Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Dylan's great love decoded?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:28 pm

Tobin Kennedy

Tobin Kennedy 11k (part 1)

Tobin Kennedy 11k (part 2)


Last edited by tfsa47090 on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : *HAD TO REMOVE DIRECT TUMBLR LINK*)
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:53 pm

Thanks, I missed this part.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:42 pm

@em81 wrote:
something about Tobin:

Eric Harris asked Tobin out but Tobin declined him. Source: her sister Deborah Deanna Tobin
Interested in seeing this source from the sister Deborah Deanna. Can you please link me?
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:40 pm

I read Deborahs statement in the 11k, sorry i have no link. Now I read all 11k documents, but there are so much.

Tobin Kennedy said that Klebold was at her workplace, but in the 11k I did not find any evidence that she was a columbine student. In 11k I did not read there was no statement that klebold asked her out.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:10 pm

@em81 wrote:
I read Deborahs statement in the 11k, sorry i have no link. Now I read all 11k documents, but there are so much.

Tobin Kennedy said that Klebold was at her workplace, but in the 11k I did not find any evidence that she was a columbine student. In 11k I did not read there was no statement that klebold asked her out.
That's right, Tobin didn't go to Columbine HS. I can't recall off hand which one she went to..
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:07 am

My fault: I forgot how it was to be a teenager. (I am only six month older as Dylan) One time I fell in love with some guy for no reason (maybe he was funny or had beautiful eyes, I dont know) . And after two or three month I got a new crush for no reason. I never displayed my feelings because I was shy as Dylan was. But it was good because today I want not like some of these guys and had my boyfriend since 6 years.


I think the one girl he wrote the decoded poem could be tobin or another girl. But all the time I think about the girl he wrote the incredible letter (so i had to cry how it hurts to read somethink like that) I do not know how many different girls he mentioned, maybe we will never know. The girl he wrote the letter, was once in his class and worked with him. And she had a strange name, think a strange forename. I think it would be helpful to know when he wrote this letter, but the letter was undated.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:50 pm

There is a lot of great information on this thread.  I believe this is a very important topic because I think Dylan's feelings of "love" for girls were an important contributing factor to his homicidal ideation.

I just wanted to throw into the discussion this strange passage from around April 15 which begins at JC-001-026484.  Who is Dylan writing about here?  Is it a "her" or a "he" on the page?  Same girl as the one from junior year? I believe this is a very important passage because it gives us some sense of how Dylan thought about what he was going to do (i.e. as a kind of "Romeo and Juliet" doomed lovers scenario)

Because i cant stay thinking in a 2nd dimension, i go to the 5th! haha. so i wait 5 more days. 5 more days. 5 eternitys. & i know he[r] [sp?] & i are concieved from ourselves & each other. every night of the self-awareness journey, every thought we concieved, we have finished the race. time to die. everything we knew, we were able to understand it, to percieve it, into what we should, everything we knew, we know & use. an understanding of the everything. An einstein stuck in an ant's body. we are the nature of existence. the zombies were a test to see if our love was genuine. we are in wait of our reward, each other. the zombies will never cause us pain anymore. the humanity was a test. I love you, love. Time to die, time to be free, time to love.


For faster reference its 569/946 here.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:04 pm

@lasttrain wrote:
There is a lot of great information on this thread.  I believe this is a very important topic because I think Dylan's feelings of "love" for girls were an important contributing factor to his homicidal ideation.

I just wanted to throw into the discussion this strange passage from around April 15 which begins at JC-001-026484.  Who is Dylan writing about here?  Is it a "her" or a "he" on the page?  Same girl as the one from junior year?  I believe this is a very important passage because it gives us some sense of how Dylan thought about what he was going to do (i.e. as a kind of "Romeo and Juliet" doomed lovers scenario)

Because i cant stay thinking in a 2nd dimension, i go to the 5th! haha. so i wait 5 more days. 5 more days. 5 eternitys. & i know he[r] [sp?] & i are concieved from ourselves & each other. every night of the self-awareness journey, every thought we concieved, we have finished the race. time to die. everything we knew, we were able to understand it, to percieve it, into what we should, everything we knew, we know & use. an understanding of the everything. An einstein stuck in an ant's body. we are the nature of existence. the zombies were a test to see if our love was genuine. we are in wait of our reward, each other. the zombies will never cause us pain anymore. the humanity was a test. I love you, love. Time to die, time to be free, time to love.


