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 Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...

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sororityalpha
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PostSubject: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:16 am

There has been speculation that it was supposed to happen on 4/19/1999.


March 12 2000
Facts clarify but can't justify killers' acts
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FACT: The teens actually planned their attack for Monday, April 19, although investigators don't know why. It didn't happen that day because "maybe they just weren't ready," Battan said. The two bought more ammunition from a friend, Mark Manes, the night of April 19. "I think it was nearing the end of the school year," she said. "They certainly had to do it before school ended. Otherwise, what's the point?"

Demonic plan was months in making
Teens' journals show hatred that exploded in Columbine killings
May 16 2000
They never revealed why they chose April 20, the investigators wrote. There were hints that they had planned the shootings for April 19.


Eric/Dylan said in the basement tapes that they weren't sure whether to do it before or after prom.


Eric referenced the Oklahoma City Bombing in the NBK document which happened on 4/19 (page 026856).


Eric called Mark Manes on April 15th to get him some more ammunition and had to call to remind him again on 4/19 (page 008241). Was that delay part of the reason for it being on 4/20?


What other evidence is there that it was supposed to be on 4/19?

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:49 am

Dylan and Eric turned the video camera on to start recording. The date on the tape says "April 11, 1999". Eric says something along the lines of "Come Monday, I'm going to be one tired motherfucker and then boom, I'll get shot and die". He implies this is going to happen on Monday.

Eric also says that there is 7 and 1/3 days left. Assuming that it is the 11th and that day is already two thirds over, if you add 7 more full days to that it brings you to midnight on April 19, 1999.

And according to the Basement Tape transcripts, Eric mentioning being tired on Monday and that there were 7 days left all happened on April 11th.

Personally, I think it was meant to be the 19th and last minute things came up and they pushed it back a day.

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:00 am

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Eric also at one point say that he hoped the rain would clear up by tuesday for his bombs? Implying Tuesday?

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Eric also at one point say that he hoped the rain would clear up by tuesday for his bombs?  Implying Tuesday?
Yes but that was later on. That's why I say I think their original plan was for the 19th. When Eric mentioned wanting the snow to clear up by Tuesday, that was on Friday, April 16th which is the night Eric showed up at Dylan's house with the duffel bag that Dylan's Mom thought had a computer in it.

This was the night that Dylan tried on his outfit and he complained how he looked fat. They also complained about how ridiculous it was that they had to write poems in class that day. Dylan was saying how he didn't wanna go to the prom and then Eric made the comment about the snow being gone by Tuesday.

So I think their original plan was for the 19th but then something came up and they pushed it back a day. But on April 11th, I think they were still intending to do it on the 19th because Eric made 2 references while filming that implied it would be the 19th.


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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:53 pm

Thomas Clagett Page 002720:

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:53 pm

Weren't they debating if they should do it before or after prom? I think in the long run they both decided 4/20 would be the perfect day even though there were reports that they didn't do it on the 19th because a lot of students were absent because of prom weekend
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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:38 pm

Assuming that they did originally plan for the 19th, do you think it's possible that Eric would have picked the date because it was the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing or was it more likely that it was a coincidence? He did reference it more than once and he intended for his own attack to be a bombing, as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:45 pm

The testimony of Mark Manes might tell us something here (15047).

Manes says Eric called him on Thursday with a request to buy ammo. That by itself doesn't tell us anything one way or the other about a 4/19 or 4/20 plan.

However, Eric next called him on 4/19 at 8 PM. He did not make contact with Manes on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. That suggests that as early as the weekend they may have been leaning toward a 4/20 plan, since otherwise I would have expected Eric to call Mark Manes on Saturday or Sunday.



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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:50 pm

One thing I would like to see are Eric's outgoing call logs. Did he call Mark Manes on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday?

If he did and could not reach him, that might suggest that ammo was the reason they delayed. They had 700 rounds, and Eric could have bought more himself. But apparently they thought they needed more.
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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:09 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They had 700 rounds

They did? How do you know that? Do you have a source for that please?



The evidence after the shooting was:

12 x 10 round magazines for the Hi-Point Carbine = 120 rounds max.

50, 2x36, 24 round magazines for the Tec-DC9M = 146 rounds max.

Together that would equal 266 rounds maximum of 9mm bullets loaded that day.



Also, Item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Black Nylon Bag with 2 Boxes of 9mm Ammunition. (This may have been the 100 rounds, 50 in each box) that Manes bought for Eric on the night of April 19 1999.

If that was the case, we can add 100 rounds to the previous total of 266 loaded rounds which would equal 366 9mm rounds total they had that day.

The black nylon bag was found in the parking lot between Dylan's and Eric's car:

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Here is a reference to Manes' purchase of the ammunition on April 19 1999:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Jessica Miklich (Mark Manes' girlfriend), Page 008178:

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Page 008241:

[April 15 1999] Harris called Manes' house from his house and asked Manes to purchase some ammunition for his 9mm. Manes stated that be would and would call him back that evening.

Manes forgets about the ammunition purchase and Harris calls back on Monday, April 19". Manes forgets again and at approximately 8:00p.m. he is called by Harris. Manes feel bad he has not purchased it for him and decides to go immediately to purchase the 9mm ammunition. Manes states that Harris wanted 2 boxes of 9mm ammunition. Manes goes to K-Mart near his house and purchases 2 boxes of 9mm ammunition for Harris and 1 box of .45 caliber ammunition for himself. Manes states that he pays with his debit card and on the way home he calls Harris to meet him at Manes' house to pickup the ammunition.

Manes states that he waited in the driveway of his residence until Harris shows up. Harris pays Manes $25.00 for the 2 boxes at ammunition and they talk. Harris talks about the Marines and they discuss this for awhile. Manes asks Harris if he was going shooting tonight and Harris says maybe tomorrow.

Pages 008189-008190:

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The shotgun ammunition was a lot less than the above 9mm ammunition total.

Dylan had 21 Live Shotgun Shells total (excluding the bandolier which was not included in evidence) in the pouches he was wearing (Item 1101,1102, 1273).

Dylan fired 12 shotgun shells from his shotgun.

Eric had 22 Live Shotgun Shells total in the pouches he was wearing (Item 1066,1067,1098,1099).

Eric fired 25 shotgun shells from his shotgun.

So, 33 for Dylan + 47 for Eric = 80 Shotgun Shells total.



There were 40 Live Rounds (35 9mm + 5 Shotgun) found in the school as well. (Add this to the total if we attribute these to Eric/Dylan).



366 9mm Bullets (including the 100 rounds in 2 boxes of ammunition found in parking lot) + 80 Shotgun Shells + (40 Live Rounds) = 486 Total Rounds Ammunition.

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 pm

I am referring to the figures above Eric's bomb production schedule in his chart of bombs and ammo from his journal (26023).

I am assuming the figures in the upper right-hand corner are a list of ammo available for the four guns minus rounds fired in target practice. I get 687. Perhaps they had used up 200 hundreds in between this count and 4/20.

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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Thomas Clagett Page 002720:

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interesting find, I've never seen that reference... anyone else quoted as recognizing that?
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PostSubject: Re: Was 4/20 supposed to be 4/19? The Evidence Trail...   Yesterday at 7:10 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Assuming that they did originally plan for the 19th, do you think it's possible that Eric would have picked the date because it was the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing or was it more likely that it was a coincidence? He did reference it more than once and he intended for his own attack to be a bombing, as well.

Yeah, its not as if they had any "ironclad" dtate that must be kept. Obviously they wanted to do it before School ends.

There were 3 factors that imho had an impact on the date:

1. Explosives preparations. These took a lot of work and Eric had to make sure his parents didn't spot them doing it. I remember someone (can't recall who, but I think it was Morris or Dykeman) said that in the final weeks of his life Eric "stopped going out and became a bat and basically lived in his parent's garage"

2. Ammo, they were buying it up till the very last day.

3. Eric wanted a day without rain (or at least without heavy rain), as he believed this will hinder the big fire he was expecting to brake out in CHS.

I think by the time the Prom came around, they were certain the attack would take place in the week between 19th (Monday) and 23rd (Friday), but I don't think a delay of one or two days made a big difference for them.

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