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 Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan

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PostSubject: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:07 pm

Am I the only one who thinks Dylan is let off the hook a little too much regarding Columbine? You hear interviews and hear opinions and alot of it is "Oh Eric wanted it, planned it. Dylan just wanted to die, he was depressed."

I don't think it's a case of 'Blaming Eric too much' I just feel people don't pin enough of it on dylan, probably due to the image of Dylan we've all heard from his mother.

Thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:35 pm

I agree. Dylan is mostly portrayed as the love seeking, lonely, depressive, while Eric is just mainly called a psychopath.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:44 pm

In my opinion, both planned it, and both carried it out. So both should have equal blame. Yet some say because Dylan didn't kill as many as Eric that he should carry less responsibility. Dylan still killed. End of story.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:52 pm

People often blabber on how Eric was the mastermind psychopath while Dylan being his lap dog slave. These "researchers" get their information from Cullenbine, of course.

First of all, NBK was not Eric's idea. In his journals, Dylan mentioned going on an NBK styled rampage with his mystery girl. NBK stands for Natural Born Killers, one of his favorite movies where a couple goes on killing sprees together.

Speaking of journals, Dylan started to write his thoughts in 1997, a year before Eric. Dylan's writings are mostly complaining and whining, with an addition of his "I am God." coping mechanism, which is also going to be used by Eric, who will start his diary for an intended audience, in case his writings get released after NBK.

On the other hand, Eric's journals express anger and hatred towards the humanity. Was this really the case? Did Eric really despise everyone on this planet? Not really, as said above, Eric used journals to speak to his audience and future followers. "I am so freaking Godlike!" coping mechanism is greatly present in the entries, to cover his feelings of inferiority by acting all superior. He breaks his "REB" character on one occasion, in his last entry, which is probably the only genuine writing from him, where he says how everyone was making fun of his weakness and made him an outcast. Basement tape transcripts are a more accurate representation of the two, in one of the tapes Eric expresses how he feels sorry for his family and friends after the massacre, and also starts crying in his car in the other tape.

Many people still have a wrong image about them, they think Dylan was a loner and a nice boy, while Eric was a popular tough guy with a lot of friends and girls. None of this is true. Dylan had Nate, Chris, Brooks, Zack and others, meanwhile Eric barely had anyone apart from Dylan and two acquaintances and a problematic friendship with Brooks.

They say how Eric was the lead planner of the massacre, which is partly true, as most of the bomb constructions are done in his garage, but he lacked organisation. Dylan was better at hiding everything, his parents had no idea what he was doing. However, Eric's father found out one of the pipe bombs, which proves a lot of things.

This belief about only Dylan wanting to die is obviously based from media coverage of their journals (As mentioned, Eric's journals are not his actual feelings) and Sue speaking out, while Eric's parents wanted privacy and just moved on from the entire thing. Sue has a bias towards her son, but it's absolutely normal and we shouldn't blame her about that.

To conclude, they both had same intentions, they felt homicidal and suicidal too. Eric wanted to die just like Dylan wanted to kill. Eric suffered because he was bullied, Dylan suffered because he was bullied. Bombing and destroying their school was the only way to get a revenge in their minds, as they were cowards who had no courage to stand up to their abusers.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:59 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
People often blabber on how Eric was the mastermind psychopath while Dylan being his lap dog slave. These "researchers" get their information from Cullenbine, of course.

First of all, NBK was not Eric's idea. In his journals, Dylan mentioned going on an NBK styled rampage with his mystery girl. NBK stands for Natural Born Killers, one of his favorite movies where a couple goes on killing sprees together.

Speaking of journals, Dylan started to write his thoughts in 1997, a year before Eric. Dylan's writings are mostly complaining and whining, with an addition of his "I am God." coping mechanism, which is also going to be used by Eric, who will start his diary for an intended audience, in case his writings get released after NBK.