For faster reference its 569/946 here.

http://acolumbinesite.com/reports/cr/p25923-26859-936columbinedocs.pdf

This passage was discussed in detail in this thread.
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:16 pm

I want know who this girl was... I am sorry for Dylan every time I read this. Doea anyone know when he wrote this letter? I think he wrote it in 1998 after the incident.

I love you ,
You don’t consciously know who I am (please don’t skip to the back: read the note as it was written), & doubtedly unconsciously too. I, who write this, love you beyond infinince. I think about you all the time, how this world would be a better place if you loved me as I do you. I know what you’re thinking: “(some psycho wrote me this harassing letter)” I hoped we could have been together … you seem a bit like me. Pensive, quiet, an observer, not wanting what is offered here (school, life, etc.) you almost seem lonely, like me. You probably have a boyfriend though, & might not have given this note another thought. I have thought you my true love for a long time now, but … well … there was hesitation. You see I can’t tell if you think of anyone as I do you, & if you did who that would be. Fate put me in need of you, yet this earth blocked that with uncertainties. I will go away soon, but I just had to write this to you, the one I truly loved. Please, for my sake, don’t tell anybody about this, as it was only meant for you. Also, please don’t feel any guilt about my soon-to-be “absence” of this world (it is solely my decision: no one else’s) oh … the thoughts of us … doing everything together, not necessarily anything, just to be together would have been pure heaven. I guess it’s time to tell you who I am. I was in a class with you 1st semester, & was blessed with being with you in a report. I still remember your laugh. Innocent, beautiful, pure. This semester I still see you – rarely. I am entranced
during 5th period, as we both have it off. To most people, I appear … well … almost scary, but that’s who I appear to be as people are afraid of what they don’t understand. I denied who I was for a long time. Until high school…. anyway, you have noticed me a few times, I catch every one of these gazes with an open heart. I think you know who I am by now. Unfortunately … even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal. I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I’m writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence. You know what I mean (suicide). I have nothing to live for, & I wont be able to survive in this world after this legal conviction. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you … I would find a way to survive. Anything to be with you. I would enjoy life knowing that you loved me. 99/100 chances you probably think I’m crazy, & want to stay as far away as possible. If that’s the case, then I’m very sorry for involving an innocent person in my problems, & please don’t think twice. However, if you are who I hoped for in my dreams & realities, then do me a favor: leave a piece of paper in my locker saying anything that comes to you. Well, I guess this is it – goodbye, & I love(d) you.
Dylan Klebold [with locker information]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
areyoulistening



Posts : 326
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Ireland

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I want know who this girl was... I am sorry for Dylan every time I read this. Doea anyone know when he wrote this letter? I think he wrote it in 1998 after the incident.

