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 Eighteen years of Columbine

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LPorter101
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PostSubject: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:27 am

So, here we are, on the first day of March 2017. The eighteenth anniversary of Columbine is seven weeks from tomorrow. Nearly all of those who died on 4/20 have been dead longer than they were alive. (Eric will reach that milestone at the end of next month.) For many if not most if not nearly all of us, it was over half a lifetime ago.

What is left to say? Anything?

I think so. I still see Dave Cullen quoted as the final authority on the massacre, and that still pisses me off. I still have lots of questions that I want to see answered.

I've had a lot going on lately, so I haven't been around, and I haven't been giving much thought to Columbine. But there's something about it that keeps me from forgetting about it completely. There's something about it that gnaws at the back of my mind - something that refuses to let it die. The question - and it is the question, as far as I'm concerned - as to whether Eric and Dylan could have been saved, whether they could have found some reason to live that didn't involve killing others, still haunts me. Even now, at this late date, I would still like to believe that, as late as, oh, 11 o'clock on the morning of the massacre, they could have chosen life over death.

(A few years ago, it really freaked me out when I learned that Adam Lanza had been a member of an earlier incarnation of this board. Looking back, I know that he didn't say anything that would have led anyone on that board to know what he was planning. But it still bugs me that maybe, somehow, someway, one of us might have been able to discover his plans, and keep him from carrying them out. But, most likely, there was nothing that anyone could have done.)

Some of us have been striving to unlock the mysteries posed by the massacre since the day it happened. Others are only now learning about it for the first time. Whatever the case, there's plenty of material to digest.

On this date in 1999, fourteen teenagers and one adult had about seven weeks to live. Only two of them knew it. The rest of them were blissfully unaware that their time on this earth was rapidly drawing to a close - or were they? Did any of them ever have an inkling, a premonition, a flash of insight that something bad was headed their way? (Much has been made of Rachel Scott's poems; make of them what you will.) I don't know, and I never will. But I do know that all of us must never forget that, whenever we do something - anything - it might very well be the last time we ever get to do it.

Lately, I have spent a lot of time thinking about and dealing with endings. Things in my life that I once thought would last forever are going away. Things that used to seem all-important now seem totally irrelevant. I feel empty, but not in a totally bad way.

I wanted certain things out of life; I went after them; I got them - not all of them, but a lot of them; now I wonder why I wanted them so badly. I'm like a man who was starving who stumbled upon an all-you-can-eat buffet and gorged himself until he threw up. I remember being desperately hungry, but the feeling is gone, the need is gone, and (hopefully) it won't be coming back. There are still lots of things that I don't have, things that I need and want, but there are lots of things that I used to think I needed that I don't even want anymore.

It seems that, in life, we get certain itches that we have to scratch. For whatever reason, some of these itches are a lot harder to scratch than others. The ones that are hardest to scratch are the ones that we most need to scratch. If we can't scratch them, then they drive us crazy. But if we can scratch them, and do scratch them, then they go away. Then, after a while, new itches crop up, and we get back on the treadmill.

Something tells me that, for Eric and Dylan, NBK was a scratch that they just had to itch. I don't know how they got the itch, and I doubt that they knew; all they knew was that they had it and that they had to scratch it. And they did. And then it was over - there was nothing left to do but blow their brains out.

In a way, going NBK was kind of like losing their virginity. They had an incredible amount of bloodlust. But they believed that it would be this amazing experience that would totally blow them away, and ... it wasn't. (At the very least, it wasn't everything they were hoping for.) But they did go ahead and get it over with. They killed people, and they got that urge out of their system. Getting over that hurdle, that point of no return, was the hard part.

Their first shots must have been exhilarating, but after a very short while, they must have discovered that death has a certain ... banality to it. It gets old. Fast.

I've never killed people, but I have killed ... cockroaches. (Don't worry - that's where I draw the line.) You stomp on one, and it feels good - you mash that little fucker into the ground, rip it apart, and you feel a sense of triumph. But then you kill another one, and it doesn't feel nearly as good - you don't get the same high. And then you kill another one, and you don't feel anything.

Something tells me that killing the kids at Columbine was kind of like that.

