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 Bullying?

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bradt93
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:08 am

What I don't get is why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them when they got pelted with tampons and ketchup packs? Why weren't anyone in trouble for it? Those are the questions I have.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:55 pm

"Why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them?"

Because schools, particularly back then before Columbine itself triggered a lot of anti-bullying movements, typically turned a blind eye to that sort of thing. I personally think getting pounded or beaten up is a lot worse than getting some ketchup on you.

(copied from another post)

The deluded, immature teenage mind would file it as "the whole school wronged me." You end up hating the institution for the bad memories it provided you with. Hell, *I'm* guilty of that--and I'm pathetic for it. I admit it. I'm still angry about dumb things that happened to me when I was 13, just because the bad memories of embarrassing (in the small picture) but ultimately trivial (in the big picture) events never go away, and because I have some OCD/perfectionism about me too, like a lot of kids do.

So when I think about my own high school today, it's largely negative, even though I could easily look up stories of "bullying" that are three hundred times worse than what happened to me, which is to say a few smacks in the head from kids who were bigger than me, loudly being told to shut up when I said something iffy in class, the occasional small harrassment, and getting in trouble a lot for silly little things. I didn't suffer from eating disorders, or get my face seriously pounded in, or sexual humiliations, or lose a best friend or family member to suicide, or serious "trouble" (drugs, pregnancy, abortion, etc.) or (since I was in high school from 1996 to 2001) Facebook hounding, any of that...the problem seems to have gotten worse than it was then. The truth was a)high school mostly sucked because of the tedium and boredom and crappy classes and minefield of trying to avoid pissing teachers off, and b)even if it did suck, and even though I'll say "high school? it sucked," I do miss the few friends that I had. It's just that the few "bad incidents" have never left my mind and have subsequently been distorted out of all proportion just because they won't go away--and my ability to admit that is largely self-congratulatory rather than anything that helps me forget the bad memories.

Thank God for college--but that's a whole different topic, and now everyone bashes college as an institution even more than they bash high school!

What I'm trying to say: people, myself included, are self-pitying, for the most part. About anything they can pity themselves for.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:24 pm

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
"Why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them?"

Because schools, particularly back then before Columbine itself triggered a lot of anti-bullying movements, typically turned a blind eye to that sort of thing.  I personally think getting pounded or beaten up is a lot worse than getting some ketchup on you.  

(copied from another post)

The deluded, immature teenage mind would file it as "the whole school wronged me." You end up hating the institution for the bad memories it provided you with. Hell, *I'm* guilty of that--and I'm pathetic for it. I admit it. I'm still angry about dumb things that happened to me when I was 13, just because the bad memories of embarrassing (in the small picture) but ultimately trivial (in the big picture) events never go away, and because I have some OCD/perfectionism about me too, like a lot of kids do.

So when I think about my own high school today, it's largely negative, even though I could easily look up stories of "bullying" that are three hundred times worse than what happened to me, which is to say a few smacks in the head from kids who were bigger than me, loudly being told to shut up when I said something iffy in class, the occasional small harrassment, and getting in trouble a lot for silly little things. I didn't suffer from eating disorders, or get my face seriously pounded in, or sexual humiliations, or lose a best friend or family member to suicide, or serious "trouble" (drugs, pregnancy, abortion, etc.) or (since I was in high school from 1996 to 2001) Facebook hounding, any of that...the problem seems to have gotten worse than it was then. The truth was a)high school mostly sucked because of the tedium and boredom and crappy classes and minefield of trying to avoid pissing teachers off, and b)even if it did suck, and even though I'll say "high school? it sucked," I do miss the few friends that I had. It's just that the few "bad incidents" have never left my mind and have subsequently been distorted out of all proportion just because they won't go away--and my ability to admit that is largely self-congratulatory rather than anything that helps me forget the bad memories.

Thank God for college--but that's a whole different topic, and now everyone bashes college as an institution even more than they bash high school!

What I'm trying to say: people, myself included, are self-pitying, for the most part. About anything they can pity themselves for.
Yes, I went to a private high school and they didn't have a prom, that's the only thing I would've missed in a public high school.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:39 pm

I watched a bullying video on YT and a guy made fun of this girl and his sister found about it and told him she was crying in class and he said "we are just doing it for fun" then his sister made him realize what he did was wrong and at the end of it, he told his victim, I am so sorry. It was very nice and that's how bullying should be stopped.

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PostSubject: prom   Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:48 pm

"Yes, I went to a private high school and they didn't have a prom, that's the only thing I would've missed in a public high school."

I thought my junior prom was so lame and boring that I didn't even attend the second one.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:02 am

bradt93 wrote:
What I don't get is why wouldn't anyone do anything to help them when they got pelted with tampons and ketchup packs? Why weren't anyone in trouble for it? Those are the questions I have.

I don't believe that Eric and Dylan were ever pelted with ketchup packets and tampons.

First of all, no one in the 11k says anything about it and every student at the school was interviewed in great detail about any bullying incidents involving Eric and Dylan.

