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 Forgiving Sue Klebold

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Scarletmoon
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] They actually didn't mention Kinkel in the basement tapes. the only school shooting actually mentioned is the one in Kentucky, the one transcribing said they were referring to the shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky. Kinkel was actually not mentioned at all.

We can kind of see it in his posture in the CCTV footage how disappointed he is that their master plan, that they had been planning for over a year, failed. I have wondered the same regarding his thinking "damn, now everyone is going to assume we are just another pair of school shooters" which probably made him want to wrap that shit up, the broken nose probably didn't help either lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:20 pm

Timothy McVeigh, something similar to Eric. The unsuccessful career of the military, his anti-government views, his problems come from childhood (bullies).

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:17 pm

I'm going to disagree about McVeigh. His military career was wonderful, people in his platoon said he was a perfect soldier. They reported he had some quirks, but he had a very good military career, earning the Bronze Medal. The problem was he was getting ready to try out for the SEALS or another something like that. After the war, he was out of shape and dropped after 2 days. Disillusioned, he shortly took an honorable discharge.

- Bullies
- The treat of losing freedoms, mainly weapons.
- Waco and Ruby Ridge helped galvanize his anger

In my opinion he is in a league with Breivik in a way. Breivik is worse.

Now, agent John Douglas, who pioneered profiling bas said that these people have a traumatic experience in life, they are virgins or possibly sexually frustrated. He further states the obsession with guns was E&D's  was nothing but to feel powerful.

All of the above I add my findings:
- Males from late teenagers earl pay to mid20's
- Military experience and/or virgins
- Usually white men/boys
- Smart and/disordered.

Feel free to add.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I agree with you.People tend to read a lot into that exchange but I am not so sure they should.Nor am I sure that we can really know what Eric's parents feel and believe about their son, because they have said no little.
Obviously, we know they suffered greatly for a long time.They no doubt felt much anguish, grief, pain.
I cannot imagine that they still don't feel grief on some level to this day.
They surely still think of Eric ,if not every day, often and miss him in at least some respects.
I can't imagine a parent not wishing that things had been different for their son (and therefore different for others too) and that he was still here.
I do think though that its a mistake to determine what his parents believe about his mental state based on one meeting with a victims family.Maybe the Mausers said that's what they believed and Eric's parents didn't feel like they could argue.
Eric's parents no doubt accept that he was deeply troubled and needed help but I would have to hear it from them directly that they believe he was a psychopath.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:35 am

From Sue's Book:

June 30 Incident:

We waited for what felt like an eternity. Mrs. Harris wept. Then a deputy followed the boys through the substation office door. I practically threw up when I saw Dylan paraded past me in handcuffs. We waited hours to learn whether our children would be sent to a detention facility or allowed to return home. Finally, the officer who arrested them recommended they be considered for a Diversion program, an alternative to jail for first-time juvenile offenders accused of minor crimes. The program would provide supervised counseling and community service, and allow the boys to avoid criminal charges and placement in a detention facility. The boys were released into our care.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:20 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] They actually didn't mention Kinkel in the basement tapes. the only school shooting actually mentioned is the one in Kentucky, the one transcribing said they were referring to the shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky. Kinkel was actually not mentioned at all.

Oh my mistake. I thought they mentioned Oregon. I swear I heard it somewhere. Info gets jumbled with too many sources. Could have been from "No Easy Answers" when Brooks is gathering his thoughts after running away down the road from the first shots, or some documentary, or never at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] They actually didn't mention Kinkel in the basement tapes. the only school shooting actually mentioned is the one in Kentucky, the one transcribing said they were referring to the shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky. Kinkel was actually not mentioned at all.

Oh my mistake.  I thought they mentioned Oregon.  I swear I heard it somewhere.  Info gets jumbled with too many sources.  Could have been from "No Easy Answers" when Brooks is gathering his thoughts after running away down the road from the first shots, or some documentary, or never at all.
I made a post mentioning this once.
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At least one source does mention shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky but others mention Oregon and Kentucky. I'm not sure which source either transcript used for their information but you were not imagining it.