(Please note that I am not comparing the victims to cockroaches. I am simply saying that killing gives you a high, like a drug, and then that high wears off, also like a drug. Obviously, I have never killed, attempted to kill, or even wanted to kill another human being, let alone multiple human beings, so I cannot say whether hunting humans is more satisfying than hunting roaches.)

Eric, in particular, was totally drained by the time he ended his life. He was spent. I suspect that he was too numb to feel too bad about the fact that the bombs didn't go off. But, obviously, we'll never know.

I can sit here and write another 10,000 words about Columbine, and I won't come close to scratching the surface of what might be said about this strange chapter in the annals of American history.

So, instead of rambling on, I'll leave you for now with the following thought:

Nobody knows why anyone does anything. Folks do weird things for weird reasons. Shit happens.

But it's still interesting to talk about. We need to ask questions, even those that might never be answered.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:43 am

To be honest even if I saw the basement tapes I'd still think about Columbine from time to time. For me it's one of those events that even if I knew every little detail, I'd still feel like there was more to learn.

I know there have been worse shootings/mass killings/world changing events both prior and post Columbine but something draws me to Columbine and I don't know why.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:09 am

LPorter101 I completely agree with you and I really understand the comparison you made between killing cockroaches and the killings in Columbine. You're right and I think you described very well what Eric and Dylan could have felt during the shooting.
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PostSubject: reply   Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:32 pm

Yes, 18 years. If you were born when it happened you'd now be the same age as the killers.

No, Dave Cullen isn't the "Final authority," he's just a guy with an opinion and a book. Only if there is a God is there a "final authority" on anything. But you probably knew that.

E & D stated numerous times in their journals, etc. that they figured they'd die during NBK. Eric wanted suicide by cop, right?

To be fair, your observations on the "high" of killing aren't that different from Cullen's anyway (see chapter 52, "Quiet", detailing 11:36 am to 12:08 pm). As we all know they did all their killing in 17 minutes.

There are "answers" to some things in life and then there aren't. I don't think it's quite fair to say that we never know why anyone does anything. Sometimes we don't, sometimes we do.

You could die 20 minutes from now, or 50 years. Something could just randomly fall on your head and you go splat. The kids at Columbine would have had no reason to fear two guys that people mostly didn't pay attention to were going to kill a bunch of people that probably never did anything to them.

GOOD LORD!!!! ADAM LANZA POSTED HERE?!?!?!? I....did not know that!
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
GOOD LORD!!!! ADAM LANZA POSTED HERE?!?!?!?  I....did not know that!
Adam posted on the Super Columbine Massacre RPG forum between 2010 and 2012. It wasn't the same forum you are posting on now because it did not exist back then but several members of this forum posted on that forum before it shut down.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:46 am

My interest in Columbine waxes and wanes. Around the time Sue released her book and was giving many interviews I got back into the research and back here. I found out many things I had not known before and went ahead and finally read the 11k cover to cover.

Lately I have been in a bit of a slump. I do not post as much, do not think about it much. But you are right, we are coming upon 18 years of the massacre and every year around this time my mind returns to it.

I do think however that Eric was saddened by the bombs not going off. Once the initial high wore off he went back down to the commons to try to set the bombs off. He and Dylan seemed to try what they could to get them to go, and they still remained silent. Since that was Eric's big plan from the beginning I think it hit him quite hard that it had failed.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:25 am

It's now the second day of April ... we're eighteen days from the eighteenth anniversary of a day when an 18-year-old and a 17-year-old perpetrated the most-notorious* school massacre in American (even world) history.

When I think about how they must have felt as they counted down to 4/20, this quote comes to mind:

Quote :
Deep in the trenches carved into the floors of the Pacific and the Indian Oceans, there are fish which live and die without ever seeing or sensing the sun. These fabulous creatures cruise the depths like ghostly balloons, lit from within by their own radiance. Although they look delicate, they are actually marvels of biological design, built to withstand pressures that would squash a man as flat as a windowpane in the blink of an eye. Their great strength, however, is also their great weakness. Prisoners of their own alien bodies, they are locked forever in their dark depths. If they are captured and drawn toward the surface, toward the sun, they simply explode. It is not external pressure that destroys them, but its absence.

[...]

