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 What really separates you from the copycats?

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limpfisch



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PostSubject: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:02 am

Many have been arrested before it could happen, many have actually done it.
You are quick to judge them, you are quick to ridicule them, but how are you much different? Is it more than just actions that separate you and them?
Of course you tell yourself that you are simply interested in the massacre from a psychological perspective. But this massacre is done, it's been researched to death, there is nothing new to learn about it or to come of it, it's 18 years old for God's sake, and you keep coming back because you are "interested for psychological reasons"?. Give me a break.
You are an admirer, you are a follower, you just haven't slipped through the filtering system to commit mass murder.
So don't look down upon them, be grateful for whatever it is you have in your life that has kept you on this side of the filter.
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silentprocess

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:42 pm

lol Smile, interesting post. Strangely I somewhat agree. I've always been interested in how serial killers and mass murderers think, what makes them different than me. Serial killers of course for the most part are a way different breed than mass murderers.

Mass murderers I do understand, I think just like them, I just haven't been broken by society. Some people adjust, learn to become cowed by society and what it says you have to be and some never do and it just festers inside of them until one day they break. I haven't broke but I do realize that I'm only doing what I do (work, sleep, eat, work, sleep, eat) because that's what society has told me I am supposed to do, my inner being knows that this isn't true and I'm extremely unhappy with life. Someday I may just leave society and live life as it's supposed to be, or just end it, whichever is most appropriate.

So yeah I can relate quite a bit and I graduated in '96 so Columbine happened when I was younger and still angst filled. I was bullied quite a bit and never really fit in any particular group, was a loner. So yeah I get it. Eric and Dylan lashed out at society and society noticed but did not change. Bullying is still rampant and some aren't equipped to handle it and will retaliate, I don't blame them.

To be honest at the risk of being ostracized or mocked. I think a lot of mass murderers just see the world for what it really is, sure some are a bit off, but their general gist is correct. Elliot Rodger was right in some ways, a lot of women do gravitate to "Jock" type guys or assholes in general, I've seen it all my life, do I hate women, nah, but I see his point of view. Add extreme anxiety and a anti-social disorder and there you go. Dylan and Eric were right, society is brutal, you don't fit into what everyone wants you to be your the bad guy. People suck and most are selfish and will use you until there's nothing left. No one listens, no one listened to Eric and Dylan. All it would take was someone to really talk to them and to get to know them but that's too much work. Their own parents didn't even take the time to know their children, to busy running around doing what society demands of them.

I don't see the world the way most people do, I see it as broken and brutal. That's why this interests me mostly is because they saw the world for what it was too.

Smile But don't worry people, I keep doing my job and keep paying bills and feeding my dogs, little busy bee in the hive of naivety.

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limpfisch



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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:16 pm

Brilliant response; thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:06 pm

This is an interesting post. Especially considering Lanza was on the old forum and now that EGSAndrew guy that was on here (I can't recall his real name).

I can relate as many of their emotional issues also applied and apply to me. Depression, social anxiety, mental instability at times....

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:54 am

nothing. nothing at all. uhh... don't misinterpret that...

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:38 am

It is perfectly possible to have an interest in the Columbine tragedy for reasons that have nothing to do with admiring Errogant and Dyldo. There's the historical perspective and how we got from 1999 to now. There's the eerie haunting effect of the numerous artifacts surrounding the case. There's the interest in why Eric and Dylan snapped and others didn't.

You are partially correct, of course--It is true that I am in no position to fault people for being haunted for the rest of their lives by their own high school bullying, which surely describes lots of the posters here--I myself am still angry about things that happened when I was 11. And the case HAS been researched to death. Posts here have slowed to a trickle for probably precisely that reason. But I *can* look down on what Eryan and Dyl-dyl did, because I never flipped out and decided to blow away people I didn't even know because of my lame redneck dump of a high school. If you don't actually commit a crime, you are better than someone who did.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Errogant and Dyldo

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eryan and Dyl-dyl


Not gonna lie that killed me.
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TheyAllFloatDownHere

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:17 pm

I agree that Columbine is old news and has been researched to the point that there is nothing new, People should focus on more recent and modern problems and events like VT and Newtown which still have questions unanswered.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:20 pm

There's a lot new. Just in the past year, we saw a video of Eric and Dylan moving the bombs into the cafeteria, something the FBI missed for 18 years.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:21 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I agree that Columbine is old news and has been researched to the point that there is nothing new, People should focus on more recent and modern problems and events like VT and Newtown which still have questions unanswered.