For what it's worth, in the Time magazine article on the basement tapes, they do refer to Oregon.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:31 pm


Good point sscc.

Peter Langman's version references Arkansas & Kentucky. He made his transcript from public sources: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made several videotapes of themselves talking about their upcoming attack. These have not been made public in full, but parts of them have been released. The following are transcripts of the publicly available passages. Bracketed text is in the original. Some minor misprints have been corrected.

Time and Rocky Mountain News (both magazines saw copies of the Basement Tapes) both quote Oregon and Kentucky.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:32 pm

It was a growing phenomenon.

10/1/1997 In Mississippi, sixteen year old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned his mother to death in the early morning before he headed to school killed two (one of which was a ex-girlfiend) and injured seven at his HS.  Apparently, Woodham wore a trench coat.

12/1/1997 In Kentucky, fourteen year old Michael Carneal killed three and injured five at his HS.  

3/24/1998 In Arkansas, Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden were only eleven and thirteen years old.  Together they killed five and injured ten.  The shooting was done at a middle school and the shooters appear very young.

5/20-21/1998 Oregon, Kip Kinkel.  It's possible that E&D would have at least noticed Kinkel more than the others.  He was a bigger TV news story.  Kinkel was fifteen at the time and raised the bar on school shootings.  The savage way in which he killed his parents, then drove to school and shoot twenty-five classmates the next day, killing four.  Apparently, he wore a trench coat and carried 1,127 rounds of ammunition.  If he weren't tackled by students, he probably would have shot more.

We don't know all the various conversations E&D had with their friends and amongst each other before.  I think it's likely that Kinkel's massacre forced them to think bigger.  Despite being three years older, a much bigger arsenal (including explosives) Eric went to his death knowing that he was just another school shooter with a similar death/injury count to Kinkel, whom he had probably looked down on.  With Dylan's help, Jeffco police's "handling" of the situation, long drawn out live national news coverage, and Columbine being the straw that broke the nation's back, his notoriety was elevated.  However, I doubt this was going through his mind when he shot himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:34 pm

Some notes from the Basement Tapes:



These videos, they predict, will be shown all around the world one day--once they have produced their masterpiece and everyone wants to know how, and why.

Dylan boasted that directors Tarantino and Spielberg would be vying for the duo's doomsday script. He said, “Directors will be fighting over this story.”

It appears their belief that Hollywood would begin a bidding war for their doomsday script and secure their fame is a key reason why they wanted to be seen as originals.

Eric seemed to fear that after school shootings in Oregon and Kentucky, he and Dylan would be seen as copycats. Above all, they want to be seen as originals.

We're doing this alone, they said, again and again.

And they made another point: They had begun planning their rampage long before the spate of school shootings across the country.

We're no copycats, they said. Those other kids? They're copying us.

"Do not think we're trying to copy any one," Eric said.

They had the idea long ago "before the first one ever happened."

Their plan was better, he said, "not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22's. Those kids were only trying to be accepted by others."


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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:26 pm


Just to point out, both Michael Carneal (Heath High School Shooting) & Kip Kinkel (Thurston High School Shooting) used .22 caliber guns.

However, camouflage was used by Andrew Golden/Mitchel Johnson (Westside Middle School Shooting).


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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Just to point out, both Michael Carneal (Heath High School Shooting) & Kip Kinkel (Thurston High School Shooting) used .22 caliber guns.

However, camouflage was used by Andrew Golden/Mitchel Johnson (Westside Middle School Shooting).



Read an article on these 2 tday..  the only school shooters that aren't either dead or serving life sentences.  Crazy Arkansas law put them back on streets within 10 years (they were 11 and 13 when they did their attack).  One I believe is back in prison, the other practically vanished.

Hafta think the rash of school shootings/attacks trending in '97-'99, OKC, NBK movie/pop culture, TCM fantasies about getting back at the school etc played into E&D's motivation as much as their own issues.

My senior year in HS the lead in our school play (like CHS, huge suburban upper middle class 99% Caucasian & jock ruled, but recognized drama program) walked into drama class with a trench coat on and shotgun hidden underneath.  Few days after the play opening he jumped up on stage in drama class and blew his head off in front of the students.  I've always wondered if that would have been a mass school shooting if it was a decade later.