I love you ,
You don’t consciously know who I am (please don’t skip to the back: read the note as it was written), & doubtedly unconsciously too. I, who write this, love you beyond infinince. I think about you all the time, how this world would be a better place if you loved me as I do you. I know what you’re thinking: “(some psycho wrote me this harassing letter)” I hoped we could have been together … you seem a bit like me. Pensive, quiet, an observer, not wanting what is offered here (school, life, etc.) you almost seem lonely, like me. You probably have a boyfriend though, & might not have given this note another thought. I have thought you my true love for a long time now, but … well … there was hesitation. You see I can’t tell if you think of anyone as I do you, & if you did who that would be. Fate put me in need of you, yet this earth blocked that with uncertainties. I will go away soon, but I just had to write this to you, the one I truly loved. Please, for my sake, don’t tell anybody about this, as it was only meant for you. Also, please don’t feel any guilt about my soon-to-be “absence” of this world (it is solely my decision: no one else’s) oh … the thoughts of us … doing everything together, not necessarily anything, just to be together would have been pure heaven. I guess it’s time to tell you who I am. I was in a class with you 1st semester, & was blessed with being with you in a report. I still remember your laugh. Innocent, beautiful, pure. This semester I still see you – rarely. I am entranced
during 5th period, as we both have it off. To most people, I appear … well … almost scary, but that’s who I appear to be as people are afraid of what they don’t understand. I denied who I was for a long time. Until high school…. anyway, you have noticed me a few times, I catch every one of these gazes with an open heart. I think you know who I am by now. Unfortunately … even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal. I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I’m writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence. You know what I mean (suicide). I have nothing to live for, & I wont be able to survive in this world after this legal conviction. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you … I would find a way to survive. Anything to be with you. I would enjoy life knowing that you loved me. 99/100 chances you probably think I’m crazy, & want to stay as far away as possible. If that’s the case, then I’m very sorry for involving an innocent person in my problems, & please don’t think twice. However, if you are who I hoped for in my dreams & realities, then do me a favor: leave a piece of paper in my locker saying anything that comes to you. Well, I guess this is it – goodbye, & I love(d) you.
Dylan Klebold [with locker information]
I don't feel sorry for him at all. That's practically emotional blackmail, it almost reads as "love me back or I'll kill myself"

I understand when you're that emotionally distressed as he was, you don't have practical, rational thought.

" I want to go to a new existence. You know what I mean (suicide). I have nothing to live for, & I wont be able to survive in this world after this legal conviction. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you … I would find a way to survive. "

Is that really something that you would write to someone who doesn't even know who you are? It sounds like a massive cry for help. He must have realized after he wrote it that she would show someone and his depression would be uncovered, so he decided not to send it. That was found in his journal or somewhere if I'm not mistaken right?

Actually, I do take back what I said, I do feel somewhat sorry for him. He obviously craved love (or his perception of love) from this person and to tell her about his depression/ suicidal thoughts. Kind of like what Zack had with Devon. But as far as love letters go, it sounds deranged to me. He could have been drunk and emotional when he wrote it.

_________________
If Frodo can get the ring to Mordor, you can get out of bed.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:30 pm

Yes it was a massive cry for help. And yes it was in his diary. I don´t understand  why he did not trust his parents and asked them for help.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:19 pm

If Eric was a psychopath, Dylan strikes me as being an awful lot like John Hickley, who tried to assassinate President Reagan in order to "impress" Jodi Foster.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:28 pm

@em81 wrote:
Yes it was a massive cry for help. And yes it was in his diary. I don´t understand  why he did not trust his parents and asked them for help.
I recall that the whole family went to family counseling when Dylan's parents were having issues with Bryon and his drug habit.  I also read somewhere?? that Dylan's parents were also in the midst of a marital crisis. I have no idea of this is true but I do recall reading it once..ack.. somewhere..   I would be willing to bet that the group family counseling sessions were beyond awkward and excruciating for Dylan to handle.  Having to acknowlege possible weak, vulnerable feelings that he couldn't handle on his own, and in front of the entire family was, no doubt, embarassing.  I would bet that he mentally made a note that he should not make waves and confess any sort of depression problems because then his parents would send him off to therapy.   His Diversion questionaire he mentions under Attitude towards Mental Health Treatment - he writes: "Not necessary"  and under Have you had or do you have difficulties or problems he avoids ticking off anything that would call up a red flag.  He ticked off jobs and finances and does not allude to any emotional problems such as anger, depression or suicidal thoughts.

I think Dylan wrote that letter more for himself, in fantasy, than without the actual intent of neatly ripping it out of his diary, folding it up and physicially dropping it into 'Her' locker.  There is another part of his journal where you can see he's formulating paragraphs for it.  He scrawls "you know who I am" or "read this in the order it was intended" in between doodles.  Dylan then spends the time and effort to write his masterpiece all out, neatly, and in full.   He speaks in the past tense as if the letter has no prayer of actually obtaining anything of effect from his object de affection.  "I think about you all the time, how this world would be a better place If you loved me as I do you"  In between present tense bits of his sentences, he weaves in and out of his own negative emotions and self loathing and doubts: "I know what you're thinking: "(some psycho wrote me this harassing letter)"    This is what he thinks of himself and he is certain she would only find him crazy if he actually worked up te nerve to drop the note in her locker.