Eh, yeah but sometimes the time period has a lot to do with why someone is interested in a certain event. Like stated above there's an eerie feeling surrounding Columbine that makes it stand out from the others, and I think some of it has to do with the time period it happened in and the fact that mass shootings weren't as common of an occurance as they are today.

Its like someone being interested in the Manson murders - even Older news - and most people interested in it weren't even alive yet when it happened, but that's another case that has an eerie feeling surrounding it and I can understand why it's fascinating to people. There's plenty of older historical cases that people are still interested in even though all the info on them is available (technically VT is old news now having passed the 10 year mark). It doesn't mean they're not also into more current events.

For me Columbine is a weird part of history that I can actually relate to, b/c I was in high school at the time and remember what it was like back then compared to how things are now. Its just a weird, nostalgic interest to me I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It is perfectly possible to have an interest in the Columbine tragedy for reasons that have nothing to do with admiring Errogant and Dyldo. There's the historical perspective and how we got from 1999 to now. There's the eerie haunting effect of the numerous artifacts surrounding the case. There's the interest in why Eric and Dylan snapped and others didn't.

You are partially correct, of course--It is true that I am in no position to fault people for being haunted for the rest of their lives by their own high school bullying, which surely describes lots of the posters here--I myself am still angry about things that happened when I was 11. And the case HAS been researched to death. Posts here have slowed to a trickle for probably precisely that reason. But I *can* look down on what Eryan and Dyl-dyl did, because I never flipped out and decided to blow away people I didn't even know because of my lame redneck dump of a high school. If you don't actually commit a crime, you are better than someone who did.

Perfect response and,
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Errogant
thanks for the laugh dude.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:17 pm

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Quote :
Eh, yeah but sometimes the time period has a lot to do with why someone is interested in a certain event. Like stated above there's an eerie feeling surrounding Columbine that makes it stand out from the others, and I think some of it has to do with the time period it happened in and the fact that mass shootings weren't as common of an occurance as they are today.

Its like someone being interested in the Manson murders - even Older news - and most people interested in it weren't even alive yet when it happened, but that's another case that has an eerie feeling surrounding it and I can understand why it's fascinating to people. There's plenty of older historical cases that people are still interested in even though all the info on them is available (technically VT is old news now having passed the 10 year mark). It doesn't mean they're not also into more current events.

For me Columbine is a weird part of history that I can actually relate to, b/c I was in high school at the time and remember what it was like back then compared to how things are now. Its just a weird, nostalgic interest to me I guess.


Yeah columbine is the driving force and inspiration for most future massacres as it was the first major attack but as you said about manson most people who follow the "True Crime" and tumblr community tend to overfocus on Manson, ramirez, columbine and a few other serial killers i feel there are so many other killers that havent been discussed or explored such as the Nightime killers,
Dnepropetrovsk maniacs or even the 2 men in china who nearly wiped two towns with grenades and assault rifles who were being hunted by the army during their spree,i feel that people should expand to undiscovered topics but hey if someone wants to research what they want its all up to them.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
i feel that people should expand to undiscovered topics

Ironic.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
i feel that people should expand to undiscovered topics

Ironic.

Dennis and Katerina are fairly known and in my view they were just two immature kids who shot a shotgun out of a window then shot themselves on stream for attention.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:46 am

What separates us from the copy cats? Maybe being able to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

Eric & Dylan got caught up in a revenge fantasy and thought they could bring on WWIII or whatever by blowing up a high school. The copy cats just love to romanticize tragedy as most people in general do, I think. Most people just watch movies & read, they don't shoot up their schools or workplaces and think that will somehow make things better.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:41 am

"Society, society, society"... People who think like Eric and Dylan and haven't evolved psychologically beyond that point only see the fault in others, never themselves. Every unfortunate occurrence, every inconvenience that happens to them is ALWAYS at the foot of someone else's hubris. It can't be because they have an unfriendly disposition or they preemptively judge others without giving them a chance or they're absolutely unwilling to take chances or try new things because of something that happened to them in the 8th grade. It can't be because they're an elitist about their interests and hobbies and can't suffer the plebs who've never heard of KMFDM. It can't be because they yearn for like-minded friends while spending all their waking hours indoors and staring into a screen.