Bizarre, but we were walked out of the building and excused for the day/it was 2 or 3 in the afternoon.  Classes resumed the next oppty and there was little discussion and no assembly or counselors offered etc..  I never mentioned it to my parents and I'm not sure they ever knew..  we certainly didn't discuss it.  Times do change.  I heard later he was upset/depressed over the clicks in the school (his HS had shut down the year before and they were meshed into ours).   I was oblivious to such tensions.. that's why I'm not surprised when I read about CHS stories of students and teachers that claim they never saw or were clueless to any bullying.

Crazy odds, but my father was still taking some grad classes when Whitman was on the Tower @ UTexas and my son was in the same district as TJ Lane in Ohio. Son is a FR @ CUBoulder.. when he text me in the fall that campus was shut down and one assailant was put down by SWAT I was thinking wtf?
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:03 am

Wow what are the odds [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], those are some crazy coincidences! As for the kid who shot himself at your highschool, I was just talking to someone today about how it was so different then, than it is now. Now when there is a school shooting or even a foiled school shooting, the kids have counselors available to them, the principal has an assembly to talk about what happened (or could have happened) and how to prevent it. It seems like before school shootings became part of American culture, the days after the shooting would happen, people acted like nothing really happened and got on with their lives no counselors or anything. Things have definitely changed.

Here's a couple interesting and somewhat worrisome fact about one of the Westside Middleschool shooters. Andrew Golden, now goes by the name Drew Douglas Grant and attempted to get a concealed carry licence when he got out of jail. Of course he was denied but wow the balls on that kid!
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:12 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] They actually didn't mention Kinkel in the basement tapes. the only school shooting actually mentioned is the one in Kentucky, the one transcribing said they were referring to the shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky. Kinkel was actually not mentioned at all.

Oh my mistake.  I thought they mentioned Oregon.  I swear I heard it somewhere.  Info gets jumbled with too many sources.  Could have been from "No Easy Answers" when Brooks is gathering his thoughts after running away down the road from the first shots, or some documentary, or never at all.
I made a post mentioning this once.
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At least one source does mention shootings in Arkansas and Kentucky but others mention Oregon and Kentucky. I'm not sure which source either transcript used for their information but you were not imagining it.

For what it's worth, in the Time magazine article on the basement tapes, they do refer to Oregon.
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Thanks for this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I also remember reading it somewhere but I could have sworn it was actually in Brooks' book when he was talking about the shootings that he had happened prior to Columbine. I never thought E&D themselves referred to it though. You learn something new everyday Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:12 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.


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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:54 am

I'm curious what you guys think about "how the times have changed."

On the one hand it can seem as redundant, fear mongering that gives shooters fame and recognition. On the other hand I think it's indisputable that the change police procedures were positive, and I sincerely feel that the absurd number of school assemblies about bullying I was forced to go to had a positive effect. Your thoughts?

When I entered into HS as a freshman in Fall 1999 (it was a very similar HS to Columbine) I was surprised to see we had our own "Trench Coat Mafia." Students even called them that because the name had become famous over the previous months. But the thing is that most of the students seemed to be taking a closer look at them and found they were nice, "normal," dorky kids. The kind of kids who played dungeons and dragons, liked anime, computer games, magic the gathering, etc. They weren't threatening, and bullying them would have been easy, but it was taboo. I would know. I was on the wrestling team and I could be a total asshole when I wanted. I both bullied others and was bullied myself. Bullying kids because of trench coats happened, but it was most certainly taboo. It could also get you in big trouble if someone told an admin. Of course there were occasional assholes who were legitimately looking for trouble and made fun of their trench coats or compared them to Columbine or something, but that was seen as over the line. The best comparison I can make is when an immature and insensitive HS student (and we know there are many) makes a racist joke or a joke about the Holocaust. You might get a few chuckles but you better not be serious about it or push it too far or you'll be socially ostracized.

I've suspected that this is one reason why Brooks Brown took the bullying narrative as far as he did. Besides being a good way to make money, he may have also seen it change schools for the better.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:15 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm curious what you guys think about "how the times have changed."

