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 Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)

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browneyes11
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Sabratha

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PostSubject: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 4:42 pm

Well, turns out I'm stupid. I had teh encessary information in the huge pile of documents on my HDD all along, its just that police had for some absurd reason mislabeled the document and it was listed under "evidence" along with "weapon list" and "property list items".

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There's also a list of the wounded, but this not include information who was wounded with what weapon and by which shooter. Let me quote Jenn, our forum member, she complied a list:

Jenn wrote:
Here is a list (so far) of how many times each surviving victim was shot. I will add to it if I can find definite amounts of times the rest were shot.

Lance Kirklin - Shot 5 times.

Mark Taylor - Shot 8 times.

Richard Castaldo - Shot 5-8 times.

Anne Marie Hochhalter - Shot twice.

Sean Graves - Shot 4 times.

Stephanie Munson - Shot once.

Daniel Steepleton - Shot once.

Patrick Ireland - Shot 3 times.

Michael Johnson - Shot 3 times.

Patricia Nielson - Shot once.

Jenna Park - Shot 3 times.

Makai Hall - Shot once.



some observations:
- Kyle was the only kid shot at and killed by just Dylan.
- Eric had a hand in 12 killings, Dylan had a hand only in 6.

Perhaps Eric was a better shot? Or perhaps Eric simply had chosen the better, more accurate guns? Certanly the case with his shotgun vs Dylan's shotgun.

Also, all the shots to Rahel were from Eric. So if anyone asked the "God" question to Rachel, it must have been Eric.

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Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 5:04 pm

Quote :
Kyle was the only kid shot at and killed by just Dylan.

Dylan is also the only shooter listed for Matthew Kechter.



Dylan had various issues with his weapons, didn't he? I don't know enough about guns to remember the details clearly right off hand, but I remember something about some ammo being dropped/defective. Also I remember reading that one of the reasons the TEC-9 was being sold was that it wasn't a very good gun.
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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 5:09 pm

ellie z wrote:
Quote :
Kyle was the only kid shot at and killed by just Dylan.

Dylan is also the only shooter listed for Matthew Kechter.



Dylan had various issues with his weapons, didn't he? I don't know enough about guns to remember the details clearly right off hand, but I remember something about some ammo being dropped/defective. Also I remember reading that one of the reasons the TEC-9 was being sold was that it wasn't a very good gun.

Of course, my bad.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 6:06 pm

I was looking at the number of fired shots at each victims and the location of their injuries and to me it seems like Dylan delivered the fatal shots to Daniel R., Lauren T., and John T. Now I'm not a doctor, I'm just speculating here.

And it's crazy how many times they shot Lauren in total. She received the most shots of anyone in the library.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 6:09 pm

Dylan could have also delivered the fatal shot to Corey. But I wasn't really sure about that one.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 6:20 pm

browneyes11 wrote:
Dylan could have also delivered the fatal shot to Corey. But I wasn't really sure about that one.

Probably. I'll need to confront this with the autopsy reports. But not today, probably on Tuesday.Have a busy next few days RL-wise.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 6:31 pm

If Dylan did deliver the fatal shots to Daniel R., Lauren, John, and Corey then that would give Eric a kill count of 7 and Dylan a kill count of 6. But I doubt that's right. That would be interesting if it was though. Everyone always says "Oh, Dylan didn't kill that many people" which makes me laugh and think to myself "It wasn't for lack of trying"

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 6:47 pm

browneyes11 wrote:
If Dylan did deliver the fatal shots to Daniel R., Lauren, John, and Corey then that would give Eric a kill count of 7 and Dylan a kill count of 6. But I doubt that's right. That would be interesting if it was though. Everyone always says "Oh, Dylan didn't kill that many people" which makes me laugh and think to myself "It wasn't for lack of trying"

I'm certain they both tried, both killed a few people point-blank execution style showing no remorse. So in this respect, both killed in cold blood. None of them can be seen just as an "accessory to murder" or just a follower.