I understand feeling anger when thinking about the slights of the past, and even being so annoyed and disgusted by certain people in your social circles that you wouldn't much care if something horrible happened to them. But what separates some people on the forum with "admirers", "followers" or "copycats" are their perspective. The way I see it, the person who maligns me has their own problems and isn't dealing with them very well, hence their inability to play well with others and be taken seriously. The people who cut me off in traffic or the coworkers who make indirect comments that irritate me won't remember them after a day or two, so why should I?

How does anger enrich me? Does resentment pay my bills? Can self-pity improve my personal life? Is the hatred of hundreds of strangers a good look on a woman halfway to 30 who graduated high school 7 years ago?

Just being real here... after 6 years in production I thoroughly hate my job. I don't like getting up and leaving the house in general. No one likes to pay bills. No one likes cleaning up other people's messes, or dealing with the short comings of others. No one likes to wait in a line or be put on hold or pay a fine. No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for the small e-book.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:41 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Just being real here... after 6 years in production I thoroughly hate my job. I don't like getting up and leaving the house in general. No one likes to pay bills. No one likes cleaning up other people's messes, or dealing with the short comings of others. No one likes to wait in a line or be put on hold or pay a fine. No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

I don't have much to add here, but I am intrigued by your thoughts on society as an abstraction for E&D instead of an actual problem for them based in reality. Made me think.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
"Society, society, society"... People who think like Eric and Dylan and haven't evolved psychologically beyond that point only see the fault in others, never themselves. Every unfortunate occurrence, every inconvenience that happens to them is ALWAYS at the foot of someone else's hubris. It can't be because they have an unfriendly disposition or they preemptively judge others without giving them a chance or they're absolutely unwilling to take chances or try new things because of something that happened to them in the 8th grade. It can't be because they're an elitist about their interests and hobbies and can't suffer the plebs who've never heard of KMFDM. It can't be because they yearn for like-minded friends while spending all their waking hours indoors and staring into a screen.

I understand feeling anger when thinking about the slights of the past, and even being so annoyed and disgusted by certain people in your social circles that you wouldn't much care if something horrible happened to them. But what separates some people on the forum with "admirers", "followers" or "copycats" are their perspective. The way I see it, the person who maligns me has their own problems and isn't dealing with them very well, hence their inability to play well with others and be taken seriously. The people who cut me off in traffic or the coworkers who make indirect comments that irritate me won't remember them after a day or two, so why should I?

How does anger enrich me? Does resentment pay my bills? Can self-pity improve my personal life? Is the hatred of hundreds of strangers a good look on a woman halfway to 30 who graduated high school 7 years ago?

Just being real here... after 6 years in production I thoroughly hate my job. I don't like getting up and leaving the house in general. No one likes to pay bills. No one likes cleaning up other people's messes, or dealing with the short comings of others. No one likes to wait in a line or be put on hold or pay a fine. No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for the small e-book.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:01 pm

[quote="Littlelo"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

This is the part that makes no sense to me. People who disagree with society are at war with themselves? So transgenders disagree with how society treats them so they are at war with themselves... I see... anyone who has fought for change in this "society" they are only warring with themselves and need to accept that segregation is necessary, Women do not need rights because they are inferior. Am I misreading you here?

Acceptance of oneself doesn't stop people from bullying you from demeaning you because your different, sure you can be a pussy and put up with it let the world destroy you. I don't see how that helps anyone. You are under the impression that society can't be changed, I'm sorry you feel like that, must suck. But society has always changed or evolved, there are many events that have forced change.

Only takes one person to change society, in Eric and Dylans case it took two. They changed how police handle shooter situations, they changed how people view safety in general. Rosa Parks should have got up and obeyed because she can't change society, she's only one person, WTF was wrong with Rosa? Damn her.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:08 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

You are an admirer, you are a follower, you just haven't slipped through the filtering system to commit mass murder.

I mean, isn't this a bit of a bold statement to make...insinuating that everyone on this forum is a step away from mass murder scratch
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

This is the part that makes no sense to me.  People who disagree with society are at war with themselves?  So transgenders disagree with how society treats them so they are at war with themselves...  I see... anyone who has fought for change in this "society" they are only warring with themselves and need to accept that segregation is necessary, Women do not need rights because they are inferior.  Am I misreading you here?

Acceptance of oneself doesn't stop people from bullying you from demeaning you because your different, sure you can be a pussy and put up with it let the world destroy you.  I don't see how that helps anyone.  You are under the impression that society can't be changed, I'm sorry you feel like that, must suck.  But society has always changed or evolved, there are many events that have forced change.