On the one hand it can seem as redundant, fear mongering that gives shooters fame and recognition.  On the other hand I think it's indisputable that the change police procedures were positive, and I sincerely feel that the absurd number of school assemblies about bullying I was forced to go to had a positive effect.  Your thoughts?

When I entered into HS as a freshman in Fall 1999 (it was a very similar HS to Columbine) I was surprised to see we had our own "Trench Coat Mafia."  Students even called them that because the name had become famous over the previous months.  But the thing is that most of the students seemed to be taking a closer look at them and found they were nice, "normal," dorky kids.  The kind of kids who played dungeons and dragons, liked anime, computer games, magic the gathering, etc.  They weren't threatening, and bullying them would have been easy, but it was taboo.  I would know.  I was on the wrestling team and I could be a total asshole when I wanted.  I both bullied others and was bullied myself.  Bullying kids because of trench coats happened, but it was most certainly taboo.  It could also get you in big trouble if someone told an admin.  Of course there were occasional assholes who were legitimately looking for trouble and made fun of their trench coats or compared them to Columbine or something, but that was seen as over the line.  The best comparison I can make is when an immature and insensitive HS student (and we know there are many) makes a racist joke or a joke about the Holocaust.  You might get a few chuckles but you better not be serious about it or push it too far or you'll be socially ostracized.  

I've suspected that this is one reason why Brooks Brown took the bullying narrative as far as he did.  Besides being a good way to make money, he may have also seen it change schools for the better.


Well according to a lot of people at Columbine that is what their TCM was. They were dorky kids who played Magic at lunch and basically stuck to themselves. The rumor about them being trouble or trying to cause trouble is mostly a myth.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:20 am

"Times have changed", as you put it, in that this is a frequent occurrence now. I thought I had a good post on this. It wasn't as widely covered as it was in 1999. Sure, someone may shoot up a place or even a school, but given the advent of 24/7 media coverage, it saturated the world in ways that had never occurred before that. In contrast to Charles Whitman, they were pathetic with their junky guns and ridiculous bombs. You have to dig to find info on Whitman, but he is at the apex of school shooters. His plan, his weapons, his shots (some truly amazing) are much more sophisticated than out hers before and since. Unfortunately, that incident was consciously buried in the interest of "moving on". It's important to note, he never mentioned "bullies", though.

Policies, rules and regulations have changed since Columbine. Throw off on the police all you want, but in 1999 that was the protocol: wait on the SWAT team. Jeffco sucked for sure, but their response was textbook in 1999. It's, of course, changed now. I speak for a lot of kids prior to Columbine in that the thought of a school shooting never occurred to us. A failure of imagination, perhaps. However, half the people who drove to my school had rifles or shotguns in their vehicles, because most people hunted or target practiced.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
 Well according to a lot of people at Columbine that is what their TCM was.  They were dorky kids who played Magic at lunch and basically stuck to themselves.  The rumor about them being trouble or trying to cause trouble is mostly a myth.

The thing that I wonder is if these types of kids experienced less bullying after Columbine. Maybe the timing was just right at my HS, but the general feeling was that it just wasn't funny.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:38 am

What do we have to forgive Sue Klebold for? She didn't do anything to us.

We should not place ourselves in the shoes of the victims.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:16 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
 Well according to a lot of people at Columbine that is what their TCM was.  They were dorky kids who played Magic at lunch and basically stuck to themselves.  The rumor about them being trouble or trying to cause trouble is mostly a myth.

The thing that I wonder is if these types of kids experienced less bullying after Columbine.  Maybe the timing was just right at my HS, but the general feeling was that it just wasn't funny.

From what I heard bullying stopped for a while after Columbine, but then started right back up. I feel like the TCM was mostly ignored or talked about behind their backs. Some were scared of them. I don't think they were as bullied as others make it out to be

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:15 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.


yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble. The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years. I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges? He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again.. I'm sure that'll go well.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:36 pm

@Fatheroftwo Ha! I love any O.J. reference! I'd like to hold a pillow over his face. And I'm being very generous and "humane" there. You're like a lot of us with a sensible world view (I just happen to have a dash of dark humor).

