4 power scope was his most lethal weapon and the one he used from atop the tower. The first person he chose to shoot that awful day was an 18 year old who was 8 months pregnant. She was near the clock tower, so he certainly had an excellent visual on her. Instead of murdering her, he chose his target and coldly shot her in the abdomen, the concussion of the bullet in the uterus fracturing the baby's skull and killing him immediately.

Yup this was the known one.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:08 pm

His Marine record indicated he was actually better at shooting moving targets. Some of the murders were insane, to the point that if it were a movie, no one would believe it. Austin patrolman Billy Speed was one of the first police officers to arrive at the University; he and a colleague took refuge behind a columned stone wall. Whitman shot through the six-inch spacing between the columns of the wall and killed Speed. I mean, he shot through a 6 inch opening that far away and killed an officer. That's insane. I mean, he was killing people from over 500 yards away, 307 feet in the air.

There are some good articles online, but I only know of one book. A Sniper in the Tower The Charles Whitman Murders by Gary M. Lavergne. I highly recommend it, he clearly researched Whitman in depth and got interviews with a lot of people and had access to probably most, if not all, documents pertaining to the event.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:19 pm



This is actually where Officer Billy Speed was when he was shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:40 pm

Crazy interesting. Charles must have had a lot of training. Was on official cause ever settled?
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:04 pm

Well, in his suicide note, he stated he was aware something was wrong with him mentally and that he'd like for the officials to do an autopsy, whereupon it was discovered he had a brain tumor. He asked that any money left from his life insurance after paying his bills be donated to mental health research to hopefully prevent future mass shootings.

The brain tumor has been debated for 50 years, with some saying it had no effect on his actions and others saying it did effect his actions. He was also a heavy user of amphetamines, although the "autopsy" revealed he had no drugs in his system. The problem with the autopsy was that he had been embalmed prior to being autopsied. The drug he was using would only have been detectable in urine, and so that's a question for which we'll never know the answer.

I tend to believe the tumor effected him as it was located in a part of the brain responsible for emotion and aggression. I also think he viewed himself as a failure. At first, he did well in the Marines, but eventually he screwed that up, being demoted in rank, court martialed and 30 days in the brig.

He was doing poorly in college and was pretty much being supported by his wife and her numerous jobs. I think there was some mental illness at play as well.

It's a complicated, intricate case that is truly fascinating.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:44 pm

YAAAAAASSSSSSSSS.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:55 am

Thank you for bringing this case back to my memory. I am definitely adding Whitman to my upcoming book hunt!

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:50 am

Absolutely! I enjoy researching and discussing these events. I'll add this about the book, I found a few for sale on amazon and eBay and they were not cheap when I got mine. But it's definitely worth the money for his amazing research and interviews.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:11 am

I also want to add that another reason I feel he committed this massacre was his intense hatred for his father. His father, also named Charles Whitman, was admittedly very abusive to all 3 of his sons and his wife. After Whitman's death, reporters tracked the father down and he was quoted as saying things such as "Sure, I hit my kids, but I think I should have hit them more" and this lovely gem "Yes, I hit my wife, but no more than what any other man does." He would only grant an interview if he was paid and encouraged the rest of his family to do the same.

Whitman's mother finally left her husband in March 1966 and moved to Austin to be near Charles and his wife. It seems this proved very stressful and was the beginning of the end, although Charles by all accounts loved and adored his mother. His father would call Charles constantly, insisting that Charles convince his mother to come back home.

His wife, Kathy, was a high school biology teacher. She had just completed her very first year teaching when she was murdered. She also had to work other odd and end jobs to keep the household running. I actually came across her memorial on findagrave.com, and it was heart warming to read people's memories of her as an awesome, fun teacher. Her family has given 1 interview in the 50 years since this tragedy and it gives you such a good idea of what a sweet girl she was.

It's hard to imagine the murders of his mother and wife. He first choked his mother, bashed her head in (or shot her, no one really investigated), then stabbed her in the heart. He put her in her bed and sat and wrote a note he placed on her body, basically saying she had suffered her entire life and he had relieved her of that suffering.

He goes home and sneaks up on his sleeping wife and stabs her numerous times in the heart. Just like with his mother, he writes a note saying he does not know why he killed her, but he didn't want her to live with the embarrassment of what he was planning to do the following day.

I mean, if you can murder two of the most loved people in your life in that manner, and hang around in the same area, writing notes and moving their bodies, you certainly would think nothing of picking off people atop a tower. He had enough supplies to accommodate his rampage for a couple days.

