Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
Screamingophelia
Top Contributor


Posts : 314
Join date : 2017-08-25

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:41 am

I have a genuine query, what could she have done? Dextered him? Taught him to just kill bad guys? IF she knew Dylan was on the path to murder people how do you stop it? How could Zach, Nate or Devon have stopped him? They were with him everyday. They were kids too.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Top Contributor


Posts : 314
Join date : 2017-08-25

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:57 am

Though on the other hand I do find I get a very WASP vibe, much like how I was raised, another reason I feel so dang connected to Dylan in an odd way. Not like a "I love him so much" but a "if I knew you in HS, I would have been a friend, I would have listened and got it more than you know"

Even after death and before Sue spoke out there has always been a "sweet Dylan, mean Eric" vibe.

No one is speaking out for Eric at all. Sue is holding on tight to the son she remembers. Tom and Byron don't talk about him. Eric's family doesn't either.

If Kevin ever rights a book about Eric I will buy a copy in a second.

My message is a bit all over the place, sorry about that! What if Dylan did say "I feel like I want to kill people then blow my brains out, in fact my best friend and I are blowing up the school and dying on that day. What's for dinner?'

Why the hell would a parent do?

I told my mom I wanted to bring a knife to school and stab people and my mom was like "no, that's not a good idea. Just watch TV"... sighs.... Please note this was 20 years ago. Then she wonders when Columbine happened I was like "OMG Eric Harris!!!" anyhoo, it's late and I'm a bit drunk.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
goodbyeversailles

avatar

Posts : 20
Join date : 2017-10-06
Age : 24

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:51 am

I haven't read her book yet (after having read Cullen's, I don't know if I can deal with the huge biased opinion that Dylan wasn't responsible for his actions), but there are a few things that have stood out to me that I feel I can speak on.

I absolutely hate it when parents claim that they did everything they could, and gave their child a good life and there were no mistakes involved. "He was grasping at straws because his life had been so good"?? Look, I get that you're old now and don't remember what it's like being a teenager and how confusing it can be, but you're just being an asshole. Dylan was not "grasping at straws to be angry," this boy was legitimately angry and depressed. These things he was "pulling from so long ago" were things that deeply affected him. Emotional pain is not like physical pain, as I'm sure you would know, and it doesn't matter how long ago that emotional pain was inflicted, it can still feel just as fresh ten years later as the day it happened. So lets not try to belittle that here, thanks.

I also can't understand how someone could say that they hoped their child was dead. No one should say that. I understand what he did was the worst thing he could possibly do, but damn, that's a bit cold.

Overall, I feel bad for Sue Klebold. I cannot even begin to imagine how you process something like that, and how it must feel. I definitely don't blame her for what happened, and while she may have had a bit of an indirect hand in propelling the chain of events that caused it, I can't hold her accountable like that. No one thinks their kid is going to do something like this. And on top of her losing her child in such a violent way, she feels the weight of innocent children who died at the hand of her son, probably feels guilty for grieving for him, and I can never imagine how that would feel. She has to bury her child, and also face the anger of her community, who is blaming her unfairly. I really can't blame her for trying to find sense in what her child has done, and coming up with what she has. I wish her nothing but the best.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
goodbyeversailles

avatar

Posts : 20
Join date : 2017-10-06
Age : 24

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:01 am

Screamingophelia wrote:

No one is speaking out for Eric at all.

I feel this so hard. At this point, I roll my eyes if I see that someone is trying to paint Dylan as a sensitive, impressionable sheep, and Eric the commanding psychopath. I absolutely hate how a lot of people try to shift blame away from Dylan, and pile it onto Eric. I find it really disrespectful and insulting, really. These two boys planned this together. They killed people together. Did they not hear the 911 recording? Dylan was having a hell of time shooting kids. He was having a lot of fun. That doesn't sound like a meek follower to me.

I don't think either of them were mentally sound, and that definitely triggered what happened, but it was a slow burn. JUST being mentally ill doesn't make you want to kill people. I don't think either of these boys were full-blown psychopaths. The things Eric wrote, he wrote them to make himself feel powerful. He felt small, weak, and was very insecure with himself. He became angry with how he was being treated, and that he couldn't do anything about it. Dylan became angry, too. They didn't just decide to blow their school up because they were bored. They were reduced to nothing every day of their lives, and they became angry and bitter. I'm not trying to excuse their deplorable actions, but it just bothers me when people portray Eric as some complete psycho who just wanted to kill people for no reason. There are almost always reasons, and they build up.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sscc
Top Contributor


Posts : 497
Join date : 2016-02-27

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:53 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
I have a genuine query, what could she have done? Dextered him? Taught him to just kill bad guys? IF she knew Dylan was on the path to murder people how do you stop it? How could Zach, Nate or Devon have stopped him? They were with him everyday. They were kids too.
My answer to this is the same as the answer I would give [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in response to the comment that Sue is hung up on the suicide aspect of murder-suicide.

I think the truth in most cases is that if you can get a suicidal mass murderer to stop being suicidal, then you can also stop a mass murder. Regardless of how angry and resentful a person may be, it is the suicide factor (the "indifference to life") that is at the root of their willingness to engage in antisocial behavior. Sue discusses this in her book and she didn't come up with the theory on her own.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :
They do not try to get away. In the end, half turn their guns on themselves or are shot dead by others. They not only want to kill, they also want to die.