On the other hand, Eric's journals express anger and hatred towards the humanity. Was this really the case? Did Eric really despise everyone on this planet? Not really, as said above, Eric used journals to speak to his audience and future followers. "I am so freaking Godlike!" coping mechanism is greatly present in the entries, to cover his feelings of inferiority by acting all superior. He breaks his "REB" character on one occasion, in his last entry, which is probably the only genuine writing from him, where he says how everyone was making fun of his weakness and made him an outcast. Basement tape transcripts are a more accurate representation of the two, in one of the tapes Eric expresses how he feels sorry for his family and friends after the massacre, and also starts crying in his car in the other tape.

Many people still have a wrong image about them, they think Dylan was a loner and a nice boy, while Eric was a popular tough guy with a lot of friends and girls. None of this is true. Dylan had Nate, Chris, Brooks, Zack and others, meanwhile Eric barely had anyone apart from Dylan and two acquaintances and a problematic friendship with Brooks.

They say how Eric was the lead planner of the massacre, which is partly true, as most of the bomb constructions are done in his garage, but he lacked organisation. Dylan was better at hiding everything, his parents had no idea what he was doing. However, Eric's father found out one of the pipe bombs, which proves a lot of things.

This belief about only Dylan wanting to die is obviously based from media coverage of their journals (As mentioned, Eric's journals are not his actual feelings) and Sue speaking out, while Eric's parents wanted privacy and just moved on from the entire thing. Sue has a bias towards her son, but it's absolutely normal and we shouldn't blame her about that.

To conclude, they both had same intentions, they felt homicidal and suicidal too. Eric wanted to die just like Dylan wanted to kill. Eric suffered because he was bullied, Dylan suffered because he was bullied. Bombing and destroying their school was the only way to get a revenge in their minds, as they were cowards who had no courage to stand up to their abusers.

Very much agree with the majority of this. Can't blame Sue at all for wanting to get some positivity into Dylan's public image, shame the Harris' won't do the same for Eric.

Cowards though? There I disagree. Misguided, mentally unstable and distressed individuals yeh but cowards? Got to have some kind of bravery to plan and actual execute something like Columbine. Dylan and eric wanted revenge on the school and the abuser, they just knew standing up to the bullies directly on a day to day basis was kind of meaningless. Don't condone what they did one bit, but i don't believe they were cowards.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


Very much agree with the majority of  this. Can't blame Sue at all for wanting to get some positivity into Dylan's public image, shame the Harris' won't do the same for Eric.

Cowards though? There I disagree. Misguided, mentally unstable and distressed individuals yeh but cowards? Got to have some kind of bravery to plan and actual execute something like Columbine. Dylan and eric wanted revenge on the school and the abuser, they just knew standing up to the bullies directly on a day to day basis was kind of meaningless. Don't condone what they did one bit, but i don't believe they were cowards.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate Eric and Dylan. I can't hate them, because I was them at some point in my life, and I still strongly relate to both, especially Eric. I can guarantee you Eric had many issues, I know what kind of bullying he went through, I went through the same, probably worse. Still, what separates myself from him is, I have no intentions to kill people or commit suicide, but I had some ill minded thoughts through the part of my life when I suffered the most. Eric and Dylan would have changed themselves after high school, only if they survived those couple of weeks before the end of the school year. They couldn't stand up to their bullies, they were both skinny and fighting back would have made their problems worse. The administration of Columbine is at fault, too. Principal thought the school was a utopia, and saw everything through the pink tinted glasses. The counselors didn't do anything when they saw Dylan's essay about a murder, or when he hacked into the computer system, or the locker incident. I know school massacres were not a thing back in the day and people were not paranoid about gun drawings and talking about weapons, but they really should have kept an eye on him.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:45 pm

Nope, after everything I've read and what they left behind, I believe it was Dylan's idea and he brought the idea to Eric sometime around April of 1998 and from there, Eric went with it and made it happen. Eric never mentioned a word about it prior to April of 1998. Meanwhile, Dylan was off talking about "going NBK" with some girl back in 1997. And we all know, in one way or another, Eric loved to write down all his thoughts and plans. I believe he started the journal in April of 1998, because that is when he really started thinking about it and planning it AKA when Dylan brought the idea to him.

