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 The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:36 am

When Sue says she wishes that Dylan would die, I don't believe that. It completely contradicts what she wrote in her essay for Oprah's magazine. In the essay she says during some point in the afternoon, it was confirmed that Dylan and Eric were the shooters up at the high school. She then goes on to say "that even though I knew others were suffering, I was focused on the safety of my own child". I kept asking the police "where's Dylan? Is he okay?".

She also said earlier in the essay that if anything were to ever happen to either of her children, she'd never get over it. I do not, for a second, believe this woman actually prayed for her own son to die.




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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
When Sue says she wishes that Dylan would die, I don't believe that. It completely contradicts what she wrote in her essay for Oprah's magazine. In the essay she says during some point in the afternoon, it was confirmed that Dylan and Eric were the shooters up at the high school. She then goes on to say "that even though I knew others were suffering, I was focused on the safety of my own child". I kept asking the police "where's Dylan? Is he okay?".

She also said earlier in the essay that if anything were to ever happen to either of her children, she'd never get over it. I do not, for a second, believe this woman actually prayed for her own son to die.


As a mother I cannot envision a time or circumstance that would make me pray for my child to die. It just goes beyond any maternal instinct I have.  Although I have never been faced with something as horrific as what Sue had to deal with. While I believe Sue may have actually wished or prayed for Dylan's death as a means to stop what was happening,  I don't believe she truly meant it.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Yes Sue you were responsible and you even stated what you had done.  The pressure you put on a child that you had broken.
I wonder how would you act on the site of Dylan's parents? How were they supposed to bring him up?

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I actually do agree with a couple of points the original poster picks up on. The thing about Sue holding Dylan and having the feeling he will bring great sorrow disturbs me somewhat. Why would she even come out with that?


May have been a premonition of what was to come. If you believe in things of that sort.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:45 pm

Dylan never had to lie. He never had to actively do so because he just relied on the fact that his parents would trust him to manage his life responsibly. I'm sure his giftedness played a significant role in their long-standing dynamic of hands-off parenting and assuming the best out of him.  

Don't volunteer anything and they assume everything is fine with him.

If mom suspects he's smoking, deflect it and mom will feel bad for every doubting him in the first place.

I don't think he even thought about it really or played things a certain way intentionally, it's just how it was since he was a small child.
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:57 pm

She can honestly find excuses all she wants but the fact she didn't give a damn that her older son is doing drugs (no matter how hard or recreational), her younger son smoking, stealing, being moody, scratching lockers, writing violent essays, being drunk and actually having bottles of alcohol in his room, bullying handicapped kids is really concerning. Yeah I know he was punished for stealing and went through various programs but let's be honest, Sue and Tom brushed it off as something that just "happened" where boys will be boys.

My parents had a much stronger lock on me, I couldn't get away with all this shit when I was a kid and not get questioned by my mom, no way.
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I actually agree somewhat with your thread title but  not entirely and not for the same reasons you feel this way.

I do have great sympathy for what SK has been through. She lost her child in a nightmarish way for any parent and he's never coming back. She has to live with that forever.

Despite my sympathy, I am horrified and disgusted that Sue spent a large part of the book throwing Eric under the bus but portraying Dylan in as sympathetic light as you possibly could.
Sure, she has to admit that Dylan ended up a killer and what he did is terrible but she still portrays "Psychopath" Eric for leading her vulnerable son astray and being the fundamental reason this tragedy happened. That she would throw another troubled, dead kid under the bus to try to vindicate her family and make her son look less to blame and more deserving of sympathy and understanding disgusts me.

I understand it is a human thing for her to do but I will always be disgusted by that and for a woman who had years to reflect and research and think before writing this book, I don't feel its justified that she did so.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I was unaware Dylan's parents had a site. I doubt a random person on the internet talking to Sue would help her. It's very apparent where Dylan's mental issues originated from, they are hereditary and environmental. I would express to her my opinion though.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] That's exactly my point. I didn't have perfect parents but they actually cared enough to address severe issues in my life.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yes I believe this as well, Dylan was just doing what he was raised to do. Any "manipulation" on his part was just acting how he was taught to act.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:54 am

Has there been discussion on why Dylan was trying to distance himself from Eric? According to SK for a while when Eric would call he would use her as an excuse to get out of plans. Maybe that was for show?
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Has there been discussion on why Dylan was trying to distance himself from Eric? According to SK for a while when Eric would call he would use her as an excuse to get out of plans. Maybe that was for show?