His emotions vacillate and the letter that, at one point, was actually meant for someone, abruptly morphs into a Suicide Note - it becomes an exercise in futility.  "please don't feel any guilt about my soon-to-be "absense" of this world, It is solely my decision: nobody else's."    The wishes for a potential relationship that will never ever come to pass and ends up in past tense:  "Oh... the the thoughts of w us... doing everything together, not necessarily anything, just to be together would have been pure heaven."  

He drifts back to the reality of an actual, concrete letter that he originally started out with that actually included an receiving audience - mentioning clues of how she should be able to guess by now who he is.  How they worked on a project together and "I catch everyone of your gazes with an open heart. You know who I am -- have you guessed yet?"  But then he pulls back into his own damnation, internalizing and stomping it out - that a potential relationship could never, ever be possible because, you see..  "Unfortunately... even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence."  

Dylan goes back to semi-present tense: "However, If you are are who I hoped for in my dreams &  realities, then do me this a favor: Leave a piece of paper in my locker, saying anything that comes to you."
then he tucks tail back into a past tense because he believes it to all be a dream and not to be a reality: "Well, I guess this is it-- goodbye & I love(d) you."   The end of the exercise becomes a suicide note meant for no one.  When he got to the finish line of writing it, I believe he mentally decided not to send it.   It was a wasted, emotional exorcise that had no potential of becoming a reality.
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:38 pm

@InFiNiNcEX5: thanks for your answer. I did not know about the marital crisis. Now I read the 11 k and what Mr. and Mrs. Klebod said, it was too perfect. That could not be the truth. Susan stated: " Byron were beginning to develop a good relationship" But Byron stated:"He was not very closesince he moved out in July 1997" And we know what Dylan said about his brother in the basement tapes, nothing good. The Klebolds thought Byron was the black sheep and overlooked that her youngest son is mentally ill. Creepy, but it is only my speculation.

You are right, with everything you wrote. You are very good to read between the lines. His selfloathing is stunning.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MarmaladeSkies



Posts : 77
Join date : 2013-03-24

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:52 am

Quote :
I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed
What did he mean by this? Was he referring to the van break-in? Was he really that melodramatic about it?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tragedy79



Posts : 487
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 38
Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:17 am

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes it was a massive cry for help. And yes it was in his diary. I don´t understand  why he did not trust his parents and asked them for help.
I recall that the whole family went to family counseling when Dylan's parents were having issues with Bryon and his drug habit.  I also read somewhere?? that Dylan's parents were also in the midst of a marital crisis. I have no idea of this is true but I do recall reading it once..ack.. somewhere..   I would be willing to bet that the group family counseling sessions were beyond awkward and excruciating for Dylan to handle.  Having to acknowlege possible weak, vulnerable feelings that he couldn't handle on his own, and in front of the entire family was, no doubt, embarassing.  I would bet that he mentally made a note that he should not make waves and confess any sort of depression problems because then his parents would send him off to therapy.   His Diversion questionaire he mentions under Attitude towards Mental Health Treatment - he writes: "Not necessary"  and under Have you had or do you have difficulties or problems he avoids ticking off anything that would call up a red flag.  He ticked off jobs and finances and does not allude to any emotional problems such as anger, depression or suicidal thoughts.

I think Dylan wrote that letter more for himself, in fantasy, than without the actual intent of neatly ripping it out of his diary, folding it up and physicially dropping it into 'Her' locker.  There is another part of his journal where you can see he's formulating paragraphs for it.  He scrawls "you know who I am" or "read this in the order it was intended" in between doodles.  Dylan then spends the time and effort to write his masterpiece all out, neatly, and in full.   He speaks in the past tense as if the letter has no prayer of actually obtaining anything of effect from his object de affection.  "I think about you all the time, how this world would be a better place If you loved me as I do you"  In between present tense bits of his sentences, he weaves in and out of his own negative emotions and self loathing and doubts: "I know what you're thinking: "(some psycho wrote me this harassing letter)"    This is what he thinks of himself and he is certain she would only find him crazy if he actually worked up te nerve to drop the note in her locker.