It seems the Whitman family was cursed. Charles, of course, was killed on the tower, one brother was killed outside a nightclub a few years later and the final brother died of AIDS in the 80's. The father remarried, and of course, was abusive to the women. The irony is he lived a very long life, dying of Alzheimer's in 2001. I can't imagine waking up every day to the life that man had, but I have no pity at all for him. He was truly awful.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:28 am

I find it interesting too that one of the victims David Gunby died in 2001 of his injuries. 50 years later, Whitman killed someone. It is something out of a fiction novel

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:38 am

Yes, it evidently caused quite the controversy when they ruled his death a homicide. I can see both sides of the argument, but I would not disagree with ruling his death a homicide. That poor man suffered for decades, taking dialysis 3 hours a day after working 8 hours a day.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:49 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I had this picture in my facebook for awhile.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:51 am

Tomb wrote:
Yes, it evidently caused quite the controversy when they ruled his death a homicide. I can see both sides of the argument, but I would not disagree with ruling his death a homicide. That poor man suffered for decades, taking dialysis 3 hours a day after working 8 hours a day.

I agree that his death was homicide. It wasn't Whitman's fault the man only had one kidney of course but he did shoot him in the kidney and the man died of kidney related issues.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:52 am

And also I do believe that the tumor caused him to be violent. I do think his bg with his dad worked in that way too, but he mentioned abusing his wife as well. I think it did make him a violent individual. I do think it caused him to be emotionally unbalanced and mentally unbalanced.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:06 am

But what's unique about this was that he knew he had issues, and he wrote about asking to be checked out after he carefully planned and executed his murder-massacre. He killed his mother and wrote why he did it in a heartfelt way, he packed like a week's worth of food and supplies with him to the tower - I mean he had everything planned perfectly and he managed to hide it well - just like Eric and Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:13 am

Yes, he admitted to being violent with her 3 times. One of her students had written a lovely account of being in her class and being a teacher's helper. He adored her and spoke of how sweet and kind she was. He said he remembered her coming to work with bruises on her face and neck which she tried to mask with makeup. Even though Whitman detested his father for his abuse of the children and his mother, it's ironic he behaved in the same manner. Towards the end, it seems he was treating her better, at least not being physically abusive.

I read recently that they had lost his brain along with a shocking number of others. At my job, I don't even know how that could happen. Specimens are highly secured and accounted for. If something went missing, it would be noticed quickly. If something is to be destroyed, there is a ton of paperwork.

I found it very interesting that his autopsy report stated the bones of the skull were unusually thin. That's not something you see often.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:18 am

@shades wrote:
But what's unique about this was that he knew he had issues, and he wrote about asking to be checked out after he carefully planned and executed his murder-massacre. He killed his mother and wrote why he did it in a heartfelt way, he packed like a week's worth of food and supplies with him to the tower - I mean he had everything planned perfectly and he managed to hide it well - just like Eric and Dylan.

It is quite uncanny that he knew something was wrong. He spoke of the tremendous headaches, although the doctors at that time stated the tumor would not have caused the headaches. They blamed his amphetamine use.

It was sad to read that he wanted whatever money was left over from his life insurance to be donated anonymously to mental health research to try to prevent this from happening again. I wonder whatever happened to that money.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:29 am

Tomb wrote:
he wanted whatever money was left over from his life insurance to be donated anonymously to mental health research to try to prevent this from happening again.
So this is new to me. Wow wow wow, he did? That is so sad.

It sounds like he let his "headaches", his "anger", his frustration over a part of his life tumbling down, take over him. He let what he knew was bad to commit happen because the pain was stronger.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:09 am

@shades wrote:
Tomb wrote:
he wanted whatever money was left over from his life insurance to be donated anonymously to mental health research to try to prevent this from happening again.
So this is new to me. Wow wow wow, he did? That is so sad.

It sounds like he let his "headaches", his "anger", his frustration over a part of his life tumbling down, take over him. He let what he knew was bad to commit happen because the pain was stronger.

So, I tried to find a clear version of the letter, but they are all difficult to read. This is from Wikipedia:

At approximately 4:00 pm on July 31, 1966, Charles and Kathy Whitman visited their close friends John and Fran Morgan. They left the Morgans' apartment at 5:50 pm so Kathy could get to her 6:00–10:00 pm shift.[42]

At 6:45 pm, Whitman began typing his suicide note, a portion of which read:

I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts.[43]

In his note, he went on to request an autopsy be performed on his remains after he was dead to determine if there had been a discernible biological contributory cause for his actions and for his continuing and increasingly intense headaches. He also wrote that he had decided to kill both his mother and wife. Expressing uncertainty about his reasons, he nonetheless stated he wanted to relieve his wife and mother of the suffering of this world and to save them the embarrassment of his actions. He did not mention planning the attack at the university.[44]