Perhaps he was trying to make them think that he wanted distance from Eric, or maybe he truly did at that given time. It's hard to tell as Dylan's emotions were on a near constant roller coaster ride. Sue didn't mention how long this distancing ploy lasted.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:56 pm

The whole point of this post for me is. I believe Sue failed Dylan and for some reason that irritates me beyond belief. I know some people see Dylan as the worse one, I don't see him that way.

I see a lot of me in Dylan. Sadness, Grief, Loneliness, Depression. I just think she failed him utterly and not only that I seriously do think she took advantage of the situation as well. From everything I've read she has no understanding at all about mental health, she still doesn't even understand Dylan.

For some odd reason I wish she would have done something, anything at all, to help Dylan and change history so he just was another guy living an anonymous life. I wasn't saved, I still suffer daily from my issues. I just wish he didn't have to go through what he did I guess.

That's where my anger at Sue comes from, I'm not here to offend people, just express my views and I really do think what I posted is true. I don't want to convince anyone more than I want to expose Sue.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:27 pm

I would agree that both Dylan's parents and Eric's parents failed them in a way. I think Sue thought she had a closer relationship with Dylan than she did in reality. I think she prided herself as someone she thought her kids could come to with issues- and when they didn't she assumed that was because there were no issues.

She glossed over his transgressions as a teenager as well.

I think it is quite easy to blame Sue as opposed to the Harris family as they just seemed to shut down and close themselves away.

In the same vein though I do not blame her. Anyone can look back with hindsight to who Dylan was before with the knowledge of what he did and see the issues. Even Sue has admitted she had missed signs. None of us knew Dylan before Columbine. Would we have seen any of these issues ourselves if we had?

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I believe I would have, it's much easier to recognize one of your own. That's perhaps why it bothers me even more because I could have helped. Helped him survive at least, I couldn't help him recover. Just irritates me that people don't pay enough attention to notice things that are actually quite apparent if you know what to look for.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I believe I would have, it's much easier to recognize one of your own.  That's perhaps why it bothers me even more because I could have helped.  Helped him survive at least, I couldn't help him recover.  Just irritates me that people don't pay enough attention to notice things that are actually quite apparent if you know what to look for.


If I may ask, what would you have done to help him? I'm curious. Just because so many say he was beyond help.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:15 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well we would have related through shared interest, I was a huge doomer and quake player and I'm familiar with guns since I was raised with them.. We also have some shared interest in music, although my taste is far better than Dylans Smile. And then it's honestly as simple as listening and talking. I wouldn't have been exactly healthy for him I drank heavily and did stupid crap, but I never shot up a school.

He had no one to talk to that wanted to help him. Eric didn't want to and his parents were oblivious. No depressed kid wants to talk to their parents anyway, it would have to have been a peer...


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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I would agree that both Dylan's parents and Eric's parents failed them in a way.  I think Sue thought she had a closer relationship with Dylan than she did in reality.  I think she prided herself as someone she thought her kids could come to with issues- and when they didn't she assumed that was because there were no issues.

She glossed over his transgressions as a teenager as well.

I think it is quite easy to blame Sue as opposed to the Harris family as they just seemed to shut down and close themselves away.

In the same vein though I do not blame her.  Anyone can look back with hindsight to who Dylan was before with the knowledge of what he did and see the issues.  Even Sue has admitted she had missed signs.  None of us knew Dylan before Columbine.  Would we have seen any of these issues ourselves if we had?

I agree with your sentiments. I just wanted to add my thoughts.

I believe that Susan, and in turn Dylan, suffered from an inability to be authentic. Parents can employ any number of parenting styles and some are more efficient at raising balanced individuals than others. I believe that Dylan may have blamed his parents (though he still loved them) because he wasn't given permission to express himself like a human being around them. It was all about being polite or well mannered, being accommodating and considerate of the other person ad nauseam. A projection. Reading Susan's book I got the impression that he was more of a 'pupil' in his own home that would be smacked with a ruler for bad behavior than a child with a genuine connection to his family. This is my own impression her of course, but I always thought she tried to raise him with 'textbook' perfection in mind. I mean, she seemed completely mortified when she discovered that Byron was smoking weed and I was thinking, "Uh, weren't you young in the 70's when EVERYONE was smoking weed? What century do you live in?"