The only somewhat first-hand account of this incident is from Chad Laughlin, who told Alan Predergast that it happened junior year. Laughlin says he did not see it but "caught the tail end of it." According to Laughlin it was just Dylan, not Eric, and it was ketchup-covered tampons.

Brooks Brown, who did not witness the incident and reports it second-hand, later stated that this incident happened in January. This makes it sync with the reference to "January's incident" in the killers' plans. Also, Brown says it is both Dylan and Eric, adding Eric to Laughlin's account. Brown also says that "people surrounded them . . . calling them faggots" and that "teachers watched," even though not a single student recalls seeing this happen. So Brown, who did not witness it, has added three things to Laughlin's account--that it happened in January, that Eric was there too, and that large numbers of students and teachers surrounded the pair. Brown also subtracts one thing from Laughlin's account--Laughlin says it was tampons and Brown says it was just ketchup.

Later Susan Klebold told Andrew Solomon that she saw Dylan come home one day with ketchup on his shirt and he said he'd had "the worst day of his life." She told Solomon that after Dylan's death she was told "of an incident in which Dylan and Eric had apparently been shoved and squirted with ketchup by kids calling them fags." She repeated the story in her book, attributing it to "reporting" rather than a story she was told. I don't know who told Sue Klebold this story, but you can see that it has now expanded even more in the version she heard--the pair is now being shoved in addition to being squirted with ketchup.

So we go from Chad Laughlin's eyewitness account of Dylan with ketchup on his shirt to a story of Eric and Dylan surrounded by a gang of students who are shoving them, yelling homophobic slurs, and squirting them with ketchup, while teachers watch approvingly in front of the entire cafeteria.

More than likely what happened was Dylan had ketchup squirted on his shirt in a minor incident not witnessed by any of his friends and after the shooting it was blown up into both Eric and Dylan being mass assaulted by hundreds of homophobic jocks while teachers looked on. And the reason it was blown up is because people were looking for a motive.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:19 pm

[quote="bradt93"][quote="Jenn"]
lasttrain wrote:

For once you and I can agree on something. I do not believe that bullying was a main reason behind Columbine either. And I also believe that Dylan and Eric bullied way worse than they were bullied.

It's interesting to read and listen to what Brooks Brown wrote and said about bullying at Columbine on his tumblr page and various T.V. documentaries. I think he had said that Eric and Dylan never bullied anyone but were constantly bullied; and then in the same breath, he will talk about his own bullying. He wrote on tumblr about a jock throwing a baseball at him, hitting him in the face. I am not suggesting that Brooks made this up, but I believe he is trying very hard to fit the motive to the crime.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:50 am



Has anyone ever experienced bullying like this where the popular girls come up to you and start acting perfect in front of your face?
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:38 pm

If anyone had approached me like that in high school, I would beat the crap out of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:37 am

Also, why didn't Eric and Dylan just kill the bullies? Why go after innocent victims who did nothing to them?
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:53 am

bradt93 wrote:
Also, why didn't Eric and Dylan just kill the bullies? Why go after innocent victims who did nothing to them?

There are theories but some of them are that they wanted to kill everyone regardless of bully status. That the bullies were not the main target. That they didn't really even have a target. They wanted to kill as many as they could.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:31 am

Well, I know if I saw Evan Todd, I would punch that guy right in the face. I would say, you bullied kids huh, let's see how you like it when you are on the receiving end.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:16 am

I am not convinced that Evan Todd ever bullied anyone, despite what he says.

After people suffer a mass violence incident, they will often develop fantasies of retribution as a way of coping with the trauma.

Todd's admission to bullying is very vague and refer to "the whole school," not anything he specifically did. To me it sounds like a coping mechanism, a way of trying to recover a sense of initiative after Eric and Dylan had mentally damaged him.

Apparently neither Eric nor Dylan recognized him. Remember, Eric was the person who went through the entire yearbook and vandalized every picture. Eric would have remembered if Evan Todd had bullied him.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Well, he sounded like a total asshole and he just rubs me the wrong way.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:57 pm

I think @lasttrain is spot on with his assessment. Plus, in 1999 a guy's masculinity and sexuality was sensitive and a gay slur hurled at a straight guy could end in a brawl. Perhaps Mr. Todd was docile as a house cat, but he needed to appear macho and masculine. Perhaps not. Maybe he was a bully, but I would think Eric or Dylan would have mentioned his name if he were such a big bully.

I'm not saying it's right, but few of us have lived through such an ordeal. In coming to terms with it, especially in 1999 (and I have to stress, it really was a different time), maybe he needed to feel macho and tough in order to work through it, like he had at least been involved in some way in order to explain what happened to him.

I would like to think, like all of us who came of age around then, he is an entirely different person today. Although, with what happened to him, there is no norm, no statistic and really no right answer with who he may be today. I have read stories of other survivors who have struggled so heartbreakingly with addiction and other issues. No one deserved what happened to them and certainly the after effects are seemingly never ending. It's a tragedy.