Who knows how a fish captured in one of those deep trenches and brought swiftly toward the surface - toward the light of a sun it has never suspected - may feel? Is it not at least possible that its final moments are filled with ecstasy rather than horror? That it senses the crushing reality of all that pressure only as it finally falls away? That it thinks - as far as a fish may be supposed to think, that is - in a kind of joyous frenzy, I am free of that weight at last! in the seconds before it explodes? Probably not.

Whatever satisfaction they got out of NBK came in the days before it happened. They were like kids on Christmas Eve, thinking about all of the wonderful presents they were going to get.

(The massacre itself was like waking up on Christmas morning and finding nothing but boxes full of coal underneath the tree. Total buzzkill.)

Did Eric and Dylan regret their actions as they knelt down to end their lives? We'll never know.

*Not the biggest, not the deadliest, but the most infamous, yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:01 am

Great post, LPorter101 (minus the cockroach stomping admission, - yes, I am that much of a hippy that I would think to myself "who the fuck am I to squash this bug for merely existing") - but that aside, a lot of your musings on life ring true to me. Oh, the joys of aging! (not really being sarcastic with that statement). It reminds me of a quote that I saw the other day, saying something along the lines of "the only consistency in life is change."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It seems that, in life, we get certain itches that we have to scratch. For whatever reason, some of these itches are a lot harder to scratch than others. The ones that are hardest to scratch are the ones that we most need to scratch. If we can't scratch them, then they drive us crazy. But if we can scratch them, and do scratch them, then they go away. Then, after a while, new itches crop up, and we get back on the treadmill.

Something tells me that, for Eric and Dylan, NBK was a scratch that they just had to itch. I don't know how they got the itch, and I doubt that they knew; all they knew was that they had it and that they had to scratch it. And they did. And then it was over - there was nothing left to do but blow their brains out.

In a way, going NBK was kind of like losing their virginity. They had an incredible amount of bloodlust. But they believed that it would be this amazing experience that would totally blow them away, and ... it wasn't. (At the very least, it wasn't everything they were hoping for.) But they did go ahead and get it over with. They killed people, and they got that urge out of their system. Getting over that hurdle, that point of no return, was the hard part.


This part of your post actually reminded me of a post I made last year in the "Songs that remind you of Columbine" thread.


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This song is one I've liked for quite a few years now. I was listening to it just before and a couple of the lines really struck me as to how applicable they are to E&D and the senselessness of their actions on 4/20:




"Dumb and cruel
Cut before it's grown
Lies so forced in bored control
It learned all that it cares to know"

I think those lines sum up the situation so well. Their actions were undoubtedly senseless and cruel. I find the line "cut before it's grown" so sad, as I feel that pertains to E&D's murdered victims, as well as E&D themselves. E&D were still high school kids not far off from graduating with so much time likely ahead of them. So much opportunity for things to change. When you're a teenager, I guess you think you know everything, hence how apt that last line is.

Then I kind of had an epiphany and realised that this entire song could pretty much sum up the helplessness of what inevitably occurred, particularly from the subconscious perspective of E&D:

"Spoiled children soon to fall
Freedom is the lie we live
We will wait for tragedy
And scatter helpless to the fire
Sorry for ourselves
Sorry for the things we've seen
No one cries for help
Waiting for the fire"

For whatever reasons, they felt compelled to do the horrid things they did. They pitied themselves for living in a society where they believed they were outcasts. They didn't push to seek external help regarding their feelings. Instead, they kept them hidden from the pre-4/20 world and waited for their final day.

"When all our toys are burning
All these empty urges must be satisfied
Acted outside
Precious strength to turn the game to history
Giving up, I'm blown away
He said all I had to say
The final days have come and gone
Safe inside; there's nothing wrong
Nothing in these words
Sorry force of habit
Could it be way over my head?
Helpless to describe it"

When it was their final day, they carried out their desire to senselessly kill and seriously hurt people who had never even so much as known them. "Sorry force of habit" again, for whatever reasons, they felt compelled to do what they did. I reiterate that they had their lives ahead of them, but they were way in over their heads and didn't know how to deal with their emotions in a rational way. As I recently mentioned in another thread, I often wonder what E&D's thoughts of their actions would be if they could've had time to grow, mature, gain more life experience and have been able to fully grasp the gravity of the lingering pain they caused for so many people, including their own families.