...

Perhaps the aspect that most set these crimes apart, aside from their spectacular nature, was this: Regular criminals try to get away with their crimes. More than a third of regular homicides went unsolved in 1997. But among the 102 killers in the Times database, not one got away. Eighty-nine never even left the scene of the crime.

...

More tellingly, 33 of the offenders killed themselves after their crimes. Nine tried or wanted to commit suicide, and four killed themselves later. Nine were killed by the police or others, perhaps committing what some refer to as ''suicide by cop.''

''The number of people knowingly getting killed is striking,'' Prof. Alfred Blumstein of the Heinz School of Public Policy and Management at Carnegie Mellon University said after examining the review. Professor Blumstein is the director of the National Consortium on Violence Research.

Dr. Jamison said: ''The link between suicide and homicide is a very real one, and it hasn't been studied nearly enough. It has always struck me about Columbine, people forget they committed suicide. And that's understandable -- it was the least important thing from the public point of view.''

Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar in upstate Olean, N.Y., offered a glimpse into this suicidal impulse in the note he left before he hanged himself with a knotted bedsheet in the county jail. He was awaiting trial after firing random shots out the window from the third floor of his high school, killing two passers-by and a school custodian, and wounding nine others.

''I guess I just wanted to kill the person I hate most -- myself,'' he wrote. ''I just didn't have the courage. I wanted to die, but I couldn't do it, so I had to get someone to do it for me. It didn't work out.''

Barbaro's quote reminds me of Eric talking about how he makes fun of people who remind him of himself because he has low self-esteem and wants to rip on himself and also saying that this is where a lot of his hate comes from. You can't jump directly to the conclusion that this means that he wanted to kill others because he wanted to kill himself but it's not outside the realm of possibility and in any case, it's undeniable that if Eric had valued living more than he valued killing, then Columbine would not have happened. I think the same is true for the majority of mass killings.

In his journal, Dylan spoke of getting a gun and killing himself before he ever mentioned killing other people. That's why Sue focuses on the subject of suicide prevention. I think it's a very logical place to start.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ivan
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2858
Join date : 2013-03-15

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:56 am

Well she definitely doesn't like giving much responsibility to Dylan for his actions, instead swaying the blame in other directions.

If Sue is genuine about her feelings about Dylan and is not trying to distract people away from the shame his actions have brought her family then Dylan is a serious candidate for a psychopath.

I know people will try and deflect anything I say here about that but in my mind his manipulation, lies, deceit, anger, aggression, blood-lust and narcissism all point toward him being one when he was alive; as does his in-detail plan to attack his school which he carried out.

The fact nobody casts much blame his way and instead pin it all on Eric is quite telling, too, when evidence shows he was perhaps even angrier than Eric.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 665
Join date : 2017-03-03
Location : TN./VA.

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:37 am

Ivan wrote:
Well she definitely doesn't like giving much responsibility to Dylan for his actions, instead swaying the blame in other directions.

If Sue is genuine about her feelings about Dylan and is not trying to distract people away from the shame his actions have brought her family then Dylan is a serious candidate for a psychopath.  

I know people will try and deflect anything I say here about that but in my mind his manipulation, lies, deceit, anger, aggression, blood-lust and narcissism all point toward him being one when he was alive; as does his in-detail plan to attack his school which he carried out.

The fact nobody casts much blame his way and instead pin it all on Eric is quite telling, too, when evidence shows he was perhaps even angrier than Eric.  


I agree wholeheartedly with you! I have always said that Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing. He was the one who had everyone fooled. I think Dylan was the better manipulator, was better at hiding his true intentions and feelings. No doubt he was suffering from mental issues, and everyone seems to try to use that to explain away or lessen his responsibility. But he was an equal participant in the massacre.

_________________
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
                                                                                         -Friedrich Nietzsche


I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
               -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Top Contributor


Posts : 314
Join date : 2017-08-25

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:17 am

I think 4/20 gave Dylan the chance to let all of the "nice guy" go and let his inner rage out. I think there were some genuine things about Dylan. I don't think he was a complete liar, he probably did have some really earnest feelings but he had a LOT of issues that he was trying to deal with on his own, which for adults doesn't work, let alone a kid. Long before Sue's book the "sweet Dylan" image has been going around.

I'm not big on blaming Eric for everything.


I'd love to see their good bye messages one day, they show Dylan as being "cold" but Eric is a lot more emotional.

I sometimes looked at Dylan as the blunt object. Look at their shirts they wore too. Eric was more calculating and Dylan was the definition of Wrath.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Top Contributor


Posts : 314
Join date : 2017-08-25

PostSubject: Re: The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold   Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:15 am

It is also sad irony that her family was so anti gun, her son killed with guns and now when she goes on speaking tours she evidently has armed guards so no one tries to hurt her because of what Dylan did.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
The self-righteous arrogance of Sue Klebold
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
 Similar topics
-
» The Righteous and Free OOC (1x1 sign up)
» Sword & Shield
» Custom Changes to Dalelands Beyond
» A Righteous Challenge

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: