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 Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:31 pm

What do you think of CVA's "kill with me and I'll die with you" theory? He mentions it in several videos and I've seen others who agree with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Jenn wrote:
Eric was 2nd best to Dylan. He didn't consider him his best friend. That would have been Zach Heckler. And Dylan was devastated when Zach got a girlfriend and didn't spend as much time with him anymore. Even though he still had Eric, he didn't want to be around Eric, he wanted to be around Zach.

Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

And I have yet to see any proof that the shooting was Eric's idea. I'm not talking about who did all the planning for it, I'm talking about which one of them went up to the other and said "we should do a shooting". I'm convinced that it was Dylan who did that because there is actual proof that he thought of going on a shooting and naming that shooting "NBK" way before Eric ever mentioned anything about a shooting.

Eric had a temper and was angry all of the time and Dylan used that to manipulate him into going on a shooting with him because that's what he wanted to do so that he could finally off himself. And honestly, I don't know why Dylan's Mother ignores that. Why she still thinks that Dylan was just mentally ill and got swept into it.

It's so damn obvious she did not even know her own son. Why she seems to find it impossible and won't even consider the idea of Dylan actually being the one to think this up is beyond me because the evidence is there. She just decided to ignore that and make it all about mental illness on Dylan's part and Eric being a psychopath. And that is not what the evidence left behind is saying. Not at all.

I agree. I think Dylan fooled people a lot better.

I bet it was a conversation that Dylan started and Eric ran with it.

Even in Eric's journals, Dylan mentions his self awareness and Eric writes "V and I are the only ones with self awareness' Dylan calls people Zombies, Eric follows suit in a way.

One of them liked cigars. Eric smoked a cigarette like you puff on a cigar or if you're trying to act like your smoking a cigarette but you don't want to.



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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:33 pm

Littlelo wrote:
What do you think of CVA's "kill with me and I'll die with you" theory? He mentions it in several videos and I've seen others who agree with it.


I can get behind that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:50 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:51 pm

Do you think it is JUST the journal entries that made people feel this way about Dylan, him being the follower and meek?

What is it about him that makes the general public and even some of Dylans friends think that Eric was the criminal mastermind?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 12:53 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.

I think Eric was actually jealous of Dylan in a way. Dylan was tall, had more friends etc. SO its not a huge stretch to think he did try to act like Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:02 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Do you think it is JUST the journal entries that made people feel this way about Dylan, him being the follower and meek?

What is it about him that makes the general public and even some of Dylans friends think that Eric was the criminal mastermind?

I think the journals are a big part of it, but not all of it.

Judy Brown has been repeating the "Dylan was a follower" theory since the shooting happened. And if I recall, others said that they were more surprised that Dylan was involved than they were about Eric. It might also be in some interviews from the 11k

None of this means Dylan was a follower, per se. In my mind, it just means he was more introverted than Eric and more tactful about his rage. This made it much more shocking once people learned he was involved.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:07 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.

I think Eric was actually jealous of Dylan in a way. Dylan was tall, had more friends etc. SO its not a huge stretch to think he did try to act like Dylan.

If he could be more like Dylan maybe he'd get more friends and fit in more so to speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:08 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Do you think it is JUST the journal entries that made people feel this way about Dylan, him being the follower and meek?

What is it about him that makes the general public and even some of Dylans friends think that Eric was the criminal mastermind?


I think it was mainly Eric attitude. Almost everyone who knew him said he was pretty much a hothead. That he was just plain out mean. He would get pissy about anything and then you ended up on one of his lists and that was it, he hated you from then on.

Eric was seemingly only nice to girls if he liked them, or was trying to date them etc.  Most the guys they hung around were more Dylan's friends, and Eric had issues with a lot of them. Other then Chris Morris who seemed to be more Eric's buddy then Dylan's.

Also Eric's angry out bursts probably didn't help, but when you pair it up with his hate filled journals most people stop there and say "Yep he did it, it was his idea" They never look deeper then the surface, and on the surface Eric tried to be a badass who didn't care about anything. BUT for those who have dug down you can see that for the most part it was just a ruse to hide behind.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:08 pm

Littlelo wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Do you think it is JUST the journal entries that made people feel this way about Dylan, him being the follower and meek?

What is it about him that makes the general public and even some of Dylans friends think that Eric was the criminal mastermind?

I think the journals are a big part of it, but not all of it.

