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 What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?

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Therewereonlyvictims



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PostSubject: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:22 pm

What if some hero snuck up from behind and disarmed Eric and took him to the ground and then Dylan, completely rattled, got bumrushed and also taken to the ground? Do you think because of all the fear and anger they caused that the students would have killed them or would they have just given them a serious beatdown like how the Thurston shooter got turned into a punching bag?

How would the shooters would have responded if they'd been restrained and taken into custody? I feel that Eric would have had a complete breakdown because he was clearly deathly afraid of being taken alive.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:11 pm

They were never in a crowded area, so they probably wouldn't have been mobbed.

They both would have had meltdowns if they were in custody. That wasn't part of the plan at all.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:59 am

If they couldn't use their guns or bombs I think they would try to use their knives.

Probably the reason they had knives was that, if all else failed, they could use them.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:38 pm

It's possible someone could have taken them down... In a "what if" scenario a couple guys could have attacked them and knocked them out with a chair or something.

It would have been great for us if Eric and Dylan were attacked and woke up in custody lol
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:56 pm

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Do you mean someone like Evan Todd? Since he was a big ole jock and he was a "bully" and all. Do you mean if he would have did something like jump out of his hiding spot and tackle Dylan to the ground?

That would have been great but unfortunately that didn't happen and Evan just ended up being another victim who probably had flashbacks for years of having a gun shoved in his face and had his life threatened.

I imagine if someone could have actually subdued the killers, they would have been arrested and we wouldn't be sitting here years later with all these questions.

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Therewereonlyvictims



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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:48 pm

I mean how do you think they would have reacted if they were taken into custody?


Shaky eyes and uncontrollable screaming? Begging for the cops to kill them like Kip Kinkel?
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:53 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I mean how do you think they would have reacted if they were taken into custody?


Shaky eyes and uncontrollable screaming? Begging for the cops to kill them like Kip Kinkel?

Eric would have thrown Dylan under the bus like he did after the van break-in.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I mean how do you think they would have reacted if they were taken into custody?


Shaky eyes and uncontrollable screaming? Begging for the cops to kill them like Kip Kinkel?

Eric would have thrown Dylan under the bus like he did after the van break-in.

Not at this point. They had already recorded a video confession.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I mean how do you think they would have reacted if they were taken into custody?


Shaky eyes and uncontrollable screaming? Begging for the cops to kill them like Kip Kinkel?

Eric would have thrown Dylan under the bus like he did after the van break-in.
Or Dylan would have thrown Eric under the bus like he did when he "gave Brooks" Eric's website, right?

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:52 pm

After reading Susan Klebold’s book, I often wondered what would happen had Eric and Dylan not killed themselves and instead were caught and went to prison. I agree with the earlier post that I don’t believe they could have handled prison. But I wonder about the parents. Eric’s parents have stated that they know he was a psychopath. Would that keep them from visiting him in prison and turning their back on him? I feel Dylan’s parents would be more sympathetic to his situation with the whole depression issue but I don’t think Dylan would want anything to do with his family, at least not at first.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:50 pm

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Or Dylan would have thrown Eric under the bus like he did when he "gave Brooks" Eric's website, right?

How can you be so sure that Dylan was trying to warn Brooks out of goodwill? Maybe he was meant to deliver the address of Eric’s website, because Eric told him so, in order to make Brooks feel intimidated? I mean, what would be the point of making online threats if Brooks never got to see them?

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What if some hero snuck up from behind and disarmed Eric and took him to the ground and then Dylan, completely rattled, got bumrushed and also taken to the ground? Do you think because of all the fear and anger they caused that the students would have killed them or would they have just given them a serious beatdown like how the Thurston shooter got turned into a punching bag?

columbine wa sthe first such event, people weren't entirely ready. They heard about Kip Kinkels etc, but this sort of cold-blooded high deathcount sprees started with E&D.

As such, I think other students would just take away the guns and keep them restrained and then hand them over to Police.