Having said that, Eric is the more active one. Firing more shots, engaging aggressively targets at long range outside, initiating the fire exhcnage with the police from the library window and running out of 9mm ammo first before Dylan did.

Eric also almost killed Bree Pasquale, but Dylan distracted him in the last moment by asking him to come round and see Isaiah and Kechter.


BTW... Jeffco says that Dylan killled Lauren and that Eric shot Lauren when she was alreaady dead. That is because Eric was shooting at (and woudned) Jeanna and Lisa, but Lauren's body was also hit by Eric hit as it was under the same table as Jeanna and Lisa.
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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 8:31 pm

Sabratha wrote:

Eric also almost killed Bree Pasquale, but Dylan distracted him in the last moment by asking him to come round and see Isaiah and Kechter.

In her statement she states that Dylan said to Eric "Shoot her" and Eric responded "No, we're going to blow up the school anyway"
then Eric becomes distracted and goes to shoot Isaiah and Kechter. I don't think he was going to kill her, I think he was just fucking with her head.
Plus I think he had just broken his nose. I'm sure a broken nose can be distracting.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeThu May 28, 2015 9:37 pm

Thanks for posting this Sabratha. I had no idea Dylan only killed two people on his own. It kind of goes against my belief that Dylan was the more violent of the two. Then again Eric's weapons were more accurate and his shotgun held more rounds, so it does kind of make sense. I think Dylan was more into making others suffer. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dylan was more vocal towards his victims. His exchanges with Kirklin, Shnurr, Shoels, and Todd are all pretty sadistic. He was definitely toying with them all. Sometimes I think he let John Savage go just because he could, not because he liked him or cared.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeFri May 29, 2015 3:50 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
Thanks for posting this Sabratha. I had no idea Dylan only killed two people on his own. It kind of goes against my belief that Dylan was the more violent of the two. Then again Eric's weapons were more accurate and his shotgun held more rounds, so it does kind of make sense. I think Dylan was more into making others suffer. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dylan was more vocal towards his victims. His exchanges with Kirklin, Shnurr, Shoels, and Todd are all pretty sadistic. He was definitely toying with them all. Sometimes I think he let John Savage go just because he could, not because he liked him or cared.

Actually he killed 3 on his own, Lauren Townsed was by all evidence already dead or dying when the stray bullet from Harris grazed her body.

Dylan seems to have been more vocal. He asked the god question, he had at least 2 longer conversations with Todd and Savage. And taht's the two conversations we know about, cause people lived to tell what occured.

Eric was more quick to act, taunted people but it seems to have been much shorter exchanges (peekaboo!) and overall he was more interested in shooting at cops outside than talking with students in the library. The nose wound probably slowed him down later.

browneyes11 wrote:
Sabratha wrote:

Eric also almost killed Bree Pasquale, but Dylan distracted him in the last moment by asking him to come round and see Isaiah and Kechter.

In her statement she states that Dylan said to Eric "Shoot her" and Eric responded "No, we're going to blow up the school anyway"
then Eric becomes distracted and goes to shoot Isaiah and Kechter. I don't think he was going to kill her, I think he was just fucking with her head.
Plus I think he had just broken his nose. I'm sure a broken nose can be distracting.

That and the fact that Eric broke/wounded his nose shortly before with the recoil from the shot that killed Cassie. The fact taht Eric was hurt and seemingly a bit confused saved Bree's life. Then before Eric got himself togeaher, Dylan distracted him by asking Eric to come look at Shoels and Kechter. So Eric went to Dylan and lost his focus on Bree.

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Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Empty
PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeFri May 29, 2015 1:25 pm

Depending on how bad his nose was broken. If blood was pouring he would only have his mouth to breathe through, if blood goes into his mouth that makes it harder to breathe especially when your on such high adrenalin, that could of fatigued Eric quickly.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeFri May 29, 2015 5:35 pm

How many students were just injured in the library?