Judy Brown has been repeating the "Dylan was a follower" theory since the shooting happened. And if I recall, others said that they were more surprised that Dylan was involved than they were about Eric. It might also be in some interviews from the 11k

None of this means Dylan was a follower, per se. In my mind, it just means he was more introverted than Eric and more tactful about his rage. This made it much more shocking once people learned he was involved.

A lot of it probably comes from the fact that yes he was more tactful and people knew him longer and Dylan seemed to try to get along with people more than Eric.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:13 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Do you think it is JUST the journal entries that made people feel this way about Dylan, him being the follower and meek?

What is it about him that makes the general public and even some of Dylans friends think that Eric was the criminal mastermind?


I think it was mainly Eric attitude. Almost everyone who knew him said he was pretty much a hothead. That he was just plain out mean. He would get pissy about anything and then you ended up on one of his lists and that was it, he hated you from then on.

Eric was seemingly only nice to girls if he liked them, or was trying to date them etc.  Most the guys they hung around were more Dylan's friends, and Eric had issues with a lot of them. Other then Chris Morris who seemed to be more Eric's buddy then Dylan's.

Also Eric's angry out bursts probably didn't help, but when you pair it up with his hate filled journals most people stop there and say "Yep he did it, it was his idea" They never look deeper then the surface, and on the surface Eric tried to be a badass who didn't care about anything. BUT for those who have dug down you can see that for the most part it was just a ruse to hide behind.

I can't add anything Smile I completely agree
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:14 pm

What would Judy Brown know? I mean seriously, Dylan hadn't been "best friends" with her son since they were in Kindergarten. Sure they had classes together and talked in school and maybe ate lunch together once in awhile, but Brooks wasn't even apart of their group of friends and Eric wasn't friends with Brooks for nearly 2 years.

Judy barely even knew Eric and her family wasn't as close to the Klebold's as she makes it out to be. And I still don't believe Dylan gave Brooks Eric's website. I really do think Brooks' brother is the one who came across it. Dylan was a lot closer with Eric than Brooks. Why would he go behind his back and give Brooks a link to a website? That makes no sense and I get tired of constantly seeing the Browns in the middle of this Columbine stuff just because Brooks was friends with Dylan when they were boy scouts together over 10 years prior. Yet there they are in the middle of every single interview and documentary.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:18 pm

I also don't believe Dylan gave Brooks the web address. He was a part of the rebel missions that Eric bragged about online. Why would he risk getting in trouble for them?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Jenn wrote:
That makes no sense and I get tired of constantly seeing the Browns in the middle of this Columbine stuff just because Brooks was friends with Dylan when they were boy scouts together over 10 years prior. Yet there they are in the middle of every single interview and documentary.


I think the Brown's were mainly included at first because of them having previously reported Eric. Judy seems to be the only one who played up the "Oh my baby Brooks was friends with Dylan" angle. While Randy has always came from the angle of "We reported this kid and NOTHING was done about it!"

Randy has always seemed more angry and distrustful of the way Columbine was handled. From Jeffco not following through on the reports that could have stopped it, to them then lying about it and going after Brooks as a way to cover up their shitty police work.  Although they did seem to stay front and center with anything Columbine related ever since. But for some reason I can stomach Randy far better then his wife or son.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:44 pm

Jenn wrote:
What would Judy Brown know? I mean seriously, Dylan hadn't been "best friends" with her son since they were in Kindergarten. Sure they had classes together and talked in school and maybe ate lunch together once in awhile, but Brooks wasn't even apart of their group of friends and Eric wasn't friends with Brooks for nearly 2 years.

Judy barely even knew Eric and her family wasn't as close to the Klebold's as she makes it out to be. And I still don't believe Dylan gave Brooks Eric's website. I really do think Brooks' brother is the one who came across it. Dylan was a lot closer with Eric than Brooks. Why would he go behind his back and give Brooks a link to a website? That makes no sense and I get tired of constantly seeing the Browns in the middle of this Columbine stuff just because Brooks was friends with Dylan when they were boy scouts together over 10 years prior. Yet there they are in the middle of every single interview and documentary.

I believe Aaron gave Brooks the website too. Brooks even lied about being at Dylan's funeral. It was Zach who was there.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:45 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
That makes no sense and I get tired of constantly seeing the Browns in the middle of this Columbine stuff just because Brooks was friends with Dylan when they were boy scouts together over 10 years prior. Yet there they are in the middle of every single interview and documentary.


I think the Brown's were mainly included at first because of them having previously reported Eric. Judy seems to be the only one who played up the "Oh my baby Brooks was friends with Dylan" angle. While Randy has always came from the angle of "We reported this kid and NOTHING was done about it!"