On a separate note, forgiveness is not mine to give. I sympathize with the parents, but my "forgiveness" is self serving.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.
yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble.  The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years.  I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges?  He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again..  I'm sure that'll go well.

According to Langman, Golden was a psychopath. He was the youngest school shooter at 11 years old and even before he came up with the idea for a mass shooting he had a history of sadistic and intimidating behavior.
Peter Langman wrote:
When  he  was  away  from  his  parents  and  teachers,  however,  Drew  showed  a different side of himself. Neighbors described him as “ a little demon,” “ mean-spirited,” and “ evil-acting.” He was hostile, aggressive, and threatening toward other children. He hit girls. He cursed and yelled at his peers. He threatened to shoot them with his BB gun. He rode his bicycle with a knife strapped to his leg, intimidating other children.

And then there was his behavior with cats. Cats  had  a  way  of  disappearing  when  Drew  was  around.  He  killed  a  cat  by starving it in a barrel. He pushed the heads of kittens through a chain-link fence. He shot bottle rockets and BBs at cats, tied one to a clothesline and shot BBs at it, and slit the throats of others.

Journalists  at  the  trial  noted  a  disturbing  lack  of  emotion  in  the  boy  while  in court.  One  observer  said  that  Drew  “ seemed  almost  insouciant  in  his  court appearance.” Another said “ Drew appeared to not be interested in the proceedings.” Still another remarked on the difference between Mitchell and Drew: “ One of the boy killers  sat  in  court  yesterday  looking  relaxed  and  even  smiled  at  his  parents.  Drew Golden didn’t seem to have a care in the world as he listened to the charges that he committed  multiple  murder.  In  contrast  his  13-year-old  friend  Mitchell  Johnson sobbed.”

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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It is Mitchell Johnson who is back in jail on drug possession and theft charges if I am not mistaken.
Andrew Golden got out of jail, changed his name and apparently lives a quiet, law abiding life and has since his release which has been several years ago now. Little if anything more is known about his life today. One can debate if they should still be in jail but I am glad that for whatever reason, at least one of them seems to be making something out of the second chance they were given.
yea, the one kid Golden is at least staying out of trouble.  The Johnson kid gets caught up with drugs, theft and weapons charges and back in the system for 10-15 years.  I wonder why they didn't give him the OJ treatment and put him away for good on the second round of charges?  He'll be in his 30's/early 40's when he gets out again..  I'm sure that'll go well.

According to Langman, Golden was a psychopath. He was the youngest school shooter at 11 years old and even before he came up with the idea for a mass shooting he had a history of sadistic and intimidating behavior.
Peter Langman wrote:
When  he  was  away  from  his  parents  and  teachers,  however,  Drew  showed  a different side of himself. Neighbors described him as “ a little demon,” “ mean-spirited,” and “ evil-acting.” He was hostile, aggressive, and threatening toward other children. He hit girls. He cursed and yelled at his peers. He threatened to shoot them with his BB gun. He rode his bicycle with a knife strapped to his leg, intimidating other children.

And then there was his behavior with cats. Cats  had  a  way  of  disappearing  when  Drew  was  around.  He  killed  a  cat  by starving it in a barrel. He pushed the heads of kittens through a chain-link fence. He shot bottle rockets and BBs at cats, tied one to a clothesline and shot BBs at it, and slit the throats of others.

Journalists  at  the  trial  noted  a  disturbing  lack  of  emotion  in  the  boy  while  in court.  One  observer  said  that  Drew  “ seemed  almost  insouciant  in  his  court appearance.” Another said “ Drew appeared to not be interested in the proceedings.” Still another remarked on the difference between Mitchell and Drew: “ One of the boy killers  sat  in  court  yesterday  looking  relaxed  and  even  smiled  at  his  parents.  Drew Golden didn’t seem to have a care in the world as he listened to the charges that he committed  multiple  murder.  In  contrast  his  13-year-old  friend  Mitchell  Johnson sobbed.”

yea, despite his "silence" who would be surprised if he popped up down the road involved in something very heinous. I have always thought age shouldn't matter in regards to pre meditated first degree murder. Same with the insanity pleas.. who is to say they won't get off their meds or relapse by traumatic event and go off the reservation again?

