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 Additional Shooters

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Tartarus

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PostSubject: Additional Shooters   Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:44 am

I am a strong believer in there being multiple shooters and that more people were injured/killed than the media tells us. Remember, cant always trust the media, look who owns them...
So many witnesses claim there were multiple shooters, I am a strong believer that Perry and Morris were shooters, and that there was a rooftop shooter.

The Addtional "Suspects" Of Columbine
This is a partial list of other people named by witnesses as being additional shooters or somehow involved in the attack. Most of these people were interviewed by police who cleared them as suspects claiming they had alibis. It turns out that the alibis in question are not as strong as the public has been led to believe. For example, most of the alibis are the mother or 'close friend swears person was at home or with them'-variety. Other 'suspects' listed have never been identified but were sighted by multiple witnesses.


Eric Harris - Known shooter, identified by witnesses

Dylan Klebold - Known shooter, identified by witnesses

The BMW Gang - Circa 40 minutes before the shooting a construction worker claimed he spotted a BMW, matching the description of Klebold's car, with 4 occupants do a u-turn in front of the school.

Chris Morris - Morris was claimed by several students to be the leader of the so-called "trench coat mafia". He was named by several witnesses as being a shooter and was actually taken into police custody before being released. Morris' alibi is that although he was at school in the morning that he cut class and went to a friends house to play video games prior to the start of the shootings. Morris also claimed to have gone to the before-school bowling class on 4/20 but his name does not appear on the roster. Morris' mother was a police officer.

Robert Perry - Multiple witnesses named him as being a shooter. Perry was a 'trench coater' but had graduated or dropped out the year prior. Perry was in the habit of spending time at the school to visit his friends. Perry had horrible acne at the time and this was a consistent feature described by witnesses. Of all the witnesses who actually named an additional shooter, the majority of the witnesses named Perry. Perry's alibi is, like most of the people named as additional shooters, his mother (now deceased).

Brian Sargent - Not identified by name, but several witnesses described a person extremely similar to Sargent, a short, chubby/fat shooter with a round face. Sargent is important as circa a dozen witnesses described an overweight shooter. Neither Harris nor Klebold were overweight. In fact, Sargent was reportedly the only member of the 'trench coaters' who was overweight. Sargent's alibi is that he was hanging out with friends after going to a local Burger King. It's not known how far the police checked out this alibi or whether they just accepted it at face value.

Joe Stair - Identified by name as being involved by several witnesses. However, no witness actually observed him to be holding or firing a gun. At least 5 witnesses heard other shooters say the name 'Joe'. At least 2 of the witnesses said a phrase similar to, "Joe, I have three of them in here", was made by other shooters. Mrs. Mikesell, an employee of Columbine High School, advised police that several students came and told her that Joe Stair had been seen in the school during the shootings. Like Perry, Joe Stair was not a current student of Columbine High School. Stair's alibi is that he claims he was at home with his mother until he left to pick up his sister at the library circa noon. There is no indication Stair's mother or sister were ever interviewed by police to either confirm or deny Stairs alleged alibi. In 2007, Stair was found hanged to death. Some speculate that it was not a suicide as Stair's body was found with a bloodied nose and with blood on the floor. Interestingly, Stair died shortly after he began posting on a message board dedicated to the Columbine tragedy.

Eric Dutro - A 'trench-coater', at least one witness claims the shooter she saw may have been Eric Dutro.

Nate Dykeman - Best friend of Dylan Klebold. (More info to come)

Eric Veik - Friend of Dylan Klebold, helped to make videos with Klebold and Harris, was not identified by witnesses as being a shooter; however, was the person who put the 'Thought of the Day", reading, "Bet you wish you weren't here today", on the school's monitors. Veik was arrested in October of 1999 for allegedly threatening to perform a repeat of 4/20. Veik was also investigated by police in conjunction with an alleged plan to blow up another school.

The Splatter Punks - Matt Nalty, Matt Akard, and Jim Brunetti, three young men who were not students of Columbine who were arrested by police in the field outside of the school. They were friends of Eric Harris. At least one witness placed them in the school in the morning before the shooting. The trio were also sighted by at least one witness at nearby Clement Park as well. According to Sheriff Stone, the three claimed they came to the school to check the scene out after hearing of the shooting on the radio. According to Stone, there were no reports on the radio at that time. The trio allegedly gave alibis involving parents or being in the company of each other and were quickly released by police.

The Balding Man - A balding man with blond hair, a chiseled face, and muscular body, described as being in his 30s, was witnessed by at least 2 witnesses. The unidentified man was in the company of a younger shooter. The unidentified man was mistaken by one witness as being a police officer until she saw that he carried a sawed-off shotgun. A witness even made a sketch of this unknown man. The witness claimed police pressured her to say that this man was Eric Harris, even though she knew Harris personally and knew it was not him.

The Round-Face Shooter - Several witnesses described a male with a round or full face as being a shooter. Refer to Brian Sargent above.