Randy has always seemed more angry and distrustful of the way Columbine was handled. From Jeffco not following through on the reports that could have stopped it, to them then lying about it and going after Brooks as a way to cover up their shitty police work.  Although they did seem to stay front and center with anything Columbine related ever since. But for some reason I can stomach Randy far better then his wife or son.

Randy's motives seem more genuine to me. Like he's angry at the situation and wants to actually do something about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:46 pm

As far as Eric's journals go. I imagine Devon saw at some point what Dylan said about her in it and couldn't have been too happy.


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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 1:56 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
That makes no sense and I get tired of constantly seeing the Browns in the middle of this Columbine stuff just because Brooks was friends with Dylan when they were boy scouts together over 10 years prior. Yet there they are in the middle of every single interview and documentary.


I think the Brown's were mainly included at first because of them having previously reported Eric. Judy seems to be the only one who played up the "Oh my baby Brooks was friends with Dylan" angle. While Randy has always came from the angle of "We reported this kid and NOTHING was done about it!"

Randy has always seemed more angry and distrustful of the way Columbine was handled. From Jeffco not following through on the reports that could have stopped it, to them then lying about it and going after Brooks as a way to cover up their shitty police work.  Although they did seem to stay front and center with anything Columbine related ever since. But for some reason I can stomach Randy far better then his wife or son.

Randy's motives seem more genuine to me. Like he's angry at the situation and wants to actually do something about it.

EXACTLY! You can actually see the hate in his eyes when he talks about Jeffco. I truly think that Columbine effected him deeply. I mean they did what they thought was best, they turned in someone who was obviously making threats and they trusted the police to do their jobs. Then come to find out the police not only didn't do what most would have expected them to do(which likely could have stopped the deaths of 15 people)but then Jeffco tried to cover their own ass by saying the Brown's were lying about the reports, then going after Brooks as a way to discredit them in the media and public eye.

This is why I want Randy's book so bad. I want to see him roast Jeffco!
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 2:08 pm

It's weird because when we talk about Judy and Randy it's rarely as Brooks' parents as a couple and more about them as separate people who are connected to Columbine. Judy seems more emotional and wanting to insert herself into the drama, while Randy wants to hold people accountable and set the record straight.

I agree with whoever above said they trust Randy more. Because I do too.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 2:15 pm

Littlelo wrote:
It's weird because when we talk about Judy and Randy it's rarely as Brooks' parents as a couple and more about them as separate people who are connected to Columbine. Judy seems more emotional and wanting to insert herself into the drama, while Randy wants to hold people accountable and set the record straight.

I agree with whoever above said they trust Randy more. Because I do too.


I believe she barged into the police department demanding to see the basement tapes, she got mad at Sue for not reaching out to the families in the way she wanted and she showed up in Sue's damn driveway on 4/20 which I'm pretty sure I was on the subway listening to the audiobook of AMR for the first time and yelled "what the hell Judy" out loud.. probably got some looks.

I trust Randy FAR more than anyone else in that family.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 2:18 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
It's weird because when we talk about Judy and Randy it's rarely as Brooks' parents as a couple and more about them as separate people who are connected to Columbine. Judy seems more emotional and wanting to insert herself into the drama, while Randy wants to hold people accountable and set the record straight.

I agree with whoever above said they trust Randy more. Because I do too.


I believe she barged into the police department demanding to see the basement tapes, she got mad at Sue for not reaching out to the families in the way she wanted and she showed up in Sue's damn driveway on 4/20 which I'm pretty sure I was on the subway listening to the audiobook of AMR for the first time and yelled "what the hell Judy" out loud.. probably got some looks.

I trust Randy FAR more than anyone else in that family.


I do get the vibe that Judy is/was more of the "We told you so" type.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 2:21 pm

Also-- I know Sue says she and Tom decided against staying with them the night of 4/20 because she wanted to protect the Browns' safety/privacy, but I honestly think part of her just didn't trust Judy all that much to be discreet.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Littlelo wrote:
Also-- I know Sue says she and Tom decided against staying with them the night of 4/20 because she wanted to protect the Browns' safety/privacy, but I honestly think part of her just didn't trust Judy all that much to be discreet.


That may have played a roll as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:44 pm

[quote="ShadowedGoddess"]
Littlelo wrote:
Also-- I know Sue says she and Tom decided against staying with them the night of 4/20 because she wanted to protect the Browns' safety/privacy, but I honestly think part of her just didn't trust Judy all that much to be discreet.