I do think that adding the bombing to it was Eric's plan, but I 100% think Dylan brought the idea to Eric and I think there's a good amount of evidence left behind to support that. Dylan was the manipulator, not Eric. Dylan pretty much had Eric plan, prepare and I'm betting spend more money than him on this so that he could have a reason to kill himself.

And ultimately, I do think that Dylan wanted NBK to happen so he could finally have a reason to kill himself. And he used Eric to get it. He even says in his journal that he wants to use NBK to break free. Which is why I don't understand why so many people still don't get it that Dylan's main purpose and reason for this was to die. He flat out says it. This whole thing started because Dylan was depressed and suicidal and yes, too much of a coward to just kill himself. He needed to kill other people because he knew once he did, he wouldn't be able to back out. He knew it would be either kill himself, get kill by police or go to jail forever. He would not have gotten the death penalty because he lived in the state of Colorado who does not execute anyone under the age of 18. I hear that a lot "Dylan would have gotten the death penalty". No he wouldn't have. He was 17. In Colorado, you cannot give a 17 year old the death penalty.

And I think Dylan still kind of hesitated at the end. Eric shot himself and was dead before Dylan shot himself. I don't think he waited much longer but without a doubt (in my mind anyways), he waited to make sure Eric went through with it first.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:55 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Nope, after everything I've read and what they left behind, I believe it was Dylan's idea and he brought the idea to Eric sometime around April of 1998 and from there, Eric went with it and made it happen. Eric never mentioned a word about it prior to April of 1998. Meanwhile, Dylan was off talking about "going NBK" with some girl back in 1997. And we all know, in one way or another, Eric loved to write down all his thoughts and plans. I believe he started the journal in April of 1998, because that is when he really started thinking about it and planning it AKA when Dylan brought the idea to him.

I do think that adding the bombing to it was Eric's plan, but I 100% think Dylan brought the idea to Eric and I think there's a good amount of evidence left behind to support that. Dylan was the manipulator, not Eric. Dylan pretty much had Eric plan, prepare and I'm betting spend more money than him on this so that he could have a reason to kill himself.

And ultimately, I do think that Dylan wanted NBK to happen so he could finally have a reason to kill himself. And he used Eric to get it. He even says in his journal that he wants to use NBK to break free. Which is why I don't understand why so many people still don't get it that Dylan's main purpose and reason for this was to die. He flat out says it. This whole thing started because Dylan was depressed and suicidal and yes, too much of a coward to just kill himself. He needed to kill other people because he knew once he did, he wouldn't be able to back out. He knew it would be either kill himself, get kill by police or go to jail forever. He would not have gotten the death penalty because he lived in the state of Colorado who does not execute anyone under the age of 18. I hear that a lot "Dylan would have gotten the death penalty". No he wouldn't have. He was 17. In Colorado, you cannot give a 17 year old the death penalty.

And I think Dylan still kind of hesitated at the end. Eric shot himself and was dead before Dylan shot himself. I don't think he waited much longer but without a doubt (in my mind anyways), he waited to make sure Eric went through with it first.

100% agree that that is what probably happened. I'm talking about the general public's (not columbiners) interpretation/image of Who was to Blame, how they view Dylan compared to how they view Eric, which one was more evil etc. Dylan's image is alot more positive than Eric's, despite IMO (and probably fact) that they were both manipulative and dangerous.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:58 am

I have a feeling if one of Eric's parents spoke out before Sue, people would have a slightly different picture of the two.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I have a feeling if one of Eric's parents spoke out before Sue, people would have a slightly different picture of the two.