Only takes one person to change society, in Eric and Dylans case it took two.  They changed how police handle shooter situations, they changed how people view safety in general.  Rosa Parks should have got up and obeyed because she can't change society, she's only one person, WTF was wrong with Rosa?  Damn her.

I don't think the OP is suggesting that society is always right and should never be challenged. I think they are hinting at the daily chores that come with being a member of society that Eric and Dylan were so angry about. Bullying is not something that should be accepted, just as racism and other similar things should not be. But neither of them were up against anything that they could not have handled. They had friends and family who cared about them. They were two weeks from graduating and leaving the school/people that caused them unhappiness. At the time of the massacre they had severely impaired reasoning and views of reality which led them to believe society was at fault and killing people was necessary.


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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:44 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

You are an admirer, you are a follower, you just haven't slipped through the filtering system to commit mass murder.

I mean, isn't this a bit of a bold statement to make...insinuating that everyone on this forum is a step away from mass murder scratch
"You guys are just like me! Secretly you also want to murder people!"

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
No one likes being used or lied to. But when you really sit down and think about it, and I mean REALLY think about it - anyone who's always complaining about "society" is really at war with themselves. The acceptance of things one can't change comes only with the acceptance of the self. Neurotic individuals like Eric and Dylan couldn't cope with life's menial challenges because ultimately their problem was with themselves. "Society" is an abstraction, something that distanced E & D and those like them from how they really felt about themselves. Introspection and self-improvement were too painful for them, or just too tedious. The only vessel you have absolute control over is yourself. The world was never yours.

This is the part that makes no sense to me.  People who disagree with society are at war with themselves?  So transgenders disagree with how society treats them so they are at war with themselves...  I see... anyone who has fought for change in this "society" they are only warring with themselves and need to accept that segregation is necessary, Women do not need rights because they are inferior.  Am I misreading you here?

Acceptance of oneself doesn't stop people from bullying you from demeaning you because your different, sure you can be a pussy and put up with it let the world destroy you.  I don't see how that helps anyone.  You are under the impression that society can't be changed, I'm sorry you feel like that, must suck.  But society has always changed or evolved, there are many events that have forced change.

Only takes one person to change society, in Eric and Dylans case it took two.  They changed how police handle shooter situations, they changed how people view safety in general.  Rosa Parks should have got up and obeyed because she can't change society, she's only one person, WTF was wrong with Rosa?  Damn her.

I don't think the OP is suggesting that society is always right and should never be challenged. I think they are hinting at the daily chores that come with being a member of society that Eric and Dylan were so angry about. Bullying is not something that should be accepted, just as racism and other similar things should not be. But neither of them were up against anything that they could not have handled. They had friends and family who cared about them. They were two weeks from graduating and leaving the school/people that caused them unhappiness. At the time of the massacre they had severely impaired reasoning and views of reality which led them to believe society was at fault and killing people was necessary.

I like this. This is all very true. Eric and Dylan really did not experience anything that was out of the ordinary. They were pretty darn well average. Teenagers get in trouble, they can feel alienated and ugly, they can be depressed etc. In a month their lives would have changed significantly. But instead of holding out for a better future the two of them crumbled under the pressure of their own lives.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:29 pm

Some people don't see monotony as a future.

Also graduating doesn't necessarily equate happiness in E&D's case, that was a possibility but going from wanting to commit suicide for years to being happy cause you graduated would not solve the problems Dylan would encounter in College, which would have been much worse for him than High School.. All graduating does is change this into a college shooting.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Some people don't see monotony as a future.  

Also graduating doesn't necessarily equate happiness in E&D's case, that was a possibility but going from wanting to commit suicide for years to being happy cause you graduated would not solve the problems Dylan would encounter in College, which would have been much worse for him than High School..  All graduating does is change this into a college shooting.

I agree that Dylan's depression would not have ended at graduation. I would like to think that moving to college, starting over in a new town, having freedom, and being away from Eric may have helped his mental state. But as Sue describes (in her book) how she perceived his mental illness to be at the time, he was not thinking or acting logically. So you could be right, but we will never really know.
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silentprocess

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree that Dylan's depression would not have ended at graduation. I would like to think that moving to college, starting over in a new town, having freedom, and being away from Eric may have helped his mental state. But as Sue describes (in her book) how she perceived his mental illness to be at the time, he was not thinking or acting logically. So you could be right, but we will never really know.