Anyway, I really have no idea if things could've panned out drastically different for Dylan and Eric. One of the most interesting posts I've seen on this forum was one I read the other day from a member who recently sold some Columbine memorobillia and was actually aquainted with Eric at one point. It's no surprise Eric had an obsession with violence, but for some reason her comments just really drove that fact home for me. All the jokes he made to her and others about shooting people who annoyed him for the most trivial things etc. It did make me wonder if Eric was always doomed (pun unintentional). I re-watched the Eric in Columbine video again the other night. Again, his strange behaviour and mannerisms all throughout the video just seem so odd to me, like he's not the full deck of cards. Dylan is more of a mystery to me, but part of me is inclined to go with the popular opinion that he probably would've benefited the most from some type of intervention if one could've been held. Again, though, none of us will ever know.

The thing that keeps me drawn to Columbine all these years later is more personal. I had only just turned nine when the massacre occurred. I had managed to live a pretty sheltered life as a kid, but when I overheard the details unfolding on the radio that day I knew (as cliché as this sounds) that I had been robbed of some innocence. The fact that two angry boys could just walk into a place that's meant to be a safe haven to learn in and violently kill other kids shocked me. I was even more surprised to see how normal those two boys looked when I happened to catch a glance of them smiling at me from TIME magazine's "The Monsters Next Door"cover that my parents had left on the dining table. Now that the years have progressed, I think about the victims quite a bit. Just today, actually, I was listening to a sad, acoustic cover of a song I like and it made me envision John Tomlin's smiling face and how he held hands under the library table with Nicole Nowlen who ended up surviving the massacre. Isaiah pops into my mind a lot. All of them do, actually. Even Eric and Dylan (although I don't think of either of them with any fondness). I guess when an event has been of personal interest to you for such a long time, especially from an early age, it's something that just sort of stays with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:33 am

Indeed right, it's April. Soon to be the 18th Anniversary of Columbine. On my birthday Eric would be longer dead than alive if I am not wrong. I love the month of April to be honest.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:14 am

Columbine was a perfect storm of tragedy and media circus. We will never see something like it again. Sure there were other mass shootings before, but not by teenagers, and at this scale.

But in the time between then and now, the world has gotten harder to shock. The two killers are still posterchildren for something or another.
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:56 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I guess when an event has been of personal interest to you for such a long time, especially from an early age, it's something that just sort of stays with you.

This. I know I've said it to death on the forum but nostalgia is what got me back into columbine. There's something about the time period it happened in and the fact that things have changed so much since then (and sometimes it doesn't feel like it was so long ago yet it also feels like another lifetime). I was also in high school when it happened and can relate to the people involved, and I think that's a big part of the reason why it stuck with me like it has. I got back into it by accident after over a decade of hardly thinking about it at all, and researching it and learning more about the shooters surprisingly made me remember things about myself and my own life from back then that I had long forgotten about.

I've been on this forum for almost a year, and I kinda credit being here as why I haven't lost all interest yet. Every now and then someone finds some new info or offers a different perspective which keeps things interesting. I'll admit I'm not as into it now as I was a year ago (life happens) but it's still on my mind more than I ever expected it to be
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:15 am

I do not remember how it was when it happened. I was a bit too young. But people talked incessently about it years afterward, and the imagery was so striking.
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:13 am

In three days, it will have been eighteen years since that fateful day in April. And in thirteen days, Eric will have been dead longer than he was alive.

Why do I keep coming back to that second milestone? I don't know. Maybe because it underscores how long it's been. To me, 4/20 feels like yesterday, but for even the oldest kids now at Columbine, it's literally a lifetime ago. It's weird to think that there are folks nearing adulthood who weren't even alive when NBK happened.

Eighteen years since Columbine ... ten years since Virginia Tech ... four-and-a-half years since Sandy Hook. (We'll mark the fifth anniversary of that ghastly tragedy this year, eleven days before Christmas.)

Time flies, doesn't it?