That may have played a roll as well. [/quote

I think they fared much better going to their families house than the Browns.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:47 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
Also-- I know Sue says she and Tom decided against staying with them the night of 4/20 because she wanted to protect the Browns' safety/privacy, but I honestly think part of her just didn't trust Judy all that much to be discreet.


That may have played a roll as well. [/quote

I think they fared much better going to their families house than the Browns.



Agreed. For some reason I keep seeing Judy shoving hand fulls of Eric website printouts in their faces, saying "SEE I KNEW ALL ALONG ERIC WAS EVIL!"
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:49 pm

"....but I decided not to tell you about his pipe bombs and death threats until after he killed and injured a bunch of people!"

Ugh. Judy.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm

Littlelo wrote:
"....but I decided not to tell you about his pipe bombs and death threats until after he killed and injured a bunch of people!"

Ugh. Judy.


Well in Judy's defense, the Browns DID assume that Eric had indeed gotten into trouble over all that.

They just didn't know that the police hadn't followed up on their reports and that Eric an had gotten in trouble because of the van break in instead.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:55 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
"....but I decided not to tell you about his pipe bombs and death threats until after he killed and injured a bunch of people!"

Ugh. Judy.


Well in Judy's defense, the Browns DID assume that Eric had indeed gotten into trouble over all that.

They just didn't know that the police hadn't followed up on their reports and that Eric an had gotten in trouble because of the van break in instead.

Did she not know that Dylan also got into trouble?

I can understand that POV but I guess the assumption would be Dylan got into trouble for the Rebel Missions, but why not Zach, he was KiBBz
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 3:57 pm

Brooks says in his book that word went around the school that both Eric and Dylan were in trouble for something big but wouldn't say what it was.

Wouldn't the Browns have wondered why Dylan was also in trouble, since he supposedly ratted out Eric by giving the website?

That's why their story doesn't add up.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 10:56 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I think that as well. Eric got what he considered or thought was a real friend, and Dylan got someone he could count on to not back away from what he wanted to do.

You can make so many different arguments about the boys, which is what makes this case so interesting. There's evidence that Eric was the  driving force and also that Dylan planted the idea into Eric's head.

Did Dylan look at Eric as a best friend? Well he did take up 7 pages of Eric's  yearbook and they did seem to get along in the videos and have fun with one another.


I actually don't think Dylan thought of Eric as his best friend. But we do know that Eric did consider Dylan his best friend. I think that spot was filled by Zach or Nate. Eric was just a friend until NBK came into the picture. Then I think Dylan knew Eric was likely the only one who would go along with or be interested in NBK.  Also that he was in a certain mind set to be capable of something like that.

Your statement "Then again Dylan needed someone like Eric to do a lot of the NBK work, he just wanted to show up." is spot on in my opinion.

Eric was the planner, the list maker, the get things done type. While Dylan lacked the motivation to even go through with his own suicide, much less do all the thinking and planning of NBK. So he let Eric plan and he was riding shotgun.

The stories you hear about Nate sleeping over involved a lot more fun, cooking and watching TV late into the night and stuff. With Eric it was all secretive and stuff.

We do know Eric looked at Dylan as his best friend. I bet Dylan's laid back attitude (though he did say he hated laid back people, but he seemed more chill then Eric) helped Eric vent and sound off, he had someone  he could be himself around.

Even glancing at their to do lists. Eric's was all tactical and Dylan's was "buy pants"


Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.


So basically Eric wanted to be like Dylan and copied everything Dylan did and from what it sounds like - Dylan was kind of a dick to Eric, behind Eric's back and who really didn't even want to hang around Eric but Dylan just tolerated him? I just want to make sure I have this right for my own research and understanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 18, 2017 11:12 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.
I'm not sure if Devon said this later on or whether someone else said it in the 11k but Devon actually told the police that she felt that Dylan was a follower and that Eric was the leader.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 12:14 am

I don’t buy Dylan planning, thinking of it first, really doing anything other than going along with it because he wanted to die anyways. I just feel like Eric had way more intent and drive to wipe out everybody. He was the one who put everything together, he was the one who was caught on tape at that gas station in the early morning. I think his own parents also know how much impact he truly had on Columbine which is part of the reason they want to forget about him and stay away from the tragedy.

I just highly doubt Dylan was the one to spark Columbine. His demeanor and mannerisms in all the footage we have suggest to me of somebody who just goes with the flow.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 12:28 am

sscc wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Jenn wrote:
Eric copied Dylan all the way down to the way he started dressing, to the stickers he put on his car. Eric didn't even like liquor, but he drank it because Dylan did. And I'm pretty sure it was probably the same with the cigarettes.

Eric referred to Dylan as his best friend all of the time and mentioned how he got the exact same decal to put on his car because Dylan had one.

I think Devon had even said somewhere that Eric copied Dylan and that he HATED it! But I can't remember exactly where I came across it though. scratch

I feel like maybe the 11k? Devon did say that Eric copied everything Dylan did.
I'm not sure if Devon said this later on or whether someone else said it in the 11k but Devon actually told the police that she felt that Dylan was a follower and that Eric was the leader.

Devon said a lot of contradictory things. She said that Eric followed him in dress and style.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 2:12 am

Sane One wrote:
I don’t buy Dylan planning, thinking of it first.

Dylan Klebold - Journal Entry - 2-2-98 wrote:

Well well . . . so much changes . . . (like existence). I understand almost everything now . . . so close to my love — . The runes have shown it, she has shown it, I have felt it. I know the meaning of each life: to be loved by your love, & to be happy with ones self. Only for the gods though (me, , etc.). the zombies & their society band together & try to destroy what is superior (what they don’t understand & are afraid of. Soon. . . . either I’ll commit suicide, or I’ll get with  & it will be NBK for us. My happiness. Her happiness. NOTHING else matters. I’ve been caught with most of my crimes — xpl [for example] drinking, smoking & the house vandalism, & the pipe bombs. If, by fate’s choice,  didn’t love me, I’d slit my wrist & blow up Atlanta strapped to my neck. It’s good, understanding a hard road since my realization, but it gets easier. BUT IT DOESN’T! that’s part of existence. Unpredictable. Existence is pure hell & pure heaven at the same time. I will never stop wondering. The lost highway will never end, the music in my head will never stop . . . total [?] part of existence. The hall will never end. The love will always be there. GOD I LOVE HER!!! It’s so great to love.

I do think Eric's involvement took it from fantasy to reality, but this big grandiose way of going out was Dylan's idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 2:50 am

they both fed off each other, there was no leader nor follower. The CCTV video shows a lot of that. In some instances Eric is following behind Dylan, and at other times Eric is calling out commands to him while sipping on a drink.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 7:10 am

remember Dylan mentioned in his journal going on a killing spree with a girl in 97 before Eric was in the plan eric started likely in 98 /99
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 7:10 am

spidEr wrote:
they both fed off each other, there was no leader nor follower. The CCTV video shows a lot of that. In some instances Eric is following behind Dylan, and at other times Eric is calling out commands to him while sipping on a drink.

I think they fed off each other too. It may not have been 50/50 but a lot of what we speculate about their dynamic comes from secondhand accounts, so how can we say definitively who was calling the shots?
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 7:47 am

W.A.R. wrote:
Sane One wrote:
I don’t buy Dylan planning, thinking of it first.

Dylan Klebold - Journal Entry - 2-2-98 wrote:

Well well . . . so much changes . . . (like existence). I understand almost everything now . . . so close to my love — . The runes have shown it, she has shown it, I have felt it. I know the meaning of each life: to be loved by your love, & to be happy with ones self. Only for the gods though (me, , etc.). the zombies & their society band together & try to destroy what is superior (what they don’t understand & are afraid of. Soon. . . . either I’ll commit suicide, or I’ll get with  & it will be NBK for us. My happiness. Her happiness. NOTHING else matters. I’ve been caught with most of my crimes — xpl [for example] drinking, smoking & the house vandalism, & the pipe bombs. If, by fate’s choice,  didn’t love me, I’d slit my wrist & blow up Atlanta strapped to my neck. It’s good, understanding a hard road since my realization, but it gets easier. BUT IT DOESN’T! that’s part of existence. Unpredictable. Existence is pure hell & pure heaven at the same time. I will never stop wondering. The lost highway will never end, the music in my head will never stop . . . total [?] part of existence. The hall will never end. The love will always be there. GOD I LOVE HER!!! It’s so great to love.

I do think Eric's involvement took it from fantasy to reality, but this big grandiose way of going out was Dylan's idea.

Agreed. Dylan had this in his head, but never really acted on it other then taking it to Eric. Eric was the one who set it all into motion, which was what Dylan wanted in my opinion.  After Eric became involved Dylan basically sat back and watched his plan come to life fueled by Eric's rage and enthusiasm.