I don't believe being authentic to her children (such as saying that it's normal to feel like you don't fit in or everyone feels lonely from time to time) was one of her strong suits at all. I don't think Dylan was taught (or shown) how to cultivate emotional relationships with others in an effective way. I would extend this to Eric too, being that he was brought up in a military family.

Obviously I'm not blaming either set of parents for the massacre but cultivating trust and a "I know exactly what you're going through" kind of attitude is immensely helpful when dealing with young ones and teenagers. I don't think E/D had that.
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:29 am

I agree with a lot of what you say. I grew up in a similar environment as Dylan. The whole "well we have meals together, she is doing well in school and we taught her to say no to drugs so she is PERFECT, no need to talk about anything else"

The only thing I slightly disagree with is, when it comes to Eric and especially Dylan trying to relate and saying "I know exactly what you're going through' probably wouldn't have helped. Dylan felt SO different and disconnected. It's hard to explain, I'm a lot better than I have been, being older now and getting help but I still have issues with people saying that to me... especially if I know they are in different situations. I get irritated for some reason.

My brother tried to tell me that my parents didn't understand what I was going through in school but I just had to get over it. School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.


I have always said the scariest place in the world is inside my own head at times.

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
School wasn't just torture, being in my own mind and not feeling connected was even worse. Oddly I am told by people I went to school with that they thought I was so nice and shy.. and I felt like a monster.


I have always said the scariest place in the world is inside my own head at times.


This is very true. My anxiety comes out as ruminating thoughts. I think and think and think and obsess over everything until I am terrified of itty bitty things. It can be horrible

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:30 pm

Some of you read too much into things. If I knew my son was actively shooting people somewhere let alone at school, I would wish for him to die as well. Some of you act like he was being beaten and whipped on a daily basis. Can you blame her stance and thoughts on Eric? if she is insane then a million other parents must be too like Brooks Browns parents. Give it a rest. If anything I feel staying private not speaking about what happened ever pretending your son never existed (Eric's parents) is worse.
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The only thing I slightly disagree with is, when it comes to Eric and especially Dylan trying to relate and saying "I know exactly what you're going through' probably wouldn't have helped.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I don't think that would have done anything whatsoever. Someone on Dylans level would have had to open up to him and actually talk, like people used to do. The most difficult thing in my opinion would be resisting being pulled in by Dylan while your trying to help and pull him out. Much easier with my issues to join the misery than resist it. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:14 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Has there been discussion on why Dylan was trying to distance himself from Eric? According to SK for a while when Eric would call he would use her as an excuse to get out of plans. Maybe that was for show?

Eric seems like the friend that can be overbearing at times and you just need some space.
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:54 pm

Eric was intense for sure. It seems like it was easy to get on his shit list.

Again I don't remember where I saw it, but someone mentioned that E and D rarely fought or they got mad at each other VERY rarely and would not talk for only a day or 2. Dylan always seemed like the chill one, I wonder when he got mad at others if Eric was happy that he finally let it all out?
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric was intense for sure. It seems like it was easy to get on his shit list.


 I would love to go over all the various lists that Eric had made. He had shit lists, Semper Fi lists, etc. He liked to make lists.


I like to make lists as well. Shopping lists, grocery lists. Sadly they are usually forgotten at home and I am then forced to wander aimlessly around the store for hours trying to remember what was on them. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:03 am

LOL, I have to do lists in my notebook, in my emails.. and some are just random notes like "Do this" WHAT? Why did you just write that? How is helpful?

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
LOL, I have to do lists in my notebook, in my emails.. and some are just random notes like "Do this" WHAT? Why did you just write that? How is helpful?