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:38 am

Feels like only yesterday that I was remembering the tenth anniversary in 2009. That feels more surreal than the eighteen years since the actual tragedy. Shortly after the tenth I had bought a whole heap of Columbine related books from Amazon and read through them all in the span of a week (Cullen and Kass' books, She Said Yes, Rachel's Tears). Honestly it feels like yesterday still, from that tenth anniversary.
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:56 am

I was in kindergarten when it happened. I never heard anything about it until like 9th or 10th grade. Then once I got out of college I got sucked into it all. I don't know what it is about it and I probably never will, but it's always the first thing I think of when I hear about a shooting. Granted VT and Sandy Hook were far worse in body count, Columbine's become the "standard" and staple in school/mass shootings. Honestly it'll never go away. Years from now we could have schools being blown up and death counts in the hundreds, but Columbine will always be referenced.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:17 pm

As I write this, it is 8:09 p.m. Mountain* time on the 19th.

This time of year, the sun sets in Denver around quarter to eight.

So, by this time on this day eighteen years ago, fourteen kids and one adult had already seen their last sunset.

How many of those who were soon to die slept well on the last night of their lives? How many tossed and turned? How many had sweet dreams? How many had nightmares?

Eric quoted Hamlet on the basement tapes ... here's another quote from Hamlet:

"To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil, must give us pause." - William Shakespeare

"Hopefully, death is like being in a dream state." - Eric Harris

Eric and Dylan went to sleep - if, indeed, they did get any sleep - with dreams of obliterating their school, and a good many of their fellow students. Their apocalyptic vision was never fulfilled.

Did they wonder what dreams they'd have in their death-slumber?

It is now 8:14. We are now five minutes nearer to the end of our lives, and of everything.

Did Eric and Dylan count the minutes and the seconds leading up to their attack? Did they think about it every hour - "Twelve hours until the bombs go off! Eleven hours! Ten hours!" (Who knows?)

It's now 8:17. At this very moment eighteen years ago, they believed that their victims had exactly 15 hours to live.

If someone told you right now that you had only 15 hours to live, what would you do?

*I'm in the Eastern time zone, so it's two hours later for me.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:47 pm

Jessica Miklich (Mark Manes' girlfriend), Page 008178:

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Page 008241:

[April 15 1999] Harris called Manes' house from his house and asked Manes to purchase some ammunition for his 9mm. Manes stated that be would and would call him back that evening.

Manes forgets about the ammunition purchase and Harris calls back on Monday, April 19". Manes forgets again and at approximately 8:00p.m. he is called by Harris. Manes feel bad he has not purchased it for him and decides to go immediately to purchase the 9mm ammunition. Manes states that Harris wanted 2 boxes of 9mm ammunition. Manes goes to K-Mart near his house and purchases 2 boxes of 9mm ammunition for Harris and 1 box of .45 caliber ammunition for himself. Manes states that he pays with his debit card and on the way home he calls Harris to meet him at Manes' house to pickup the ammunition.

Manes states that he waited in the driveway of his residence until Harris shows up. Harris pays Manes $25.00 for the 2 boxes at ammunition and they talk. Harris talks about the Marines and they discuss this for awhile. Manes asks Harris if he was going shooting tonight and Harris says maybe tomorrow.


Pages 008189-008190:

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Matthew Paul Jackson, Page 010154:

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:56 pm

Nicholas Romanyshyn, Page 004230:

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:12 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:44 pm

On this 18th Anniversary,my only thought is to wish all 15 who died and the loved ones left behind peace.
Even though it has now been 18 years since the ones left behind have been with their loved ones but even though the sadness and loss will always remain ,I hope they can find peace in their precious memories and the love they will forever have for the one they lost.

These 15 special lives will never be forgotten.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:36 am

Quote :
Good Morning America‏Verified account @GMA  5m5 minutes ago

We remember and honor those lost and injured in the Columbine massacre, which took place 18 years ago today...

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Well, if the media is still obsessed with Columbine, who can blame us?
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:39 am

LPorter101 - Sorry to ask such a frivolous question on such a serious topic, but do you know what exactly Eric quoted from Hamlet? I'm an extreme english lit nerd so! Thank you very much1

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:23 am

crazy that its 18 years ago today. This day always draws me back.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:02 pm

As far as I know, Eric only quoted a reference from The Tempest:

“Good wombs have born bad sons.” Eric wrote this in his school planner on the day marked “Mother’s Day” & stated it in one of the Basement Tapes.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Here is a reference to The Tempest in one of Eric's school assignments:

026741-026742 Guilty by Gravity Kills re: The Tempest by Eric

We chose the song "Guilty" by Gravity Kills to relate to the play The Tempest. This song can be related to the entire play in several ways with many characters. We also chose this song because it represents our personal views and ideas on some of the themes and scenes in the play.