His emotions vacillate and the letter that, at one point, was actually meant for someone, abruptly morphs into a Suicide Note - it becomes an exercise in futility.  "please don't feel any guilt about my soon-to-be "absense" of this world, It is solely my decision: nobody else's."    The wishes for a potential relationship that will never ever come to pass and ends up in past tense:  "Oh... the the thoughts of w us... doing everything together, not necessarily anything, just to be together would have been pure heaven."  

He drifts back to the reality of an actual, concrete letter that he originally started out with that actually included an receiving audience - mentioning clues of how she should be able to guess by now who he is.  How they worked on a project together and "I catch everyone of your gazes with an open heart. You know who I am -- have you guessed yet?"  But then he pulls back into his own damnation, internalizing and stomping it out - that a potential relationship could never, ever be possible because, you see..  "Unfortunately... even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence."  

Dylan goes back to semi-present tense: "However, If you are are who I hoped for in my dreams &  realities, then do me this a favor: Leave a piece of paper in my locker, saying anything that comes to you."
then he tucks tail back into a past tense because he believes it to all be a dream and not to be a reality: "Well, I guess this is it-- goodbye & I love(d) you."   The end of the exercise becomes a suicide note meant for no one.  When he got to the finish line of writing it, I believe he mentally decided not to send it.   It was a wasted, emotional exorcise that had no potential of becoming a reality.
A very good post InfiNINcex5! That's how I see it as well.


_________________
Ignorance is bliss!-Dylan Klebold
Back to top Go down
View user profile
tragedy79



Posts : 487
Join date : 2013-03-15
Age : 38
Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:31 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Quote :
I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed
What did he mean by this? Was he referring to the van break-in? Was he really that melodramatic about it?
Yes, I think he was. I think this event was very traumatic for Dylan. He comes across as very ashamed. In his mind it was something very humiliating and I really think the van break-in was the main catalyst for Eric and Dylan to come together and planning the massacre. They both were agrieved(is this the right word?)to their cores. After they went to court, you can see how they adopt the pholosophies of the other one. So there must have been a deep conversation between them since they got arrested.

_________________
Ignorance is bliss!-Dylan Klebold
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:03 pm

@tragedy79 wrote:
@MarmaladeSkies wrote:
Quote :
I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed
What did he mean by this? Was he referring to the van break-in? Was he really that melodramatic about it?
Yes, I think he was. I think this event was very traumatic for Dylan. He comes across as very ashamed. In his mind it was something very humiliating and I really think the van break-in was the main catalyst for Eric and Dylan to come together and planning the massacre. They both were agrieved(is this the right word?)to their cores. After they went to court, you can see how they adopt the pholosophies of the other one. So there must have been a deep conversation between them since they got arrested.

Absolutely agree with Tragedy79 (and I'm glad my post resonated with you and Em81.) The Rebel Missions and the locker hacking probably seemed like prankish, harmless adrenaline rushes by comparison.  However, getting caught red-handed over the van theft was the first real ding that likely made Dylan feel dirty and  tainted.  In his own mind, it probably set him a part even more from humanity.  So, yes, "melodramatic' as it was, Dylan thought himself -now and forever more- in league with those outside of society, a criminal.  A criminal does not have any hope for a normal, decent and happy life.  The girl he loved could never stoop to be with such a societal pariah. In Far from the Tree, Sue Klebold relays how she confronted Dylan on the theft, and at first he is flippant about it, 'the morality escapes him',  but after she presses him, his emotional confession oozes out - that 'he was scared because suddenly he just found himself in the midst of doing it.'  Being arrested, having handcuffs put on him, Miranda Rights read to him and being stuck at the police station waiting for the reaction of his shocked, disappointed parents was like another heaping of self recrimination piled on top of his depressive, self loathing.  