I agree! If the Harris's had only opened up and talked, that would have greatly changed the medias outlook on both Eric and Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Well said. It's really interesting how everyone (including Sue) is so sure that initially it was all Eric's idea and Dylan just went along with it. It might be easier to believe that having read their notes/journals but the truth is far more complex.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:21 pm

I think that the idea to blow up the school and shoot the children belonged to Eric. But not because I believe that Dylan is just a follower. I fully admit that they both experienced suicidal thoughts and anger at their classmates. And they both had a desire to kill people (which is not normal in itself). But it was Eric who was obsessed with the idea of ​​revenge. Is it so important that this idea is called the NBK? It's possible that the name was invented by Dylan, but this does not say that he was the only one who proposed the massacre. From Dylan's diary it is clear that he had two variants of the development of events. Either his love answers him in return or he commits suicide and will seek his "true love" in another life (he will wander the endless hall, exploring the rooms, in one of which his love, his salvation and the only meaning of his life awaits him) . Why does he write "NBK" with Eric, and not the NBK? Is it because it's completely different for him? And he laments that he still has to go with Eric, that it seems to be his only way out (that he still will not find his "true love" in this life). Dylan's perception is not normal, due to his illness, in secret he dreams of unrealizable and bizarre things. Eric thinks more rationally, more mundane, but at the same time he is full of anger and frustration, which is hard for him to restrain (unlike Dylan). Just Eric was more open and active. Eric tried hard to get a girlfriend, while Dylan was afraid to even hint about it.
In any case, they both shared the idea of ​​mass murder. They are to blame equally for what happened, no matter who this idea came first. I still believe that this tragedy is the result of the union of two problem teenagers who needed support from each other, that none of them alone would have dared to do it.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think that the idea to blow up the school and shoot the children belonged to Eric. But not because I believe that Dylan is just a follower. I fully admit that they both experienced suicidal thoughts and anger at their classmates. And they both had a desire to kill people (which is not normal in itself). But it was Eric who was obsessed with the idea of ​​revenge. Is it so important that this idea is called the NBK? It's possible that the name was invented by Dylan, but this does not say that he was the only one who proposed the massacre. From Dylan's diary it is clear that he had two variants of the development of events. Either his love answers him in return or he commits suicide and will seek his "true love" in another life (he will wander the endless hall, exploring the rooms, in one of which his love, his salvation and the only meaning of his life awaits him) . Why does he write "NBK" with Eric, and not the NBK? Is it because it's completely different for him? And he laments that he still has to go with Eric, that it seems to be his only way out (that he still will not find his "true love" in this life). Dylan's perception is not normal, due to his illness, in secret he dreams of unrealizable and bizarre things. Eric thinks more rationally, more mundane, but at the same time he is full of anger and frustration, which is hard for him to restrain (unlike Dylan). Just Eric was more open and active. Eric tried hard to get a girlfriend, while Dylan was afraid to even hint about it.
In any case, they both shared the idea of ​​mass murder. They are to blame equally for what happened, no matter who this idea came first. I still believe that this tragedy is the result of the union of two problem teenagers who needed support from each other, that none of them alone would have dared to do it.

I agree they're both equally to blame but i'm just wondering if the general public see it that way thanks to Sue klebold obviously coming up and speaking about dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree they're both equally to blame but i'm just wondering if the general public see it that way thanks to Sue klebold obviously coming up and speaking about dylan.
In most cases, they are both represented as follows:
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


I agree they're both equally to blame but i'm just wondering if the general public see it that way thanks to Sue klebold obviously coming up and speaking about dylan.
In most cases, they are both represented as follows:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Add a broken heart to that image and it would've really been accurate to the public and tumblrs view on Dylan compared to Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:58 pm

I confess I haven't seen full movies but the clips I have seen from I'm Not Ashamed and Zero Hour do show Dylan as kind of a monotone "yea... killing... great. okay, I guess' and Eric as more of the deranged one.

I always thought since Eric seems to have a lot of follow through that they started talking about it, little by little planned and once Eric was really starting to gather weapons, Dylan got more "excited" about it.

Their friendship fascinates me. I sometimes have to harp on a friend to meet for coffee...
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I confess I haven't seen full movies but the clips I have seen from I'm Not Ashamed and Zero Hour do show Dylan as kind of a monotone "yea... killing... great. okay, I guess' and Eric as more of the deranged one.

