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 Nineteen years of Columbine

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think Eric saw past high school - he wrote his thoughts about how he saw no point in getting a job and going to college and working for the rest of your life so you can retire and then die a few years later... he saw through that.

He was right, that system is pointless, and it's something many teenagers see through.

Perhaps he didn't know there were other options, or if he did, he didn't care. But I think he saw through the system of society pretty far, and that was part of what fueled his hopelessness for the future... there really was nothing in life for him to live for. He wasn't interested in playing that part in society. 

I agree completely; I've come to this conclusion for quite a while now.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:53 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think Eric saw past high school - he wrote his thoughts about how he saw no point in getting a job and going to college and working for the rest of your life so you can retire and then die a few years later... he saw through that.

He was right, that system is pointless, and it's something many teenagers see through.

Perhaps he didn't know there were other options, or if he did, he didn't care. But I think he saw through the system of society pretty far, and that was part of what fueled his hopelessness for the future... there really was nothing in life for him to live for. He wasn't interested in playing that part in society. 

I agree completely; I've come to this conclusion for quite a while now.

Eric was a huge pessimist obviously and yeah, of course, everyone knows that. You go to school, work, retire, and then die. But it's what happens in between all that, that is great. Life is full of great things. But doing what he did wasn't a solution. It just made people who wanted to live life and enjoy it, not be able to do that just because some kid saw life as pointless.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think Eric saw past high school - he wrote his thoughts about how he saw no point in getting a job and going to college and working for the rest of your life so you can retire and then die a few years later... he saw through that.

He was right, that system is pointless, and it's something many teenagers see through.

Perhaps he didn't know there were other options, or if he did, he didn't care. But I think he saw through the system of society pretty far, and that was part of what fueled his hopelessness for the future... there really was nothing in life for him to live for. He wasn't interested in playing that part in society.

I can relate to that, too. I never wanted to follow that path in life and that was always a driving force in my suicidal thoughts/desires. Nobody told me self-employment was a possibility. Took me 35 years to realize I really could do whatever I wanted and not follow the "rules..." they just don't teach you that in high school. So you end up with kids who see through the bullshit but aren't given another option.

Besides, Eric was charming and a smart kid. I'm sure he could have found a purpose and a point in life. He had a strong love for the military. He got rejected by the Marines 5 days before the massacre, which probably even fueled his thoughts on how life is pointless. But he still had a strong love for technology and video games and could have possibly pursued a career in one of those fields and been happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:22 am

I'm not convinced Eric's unofficial implied rejection from the Marines made a difference. Nobody even told him he was rejected. The officer left a message for him to call back, and that's all. He told people at school he had been rejected, and I don't think he cared at all. That was just another act.

Here's why.

On April 12th, 8 days before the shooting, Eric recorded on one of the "Basement Tapes" the following:

"For the past few weeks, my parents have hounded me about the things I've neglected: my application to the Marines; my car insurance; my checking account. But they don't know that none of that matters to me."

At the time he recorded that his Marines application didn't matter to him, the recruiter had not yet visited Eric's home. His medication (Luvox) had not come into question . Eric did not care about joining the Marines long before there was even a possibility he may not be eligible. He was playing everyone like a piano.

So, when Staff Sergeant Gonzales visited his home three days later on the 15th, Eric was just going through the motions. He didn't really care.

It's easy to think that his implied rejection added to his rage, but the evidence doesn't support that.

He didn't have a strong love for the military, either - he had a strong love for improvised explosives and weapons and killing. I don't think he would have lasted a week in the actual military. His contempt for authority would have gotten him kicked out.

It's hard to understand Eric when you look at him and analyze his actions through the lens of your own logic, worldview, and reasoning... you have to get out of your world and into his world to understand. He was manipulating everyone to maintain appearances. He had to, if he wanted to go undetected.

He really didn't care about the Marines at all, and his taped statement prior to the home visit proves it.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:29 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I'm not convinced Eric's unofficial implied rejection from the Marines made a difference. Nobody even told him he was rejected. The officer left a message for him to call back, and that's all. He told people at school he had been rejected, and I don't think he cared at all. That was just another act.

Here's why.

On April 12th, 8 days before the shooting, Eric recorded on one of the "Basement Tapes" the following:

"For the past few weeks, my parents have hounded me about the things I've neglected: my application to the Marines; my car insurance; my checking account. But they don't know that none of that matters to me."

At the time he recorded that his Marines application didn't matter to him, the recruiter had not yet visited Eric's home. His medication (Luvox) had not come into question . Eric did not care about joining the Marines long before there was even a possibility he may not be eligible. He was playing everyone like a piano.