Shooter in CO whom I forget the name, wounded two in an attempt to shoot several victims at his old middle school (guy was in his 30's). He did several years in a ward, but now is basically on house arrest, free and can even travel to approved near by places such as grocery stores etc.. He is even responsible for taking his own/unsupervised medications.

Our friends @ JeffCo made that brilliant call.

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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:22 pm

Tomb wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Ha! I love any O.J. reference! I'd like to hold a pillow over his face. And I'm being very generous and "humane" there. You're like a lot of us with a sensible world view (I just happen to have a dash of dark humor).

On a separate note, forgiveness is not mine to give. I sympathize with the parents, but my "forgiveness" is self serving.

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lol, that OJ was quite the guy. I was raised in the bible belt and parents that included a masters in theology, very active in the church etc.. we weren't allowed to sue people, turn the other cheek.. all that good stuff. The more I live and learn, study behaviors, psychology etc, I come to realize some people are just wired wrong, will never rehabilitate, always pose a threat and don't deserve the luxury of forgiveness.

If it helps at all.. I hear OJ is really struggling these days mentally and physically and his once abundant life of romancing, stalking and abusing beautiful women has been minimized to "playing catch" with a fellow TS inmate:)
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:33 pm

@Fatheroftwo Oh dear lord, my religious background was Hellfire and Brimnation. The moment I got a chance I said, yeah NO! I believe in God, but not a vengeful God. That indoctrination into being hell bound forever soured church for me. The hypocrisy in my church was sickening. For the chosen ones, they were heaven bound. The rest of us were doomed to hell. It's really a traumatic experience for a child.

I think that's why I eat fire 3 meals a day and raise hell...before cancer or whatever this affliction is.

Oh brad, while we are at it, I had an epiphany, if you will. Kyle Valasquez, a SPECIAL NEEDS student, totally deserved it. He was the Rocky of the class of '99. I have sprained my eyes from rolling them at some of these posts. Of course, that's sarcastic for those who....may not get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
yea, despite his "silence" who would be surprised if he popped up down the road involved in something very heinous.  I have always thought age shouldn't matter in regards to pre meditated first degree murder.  Same with the insanity pleas..  who is to say they won't get off their meds or relapse by traumatic event and go off the reservation again?

Shooter in CO whom I forget the name, wounded two in an attempt to shoot several victims at his old middle school (guy was in his 30's).  He did several years in a ward, but now is basically on house arrest, free and can even travel to approved near by places such as grocery stores etc..  He is even responsible for taking his own/unsupervised medications.

Our friends @ JeffCo made that brilliant call.
At least that guy didn't manage to decapitate someone and get back out into the community like Vince Li.
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I first heard about this case a few years ago but I just looked for an article to post here and coincidentally, this guy actually won the right to be discharged and live independently with no supervision today.

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Fatheroftwo
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:27 pm

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[/quote]
At least that guy didn't manage to decapitate someone and get back out into the community like Vince Li.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I first heard about this case a few years ago but I just looked for an article to post here and coincidentally, this guy actually won the right to be discharged and live independently with no supervision today.[/quote]

Just wow, sscc with the find of the day.

So a guy cuts a dudes head off while riding a Greyhound bus and while the other bus riders flee in horror he dangles the head and taunts before deciding to get in a lil snack/eating the mans eyes and heart? Making sport out of decapitation and cannibalism in a public venue could be described as a little different I suppose.

The guy serves <6 years in a max security mental health facility and is set free. Oh my.
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PostSubject: Re: Forgiving Sue Klebold   Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:27 am

Why didn't someone stop Golden from starving that poor cat to death? If it was known after he did that, nobody knew before? That's a lot crueler than shooting one and killing it.

I can't help but to feel sorry for Mitchell Johnson.
Nothing can excuse what he did but I know he was a victim of molestation in his background and somehow he seemed like a very troubled kid.Unlike Golden he seemed show some remorse and it seemed sincere at least on the surface. He seemed to have a very hard time adjusting to life in society after spending most of his teen years in jail.

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