I always thought since Eric seems to have a lot of follow through that they started talking about it, little by little planned and once Eric was really starting to gather weapons, Dylan got more "excited" about it.

Their friendship fascinates me. I sometimes have to harp on a friend to meet for coffee...  

Word of advice mate, I'm Not Ashamed is NOT a centrepiece for accuracy.
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PostSubject: blame 'em both   Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:53 pm

I think Eric is by far the more repulsive person of the two (and I don't think his journal was really an "act"), but it is probably true that Dyldo had the idea first, and probably did bring the idea to Eric....and I would wager dollars to donuts that it's because Dyl-dyl was too chicken to do it himself, which still makes Dylan a "follower" and a chicken. The idea that has to be dropped is "Eric made Dylan do it," not "Dylan wasn't a follower or a coward--I know this, because he had the idea first." Dylblow probably *does* make the more likely candidate for "being saved" than Errogant, but he's still a really pathetic person in a lot of ways.

All of the portrayals of Armadyllo as a lovesick puppydog sure are cute but it's on a gut level that I have to throw them out when I hear Dylbert going "wooo!" in the 911 call (if it actually is him) or that he blew Kyle Velasquez's face off or calling Isaiah Shoels you know what. Sorry Dylly-dally, but you made a douche of yourself on your last day on Earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:00 am

Oh I know!
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:13 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
All of the portrayals of Armadyllo as a lovesick puppydog sure are cute but it's on a gut level that I have to throw them out when I hear Dylbert going "wooo!" in the 911 call (if it actually is him) or that he blew Kyle Velasquez's face off or calling Isaiah Shoels you know what.  Sorry Dylly-dally, but you made a douche of yourself on your last day on Earth.


I agree.  Who in their right minds could still believe that Dylan was just a poor, misguided, love starved, lost soul after knowing his actions on 4/20? A lot seem to forget Dylan was also angry and sadistic. The image of Dylan being full of love is tainted by the fact that he purposely killed innocent people who had done nothing to him. It's like some seem to think that he walked around that school crying and begging people to just love him or to forgive him as he shot them. When in fact he laughed and joked as he killed, he taunted and made fun of them. The last things those kids heard were his hateful words and laughter.  

I do believe he was lost in some regards, and I do feel sympathy for both Eric and Dylan up to a point, but that sympathy ends when they decided to kill innocent people.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do think that adding the bombing to it was Eric's plan, but I 100% think Dylan brought the idea to Eric and I think there's a good amount of evidence left behind to support that. Dylan was the manipulator, not Eric. Dylan pretty much had Eric plan, prepare and I'm betting spend more money than him on this so that he could have a reason to kill himself.

And ultimately, I do think that Dylan wanted NBK to happen so he could finally have a reason to kill himself. And he used Eric to get it. He even says in his journal that he wants to use NBK to break free. Which is why I don't understand why so many people still don't get it that Dylan's main purpose and reason for this was to die. He flat out says it. This whole thing started because Dylan was depressed and suicidal and yes, too much of a coward to just kill himself.

Dylan had an idea, I agree with that and confided in his friend. But beyond that I disagree. I don't believe Dylan manipulated Eric at all, I believe Eric thought it was a great way to go out and took it over from there. You can see from their writings/drawings that the only thing Dylan cared about in regards to NBK was how he was dressed for the day of. It was Dylan's Fantasy and Erics reality. I highly doubt Dylan forced Eric to plan anything, Eric was more than willing to do it himself and Dylan was just along for the ride. Dylan had the idea and Eric drove to the destination.

They were in it together, I don't see anything showing that one manipulated the other. They were both invested in their own ways. Dylan wanted to die, that is for certain from his writings and making backing out not an option is certainly made NBK the best option.

I for one also do not find it cowardly to not commit suicide. I think it takes strength to not commit suicide. I'm sure you intended to mean that it would have better for him to commit suicide before 4/20 though.