Sorry to ramble.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:13 am

Well said and I don't think he should be criticized on this board.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:42 am

bradt93 wrote:
Well, I know if I saw Evan Todd, I would punch that guy right in the face. I would say, you bullied kids huh, let's see how you like it when you are on the receiving end.
Look, you need to knock it off with all this violent talk directed towards the victims of Columbine. And that is exactly what Evan Todd was - a victim. Not only was he injured when the 2 murderers were shooting their guns at him but Dylan also harassed him, called him names, was making fun of him and was threatening him with a gun knowing that the kid had no way to defend himself. You don't like him and he rubs you the wrong way, well OK, that's fine but saying you're gonna kick his ass and all this other violent talk is not OK and I'd appreciate it if you left those kind of comments off the board.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:41 am

I don't think Evan Todd was as much of a bully as claimed. Yes I think he probably was a jock and wearing a white hat, but if you just look at the guy he isn't really what Eric and Dylan claimed to hate. He was overweight and not gorgeous by any means. I think Dylan looked into his face and saw the fear and panic he wanted. I dont think either Eric or Dylan really did recognize him as someone that "tortured" them at all simply because I don't think he did.
He may have been around when bullying occurred and laughed about it or not tried to stop it but I doubt he did any real bullying himself.

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PostSubject: Is It Easier to Hate On Bullies, or Killers Created As A Result of Bullies?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:10 am

If hate is too strong of a word and you would rather choose to say blame, is it easier to divert it all towards bullies or killers?
On one end you have people who pick on others and bring others down incessantly and they end up getting away with it because it's near impossible to put a stop on one when there's a cluster of them, while the other you have people tired of it and decide to put matters in their own hands by 'seeking revenge', bringing their story out by killing. Being murderers.

When you end up as a murderer, what you do is wrong and it outweighs being a bully. Suddenly the bully is a victim if he almost had his life taken away by someone opposite of him with a gun. What are your thoughts and where do you stand?

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:19 am

I don't agree with murder. It doesn't matter to me who is killed. But murder in and of itself is wrong period to me.
I guess I value mercy as opposed to justice. This is religion based for me. I believe God is the judge not myself. He will pass the justice.


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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:30 am

That's a very clear answer girl.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:35 am

shades wrote:
That's a very clear answer girl.

It was hard for me to keep to my point because I feel a bit grey in this area at times. Sometimes when an "evil" person is killed I cheer a bit inside, but ultimately know that I feel that is wrong lol
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:23 am

I'll never be on the side of the bully. If the bully gets back from whom he constantly abused, I don't think I would be even a little bit sorry for him. That's his problem. But if it has affected other innocent people then it is a completely different situation.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:30 am

Lizpuff wrote:
I don't think Evan Todd was as much of a bully as claimed.  Yes I think he probably was a jock and wearing a white hat, but if you just look at the guy he isn't really what Eric and Dylan claimed to hate.  He was overweight and not gorgeous by any means.  I think Dylan looked into his face and saw the fear and panic he wanted.  I dont think either Eric or Dylan really did recognize him as someone that "tortured" them at all simply because I don't think he did.  
He may have been around when bullying occurred and laughed about it or not tried to stop it but I doubt he did any real bullying himself.
Evan doesn't even look like a man, seriously involved in sports.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:38 am

This discussion about Evan should actually be in the Evan Todd thread, which I voiced my opinions about Evan on. I agree with you guys that Evan shouldn't get so much of the hate at this point let alone at all. He's trying to make a difference now it seems.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:50 am

For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.

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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:40 pm

I'm not a bully, but what I am also not is a pushover who has ever abided by bullies' and their antics. I have been suspended in school and I have fought with these thugs, both for myself and those I care about. My experience, since kindergarten (I know, right?), has been that when I stand up to them, they back down. I've always been small and I'm a girl, but I've stood up to huuuuuge girls and guys alike. Sometimes, it's been a verbal confrontation, sometimes, physical. What I think, probably if you asked THEM, they would say that I bullied THEM! Pride, and all that, I suppose. Never, ever, ever have I intentionally went out of my way to be a bully or to hurt anyone. This was all in school. I am not advocating my actions, and remember, it was the 80's and 90's. I, along with a lot of other kids, were raised to "take care of business, if business is put on your doorstep", so to speak. Had I been a bully, certainly my parents would have found out in the relatively small place I grew up and I would have paid dearly. That was never my intent or interest, and in fact, was something I despised.

Now, I call people out on bad behavior. To this day, I can't stand back and allow someone perceived as "weak" to be harmed. But I do it with the beauty of language. I am, for the most part, around decent people now, but we are all grown, too.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:20 pm

shades wrote:
For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.
Why would they kill innocent people though? why not kill the bullies even though I don't agree with that either. They should've kicked the bullies asses, that way all the anger would be out of their system.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:20 pm

That's why I hate Evan Todd, because he was one of the bullies.
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PostSubject: Re: Bullying?   Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:26 pm

bradt93 wrote:
shades wrote:
For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.
Why would they kill innocent people though? why not kill the bullies even though I don't agree with that either. They should've kicked the bullies asses, that way all the anger would be out of their system.

To Eric everyone was a robot. NO ONE was innocent. Everyone deserved to die. To Dylan everyone was below him. He didn't care if they died.

Im not sure how else to phrase this. They wanted everyone to die.
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