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 Eric's Therapy Sessions

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thelmar

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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:19 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Maybe he was awake until  late  for preparations
And decided to take them before going 2 bed?
How many hours does it take until the drugs are  gone from the system?( Sry if my English sucks)

From what I understand, in order for a blood test to show that you have a therapeutic level of the drug in your system, you need to be on the drug for a few weeks.

That is, you can't just take a pill of Luvox for the first time ever and take a blood test hours later and have it be at a therapeutic level. You have to take the same dose repeatedly over many days (two to three weeks from what I've read) before it will be at a therapeutic level because the drug builds up in the body over time.

To me, this means that Eric had to have been taking the same dose of medication for a few weeks before the attack. If so, that doesn't seem like he was misusing it.

Again, I don't claim any expertise in this topic. This is something I've always puzzled over and have tried to learn as much as I can, but pharmacology is not my background so it's possible I don't understand things as clearly as I think I do LOL

And, your English is fine Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:03 pm

The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:11 pm

The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

By that time, people, even TV reporters, already knew that the killers were wearing trench coats from witness reports - cue the whole "trench coat mafia" hysteria in the following days. What strikes me, however, is that the Harrises did not reveal the vast amount of way more important stuff that led them to realize that Eric was involved with the shooting. I mean, the guy left a f...cking drawing with CHS, a bomb and the word "CLUE", they surely entered his room and found bomb and gun parts all over the place, and probably they played the Nixon tape. Why did they lie? What were they thinking in those frantic moments? They were extremely uncooperative when officers arrived, already on the defensive, while the Klebolds were much more forthcoming. Did the Harrises think that by hiding evidence, in the panic of the moment, that they could somehow "fix it all", still keep the situation under wraps as they had done many times in the past?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Wayne's call mentioning the TCM is definitely a curiosity. Genocidal plan is a bit strong. A murderous plan, for sure.

I figured some of their actions were because they didn't know he would commit suicide. What little we know of the Nixon tape doesn't mention that. So they would've thought he needed a defense.

Also I am not clear whether the gun barrel left in his room was from the shotgun or from the bb gun.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The coat thing befuddles me too. Because Nate called that day and said that the shooters had a black trenchcoat and Tom is trying to find Dylan’s . But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone? I also don’t know why Nate suspected it was dylan. That’s interesting and something no one really talks about

By that time, people, even TV reporters, already knew that the killers were wearing trench coats from witness reports - cue the whole "trench coat mafia" hysteria in the following days. What strikes me, however, is that the Harrises did not reveal the vast amount of way more important stuff that led them to realize that Eric was involved with the shooting. I mean, the guy left a f...cking drawing with CHS, a bomb and the word "CLUE", they surely entered his room and found bomb and gun parts all over the place, and probably they played the Nixon tape. Why did they lie? What were they thinking in those frantic moments? They were extremely uncooperative when officers arrived, already on the defensive, while the Klebolds were much more forthcoming. Did the Harrises think that by hiding evidence, in the panic of the moment, that they could somehow "fix it all", still keep the situation under wraps as they had done many times in the past?


It seems like Eric’s family had an inkling it could be him but Dylan’s family was dumbfounded

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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:59 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course

It was also mentioned by the attorney in the Taylor vs. Solvay lawsuit. I believe his name was DeCamp. He said Eric had figured out the mechanism of the drug and would double and triple his dose, go off and on it to fuel his rage. But if this was true, why did Eric have a therapeutic level of the drug in his body when he died? And from what little I know about these medications, you need to be on them for a few weeks before they reach a therapeutic level. I could be wrong on that but that's what I've gathered in my research.

Regardless as to whether or not Eric wasn't taking the drugs properly, they very clearly weren't doing anything to reduce his aggression.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will. Take that with a grain of salt of course"

Brooks can claim everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:52 am

@Rebbie556 wrote:
@lizpuff  "Brooks was the one that claimed Eric went on and off the pill at his will.  Take that with a grain of salt of course"

Brooks can claim everything.


AND he pretty much has over the years. Rolling Eyes Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:28 am

Why didn't Brooks Brown tell Eric, hey bro you have to keep on your meds, otherwise you won't feel right. He should've said that or something similar. He should've encouraged him to keep on his meds.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why didn't Brooks Brown tell Eric, hey bro you have to keep on your meds, otherwise you won't feel right. He should've said that or something similar. He should've encouraged him to keep on his meds.

Because Brooks was not friends with Eric. No matter what he wrote or says he just wasn't. They were not close. And even if they were close Brooks did not care enough about Eric to ever say anything like that to him. On top of that if Brooks did say that, knowing what we do know about Eric, do you think he would have listened?

And this is all based on the assumption that Brooks was telling the truth about the meds in the first place

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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".

I think the Harris family definitely knew more than they let on. It is odd that Wayne would call 911 and tell them he thought Eric was involved. It's a very serious assumption to make that your son is involved in a shooting just because he associated with the TCM or wore a trench coat. That's not exactly a light call to make to 911. He'd have to have been very sure that Eric was somehow involved.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:07 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The question of who actually prescribed medication to Eric has always puzzled me, like one of the many unsolved mysteries of the Columbine incident. The answer could be as simple as his family doctor, perhaps on the advice of Dr. Albert, both of whom, not being psychiatrists, couldn't have fully known the effects of the drugs.