Just thought I'd express my opinion on the matter.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
But it was Eric who was obsessed with the idea of ​​revenge. Is it so important that this idea is called the NBK? It's possible that the name was invented by Dylan, but this does not say that he was the only one who proposed the massacre. From Dylan's diary it is clear that he had two variants of the development of events. Either his love answers him in return or he commits suicide and will seek his "true love" in another life (he will wander the endless hall, exploring the rooms, in one of which his love, his salvation and the only meaning of his life awaits him) . Why does he write "NBK" with Eric, and not the NBK?
Eric was certainly obsessed with revenge and causing destruction but I think it figured in for Dylan as well. I basically agree with the idea that suicide was the main purpose of Dylan's participation in the massacre but I don't think that it was the only reason that he killed people that day. I don't know if anyone else agrees with this but I've said it before and I believe that Dylan was also looking for revenge and to experience the sensation of power, almost as much as Eric was that day. I also think that Dylan may have felt that there was some transformational power in the act of killing (and I think he alludes to this in his short story), "breaking free" from his own humanity and proving that he was truly above the rules which the "zombies" tried to impose upon him and that he deserved his godlike status which would bring him together with his true love.

Dylan's original mention of a killing spree in 1997 says that he will get a gun and kill whoever he wants to. It is not a matter of either finding his love or killing himself so he can find his love in the next life. It is an explicit confession that because he hasn't gotten what he wanted, he would like to kill other people. It is contained among many lines where he speaks of resentment, unhappiness and feelings of abandonment, suggesting that his motivation would be revenge against those who had not helped him. Even if he was not targeting those people directly, which I don't actually think he ever intended, it would be revenge in the sense that he knew that the people that cared about him at one time or another would always regret not helping him enough, like an eternal punishment for their lack of loyalty and support.

The next time he brings up killing is a few months later, right after the van incident. This time it is still not a matter of finding love or committing suicide. In my opinion, his plan is actually even darker at this point. He will either kill himself because she doesn't love him or he will go on a killing spree with her before they both kill themselves. He even states that he is motivated by revenge in this journal entry. He wants revenge on a society that is trying to "destroy what is superior." He says, "the zombies will pay for their arrogance, hate fear, abandonment, and distrust." There is only death now, one way or another. Love will no longer save him! Love will simply turn his murderous revenge fantasies into an epic love story, which is how he must have interpreted the movie Natural Born Killers, at least on some level. Once the van break in happened, he was convinced that society would always maintain it's control over him and he resented that because he felt that he was superior and therefore, above the rules (which is the exact sentiment that experts so often point to when they are discussing Eric's supposed psychopathic traits, by the way, except Dylan was expressing these feelings in his diary months before Eric began his own).

I do believe that forcing himself into suicide was what ultimately motivated Dylan to go through with it all and I do believe that Dylan's fantasy at the end was that he would die and find his love in the next life but I think Dylan eagerly anticipated the feeling of power that would go along with having control over the life and death of other people. I think that he wanted revenge for his perceived mistreatment and for not being recognized as superior. In fact, I even suspect that it was Dylan's philosophizing about his own inherent superiority and godlike status which nurtured this train of thought and these broad resentments in Eric's mind as well as the possibility that he first suggested to Eric that something as serious as murder was a legitimate form of "rebellion" which would correct those wrongs and prove their superiority, though we will never know for sure.