Nowadays people would be far less "compassionate". Now people know what E&D or Cho or Adam Lanza did, they grew to expect the worst in a shooting taking place at school.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:44 am

If one was subdued, the other would kill the subduer.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:51 am

It could've been possible. One person could take down one of them and encourage others to take down the other. They'd probably be more successful if the person stabbed one of them with a pencil like what apparently happened to Jeff Weise.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:00 am

I don't think it would have been very successful. I don't think either of the boys separated from each other, so someone trying to take one of them down would just get shot by the other.

If anything, I think it would have made them more angry and probably would have shot more people than they did, and for longer. They came down from their rampage rush, which is probably why they just wandered around for a bit near the end. I think that if someone tried to take them down, it would have renewed their desire to destroy.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:03 am

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I don't think either of the boys separated from each other
That just makes tackling them easier. They're both close to each other. One might fall from getting tackled and fall onto the other.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:10 am

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That just makes tackling them easier. They're both close to each other. One might fall from getting tackled and fall onto the other.

I could see that if they were walking hand-in-hand, but by them not separating, I meant never being too far from the other as they do their own thing. It could've worked out though, they probably weren't the best at close-quarters combat.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:15 am

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That just makes tackling them easier. They're both close to each other. One might fall from getting tackled and fall onto the other.

I could see that if they were walking hand-in-hand, but by them not separating, I meant never being too far from the other as they do their own thing. It could've worked out though, they probably weren't the best at close-quarters combat.
Oh ok, I thought you meant they were right next to each other or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:50 am

I've always thought they were actively guarding against stuff like that. Especially Eric. They were communicating a lot and they had that hand signal list. Even in their movies they sort of play in that tactical operation style and I think Eric was probably in that mode for real on that day.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:41 am

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I've always thought they were actively guarding against stuff like that. Especially Eric. They were communicating a lot and they had that hand signal list. Even in their movies they sort of play in that tactical operation style and I think Eric was probably in that mode for real on that day.

I can totally see this. There was a point in the library where Eric shot a kid (I think it was Daniel Mauser) who possibly tried to push a chair in Eric's direction, and he shot him twice. Dylan asked, "Did he try to jump you?" and Eric replied with, "Yeah."

So I think they would definitely be on-guard for something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:58 am

I agree that Eric went into NBK with a Military mind set. He was on a mission, playing out a role if you will. While Dylan was just a loose cannon.

Ultimately you had a bunch of kids hiding under tables, hoping they weren't going to die. I seriously doubt any of them were thinking about jumping or trying to subdue E&D. They were likely hoping they would be invisible and would be overlooked. I am certain none wanted to draw attention to themselves.

The Daniel Mauser chair scenario could have played out several ways. Maybe Daniel was so scared that he pushed the chair on accident. It's not like he got up and tried to hit or even throw the chair at Eric. Or he may have actually thought the chair being pushed out would distract Eric?

Also Eric might have perceived the chair push as an attempt of jumping him. So he killed him and answered yes when Dylan asked if he had tried to jump him. No one really knows what happened.

Either way you had a bunch of scared kids at the mercy of two shooters. If someone had tried to attack Eric or Dylan they would have been shot.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:17 am

Didn't they reload more than once in the library? They could have been easily taken out while reloading had someone had the willingness to try. Most of them died because they didn't try to do anything.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:24 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Or Dylan would have thrown Eric under the bus like he did when he "gave Brooks" Eric's website, right?

How can you be so sure that Dylan was trying to warn Brooks out of goodwill? Maybe he was meant to deliver the address of Eric’s website, because Eric told him so, in order to make Brooks feel intimidated? I mean, what would be the point of making online threats if Brooks never got to see them?

Jenn is poking a bit at lasttrain because it is myth that Dylan gave Brooks the website. Brooks and the Browns like to present it that way but in reality it was Brooks' brother Aaron who found Eric's website and brought it to the cops. Dylan never did that.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:27 am

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Didn't they reload more than once in the library?  They could have been easily taken out while reloading had someone had the willingness to try.  Most of them died because they didn't try to do anything.  

