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Littlelo
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 27, 2017 4:27 am

[quote="Littlelo"]
silentprocess wrote:
. I also found it strange he would willingly tell girls he was picked on

He could of wanted a girl to be nice to hima nd comfort him, girls are usually nice like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 27, 2017 5:05 am

E&D watched a lot of D movies/soft core semi pornos together. Like Cavegirl Island.

He wanted to be a contradiction. He wanted people to pour over his journals and ask questions.
He also said he hates liars but that HE could lie and he was good at it.

Also back in the late 90's it wasn't as PC. A lot of words you used back then just be be edgy or "funny" wouldn't fly now.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 27, 2017 9:47 pm

He told the girls about being picked on because teachers didn't give a damn? Maybe he was looking for help before it was too late...
No one's seems to take responsibility there for bullying .Maybe it's not only E&D's fault ?everyone who knew the boys said they were normal kids. How many students said they were bullied?
Btw. Is Sue Klebold really here?
"It happened unexpected, they were just psychopaths" exactly....(I do not condone what the boys did)
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 27, 2017 9:59 pm

I don't imagine Sue is on this board/I hope not...

I often want to apologize to Yumeko every time I mention E&D.... I don't condone, I PROMISE, promise. If I ever did again meet someone associated with the case in person I would keep my lips quite sealed.

There was a huge bullying issue at Columbine for a long time. A kid got his hair set on fire and no one did anything about it. I'm sure there were far more instances than that.

Maybe when E&D talked about being picked on and feeling isolated and disrespected there was always that angry element to it and it fueled their rage but when he talked to others about it he could be more vulnerable?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 27, 2017 10:29 pm

Maybe Eric talked about being picked on to different girls because it was just a normal occurrence in the school and a regular topic of conversation between people. That would be an even sadder thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 21, 2017 6:36 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:



I always assumed the girls had just picked up the same strange vibe, a gut feeling that something wasn't right with Eric, and they couldn't place a finger on it enough to explain it.  So they just said it was things like "He was to quiet, wasn't friendly, just wasn't my taste, " etc.  

It was just weird that almost every girl he was interested in would have almost the same reaction to him.
It doesn't surprise me. Most of us have known boys like Eric and Dylan at some point. They just don't know how to act around girls and it chases them away.


One boy in high school I will never forget. His name was Jason(Hi if you ever read this!!). I was a junior, he was a sophomore. Instant crush the moment I laid eyes on him. He was very shy and only had a couple friends, and they were casual friends at best. He wasn't easy to get to know and I was the opposite of him, very social, many friends, etc. Over time it got to the point where I'd practically drool at the sight of him. Later that year we wound up in a class together and after talking to him a bit off and on, asked him if he'd study with me after school. It was perfect timing(for me anyways). I had recently broke up with my BF....and my fantasies of Jason were in overdrive.

I went to his house after school one day....and it all came crashing down. He couldn't communicate properly and would barely look me in the eye. It was very uncomfortable. I left and we barely talked at all the rest of the school year. Senior year I tried talking to him again during lunch one day and nothing had improved. I gave up and never talked to him again.

I felt bad for him. Still do actually. I knew he liked me but he just couldn't handle it. I always wondered if he knew how close he was to having me.


Littlelo wrote:
They both knew they had nothing to lose by that point and if they tried to make a move on someone they liked and were denied, it wouldn't matter in a couple days anyway. That makes me think they were just so painfully shy or awkward with girls, it was not something they were capable of.
I agree. They 'froze' when it counts.

The whole issue with girls is one of the tragedies underneath the real tragedy of Columbine.

They were lonely. Socially awkward....shy....depressed....and lonely. While Columbine is very complex, I am in the group who believes this whole nightmare could've been avoided if they had simply got girlfriends. It may sound shallow but they really needed them and it would've done wonders with their confidence/self esteem.

They had a LOT of built up anger. It just kept growing and growing. It needed release. If they had girlfriends, instead of shooting off guns dreaming of a school massacre, they're planning on getting to third base and a home run. Instead of filming themselves venting rage at humanity in general, they're making out with their girlfriends at the movies.