Why did Dylan refer to "NBK" when the plan was to proceed with Eric instead of with a girl that he loved? I am almost certain that Dylan truly thought of NBK as a love-based murder spree where he and his chosen girl would prove their devotion to each other while also getting back at a world that tried to tear them down and this would ensure that they could be together eternally in the afterlife. When Eric became his partner, the true love aspect was removed from the act of murder and revenge and it became something different, so it was "NBK" and no longer NBK. And I think that as a result, he had to adjust his fantasies to believe that proving his devotion to his true love and his inherent superiority over the zombies through committing murder-suicide with Eric instead would be enough to "break free" and bring him together with her on the other side.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:47 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Dylan's original mention of a killing spree in 1997 says that he will get a gun and kill whoever he wants to.
It is quite possible that he here refers to himself. He often talked about himself in allegorical form (he often writes "me" when he speaks from himself).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am almost certain that Dylan truly thought of NBK as a love-based murder spree where he and his chosen girl would prove their devotion to each other while also getting back at a world that tried to tear them down and this would ensure that they could be together eternally in the afterlife.
Dylan does not have enough of what the "zombie" has.
Quote :
I see jocks having fun, friends, women, LIVEZ.
If he suddenly finds his "true love," then why should he destroy everything? Why should he give up the opportunity to find love in this life (reality, incarnation)? After all, he is going to kill himself only if he does not find his love in this life. In that case, he will try to find it in another life. Dylan believes that he as a soul exists forever, he calls this "existence" or "everything" (when he realizes all these "secrets of existence"). It probably represents existence as a kind of endless reincarnation, search for rooms (incarnations). And when he says that they will be together, he means that they will enjoy their life, which will become complete. He was not going to kill himself and his girlfriend, it's just pointless. He is even ready to forget about the zombie, if only his love was with him.
Quote :
I will overcome all fears, doubts, & zombie-based thoughts (oxymoron) . . . I will follow our hearts to the halcyon, loving her. I love you Question
This is what concerns his diary. Don't forget that Dylan is not completely mentally healthy. He seems to live in two different realities. On the one hand, his dreams of "true love" and possession of some "secret knowledge" not available to mere mortals, on the other hand his worldly existence, in which he is just a shy teenager with depression. What is available in his imagination, in his thoughts (which he endows with magical properties), is not available in his reality. In real life, Dylan is embarrassed Embarassed  and afraid to show his feelings, his human side (his awkward body) prevents him from getting what he desperately craves.
In any case, I think that he, like Eric, felt the anger and disappointment that they shared with each other, fueling each other with these emotions from time to time. It is clear that if Dylan did not want to kill people, or take revenge on the "zombie", then he wouldn't have done it. Perhaps there was something in this life that could force them to abandon their destructive plans.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:48 am

I think for a lot of "surface" Columbiners (meaning they have not read journals or books other than Cullen) they just look at the facts like "Dylan didn't shoot as many rounds as Eric" or "Dylan let kids go and did not shoot them" or "Dylan only wanted love and acceptance"

Sure the first two are "facts". Dylan did not shoot as many rounds. But he still killed people and all the while Eric was throwing random bullets around he was throwing pipe bombs. If any of these people actually read books about Columbine or the 11k they would have a better understanding.

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:32 pm

I remember the first couple of years the whole "sweet Dylan" and "evil mastermind Eric" was something that was talked about. I don't remember knowing that much about him, but I was also 17 and may have had more of an interest in Eric Harris.. so my memory may be a bit tarnished.

I would be terrified if I was at the school that day but I would be much more scared if I encountered Dylan, especially if I didn't know him beforehand. He hid this anger so well that I bet it was a huge shock to his friends who knew him as a goofy and shy guy who would listen to their problems and was a good friend.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:37 pm

Let me ask you this...

Who did Eric blame?

Who did Dylan blame?

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:33 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Let me ask you this...

Who did Eric blame?

Who did Dylan blame?

Oh that is a good one!

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Let me ask you this...

Who did Eric blame?

Who did Dylan blame?


Considering their lists were quite extensive, an even better question would be who/what didn't E&D blame?

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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Let me ask you this...

Who did Eric blame?

Who did Dylan blame?


Considering their lists were quite extensive, an even better question would be who/what didn't E&D blame?

Could say they didn't blame their parents at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaming Eric vs Blaming Dylan   Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:05 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Let me ask you this...

Who did Eric blame?

Who did Dylan blame?


Considering their lists were quite extensive, an even better question would be who/what didn't E&D blame?

Could say they didn't blame their parents at all.


Actually Dylan does say that he blamed his parents in his journals and the basement tapes. Eric doesn't come out and say he blames his mom and dad, but he does say that maybe his parents made some mistakes along the way that they were not aware of.

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