So, when Staff Sergeant Gonzales visited his home three days later on the 15th, Eric was just going through the motions. He didn't really care.

It's easy to think that his implied rejection added to his rage, but the evidence doesn't support that.

He didn't have a strong love for the military, either - he had a strong love for improvised explosives and weapons and killing. I don't think he would have lasted a week in the actual military. His contempt for authority would have gotten him kicked out.

It's hard to understand Eric when you look at him and analyze his actions through the lens of your own logic, worldview, and reasoning... you have to get out of your world and into his world to understand. He was manipulating everyone to maintain appearances. He had to, if he wanted to go undetected.

He really didn't care about the Marines at all, and his taped statement prior to the home visit proves it.

Huh, did not know that. Thanks for the info.
Also adds to my point of him being charming, very manipulative. And yeah, he had to be. If he showed how he really was on the inside, he would have been stopped long before he even got the chance to even start planning it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:30 am

Not only was Eric never actually rejected (he never even turned in a completed application so he could not have been rejected) but... here's the kicker.

Psychotropic medication is not an automatic disqualification for service. The military prescribes much of those same medications to soldiers. Prior to the Iraq war in 1993, soldiers could not go into combat on psychiatric drugs. However, after 1993 that changed and many psychiatrists won't even approve deployment UNLESS their patients/soldiers are taking psychiatric drugs. That's scary, right?

Also, today, one out of every six soldiers takes prescription drugs including anti-depressants like Zoloft, anti-psychotics, narcotics, sedatives, anti-anxiety drugs, and amphetamines. And like I said, that has been in effect since 1993.6 years prior to Eric's unofficial 'application.'

So, not only was Eric never told he was disqualified, but the fact that he was taking medication was not an automatic disqualifier in the first place.

Most people don't know this though...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:31 am

Yep! Totally charming and manipulative!

Hell bent on destruction and willing to do anything to keep it under wraps...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yep! Totally charming and manipulative!

Hell bent on destruction and willing to do anything to keep it under wraps...

You seem like a cool guy lol, but it sounds like you kind of, commend what Eric and Dylan did. I really hope not.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:34 am

The one thing that confuses me most is that he wrote about how his medication was helping him feel calm, and so he stopped taking it so he could build on the rage. I wonder if he really did stop taking it or if he just took it intermittently, because there was a small amount in his system when they did the autopsy...

It's one thing to stop medication, and another to take it inconsistently... I always wonder if he took it in front of his parents just so they wouldn't catch on... or if he purposely took it sporadically to push himself further over the edge...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] just stating the truth of what I see!

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:35 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] just stating the truth of what I see!

Yeah, so am I. I'm saying Eric was charming and manipulative, which he was. But not saying that in a way as a compliment, since he was charming for all the wrong reasons. lol
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:38 am

Yup. Exactly. He just knew how to get his way with people. He had everyone fooled. It's a great skill to have when you're trying to plan a surprise birthday party... not so great when you're planning destruction...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:41 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yup. Exactly. He just knew how to get his way with people. He had everyone fooled. It's a great skill to have when you're trying to plan a surprise birthday party... not so great when you're planning destruction...

Tbh, if I knew Dylan, I would have been his friend. He had plenty friends and was a very cool and genuine kid. But Eric had few friends for a reason, I believe he just wasn't a fun person to be around, kind of a dick. So idk if I'd have gotten a long with Eric.

Crazy to think if they never did this, they'd be nearly 40 years old today and just be people no one knew about. But everyone knows who Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are. Very infamous.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:46 am

It does seem that way, yeah... like it would be harder to get along with Eric. For sure. I don't think I would have gotten along with him at all in high school. I wasn't easy to get along with, either. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
It does seem that way, yeah... like it would be harder to get along with Eric. For sure. I don't think I would have gotten along with him at all in high school. I wasn't easy to get along with, either. lol

It still boggles me what did Dylan see in Eric? Why did he like Eric so much? I think it was because they fed off each other’s anger and despair and both had the dream of NBK.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:33 pm

I think Dylan was pretty loyal to people. Eric didn’t have anyone to connect with and Dylan was this shy and super smart kid who never wanted to let anyone down. As Dylan kept feeling abandoned by his friends, Eric was there.

I’ve read that Eric later in HS would tell Dylan that no one else really liked him. Dylan was probably able to be really angry around Eric and Eric may have been able to be vulnerable around Dylan.

They didn’t seem to have a ton of common interests later in their friendship. They were pretty different.


Just my 2 cents...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:11 am

Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:18 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents  did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

And how much more he's demonized compared to his partner in crime.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:13 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents  did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

And how much more he's demonized compared to his partner in crime.