The Blue Jeans Bomber - Several witnesses described a male wearing a white shirt and blue jeans who threw pipe bombs onto the roof of the school. This bomber was seen in the company of two other people, with most descriptions of the other two people as wearing trench coats. Police insist that this was Eric Harris. Harris wore a white shirt during the attack but not blue jeans.

The Masked Shooter - Several witnesses described a male shooter who wore a mask.

The Blond-Tipped Shooter - At least two witnesses described an older male shooter with shaved hair on the sides of the head, longer darker hair on the top of the head, with bleached or blond tips to the hair. This description does not match either Harris or Klebold.

The Park Bomber - A pipe bomb was detonated in the nearby Clement Park shortly before the start of the shootings. A witness described seeing a male with a moustache.

The Park Shooter - One witness told police that he saw a person hiding in the bushes while shooting a gun at nearby Weaver park. The witness allegedly complained that he thought the police did not take his story seriously.

The Black/White Camo Pants Shooter - Several witnesses, including at least one teacher, described a shooter wearing black and white camouflage pants. Neither Harris nor Klebold wore these pants during the shooting. Interestingly, in at least one video made by Harris and Klebold, there is one person who was wearing black and white camo pants.

The Rooftop Shooter - Several witnesses described seeing at least one shooter on the rooftop of the school. At least one witness claims he was told by police to keep running as there was a shooter on the roof.

The German-Speaking Shooter - A few witnesses described a shooter wearing either a red or orange shirt, a trench coat, baggy pants, and who spoke German. It was later learned that German was spoken at 'trench coat mafia' meetings.

The 20-ish Shooter - At least one teacher described an older shooter, looking to be in his 20s and not a student at the school. One parent also claimed to have seen an older, 20-ish, man hanging around a group of students dressed in black at the school while dropping off her daughter on the morning of 4/20. This shooter may or may not be the same as 'the balding man' listed above.

The Duffel Bag Carriers - Several witnesses described people carrying unusual duffel bags. Most of the descriptions of these people do not match Harris or Klebold. It is believed the bags contained guns, bombs, and knives used in the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:16 am

It is a mixture of different memories of witnesses with the rumors. Although I admit the idea that there were people who knew quite a lot about plans or figured on something like this, but decided to remain silent.

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Acid84

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:26 am

I think if there were multiple shooters the death toll would be far greater, with the deaths of each student easily attrituble to Eric or Dylan (witness testimony and coinciding with cctv and police reports)
The boys acted alone, I guess some witnesses perhaps in the chaos got a bit confused which is only normal

I also dont believe the boys would of trusted anyone else as much as they did each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:57 am

That's an awful lot of people who have managed to keep quiet for nearly 2 decades. There's a saying, "Three people can keep a secret...if two are dead." I think that rings true here. I can't see that many people involved and then end up with such a low body count. You also have to consider eyewitness accounts, which are notoriously bad. Two people can witness the same thing and tell very different versions of the events and even describe the perp's physical characteristics completely opposite of each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:35 am

I don't think there's a third or more shooter, but as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said, I do think someone in their circle of acquaintances knew well this was going to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't think there's a third or more shooter, but as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said, I do think someone in their circle of acquaintances knew well this was going to happen.
Yeah I definately agree, whether a few close friends were just warned "dont be at school on apr 20th" or perhaps they trusted a few with more information I think if anyone it would be Chris Morris and Nate Dykeman.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:48 am

Yeah absolutely, I believe some people were warned, but I can't get my head around an army basically shooting kids and just ending up with those that Eric and Dylan killed.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:04 am

Tomb wrote:
Yeah absolutely, I believe some people were warned, but I can't get my head around an army basically shooting kids and just ending up with those that Eric and Dylan killed.
Exactly, I have always thought that Chris Morris had prior knowledge for some reason I have always foudn him untruthful when giving his statement "If they had looked at my attendance for that class they would realise I had skipped the last month" as if to say that 100% meant he can't have had any information and then a smug smile following, I play poker alot and if I was against that guy in a hand and he had just raised me all in I would call in a heartbeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:16 am

Well, by his own admission, it could be that he knew at least a month in advance and decided to set the stage, so to speak, by skipping his class, thinking it would lend credence to his claim of having no prior knowledge of the event. That's EXACTLY what I would do, if I knew something was going down, but I wanted to appear as innocent as possible. "Just look at my attendance! I skipped class for a month straight!"
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:21 am

Tomb wrote:
Well, by his own admission, it could be that he knew at least a month in advance and decided to set the stage, so to speak, by skipping his class, thinking it would lend credence to his claim of having no prior knowledge of the event. That's EXACTLY what I would do, if I knew something was going down, but I wanted to appear as innocent as possible. "Just look at my attendance! I skipped class for a month straight!"
Yeah thats what I took from it too I dont believe that the Jeff co Police are stupid however releasing somebody because they are innocent or releasing someone because they have no evidence both have the same outcome. Kinda hard to prove two dead guys told one alive guy something Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:21 am

I want to add that I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just that I could imagine trying your damnedest to cover your ass so you're not locked up for conspiracy or murder or something. There's so many characters that come across as shady to me that who even knows what the truth is. It's frustrating.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:30 am

Actually, I should clarify this statement: That's EXACTLY what I would do, if I knew something was going down, but I wanted to appear as innocent as possible. "Just look at my attendance! I skipped class for a month straight!"