Calence Emerson wrote this on his website, of which I completely agree.
They wanted revenge on the cops for arresting them in Jan ’98 because that ruined them on so many personal levels. Dylan was absolutely embarrassed, hardcore, he was ashamed of his arrest to a degree that just made him snap. His life was over with that arrest. He felt he could never get a job or be trusted by his family again. The arrest had a deep saddening effect on his life.
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:01 am

That is what I do not understand. First I have the impression (read Far from the tree) he did not regret the theft. He did not think it was wrong. Second I did not think theft is an unexuseable crime. I remeber I was young and I had stolen shampoo. And as Child, my friend and I had stolen some bubble gum. Ok, I did not get caught, so I don´t give a damn. It was a youthful indiscretion, everyone made some mistakes. But he was young and stupid, it wouldn´t haunt him the rest of his life. He had the chance to change his life and got help, but he did not want it. Or he lacked the courage and power to do it because of the deep depression.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:57 pm

@em81 wrote:
That is what I do not understand. First I have the impression (read Far from the tree) he did not regret the theft. He did not think it was wrong. Second I did not think theft is an unexuseable crime. I remeber I was young and I had stolen shampoo. And as Child, my friend and I had stolen some bubble gum. Ok, I did not get caught, so I don´t give a damn. It was a youthful indiscretion, everyone made some mistakes. But he was young and stupid, it wouldn´t haunt him the rest of his life. He had the chance to change his life and got help, but he did not want it. Or he lacked the courage and power to do it because of the deep depression.
While Dylan may not have initially regretted the act of theft at the time he was in the midst of it, everything else that came after -  the repercussions - compounded on him. The moment they embarrassingly got caught with a flash light shone on them was like a spotlight of shame.  The two boys concocted a story to the cop at first which Dylan abruptly realized was ridiculous and was not going to float. Dylan was the one that stepped forward with the truth, came clean and confessed exactly what they had done to the cop.  He must have realized it was futile to spin lies they wouldn't be able to wiggle out of later.  Everything else that came after : the actual arrest, the booking in the station, and the very serious condemnation from his parents began to all began to wear on him, and change him over time.  Even if he clung to the justification that he and Eric just targeted a company which had insurance, with that stubborn, cavalier teenage attitude -  all to make himself feel less guilty, his parents really gave him the third degree.  This was probably the worst confrontation he had ever had with his parents in his entire life.  Ever.  
His mother especially worked hard to break down his walls of silent complacence and did manage to break through a bit to reach those denied, vulnerable feelings that Dylan had become very adept at concealing from everyone. At this point,  I believe Dylan's  parents really needed to follow through on their son after this happened, to intervene and press for therapy and to really enforce a separation between him and Eric.

If Zack's parents really made an impression on him to stop interacting with Eric after the hacking incident, then the Klebold's should have road their son's ass to ensure he was back on the right track.  Whatever it took.  If they couldn't  prevent the two from being together - and I'm sure it wouldn't be very easy to keep 17/18 year old boys apart while in the same school - then maybe they should have thought about a school transfer.  I mean, a van theft is not a petty crime.  The parents were in major denial over their son, their confidence that he would manage to straighten himself out on his own - when he clearly needed help and didn't think he needed any help from anyone. And especially since his initial reaction towards his parents about the crime was that it was not his fault.  Big red flag.  Dylan may have felt scared at his impulsivity in doing the theft, and I don't doubt that his confession of that is true.  Sue had to strong armed him to cough that suppressed feeling up, that admission, that one tiny cry for help in her boy.  With a good therapist, the next step would have been to ask Dylan to examine why he suddenly found himself breaking into the van, even motivated enough to use large rocks to break the window. Why do you think you suddenly found yourself in the midst of doing this?  How were you feeling when you were doing this? Why did this scare you?  This is the kind of open dialog and expressed vocalization attached to a feeling that needed to be roused out of an internalizer like Dylan.   He was content to subconsciously rationalize that it wasn't a big deal; this is where he needed his family's guidance most.  Instead, the parents may have grounded him for a month or so and they put all their faith in the diversion program to take care of things and straighten him out. Meanwhile, Dylan continues on the path of emotional lock down. Combined with his hidden depression, his feelings are like embers that are slowly being snuffed out.   He was becoming simultaneously resentful of authority, his parents, the cops and society in general and also more numb. Hanging out with Eric didn't help because his buddy reinforced that distain and gave Dylan a way to externalize his resentment.  It's not my fault; it's their fault, and by extension societies fault.