Dylan's rage over his friend getting a GF is telling. IMO it comes across as envy more than it does anything else.

Speaking of them having "nothing to lose".....

The lack of an obvious sexual component to the Columbine massacre has always intrigued me. At zero hour....they're temporary gods. As you said, they've got nothing to lose. They'll be dead later that day. They can do as they please....which could've easily included rape. Not only is there no rape, girls weren't targeted as a specific group like you see in some other massacres. It became random. There's no outward method to the underlying madness.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Tracy wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:



I always assumed the girls had just picked up the same strange vibe, a gut feeling that something wasn't right with Eric, and they couldn't place a finger on it enough to explain it.  So they just said it was things like "He was to quiet, wasn't friendly, just wasn't my taste, " etc.  

It was just weird that almost every girl he was interested in would have almost the same reaction to him.
It doesn't surprise me. Most of us have known boys like Eric and Dylan at some point. They just don't know how to act around girls and it chases them away.


One boy in high school I will never forget. His name was Jason(Hi if you ever read this!!). I was a junior, he was a sophomore. Instant crush the moment I laid eyes on him. He was very shy and only had a couple friends, and they were casual friends at best. He wasn't easy to get to know and I was the opposite of him, very social, many friends, etc. Over time it got to the point where I'd practically drool at the sight of him. Later that year we wound up in a class together and after talking to him a bit off and on, asked him if he'd study with me after school. It was perfect timing(for me anyways). I had recently broke up with my BF....and my fantasies of Jason were in overdrive.

I went to his house after school one day....and it all came crashing down. He couldn't communicate properly and would barely look me in the eye. It was very uncomfortable. I left and we barely talked at all the rest of the school year. Senior year I tried talking to him again during lunch one day and nothing had improved. I gave up and never talked to him again.

I felt bad for him. Still do actually. I knew he liked me but he just couldn't handle it. I always wondered if he knew how close he was to having me.


Littlelo wrote:
They both knew they had nothing to lose by that point and if they tried to make a move on someone they liked and were denied, it wouldn't matter in a couple days anyway. That makes me think they were just so painfully shy or awkward with girls, it was not something they were capable of.
I agree. They 'froze' when it counts.

The whole issue with girls is one of the tragedies underneath the real tragedy of Columbine.

They were lonely. Socially awkward....shy....depressed....and lonely. While Columbine is very complex, I am in the group who believes this whole nightmare could've been avoided if they had simply got girlfriends. It may sound shallow but they really needed them and it would've done wonders with their confidence/self esteem.

They had a LOT of built up anger. It just kept growing and growing. It needed release. If they had girlfriends, instead of shooting off guns dreaming of a school massacre, they're planning on getting to third base and a home run. Instead of filming themselves venting rage at humanity in general, they're making out with their girlfriends at the movies.

Dylan's rage over his friend getting a GF is telling. IMO it comes across as envy more than it does anything else.

Speaking of them having "nothing to lose".....

The lack of an obvious sexual component to the Columbine massacre has always intrigued me. At zero hour....they're temporary gods. As you said, they've got nothing to lose. They'll be dead later that day. They can do as they please....which could've easily included rape. Not only is there no rape, girls weren't targeted as a specific group like you see in some other massacres. It became random. There's no outward method to the underlying madness.


I just can't get behind the whole "A girlfriend would have saved them" thing.  IF either had actually found a steady girl, it may have very temporarily made them feel somewhat better about themselves for a short period of time. BUT them being in a relationship would NOT have stopped the mental issues both clearly suffered from. More so Dylan then Eric in my opinion.

Any relationship they had would have likely ended badly.  Dylan was in love with the idea of being in love with the PERFECT girl. If he had found a girlfriend I doubt the relationship would have lasted when she didn't meet his expectations of his Halcyon dream girl. I think Dylan was likely in love with a figment of his own imagination.

Eric dated off and on, and none of those worked out. You can't say it was the girls fault, because the common denominator in those few failed relationships was Eric. He was very hotheaded, very petty minded, held grudges over tiny things, etc. Some of the girls who dated him gave the impression that he was scary. What that means is anyone's guess. While other girls who he tried to date said he was very persistent, the type who didn't take "NO" for an answer.

So I think it would be safe to say that little Eric would have been a very demanding, possibly a very controlling boyfriend if things had gotten past a random movie date here and there and had actually made it to a real relationship. Add in the fact that he had some serious self esteem issues, with a healthy dose of depression and equal parts of anger, and you have a recipe that is just a bad mix altogether.

If Eric and Dylan had gotten the help they both needed then that would be a different story altogether. But in their current mental state at the time, no relationship would have saved them for long.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 21, 2017 10:42 pm

Both of the boys would have had serious issues had they gotten into any long term relationship.

I do think they were both in a way very self concious and maybe having doubts about making moves on girls before NBK. They had nothing to lose, so why didn't they try anything with Susan and Robyn respectfully? I still contend (hearsay from Dylan's friends etc) that Robyn was pretty into Dylan and would have at least fancied a kiss from him, but they didn't try anything. Did they not want their friends to have those kinds of memories of them? Would you want your story of sex on prom night to be with someone who commits a mass murder a few days later?

It's annoying though that not getting any or not a lot in HS and college is stigmatized. Some people I know didn't get into serious relationships or lose their V card until AFTER college and were for all intents and purposes kind, hard working and not bad looking at all.. it just didn't come easily to them

Here is an interesting article I found that talks about this topic, from Jeff Kass.

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He says Eric Harris was this wildly popular student, especially with the girls -- that he's dating or having sex with all these girls at school. And I totally disagree with that. I don't find any attribution in his book or in the end notes for that. I don't know where it comes from. I'd like to know. And he says similar things about Dylan. He says Dylan had all these friends, and that he was well-connected at school and at least was more popular than we thought he was. And I don't know where he comes up with that, either.

"Now, maybe you can find a study showing that if you have five close friends, you're a normal high school student in America," he goes on. "But even if you could prove that Dylan had five close friends, that doesn't mean he was a normal high school student, because Dylan didn't believe that himself. Dylan was blinded to friends by his depression, and Eric was blinded to any friends he had by his rage. So I think you're in this academic situation. You could say, 'Gee, Eric and Dylan, you had a lot of friends, and you lived these great middle-class lives.' But that didn't get through to them. They thought their lives were miserable. So it's a classic case of perception versus reality."

As for Kass' perceptions, he says, "I think both Eric and Dylan died virgins. And even though it's sort of a weird topic to get into -- their sex lives -- I really think it's illustrative of how well-connected, or not connected, they were to the school community. I feel they were outcasts.



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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 23, 2017 5:26 pm

666 views *X-Files theme* alien alien
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 4:03 am

Another interesting thing I think, no one really talks from what I have seen, maybe because it can be weird, considering he was 17 at the time, but Dylan's shame in sex and his desires. Which seem VERY vanilla... at least to me.

He wasn't raised religious and in AMR Sue said she taught Byron and Dylan about safe and ethical sex, which is more than my parents did. My mom said NEVER have it because you will get pregnant and die and my dad said when I get to college just use condoms.....

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PostSubject: @ShadowedGoddess    Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:36 am

It was probally because he felt more comfortable venting about it to girls than with male friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:08 pm

VoDKaComeHere wrote:
It was probally because he felt more comfortable venting about it to girls than with male friends.


I agree. In my opinion Eric seemed to be closer to him mom, and even talked to her about not being able to find a date for prom. I think he was likely used to having a sympathetic female ear. So he probably did feel more at ease talking about his issues with a girl.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:11 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
My mom said NEVER have it because you will get pregnant and die and my dad said when I get to college just use condoms.....

Damn that was advice on very different ends of the spectrum! Shocked Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:18 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My mom said NEVER have it because you will get pregnant and die and my dad said when I get to college just use condoms.....

Damn that was advice on very different ends of the spectrum! Shocked Haha


lol! I was quite the conflicted teen when it came to sex.

Another reason I sometimes wonder why people say because Eric and Dylan were virgins they never had a first kiss, because they didn't have a serious girlfriend and Dylan was shy...

I was completely shy, inept, not very attractive and had no idea what I was doing and I kissed 3 boys before I was 16. No real boyfriend until I was 22... lots of kissing before then though.

All the making out in the world though would not stop the massacre. How nice would it be if that could stop violence?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:28 pm

No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:34 pm

Littlelo wrote:
No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.

Especially with Dylan, I know Shadowed has joked if she sneezed wrong he would have an issue but honestly, she's right... I think Dylan would have found an issue and pushed her away.

It's good neither of them had girlfriends on 4/20, look at what happened to their friends. What kind of hell would those girls have gone through on top of the 99% chance of being in school that day and seeing your boyfriend running around the school laughing and shooting people?

I think there is a YA novel about that.. not Eric and Dylan but a school shooting where the guy had a girlfriend. I read about it when I was reading about the movie April Showers, which is about Columbine too.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:37 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.

Especially with Dylan, I know Shadowed has joked if she sneezed wrong he would have an issue but honestly, she's right... I think Dylan would have found an issue and pushed her away.

It's good neither of them had girlfriends on 4/20, look at what happened to their friends. What kind of hell would those girls have gone through on top of the 99% chance of being in school that day and seeing your boyfriend running around the school laughing and shooting people?

I think there is a YA novel about that.. not Eric and Dylan but a school shooting where the guy had a girlfriend. I read about it when I was reading about the movie April Showers, which is about Columbine too.

I think about that possibility a lot. I'm sure Robyn and Susan were majorly affected as they were the last female to spend time with each of them before the shooting, and neither of them were even dating.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:38 pm

I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:40 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.

After Randy Stair I seriously entertained this idea too, but I think I read something in his journal that ruled it out for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:44 pm

Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.

After Randy Stair I seriously entertained this idea too, but I think I read something in his journal that ruled it out for me.

I think his Halcyon girl was one specific girl but he had crushes on a bunch throughout the year.

I wonder if he got crushes very easy at some point. Like a "Dylan, you dropped your pen' smile and Dylan was all like "Ah! She's the one, she's wearing a green shirt, my favorite color. I am in LOVE!"
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:47 pm

Honestly I was like that in middle school and even early high school. When you're young you tend to overthink everything everyone says and romanticize the smallest gestures. I can see both E&D being like that, especially Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:50 pm

Littlelo wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
No one was going to be good enough for either of them. They would have found an issue. And even if they had found a girlfriend it wouldn't have changed the outcome. Eric didn't even stick around long enough to see if things could work out with Susan, they hung out one time. He just wanted to see if he could get any action before his inevitable death.

Especially with Dylan, I know Shadowed has joked if she sneezed wrong he would have an issue but honestly, she's right... I think Dylan would have found an issue and pushed her away.

It's good neither of them had girlfriends on 4/20, look at what happened to their friends. What kind of hell would those girls have gone through on top of the 99% chance of being in school that day and seeing your boyfriend running around the school laughing and shooting people?

I think there is a YA novel about that.. not Eric and Dylan but a school shooting where the guy had a girlfriend. I read about it when I was reading about the movie April Showers, which is about Columbine too.

I think about that possibility a lot. I'm sure Robyn and Susan were majorly affected as they were the last female to spend time with each of them before the shooting, and neither of them were even dating.

I agree. I think even Devon was affected by being close to Dylan in some ways. They were platonic but seemed close. She even said on prom night she wanted to let him know what a good friend he was and how much he meant to her.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric's dates   Eric's dates - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Dec 28, 2017 1:46 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I still can't shake the feeling that Dylan's Halcyon girl was likely just a figment of his very overactive imagination.

After Randy Stair I seriously entertained this idea too, but I think I read something in his journal that ruled it out for me.

I think his Halcyon girl was one specific girl but he had crushes on a bunch throughout the year.

I wonder if he got crushes very easy at some point. Like a "Dylan, you dropped your pen' smile and Dylan was all like "Ah! She's the one, she's wearing a green shirt, my favorite color. I am in LOVE!"

That really sounds like something he would write, love in all caps and all lol!
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