That's not what I would do. I would turn their asses in so fast their damn heads would spin. I think if people knew or had some idea of what was going to happen, that must be a damn heavy burden to carry. Especially since they're not carefree teenagers now.
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shades
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:44 am

The thing is though, their talk of violence is like an open secret. If you think about it from people's accounts and memories, there were many claims that they ALWAYS talked violence and talked about shooting people up especially coming from Eric. They never hid SAYING it. It's just a couple of people not knowing that they meant it. I feel like Chris knew they planned something, but I think he just never took it seriously. So yes some of their friends knew that E&D talked about causing some harm but they can't be sure they'd do it.

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If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:58 am

This is a small community. I understand shock can confuse people and witness testimony is iffy. But a lot of these kids grew up together since Kindergarden and straight up named these guys as being shooters. OVer 40 people named them. If over 40 people saw OJ kill Nicole that trial would have gone differently. I don't think you can ignore that evidence.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:29 pm

I recall reading somewhere that Nate Dykeman said there were definitely two more shooters who backed out at the last minute, but that Eric and Dylan went ahead with the plan. If that's true, my guess is it was Chris Morris and Robert Perry. To have that many people identify them specifically makes me very suspicious. Especially since so many people were adamant that the TCM was involved, and CM was known as its leader. Eric and Dylan were only fringe members.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:02 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I recall reading somewhere that Nate Dykeman said there were definitely two more shooters who backed out at the last minute, but that Eric and Dylan went ahead with the plan. If that's true, my guess is it was Chris Morris and Robert Perry. To have that many people identify them specifically makes me very suspicious. Especially since so many people were adamant that the TCM was involved, and CM was known as its leader. Eric and Dylan were only fringe members.

Where did you read that? I find it so hard to believe though, it's most likely Nate's initial speculation. I mean I know for Chris Morris he said he was there when Eric and Dylan were "planning". So as I said above, Eric and Dylan talked of shooting infront of certain people, but these people took it as a joke and not serious. After it happened their friends then put two and two together and thought oh yeah So and So might've been involved, etc.
I don't think there's an actual "backing out", it was meant to be only Eric and Dylan's execution all along.

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If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:36 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nathan Dykeman, email exchange of 9-17-06

"...anyway yes there were 2 more people in the school with handguns but they decided to bail.... eric and dylan went threw with it and the other 2 did not... dylan had no doubt in his mind he wanted to do this...

Not sure how credible that source is...

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:13 am

Thank you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Wow, those are alot of accounts of multiple shooters though. Way too many.

_________________
If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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lasttrain
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:39 am

There were multiple shooters. Two of them. Eric and Dylan.

All the other accounts are people who misidentified Eric and Dylan as someone else, or passed along rumors to law enforcement as truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:41 am

What I'm saying is I didn't realise there were many accounts of people saying more than two which is yes infact just Eric and Dylan, though some are believing more people were originally part of the planned but "backed out".

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If you're so very good looking
Why do you sleep alone tonight?
I know because tonight is just like any other night
That's why you're on your own tonight
With your triumphs and your charms
While they are in each other's arms
Oh mother, I can feel the soil falling over my head
And as I climb into an empty bed
Oh well, enough said

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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:43 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nathan Dykeman, email exchange of 9-17-06

"...anyway yes there were 2 more people in the school with handguns but they decided to bail.... eric and dylan went threw with it and the other 2 did not... dylan had no doubt in his mind he wanted to do this...

Not sure how credible that source is...


I don't believe personally that there were other shooters that backed out the last minute. Makes no sense to me at all. Eric and Dylan were the only shooters and the only people that "knowingly" planned it.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:02 pm

An additional problem with the multiple shooters, theory, in addition to the complete lack of hard evidence and the alibis for everyone accused of being a third shooter, is that Eric and Dylan do not mention other shooters during their extended ideations about the shooting.

This doesn't square with their behavior regarding accomplices. Eric and Dylan gladly exposed Mark Manes, Phil Duran, and Robyn Anderson for their involvement as unwitting accomplices. Yet they make no mention of another direct accomplice.

The multiple shooters theory has never had any good evidence to back it up, but conspiracy theories rarely do.
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PostSubject: Re: Additional Shooters   Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:17 pm

The way that the cops and FBI were all over this even using 90's era forensics this would have come to surface almost immediately. not to mention that as conniving and secretive high school students can be, they lack the covert skills to keep this under wraps and would have been apprehended in quick order. Now could have others known about their plan and kept quiet, absolutely. But a conspiracy of this magnitude is highly unlikely.

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