Dylan was not boastful about being caught for a crime and having to do diversion program and he wouldn't mention it at all in school. I think it got leaked months later what happened to them and Eric was more forthcoming with peers than Dylan.   On top of the layer of resentment, was a layer of shame that, combined with his depression, was a poisonous combination.  A normal kid would find the motivation to straighten himself out after such an experience, learn from it and move forward, but instead, Dylan felt marked for life. The diversion program, as a result of the theft, was like being ensnared in quick sand.  It was all or nothing in his mind, the negativity and unexpressed feelings compounding:  No one likes me at school, my parents, who are also zombies, hate me for this and for not having any motivations in life, I've been booked as a criminal at the station, the diversion program is on my case, admonishing me for not getting good grades in school, for missing appointments, I love a girl who doesn't even know how strong I feel for her, and, furthermore, wouldn't want me since I'm now a criminal. What was the point?  Everything was pointless and it was becoming clearer to him that he did not fit into this world..this existence.  He was not embraced by this world instead it felt as though the walls were closing in and pushing him out.  It would be easier to simply go away.

Ack! Sorry for the long-winded response!


Last edited by InFiNiNcEX5 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:14 pm

"Unfortunately... even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence."

I also kind of wonder if he is also encompassing both the theft and NBK into this sentence since he refers to crimes in plural.  Almost nobody would most definitely not condone shooting up your school.  Getting caught would be, unlike the van theft, something that he and Eric anticipated as the cops would be there on the scene at CHS while they would be conducting their criminal activities.  So, Dylan is forewarning "the reason that I'm writing you this now" translates into a sort of 'by the time you get this letter, I will have been caught in the act of my crimes.'  Just know that given that fact, I want to go to a new existence. The essential gist of the letter is letting Her 1) Know that I like/d you (do you know who I am by now?)  2) I wished this could've been this way between us  3)  I am a criminal and by the time you read this, I have been caught for all my crimes against society.  4)  Just know that I have made the decision to leave the earth.  It's my personal choice, no one else's decision  5) Goodbye, and know that I love/d you.


Last edited by InFiNiNcEX5 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:22 pm

Thanks for answer, there is no reason to be sorry. Smile 

I wonder how the girl feeled if she ever got to know it after the massacre. If the cops asked her and told her? We will never know...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lol



Posts : 308
Join date : 2013-07-26

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:08 pm

^
Pretty sure Marla Foust felt like complete crap

And still not over it to this day. I remember awhile ago people contacted her, and she was disgusted and told everyone that what she and the FBI discussed is only between them, and personal
Back to top Go down
View user profile
em81



Posts : 402
Join date : 2013-04-20
Age : 36
Location : Germany

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:13 am

Why did everybody think it was Marla?

I know she stated that Dylan asked her for Prom. And that she fit in the anagram (but there are more girls that fit in)

Back to top Go down
View user profile
MarmaladeSkies



Posts : 77
Join date : 2013-03-24

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:27 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
"Unfortunately... even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence."

I also kind of wonder if he is also encompassing both the theft and NBK into this sentence since he refers to crimes in plural.  Almost nobody would most definitely not condone shooting up your school.  Getting caught would be, unlike the van theft, something that he and Eric anticipated as the cops would be there on the scene at CHS while they would be conducting their criminal activities.  So, Dylan is forewarning "the reason that I'm writing you this now" translates into a sort of 'by the time you get this letter, I will have been caught in the act of my crimes.'  Just know that given that fact, I want to go to a new existence. The essential gist of the letter is letting Her 1) Know that I like/d you (do you know who I am by now?)  2) I wished this could've been this way between us  3)  I am a criminal and by the time you read this, I have been caught for all my crimes against society.  4)  Just know that I have made the decision to leave the earth.  It's my personal choice, no one else's decision  5) Goodbye, and know that I love/d you.
This makes more sense.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:46 pm

Can someone that has Tim Krabbe's book please post Dylan' love poem he pieced together using Marla Foust?