There was no true leader/follower situation. Both knew it was wrong, both went through with it anyway, both are equally to blame in my eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 7:56 am

Dylan manipulated Eric in my true honest opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 8:23 am

Ivan wrote:
Dylan manipulated Eric in my true honest opinion.


It's clear to me that Dylan was indeed the better manipulator. He had almost everyone fooled. Much like a wolf in sheep's clothing as the old saying goes. Most saw nothing that would have made them think Dylan was capable of such things. A few friends had seen his anger once or twice. But his own parents were clueless, as was the vast majority of people who knew him.

Everyone always says that Eric was the better deceiver, was better at manipulation. I just don't see it. Sure Eric could lie well, and did get away with A LOT of things. But in my opinion his manipulation capabilities were nothing when compared to Dylan's.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 8:31 am

I think we tend to label Eric as more manipulative because he bragged about being such a good liar. He talked about tricking girls into his bedroom and which one would be first.

Dylan didn't really talk about things like that, but that doesn't mean he wasn't also manipulating the people in his life. The love letter where he pretty much tells a girl he will kill him self if his feelings aren't reciprocated is a good example of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 9:26 am

Littlelo wrote:
I think we tend to label Eric as more manipulative because he bragged about being such a good liar. He talked about tricking girls into his bedroom and which one would be first.

Dylan didn't really talk about things like that, but that doesn't mean he wasn't also manipulating the people in his life. The love letter where he pretty much tells a girl he will kill him self if his feelings aren't reciprocated is a good example of this.

It surprises how many people think it's a romantic letter. He's also vaguely confessing to "crimes"

Sue said in an interview "she didn't have any idea who he was"

I wonder if they spoke to the girl or if she's assuming because he tells her "you don't know who I am" or something to that extent.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 10:01 am

I bet they would have at least tried to interview her, but would Sue know about it?

The 11k interviews are pretty vague...the report might say "REDACTED name was found on a piece of paper in Klebold residence". It would be hard to tell, even if the name wasn't redacted, what the paper said (if it was a love letter or just a name and number scribbled down). I don't think they went into more detail than that.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Rebbie556 wrote:
remember Dylan  mentioned  in his journal going on a killing spree with a girl in 97 before Eric was in the plan eric started likely in 98 /99
True, but Eric wrote a lot of violent things in his Doom mod files during 1997 about blowing people up and stuff and I believe some of the threatening messages on his site. Dylan's journal started out as something just for himself, but Eric's was written more for the world to see afterwards, so he could have been thinking about it before, even if he didn't write it down.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 3:22 pm

Eric definitely wrote for an audience. But Dylan had to have known his writing would be read by other people after he was gone...
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 3:28 pm

Littlelo wrote:
Eric definitely wrote for an audience. But Dylan had to have known his writing would be read by other people after he was gone...

I would pay a decent amount of money to know what was on the hard drive that Dylan destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 19, 2017 3:53 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
Eric definitely wrote for an audience. But Dylan had to have known his writing would be read by other people after he was gone...

I would pay a decent amount of money to know what was on the hard drive that Dylan destroyed.  

Me too.

One can only speculate.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 30, 2017 6:02 pm

I hate the fact that people like Cullen who shamelessly push this completely incorrect theory are constantly speaking at events and being interviewed by media on the topic like they're a trustworthy professional on Columbine.
It should say something when Dylan's own mother has come to accept his responsibility in the massacre more than Cullen does now.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER   Dylan the angel, Eric the MONSTER - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 30, 2017 6:24 pm

Skrik wrote:
I hate the fact that people like Cullen who shamelessly push this completely incorrect theory are constantly speaking at events and being interviewed by media on the topic like they're a trustworthy professional on Columbine.
It should say something when Dylan's own mother has come to accept his responsibility in the massacre more than Cullen does now.
She doesn't really accept it though. She basically pushes the same exact stuff that Cullen does - that Dylan was roped into it by Eric. She's never once addressed or admitted that Dylan was talking about doing this with a girl prior to even bringing Eric into it.

She accepted that Dylan killed people and that she didn't really know him, yea, but she doesn't admit that he was just as responsible as Eric. She blames the entire thing on Dylan's mental health, which is ridiculous. Most suicidal people do not commit mass murder. Most depressed and suicidal people don't even hurt other people, they just wanna kill themselves. There's much more to it than just Dylan's depression and mental health.

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