Just after midnight on August 1, Whitman drove to his mother's apartment at 1212 Guadalupe Street. After killing his mother, he placed her body on her bed and covered it with sheets.[45] Just how he murdered his mother is disputed, but officials believed he rendered her unconscious before stabbing her in the heart.[45]

He left a handwritten note beside her body, which read in part:

To Whom It May Concern: I have just taken my mother's life. I am very upset over having done it. However, I feel that if there is a heaven she is definitely there now [...] I am truly sorry [...] Let there be no doubt in your mind that I loved this woman with all my heart.[46]
Whitman then returned to his home at 906 Jewell Street, where he killed his wife by stabbing her three times in the heart as she slept. He covered her body with sheets, then resumed the typewritten note he had begun the previous evening.[47] Using a ballpoint pen, he wrote at the side of the page:

Friends interrupted. 8-1-66 Mon. 3:00 A.M. BOTH DEAD.[45]
Whitman continued the note, finishing it by pen:

I imagine it appears that I brutally killed both of my loved ones. I was only trying to do a quick thorough job [...] If my life insurance policy is valid please pay off my debts [...] donate the rest anonymously to a mental health foundation. Maybe research can prevent further tragedies of this type [...] Give our dog to my in-laws. Tell them Kathy loved "Schocie" very much [...] If you can find in yourselves to grant my last wish, cremate me after the autopsy.[43]
He also left instructions in the rented house requesting that two rolls of camera film be developed and wrote personal notes to each of his brothers.[45]

Whitman last wrote on an envelope labeled, "Thoughts For the Day", in which he stored a collection of written admonitions. He added on the outside of the envelope:

8-1-66. I never could quite make it. These thoughts are too much for me.[45]
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:14 am

I mean, he even went to see a doctor about his issues and then saw a psychiatrist in March 1966. He told the shrink he wanted to go to the top of the tower and shoot people. He did at least attempt to get help. After the massacre the psychiatrist stated indeed Whitman had said that, but so had a whole lot of other kids. He said it was not an unusual thing for someone to tell him they wanted to commit such an act.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:01 pm

Tomb wrote:
I mean, he even went to see a doctor about his issues and then saw a psychiatrist in March 1966. He told the shrink he wanted to go to the top of the tower and shoot people. He did at least attempt to get help. After the massacre the psychiatrist stated indeed Whitman had said that, but so had a whole lot of other kids. He said it was not an unusual thing for someone to tell him they wanted to commit such an act.

Sounds like what Eric did doesn't it?

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:10 pm

@shades wrote:
Tomb wrote:
I mean, he even went to see a doctor about his issues and then saw a psychiatrist in March 1966. He told the shrink he wanted to go to the top of the tower and shoot people. He did at least attempt to get help. After the massacre the psychiatrist stated indeed Whitman had said that, but so had a whole lot of other kids. He said it was not an unusual thing for someone to tell him they wanted to commit such an act.

Sounds like what Eric did doesn't it?

Yes, it does. Although Eric did check a lot of the boxes that would have raised massive red flags, we will probably never know what he told the psychologist or psychiatrist. They fought extremely hard to have those records sealed. Do you think he hinted to the doctor about his plans? I could see him maybe hinting at his plans, because I think Eric enjoyed revealing tidbits here and there, but never revealing enough for the doctor to realize his plans. Those records would be amazing to read.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:49 am

IMO he had en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_control_disorder
I think it was this impulse disorder, where people can't resist doing stuff, usually bad things.
He saw the tower, saw that it would be an absolute perfect spot to do something like that.
At first just a joking thought that he had, he even said it in one of his classes and they laughed.
He couldn't resist the chance to do it, it was just too good of a spot to do this type of thing, and nobody else will do it so he had to do it.

I read about a woman who had this and stole her dad's car and drove full speed and killed herself in it.


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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:13 am

It's possible he suffered from impulse control disorder, but he also suffered from other mental illnesses as well on top of a brain tumor that was in an area of the brain that controls emotions and aggression. I can't stress the perfect storm, if you will, of all the comorbdities he suffered from. This case is so complex, with many twists and turns, that there's no way to wrap it up, put a simple label on it and file it away.

Even after 50 years, not a single person has cracked the reason he committed the massacre. There's excellent research, but no definitive "Why?" It's the reason we're all here on this board, seeking the "Whys" of the school shootings, from Whitman to Columbine to Virginia Tech and all the others.
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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:36 pm

As I said he was aware of the pain and the illness he had and let himself succumb to it especially when the violent thoughts started to come into the mix. The tumour was the aggressor, the last straw.

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PostSubject: Re: Charles Whitman and the University of Texas Austin 1966   Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:20 pm

You know why didn't his doctor detect a tumor when he would go for his annual checkups or did he ever go and see his doctor?
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