Thanks! :-)
Back to top Go down
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 620
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:23 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
"Unfortunately... even if you did like me even the slightest bit, you would hate me if you knew who I was. I am a criminal, I have done things that almost nobody would even think about condoning. The reason that I'm writing you now is that I have been caught for the crimes I committed, & I want to go to a new existence."

I also kind of wonder if he is also encompassing both the theft and NBK into this sentence since he refers to crimes in plural.
I have a different reading of this line. It is highly speculative, but I want to see what you think.

I think Dylan was considering turning them both in and killing himself. He would send this letter at the same time he turned them in. That is how it reads to me. I think he turned this plan over in his mind a few times.

Two other points: I think the main effect of the van break-in was to destroy Dylan's dialogue with his parents. I am sure they tried to communicate with him, but he didn't feel he belonged at the house anymore. Just Eric after that.

Second point: don't assume that Dylan was actually ashamed of the break-in. Part of his love-suicidal ideation was to imagine himself making his beloved notice him by committing some notorious criminal act. This is a common fantasy. Taxi Driver, if you've seen it, is about this.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sabratha

avatar

Posts : 1100
Join date : 2015-03-31
Location : Central Mazovian Plains

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:02 am

Thread necromancy.

- is for the (-) joy she gives me
- is for how she (-) helpless with her beautiful gaze
- is for the (-) moments she shares with me
- is for the (-) found love that I've been looking for all my life
- is for the (-) of us as a couple
- is how (-) I hope to spend time with her
- is how she is the (-) one I love, that I have ever loved
- is for the (-) where we can look at the stars
- is how (-) beautiful she is
- is her (-) for everything she does

Sabratha's random take on it. Guess after watching a Zodiac movie yesterday, I feel like cracking soem codes:

E is for the (enormous) joy she gives me
L is for how she (leaves me) helpless with her beautiful gaze
Y is for the (yearning) moments she shares with me
S is for the (sacred/sublime) found love that I've been looking for all my life
S is for the (scene) of us as a couple
A is how (anxiously) I hope to spend time with her
M is how she is the (magnificent/marvelous/manifest) one I love, that I have ever loved
O is for the (open spaces/outdoors) where we can look at the stars
S is how (stunningly/supremely) beautiful she is
T is her (taste) for everything she does

Elyssa Most

Marla Foust is the most popular reading making the most sense in most letters. But I don't think we can be certain.

Also the whole "love note to be left in locker thing"... soudns like tis written to a person who barely knows Dylan. Marla seems to have known Dylan rather well, unlike Elyssa. Marla was a TCM member, remember?

Bonus points for Elyssa being a rather odd name like Dylan.

Not saying its certainly Elyssa or certainly not Marla. Just wanted to give an alternative and stress the fact that we can't be sure.

_________________
"Bullet Time" - a school shooting film from Poland
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Falcolus

avatar

Posts : 513
Join date : 2014-09-13
Location : New Zealand

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:18 am

Interesting idea [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I think the theory is totally sound, but I don't think we will ever know the truth.

_________________
*insert Columbine related quote here*
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sabratha

avatar

Posts : 1100
Join date : 2015-03-31
Location : Central Mazovian Plains

PostSubject: Re: Dylan's great love decoded?   Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:55 am

My main gripe with Marla in the context of the poem is these two lines:

A - is for how she (always renders me?) helpless with her beautiful gaze
A- is for the (aspect?) of us as a couple

Both of these lines require an "A" if its about Marla. The first one seems just too long and the second just doesn't seem to click, even if we consider Dylan's weird way of writing.

_________________
"Bullet Time" - a school shooting film from Poland
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Dylan's great love decoded?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» amare means love in latin
» Unintended Love {X closed}
» Love at Midnight
» House of night for breakups,make ups and people falling in love (Started and closed))
» Dr. Love. [x]

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: