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 "bye"

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bradt93
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PostSubject: "bye"   Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:23 pm

In Sue Klebolds interview with Diane Sawyer back in February, she said Dylan's last words to her was "bye" as he was leaving the house. She said he said it in a mean and sarcastic way, not really acting like himself. Should she of stopped him right there before he left?
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:12 am

Easy to say when you already know everything. There were many cautionary signs that no one paid attention. There are things that do not depend on us, and we shouldn't blame yourself for it.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Easy to say when you already know everything. There were many cautionary signs that no one paid attention. There are things that do not depend on us, and we shouldn't blame yourself for it.
You can tell in that interview she loved her son very much and she would've done anything for him. In my opinion he didn't deserve a good mother like her.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:23 am

What was stopping him going to do? He'd just come up with some excuse like "I'm just a little annoyed that I have to get up early to give so and so a ride to bowling class at 6 o'clock in the morning". Dylan and Eric planned, bought supplies for and put together everything they needed to bomb and shoot up the school and their parents never suspected a thing. I seriously doubt his Mom stopping him to see why he had a mean attitude that morning was going to stop it from happening.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Easy to say when you already know everything. There were many cautionary signs that no one paid attention. There are things that do not depend on us, and we shouldn't blame yourself for it.
You can tell in that interview she loved her son very much and she would've done anything for him. In my opinion he didn't deserve a good mother like her.
Actually we don't know what their relationships were. Dylan called his parents zombies that wanted to manipulate him.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:21 am

I always kinda wondered why they didn't kill their parents, too.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:28 am

I think they deep down they still love their family anyhow.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think they deep down they still love their family anyhow.
I think they loved their family and didn't want to kill them. It seemed that people they knew, they weren't able to kill such as John Savage. With all the planning they did for April 20, if they wanted to kill their parents, they would have planned it. But they never planned on killing their parents. Their main focus was to bomb the school and shoot those trying to escape. It might have been more humane if they had killed their parents. Instead they left them to deal with the aftermath of the massacre.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think they loved their family and didn't want to kill them. It seemed that people they knew, they weren't able to kill such as John Savage. With all the planning they did for April 20, if they wanted to kill their parents, they would have planned it. But they never planned on killing their parents. Their main focus was to bomb the school and shoot those trying to escape. It might have been more humane if they had killed their parents. Instead they left them to deal with the aftermath of the massacre.
You have a very good point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. They loved them, but they let them suffer with the aftermath.
I'm not sure what to make of the fact they didn't kill anyone they knew or liked when faced with that day except that it made it look like a targeted, revenge killing in the beginning. I mean they still took innocent people out to prove their point not bullies, but when they saw a friend as you said John they let him go.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:04 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] very interesting comments and the more I think about it, the more I completely agree! If E & D wanted to kill their parents/family, it would've been planned out like everything else. I sometimes wonder if E & D's parents/family almost wish they killed them first. I couldn't imagine living the life they've lived!! Sad
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] very interesting comments and the more I think about it, the more I completely agree!  If E & D wanted to kill their parents/family, it would've been planned out like everything else.  I sometimes wonder if E & D's parents/family almost wish they killed them first.  I couldn't imagine living the life they've lived!! Sad
I read somewhere (probably Sue's book) that she and her husband both said that they wished Dylan would have killed them first.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:47 pm


From Sue's Book, A Mother's Reckoning:


Of course, I understood why people did not want Dylan and Eric to be mourned or memorialized, but this unchallenged display of anger frightened us. Within a few days of his arrival, my brother accepted an offer to sleep at a neighbor’s house. He urged us to leave with him. “You’re in such a state of shock, you can’t see how dangerous this is.”

We were in shock, but the bigger issue was that we just didn’t care. One particularly bad night, Tom said wearily, “I wish he’d killed us, too.” It was a thought we would have on many occasions over the years.


And,


It’s funny I don’t have more to say about surviving cancer; I certainly didn’t feel detached or blasé about it when it was happening. It was treated, and I moved on with gratitude. But after I recovered, I realized I’d been wrong in the journal entry that begins this chapter: I did not want to die.

Tom would often say he wished Dylan had killed us too, or that we’d never been born at all. I prayed I’d pass away in my sleep, a quiet deliverance from the agony of waking up and realizing it hadn’t all been a terrible nightmare. Sitting in traffic, I’d fantasize about being given the opportunity to trade my life for the people who had died at the school, or being presented with the chance to sacrifice myself to save a large group. Dying would be a relief, I thought, and dying to save others would give my miserable life purpose.

Surviving breast cancer helped me to see (as perhaps we all should) that my life was a gift. My work, going forward, would be to find a way to honor that gift.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:57 pm

None of this should've happened. I hope all the victims are finally in peace. I hope in the future we have background checks for the mentally ill so they can't buy a gun and an aggressive ant-bullying program.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:09 pm


Unforunately, it has happened many times:

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:08 am

They love their parents but it proves for the both of them it's harder to take their families' lives. They loved them but they were sorry they had to leave them to deal. Infact I'm pretty sure Eric made an apology such as that on the basement tapes. He knew what he was doing and he was sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They love their parents but it proves for the both of them it's harder to take their families' lives. They loved them but they were sorry they had to leave them to deal. Infact I'm pretty sure Eric made an apology such as that on the basement tapes. He knew what he was doing and he was sorry.
Exactly, they left them with the fallout afterwards, but they didn't care. It also shows how selfish they were.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:38 pm

I am pretty darn sure Dylan could really care less what he left behind. I think he did love his parents sure but I think his hatred of his life and all other things was stronger than that love. I don't think it was his intent to hurt them but I am sure he didn't give it a passing thought.