Another question is why the Harrises ended up with Albert, even though he seems to deal exclusively (and not particularly well, either) with divorcing couples. He wouldn't be my first pick for a juvenile delinquent with aggression issues. We know that they inquired about the whole trench coat thing and Albert shrugged it off as "just a coat." It makes you wonder what actually went on in these sessions and if Albert listened to Eric at all, because as we know Eric adopted the coat as he became more and more marginalized, losing friends, his behavior becoming more outlandish. Even if Albert couldn't conceive or detect Eric's mass murder plans, he should have at least recognized that the boy was becoming lonelier and weirder by the week.

I also believe that the Harris have lied about the extent of their knowledge of Eric's issues. They said both in the Diversion files and to Tom Mauser that they never witnessed Eric's angry behavior but we know that to be false: Sue Klebold wrote that well before the van incident, Eric had an outburst at a soccer match and his parents whisked him away to calm him down, as if it was something that they were used to. They knew he was making bombs. They likely knew of his threats to Brooks Brown as well.
Even in the very morning of 4/20, they lied: I hardly think that Wayne's reason for thinking Eric might be involved in the shooting was just him being part of the Trench Coat Mafia (which he wasn't). A more truthful answer would've been "well, we know he's nuts, he's made death threats before, he likes to build bombs, our house smells of gasoline, we've found gun parts in his bedroom, an ominous drawing in our living room and, let me think, oh yes, an audio recording on the kitchen table of him exposing a genocidal plan".

I think the Harris family definitely knew more than they let on. It is odd that Wayne would call 911 and tell them he thought Eric was involved. It's a very serious assumption to make that your son is involved in a shooting just because he associated with the TCM or wore a trench coat. That's not exactly a light call to make to 911.  He'd have to have been very sure that Eric was somehow involved.

I think that the following reconstruction is more likely than not: both parents left the house for work early in the morning, early enough that Eric could be joined by Dylan and the pair of them could prepare the last equipment for NBK undisturbed, plus filming the last basement tape in the living room. Eric also scattered various clues and artifacts around the house, for either his parents or the police to find: we know about bullets, gun parts and bombs in his bedroom, his journal again in the bedroom, a drawing with the words CHS, "CLUE" and a bomb with a lit fuse, the Nixon tape and a piece of paper with a pattern of the assault.
Then Wayne and Kathy, in some unspecified time after 11:19, learn about the ongoing attack. How? TV coverage started at about 12:00, but word-of-mouth was spreading around Littleton like wildfire since the early stages of the incident. Did someone call them, like Nate Dykeman with the Klebolds? We'll never know unless they ever speak out. Still, they both rush back to the home where they are joined by Kathy's sister and, very tellingly, the first thing they do is to call a lawyer to come at their house as soon as he can. They already anticipate that they will need aggressive legal defense, when still nothing is publicly known about the incident at all. At about 1:00 PM, Wayne calls 911. What was he thinking? Was he advised to do so by his lawyer? We can assume that the police arrive after 1:00 PM (there would be no reason to call 911 if officers were already at the scene). The Harrises prove extremely uncooperative; the lawyer arrives soon after they have been kicked out of the house and says to police that if they arrest Eric, they must not interrogate him without the lawyer's presence. Eric had been dead for nearly an hour, but of course nobody knew back then.

I think that as soon as they arrived at the house, they found any combination of the clues Eric left earlier, they added the history of aggression and delinquency of their son, and realized that heavy shit was about to hit the fan. Considering Wayne's reaction to the earlier incidents, that is, to defend Eric at all costs and to try and drag him out "clean" out of the messes he made, I'm led to believe that in the frantic, panicked minutes that spanned the Harrises' arrival at their house and the police's, the Harrises desperately convinced themselves that they could still "fix it" for their son, somehow, and once again shield him from the law. I think that the most important passage of Wayne's call is the question he asks, "have they picked up anybody yet?". I think that the whole purpose of the 911 call was not to advise authorities that his son might be involved, but to try and learn if they had already caught him. In order to do so, Wayne had to say something to make his call believable so he settled for the most innocuous and less-incriminating excuse he could conjure, his son being part of the TCM (which he wasn't).

I find it fascinating that the parents' istinct to protect their kid emerged even when they knew that Eric was out killing people in a rampage.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:30 pm

Since Eric's dad was in military I think he was concerned more about his image since he worked for the government. He might have told Eric to man up when got emotional reason why Eric thought that showing feelings is weakness.
Second is Eric felt like he wasn't good enough because he felt he disappointed his dad he put pressure on himself to succeed.

I can see Mr. Harris having the pants on in the household.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:13 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] im surprised that he was honest even when he admitted to lie alot. His parents filled the file too but they didn't really know alot about him. They ticked maybe 3 things?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:26 pm

"But dylan had 2. So we were both of the coats gone?" oh God now I see why Eric literally sunk in that Trenchcoat... Maybe Dylan gave him his 2nd Trenchcoat?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's Therapy Sessions   Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:09 am

One thing for sure though if I was Eric's parents, I would've sued Dr. Albert, because clearly he wasn't helping their son.
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