The Tempest is a tragic comedy by William Shakespeare. It is the story of a warlock Prospero that was banished from his home onto an island with only his daughter, a native, and a spirit of the island to keep him company. Eventually, those who wronged him were brought to the island by a magical storm that stranded them there. As the story unfolded, Prospero got his revenge/justice on the ones who wronged him and made peace with all.

Certain lines in the song relate to characters in the play. Miranda and Prospero are two examples.

"I’ll tell you something, something new, you're hearing nothing, nothing true" relates to when Prospero is telling his daughter, Miranda, about society and people. This shows the relationship between Prospero and his daughter is like teacher and pupil. Whatever Prospero tells Miranda is considered by her to be true and valid. This shows that Miranda is very naive, pure, and untouched by society.

"You're killing me, I’m killing you, and I’m guilty too” can be related to Prospero and Alonso. Their relationship is one that is based on the "eye for an eye" principle in that Alonso banished Prospero to the island and, in revenge, Prospero made Alonso believe that his son was dead. In the end they both feel guilty for what they have done.

'"1-2-3, I found you out so easily, 1-2-3, I found in you what I found in me'' can be related to Prospero's experiences with Trinculo and Stephano. Trinculo and Stephano had a plot to take over the island. However, it was easily discovered by Prospero. Prospero believed that they were evil and then plotted against them with an equally heinous plan.

''The time is wrong, the time is right - be careful who you kill tonight, and I’m melting, and I'm melting, and I'm melting, and I'm melting, and I'm melting in you" this line relates both to Trinculo and Stephano and their plot against Prospero and to Prospero himself. Trinculo and Stephano were plotting to kill Prospero, but they needed to "be careful" since he was watching. Prospero could have been considered "melting" at the end of the story since his power was diminishing and he was completing his vengeance and justice missions.

"1 and 1 and 1 makes 3, 1 and 1 why don't you see,” can be associated with all of the magic used in the play. Like the tempest at the beginning of the story, things were not always as they appeared to be.

"I'm killing you, you're killing me, can't you set me free,'' can be related to all of the conflicts in the play and the desire to resolve them. An example of this can be seen when Prospero wants to be on good terms with Alonso at the end of the play.

''Inside out I can't describe it, what you do to me, inside out, I cannot hide it looking right through me" can be associated with Ferdinand’s love for Miranda. They are obviously in love, and are hiding nothing from each other.

"Now I've reached the living end, pointing fingers to defend'' This can be associated with the scene in which Antonio and Sebastian were about to kill Alonso while he slept. Alonso awoke and the two made up a quick excuse that they heard a noise and that is why their swords were drawn.

The song, "Guilty" represents the play, The Tempest, in numerous ways. It also portrays our personal views on themes, scenes, and conflicts that occurred in the play.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:36 pm

Only minutes to go until they started their rampage 18 years ago...
I want to know so badly what Eric and Dylan were thinking exactly 18 years ago. Their last hours on earth...
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:27 pm

I was just reading one of the most recent articles and -

Quote :
Harris and Klebold, for instance, were widely reported to be social outcasts after the massacre, part of goth or “trenchcoat” groups at Columbine. But according to Cullen’s reports, this was eventually shown to be a false narrative — neither boy was high school royalty, but both had circles of friends, and Harris was known to be a bit of a ladies’ man.


Oh my godddd I can't

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
As far as I know, Eric only quoted a reference from The Tempest:

“Good wombs have born bad sons.” Eric wrote this in his school planner on the day marked “Mother’s Day” & stated it in one of the Basement Tapes.

Yes, that is my error.

It is now 11:38 a.m. Mountain time. Eric and Dylan were still alive; so many others were not. Dave Sanders was slowly bleeding to death.

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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
crazy that its 18 years ago today. This day always draws me back.

When do you remember first hearing about it? I think I was about 10 when I was first aware.

Some teenage camp counselors were still making jokes about the "Trench Coat Mafia" around the year 2003, but I didn't know what they referred to then. Maybe I was familiar with "Columbine", though.
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PostSubject: Re: Eighteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:25 pm

Cool

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