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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:48 pm

do you think eric cared a little more? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
do you think eric cared a little more? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think he did. He obv still did what he did no matter how he felt about his parents but him taking the time to mention them in the BT stands out to me. I don't think Eric looked down on life as much as Dylan did. I do think he saw the light in the tunnel at times so to speak so I do think Eric knew he would miss things while Dylan didn't care as much and just wanted out
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:59 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
do you think eric cared a little more? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think he did.  He obv still did what he did no matter how he felt about his parents but him taking the time to mention them in the BT stands out to me.  I don't think Eric looked down on life as much as Dylan did.  I do think he saw the light in the tunnel at times so to speak so I do think Eric knew he would miss things while Dylan didn't care as much and just wanted out
Why didn't Sue or the Harris's put their kids in an mental institution so they could get help? I know Sue said from her interview, she didn't see the signs, but that paper Dylan wrote and was given to the school counselor. I mean come on that paper he wrote, you could tell he was crying for help. I don't get why the counselor didn't see anything wrong with it, either he was an idiot or wasn't thinking.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
do you think eric cared a little more? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think he did.  He obv still did what he did no matter how he felt about his parents but him taking the time to mention them in the BT stands out to me.  I don't think Eric looked down on life as much as Dylan did.  I do think he saw the light in the tunnel at times so to speak so I do think Eric knew he would miss things while Dylan didn't care as much and just wanted out
Why didn't Sue or the Harris's put their kids in an mental institution so they could get help? I know Sue said from her interview, she didn't see the signs, but that paper Dylan wrote and was given to the school counselor. I mean come on that paper he wrote, you could tell he was crying for help. I don't get why the counselor didn't see anything wrong with it, either he was an idiot or wasn't thinking.

The paper itself is up for a bit of debate. Sue says she asked Dylan to see it but he never showed her and she forgot. The teacher said she would show it to a counselor and call the Klebolds if there were any issues but there is debate as to whether or not she actually did this. There were quite a few signs that Dylan threw out there showing he needed some help, but unfortunately no one put 2 and 2 together and he slipped thru the cracks. Just so happens he killed others and not just himself. I don't think either of them needed an "institution" persay but they did need help.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:58 pm

I think the Harris's did a disservice for Eric when they moved out of Michigan, because apparently from what I heard, Eric liked his old school there. I know his dad Wayne was in the army and had to move a lot, but I think that could've affected him emotionally.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I was a military brat, too, and while it's not always fun to have to start over constantly, it doesn't necessarily cause harm, either. Plus Eric was in Colorado from middle school onward. He had a nice, wealthy and stable life with plenty of friends. He was just a spoiled, malicious jerk who hated life and decided to take as many people out with him as he could.


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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:16 am

While Eric and Dylan are indeed spoilt jerks who were ungrateful, in Eric's case, who's to say all the rejection, failed effort and constant breaking off and moving he felt/went through didn't upset him and take a toll on him. Many times I know exactly what what he goes through. He probably couldn't understand why no one treasured him or wanted to be around him. The few good people who meant something to him, he had to move away from or weren't near him (like the Jen girl from LSU he talked to online). I think of the two Eric still had love for his family before he did the massacre. He still had a little of feelings in him. Dylan was flat out of it.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:34 am

Moving nearly always upsets kids. But it doesn't generally turn them into homicidal maniacs.

As for no-one treasuring him, I think that's a bit of an overstatement. He had nothing but good things to say about his parents who clearly loved him. He adored his older brother. And Susan clearly liked him a lot. Then there were the friends he moved away from that he kept in touch with over email. He might not have been popular but he was loved.

There was something like 29 days left in the school year. Columbine would have been behind him. He could've dated Susan or gone to see his friends or enrolled in university. But no. He decided humanity didn't deserve this Earth and so decided to kill as many of us that he could.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:42 am

We need to remember that there's our perspective and then there's his. I understand because I think those are what HE sees then eventually feels. He can't understand why people don't want to be around him but he doesn't know why, he thinks he tries but we don't know how hard. And we were not in his mental state, all those that he had went through could easily be the last straw FOR HIM and he couldn't take it anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:45 am

I could easily be blinded by the things I go through and therefore put a conclusion to how I see human beings and this world. But I also have the capability to eventually take a step back and assess the thing as a whole. Eric seemed like someone who's determined to see it through his way.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:50 am

He waited and planned NBK for a year. That's not a moment of snapping, or a final straw, that's a year of premeditation. That showed patience and determinatIon. And he got off on doing it. He had plenty of time to change his mind or find another way to cope, the way the rest of us do. But he wanted to play God and he did.
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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:51 am

He planned it indeed and then he waited for a reason to go through with it. He might've hoped for a reason to back out but there wasn't one. He couldn't even get caught.

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PostSubject: Re: "bye"   Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:53 am

How do we know he waited for a reason to go through with it?
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