Yes. They both plopped their bags down on the top of a table and were reloading. But iirc, Eric had Dylan "watching" his back while he was reloading and vice versa. Not to say though that they couldn't have been bumrushed.

I think they were both already a bit off because the plan had not worked. I think had a bunch of people tried to stop them they could have easily been taken down. This would have to be a bunch of people and possibly some could have gotten stabbed while trying...

It is just hard because the only time I can think of that this could have happened was in the library and as we know everyone in there was a child. (besides Patti) And expecting kids even at the age of 16 to be able to think that quickly and coordinate isn't reality.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Didn't they reload more than once in the library?  They could have been easily taken out while reloading had someone had the willingness to try.  Most of them died because they didn't try to do anything.  

Yes they did reload in the library, but they had a bunch of scared kids who had never been faced with anything like that before. They were likely petrified.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:10 pm

Dylan is a good foot and a half taller than I am. 2 guys who have 2 guns AND bombs. I couldn't fathom trying to jump them.

I think if someone tried to jump them they'd get shot and that's that. It seemed like the only thing to do was try to talk to them on some level. If you treated them like a human being, even Dylan who snapped his tether at that point.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It seemed like the only thing to do was try to talk to them on some level.  
I don't think anyone would've been able to successfully talk them out of it. The only way that the people there might've been able to get out was to run out of the library and not look back, which was obviously extremely risky so no one tried it.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 pm

The only real threat would have been the tec-9, the other weapons were long enough to grab from them, or at least redirect while you beat the crap out of them with the other fist. Maybe the community and environment had an effect as well.

If that happened in my high school in a farming community and they did the exact same thing they would have been killed in the library by the students, not by suicide. Everyone in my school was familiar with guns (except for the very few city folk who knew squat) and the first reload they would have been dead, if not sooner. No ones gonna point a gun at me at close range without me grabbing it. The tec-9 you just grab the slide and push back and it becomes useless and shotguns you just grab and pull and push until they lose their grip.

I think ignorance of guns played a big part, heck most people didn't even know what the guns were.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:35 pm

John Savage was the only one to actually talk to E&D, mainly Dylan on any sort of personal level that day. He was let go. Maybe it was because E&D knew him and had no problem with him. Or maybe it was the fact that he was calm and not screaming at them. Either way Dylan told him to run, maybe when eye to eye with someone who he knew who asked "Are you going to kill me?" Dylan just couldn't do it.

We will never know why Eric and Dylan really let him leave. Maybe they wanted to let him out to tell the story, or maybe they just didn't want to kill him because he was someone like them. As John was not in with the popular crowd, and ran in Eric and Dylan's circles.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think would have happened if someone restrained them?   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The only real threat would have been the tec-9, the other weapons were long enough to grab from them, or at least redirect while you beat the crap out of them with the other fist.  Maybe the community and environment had an effect as well.

If that happened in my high school in a farming community and they did the exact same thing they would have been killed in the library by the students, not by suicide.  Everyone in my school was familiar with guns (except for the very few city folk who knew squat) and the first reload they would have been dead, if not sooner.  No ones gonna point a gun at me at close range without me grabbing it.  The tec-9 you just grab the slide and push back and it becomes useless and shotguns you just grab and pull and push until they lose their grip.

I think ignorance of guns played a big part, heck most people didn't even know what the guns were.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I have been around guns all my life, I have a very healthy respect for them. I would like to assume I would know how to react if I was ever in that situation, but truthfully you will never know until it happens.

If there was only one shooter then it would be easy to say "Why didn't they just tackle him", "They could have overpowered him", etc. But there was two. An attack on one would have been stopped by the other.

Also these kids were scattered out hiding under tables in a room filled with smoke from pipe bombs, and loud fire alarms. So its not like they could have came together and formed a plan on how to best take down E&D. At that given moment their fight or flight sense was turned into hide or die

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