That would have frustrated the hell out of me trying to figure out what it was about. All the while thinking it was something of dire importance and lives were at stake. Haha

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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:45 am

I was going through EVERYTHING and seeing if I forgot something, if I had pick someone up at the airport.. EEK!! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Have you read Kass' book about Columbine?  He writes a fair amount about Sue as a person and who she was before she was married and a mother.  Paints a good picture of her imho.  

I don't agree with all of what you said but I do think that Sue excuses Dylan from what he did quite a bit and I think that is a bit of motherly nature.  It is not right at all but it happens.  

The things she did with Dylan, and her parenting style relate back to who she is as a person which is where I feel the Kass book brings some of it to light.

She presents herself as a strong woman who was broken.  Someone who clings to logic rather than emotion but in reality is anything but
she's praying that he dies so she doesn't have to go see is fucked up ass in prison
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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:25 pm

I honestly wonder how Eric and Dylan would be on trial and in prison if they were caught.

I imagine they'd be separated from general population and I wonder if they'd have so many fangirls who adore them. Or if people would see them as the messed up kids they were.

17 year old me and present day me have different answers to that :\




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PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Sue Klebold has said things that are inexplicable in my opinion.  Things that to me define her character and point directly to her part in everything that happened.  Her guilt lies beyond being simply the mother of a killer, her guilt is the creation of a killer.  

Some things Sue has said with my commentary then summary.

"Dylan did not do this because of the way he was raised, He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised."

Deflecting blame at it's finest.  Claiming no responsibility for something she had a direct hand in.  Raising a killer.  Dylan was not born a killer, regardless of her idiotic claim that she felt dread upon holding him as a baby.  Dylan was turned into a killer by his parents.

"I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness"

LMFAO, seriously?  You brought up a son who killed people....  That is a statement that boggles my mind.  That someone can be so arrogant as to not realize they can actually make mistakes.

"I don’t understand the decision and I don’t agree with it, but I’m going to support it. This will be resolved quickly if we comply with the ruling, and I don’t want to make a bad situation worse by alienating you from the people running the school."

Said to Dylan on the way home after being suspended for 5 days due to hacking the schools servers.  What does she care about in this situation?  She cares about how the administration feels about her and Dylan.  Her reputation always takes precedence over anything and everything else.  She can do no wrong and her child cannot either, if she would admit that he did she would shatter her fabricated lie of a life.

"I told Dylan he couldn’t allow the obnoxious behavior of others to upset him."

In regards to being bullied.  Nice Sue, tell your child to hold everything in and pretend everything's fine like you do.  Again shifting blame, Dylan couldn't have caused anything that led to "obnoxious behavior" from others.  Shifting blame is a common theme in Dylan's writings, no clue where he got that from.  Not dealing with emotions...  Comes from Sue as well.

"I have read in the years since that the scratch read ‘Fags’ — a slur I have also read was frequently leveled against Dylan and Eric in the hallways at Columbine — but we did not hear that from the school."

In her book, in regards to Dylan scratching "fags" on a locker.  Her son cannot be blamed because he himself was called a fag!!!  Justification of actions because something was done to you.  I'm sure her lessons helped Dylan justify NBK.  Another thing is it would tarnish her and her sons reputation and that could not happen since that's all that ever mattered to her.

"This lack of follow-through on my part was uncharacteristic, but indicative: I believed Dylan was a psychologically healthy human being. I never considered that the paper could be a reflection of deep-seated problems. I knew it contained some rough language and a dark theme, but had confidence that his teacher and the school counselor would handle the situation appropriately.”

In regards to the paper Dylan wrote.  Has Sue done any parenting...  Ever?!  Severe lack of interest in her own child. Sue feels no responsibility for Dylan nor his actions.  This is one of the major factors that really makes Sue the responsible party for Dylans involvement in Columbine.  Sue believes others should take care of it...  WTF?!  Other don't have an investment in your child...  But neither did Sue.   I believe she was fooled by Dylan because she herself taught him to live a lie.  Never do anything that will give us a bad name, image means everything to her.  More than her children.

"I can be in a doctor’s waiting room and still hope they call me by my first name, rather than shout out Mrs Klebold, every time I meet someone and give my name, there’s a moment of hesitancy where I watch their face very closely. They may say, 'Gee, why does that sound so familiar?'"