True that! I should amend what I said actually, I think Dylan would have eventually committed suicide regardless. I think Eric would have ended up dead or in prison regardless. I just personally think these two were ill-fated regardless of what happened. Some people are just doomed from the beginning.

Just my thoughts though, who knows. Where can I look for these alternate futures? I think I need an Infinity Stone, BRB gonna look for Thanos.

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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:50 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree that Dylan's depression would not have ended at graduation. I would like to think that moving to college, starting over in a new town, having freedom, and being away from Eric may have helped his mental state. But as Sue describes (in her book) how she perceived his mental illness to be at the time, he was not thinking or acting logically. So you could be right, but we will never really know.

True that!  I should amend what I said actually, I think Dylan would have eventually committed suicide regardless.  I think Eric would have ended up dead or in prison regardless.  I just personally think these two were ill-fated regardless of what happened.  Some people are just doomed from the beginning.  

Just my thoughts though, who knows.  Where can I look for these alternate futures?  I think I need an Infinity Stone, BRB gonna look for Thanos.

Follow-up question: do you think if Sue and Tom found evidence early on (1997-1998) that Dylan was depressed, they would have suggested he try medication? If so, would counseling and medication have worked for him? We know not all teens who are suicidal are lost causes...could he have been helped?
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:08 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree that Dylan's depression would not have ended at graduation. I would like to think that moving to college, starting over in a new town, having freedom, and being away from Eric may have helped his mental state. But as Sue describes (in her book) how she perceived his mental illness to be at the time, he was not thinking or acting logically. So you could be right, but we will never really know.

True that!  I should amend what I said actually, I think Dylan would have eventually committed suicide regardless.  I think Eric would have ended up dead or in prison regardless.  I just personally think these two were ill-fated regardless of what happened.  Some people are just doomed from the beginning.  

Just my thoughts though, who knows.  Where can I look for these alternate futures?  I think I need an Infinity Stone, BRB gonna look for Thanos.

Follow-up question: do you think if Sue and Tom found evidence early on (1997-1998) that Dylan was depressed, they would have suggested he try medication? If so, would counseling and medication have worked for him? We know not all teens who are suicidal are lost causes...could he have been helped?

I know this wasn't to me....but my opinion is that he could have been helped. I think he was scared to ask for help. He had tried St Johns wort on his own. I think if they could have found the right meds or therapy he could have been helped. A change of scenery could have helped too.

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Littlelo



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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree that Dylan's depression would not have ended at graduation. I would like to think that moving to college, starting over in a new town, having freedom, and being away from Eric may have helped his mental state. But as Sue describes (in her book) how she perceived his mental illness to be at the time, he was not thinking or acting logically. So you could be right, but we will never really know.

True that!  I should amend what I said actually, I think Dylan would have eventually committed suicide regardless.  I think Eric would have ended up dead or in prison regardless.  I just personally think these two were ill-fated regardless of what happened.  Some people are just doomed from the beginning.  

Just my thoughts though, who knows.  Where can I look for these alternate futures?  I think I need an Infinity Stone, BRB gonna look for Thanos.

Follow-up question: do you think if Sue and Tom found evidence early on (1997-1998) that Dylan was depressed, they would have suggested he try medication? If so, would counseling and medication have worked for him? We know not all teens who are suicidal are lost causes...could he have been helped?

I know this wasn't to me....but my opinion is that he could have been helped.  I think he was scared to ask for help.  He had tried St Johns wort on his own.  I think if they could have found the right meds or therapy he could have been helped.  A change of scenery could have helped too.  

I was thinking about the St. John's wort as well. Not only does it show that Dylan was willing to try natural remedies for his depression, but had Sue noticed it in his medicine cabinet, it could have started a dialogue between Dylan and his parents regarding his mental health. I don't believe Sue would have seen that and just let it go.
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PostSubject: Re: What really separates you from the copycats?   Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It's possible. I don't think it's likely though, that's just because I've been on medication since I was 16 in '94 and the medication made me much worse. On top of that the doctors keep switching me to different drugs every few months.. I won't go over the side effects, but I'm very lucky I survived being medicated.

Eric was on medication, did that make him worse, better? My trust for anything that messes with your mind is non-existent, lol. I'm probably the wrong person to ask.

I would say Dylan could have become more manic, could have become a little more evened out. But I don't think he would have survived.


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