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeFri May 29, 2015 9:12 pm

Strictly speaking, 12 were injured in the Library:

Jennifer Doyle
Stephen Eubanks
Makai Hall
Patrick Ireland
Mark Kintgen
Lisa Kreutz
Nicole Nowlen
Kacey Reugsegger
Jeanna Park
Valeen Schnurr
Danny Steepleton
Evan Todd

pages 011869-011870 [Evidence Volume 2]

* Patricia Nielson & Brian Anderson were injured outside of the Library


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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeSat May 30, 2015 4:08 pm

Rohrbough's parents had another ibvestigation launched years later about who killed Daniel because they believed he may have been killed by a cop accidentally, but it was found that Eric mortally wounded him in the stomach.
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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeSat May 30, 2015 6:23 pm

Eric definitely had more accurate guns, this is given.
I don't know if Eric ever went hunting with his father, or if Neil Harris even had a gun, though I assume a military man would have at least his service pistol.
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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeSun May 31, 2015 10:23 am

Sabratha wrote:
Nirvana92 wrote:
Thanks for posting this Sabratha. I had no idea Dylan only killed two people on his own. It kind of goes against my belief that Dylan was the more violent of the two. Then again Eric's weapons were more accurate and his shotgun held more rounds, so it does kind of make sense. I think Dylan was more into making others suffer. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dylan was more vocal towards his victims. His exchanges with Kirklin, Shnurr, Shoels, and Todd are all pretty sadistic. He was definitely toying with them all. Sometimes I think he let John Savage go just because he could, not because he liked him or cared.

Actually he killed 3 on his own, Lauren Townsed was by all evidence already dead or dying when the stray bullet from Harris grazed her body.

Dylan seems to have been more vocal. He asked the god question, he had at least 2 longer conversations with Todd and Savage. And taht's the two conversations we know about, cause people lived to tell what occured.

Eric was more quick to act, taunted people but it seems to have been much shorter exchanges (peekaboo!) and overall he was more interested in shooting at cops outside than talking with students in the library. The nose wound probably slowed him down later.

browneyes11 wrote:
Sabratha wrote:

Eric also almost killed Bree Pasquale, but Dylan distracted him in the last moment by asking him to come round and see Isaiah and Kechter.

In her statement she states that Dylan said to Eric "Shoot her" and Eric responded "No, we're going to blow up the school anyway"
then Eric becomes distracted and goes to shoot Isaiah and Kechter. I don't think he was going to kill her, I think he was just fucking with her head.
Plus I think he had just broken his nose. I'm sure a broken nose can be distracting.

That and the fact that Eric broke/wounded his nose shortly before with the recoil from the shot that killed Cassie. The fact taht Eric was hurt and seemingly a bit confused saved Bree's life. Then before Eric got himself togeaher, Dylan distracted him by asking Eric to come look at Shoels and Kechter. So Eric went to Dylan and lost his focus on Bree.


Youre right, she was more than likely gone by the point Eric shot her. How many times did Dylan actually shoot Lauren? The extended library call where he can be heard shooting her is horrifically viscous, especially since he didnt even know her or the others under the table. .
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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2015 6:46 pm

I have added Jenn's "wounded victims list" to the opening post, I hope it will help clear some stuff up.

I'd still like to know who shot which surviving victim with what gun though :/ I'll later try to see if Krabbe is of any help in this respect.

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeWed Jul 22, 2015 4:48 am

One more thing... seems Eric killed and wounded the vast majority of female victims.

Lauren Townsend was an exception, but she was killed by Dylan's shotgun spread when he fired blindly under the table.

Was this just random (most females were shot at long range and Eric had a better ranged weapon), or did Eric specificlaly chose to target female victims given a choice?

Or perhaps I'm doing this the wrong way? Perhaps Eric was happy to fire at each and any target he came upon, while Dylan specifically avoided firing at female targets?

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PostSubject: Re: Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned)   Victims, who was shot with which weapon? (grisly thread, be warned) Icon_minitimeTue Mar 31, 2020 4:38 pm

The Zero Hour doc always made me believe it was Dylan who killed Sanders
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