Stated in 2016.  Still to this day caring solely about her reputation, not taking responsibility.  Some say it could be shame, but she has shown no shame other than her son brought a bad reputation to their name.

"They had different brain conditions. I believe Dylan had some kind of a mood disorder. I believe psychopathy is in a different category. For whatever reason, the two were like magnetic poles. They stuck together. They fed each other. I don’t want to say someone commits crimes because they have a mental illness – that is not true – but I believe strongly that both Dylan and Eric were victims of their own pathology, just as everyone else was a victim of that pathology.”

Here is a great one.  Dylan didn't choose to do this, he couldn't make the choice because he was mentally ill.......  She claims to be an advocate for mental illness but is at a complete loss when it comes to understanding it.  She says someone doesn't commit crimes because of mental illness and then says they were victims of their own pathology, ok then Sue.  Dylan is a victim of your upbringing.  Sue will divert blame to anything at any given moment.

Another event that shows Sue's culpability is how she reacted to Dylan saying "Stop pushing me, Mom. I’m getting angry, and I don’t know how well I can control it." Sue apologized later...  WTF?!  Your son cannot control his anger and you don't question it?  You don't talk to him?  You apologize because you yourself cannot handle emotions and you taught your son the same, Sue just simply could not handle it because she didn't know how.

"I never had anger towards him, except for the moment when I saw the Basement Tapes at the sheriff’s department, six months after he died. I felt about a day of anger because he was bad-mouthing everybody and everything – family members – and pulling things out of his past, some incident in day care when he was three years old. He was trying to latch on to things that made him feel angry, and he was grasping at straws because he’d had such a good life. But I just couldn’t sustain that anger."

Is Sue even human?  Dylan can do no wrong, not when he's killing people...  But he cursed on a tape!!  No one can see that!  Destroy the basement tapes!!!  She is a very sick person.

"I feel that Dylan was a victim of some kind of malfunction going on in his brain. If you explained suicide to a child, your grandfather died because he got sick in his brain and hurt grandma and then he hurt himself. That’s my thinking with Dylan. The Dylan I knew and raised was a kind person. He was thoughtful. He was conscious-ridden, which is why this is still so difficult for me to understand. I feel a need to apologize to anyone who might be offended because I’m not angry at him, or don’t judge him. But I don’t, because he is my son, and because I believe that whatever killed all the others, killed him, too.”

Explaining why she's not mad about the actual massacre.  Doesn't even talk about the victims..  Because according to Sue there are only 2 victims, herself and Dylan.  Dylan didn't kill anyone, his mental illness killed everyone...  But...  Mental illness doesn't cause crimes.... Sue??  Sue??  It's hard to even respond to this quote honestly, it's just simply sickening.

"I had the distorted belief that Dylan belonged to me. He was mine. And when I see movies, or plays, or songs, I have a sense that someone is taking him away from me, that they’re claiming ownership of something they know nothing about."

In regards to books, movies, ect.  Showing her true colors finally.  Dylan belonged to Sue, his legacy belonged to her.  Why?  Because who benefitted the most from Columbine?  Sue.  Sue the advocate, Sue the speaker.... Sue the murderer.

I could list quotes all day long that show how self-righteous, arrogant, manipulative and disgusting this woman is.  Dylans' tragedy was her creation and her property.  She wanted to be the only one to benefit from it.  He did no wrong because his mental illness did it, which diverts blame and doesn't "tarnish" her family name.  She created the perfect façade, she had this façade before Columbine and continues it today.  Caring mother, devoted, loving...  Her ignorance and inability to deal with emotions or any event that would make her or Dylan look bad caused the whole massacre.

Dylan didn't want to live a lie like his mother, he wanted to be real but was never taught how.

Burn in hell Sue.

Thank you for reading!

Let's not forget the simple fact that she does not even see this as a mass murder/massacre she's  still hung up on the fact of the idea of suicide....."""""Dylan did this through suicide Dylan committed suicide""""… Fuck lady,,, your son,,, a little boy that you born and bred whacked out the whole entire school....  THEN DID the graceful thing of committing suicide… That's not the ONLY damage he did that day. Maybe she could progress a lil more in her grief as a grieving parent when she clearly comes to terms with this. I sympathize for her loss but fuck.... face reality
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