Yes, I mentioned in another thread I never quite noticed that Sue calls the massacre "Eric's plan" a couple of times, that makes me feel foolish but while she says she understands Dylan's cruelty and behavior she does seem to place most of the blame on Eric.

People who think Eric was a charming psychopath have never watched the full Eric in Columbine video, at the very least.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents  did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

And how much more he's demonized compared to his partner in crime.


To true.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents  did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

And how much more he's demonized compared to his partner in crime.
100%. Honestly wish people would see past that whole Dylan was a victim to Eric too bull, and realize he is equally to blame.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:24 pm

[quote="Heyheyhey"]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents  did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.

And how much more he's demonized compared to his partner in crime.


It's funny how she calls it "Eric's plan." But Dylan was the first one to introduce NBK to Eric in the first place. It was a fantasy of Dylan's for over a year before Eric even started writing about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:40 am

Just because Dylan was the first to write about it doesn't mean he thought of it first...

We don't have any idea what they discussed together.

It's a possibility but it's also an assumption...

A lack of evidence is not, itself, evidence...

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Just because Dylan was the first to write about it doesn't mean he thought of it first...

We don't have any idea what they discussed together.

It's a possibility but it's also an assumption...

A lack of evidence is not, itself, evidence...

I do agree with you, I've always thought that. We don't know what they talked about privately. Dylan did want it to be with a woman at first but who knows if Eric didn't bring it up, then Dylan thought about it as being with a woman then realized Eric was the "best" choice?

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:04 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do agree with you, I've always thought that. We don't know what they talked about privately. Dylan did want it to be with a woman at first but who knows if Eric didn't bring it up, then Dylan thought about it as being with a woman then realized Eric was the "best" choice?

That seems like an awkward way for it to come about. Is it possible Eric had a similar idea and brought it up to Dylan? and Dylan having already thought about doing something crazy readily bought into it? I guess (I maintain it was Dylan's idea but this is for pure argument's sake) Either way that journal entry disproves the notion that Dylan was manipulated.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:17 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I do agree with you, I've always thought that. We don't know what they talked about privately. Dylan did want it to be with a woman at first but who knows if Eric didn't bring it up, then Dylan thought about it as being with a woman then realized Eric was the "best" choice?

That seems like an awkward way for it to come about. Is it possible Eric had a similar idea and brought it up to Dylan? and Dylan having already thought about doing something crazy readily bought into it? I guess (I maintain it was Dylan's idea but this is for pure argument's sake) Either way that journal entry disproves the notion that Dylan was manipulated.

That could very well be. It always amazes me how people overlook Dylan's anger and also Eric's depression. I mean Dylan wrote a good 7 pages in Eric's yearbook of just pure anger... some of it was regular friend stuff "We went to the water park and got BURNT! Our shoes are better that everyone elses"

then "the holy morning of NBK will be godlike" etc:...
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Just because Dylan was the first to write about it doesn't mean he thought of it first...

This is a point that i’ve always thought but not many people will have it. One of many questions we’ll never know. Personally, i’ve always thought Eric was the one who came up with the plan - again though, no evidence to back that up.
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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:41 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Is it possible Eric had a similar idea and brought it up to Dylan? and Dylan having already thought about doing something crazy readily bought into it?

Imagine the odds - two teenagers each come up with a plan to commit mass murder independently of one another, then after being friends for a while, they decide to combine their plans. 

I'm not trying to take a dig at you mind, I just think that if that was how it really went down (and it very well may have), then it really was a perfect storm of events, so to speak.

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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:11 pm

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Tomorrow will be a cold and snowy day.

Rachel and Dylan’s funerals were 19 years ago tomorrow. Both covered by the news. Both drastically different. Rachel had thousands. Dylan had about 12. Some reports say Zach attended, that was never confirmed. His, Nate’s and Brooks”s patents did.

First of 14 funerals. The only one we don’t have info on is Eric’s

Which is sadly prophetic given how unloved and alone Eric felt.
Wow, I did not know that Dylans funeral was a public thing

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katherinex



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PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:19 am

I wonder what they would think of all the school shootings that occurred after their time. Especially given that the Florida one was pretty much viewed live via students using social media to update relatives, friends and various media outlets. I wonder what they would think of Cruz considering he committed such a horrible act and then left as though nothing had happened. And still as far as I am aware there's been no hint at what motivated him (in the UK all coverage of Florida on the news has finished - as far as I am aware).

Who knows where they could have been today, happily married with kids and a wife, a steady job at a company hey hated but they continue to work there in order to provide for their families. This could be said for every single victim also. I wonder (I'm not religious in the slightest but there are certain elements that I like such as seeing your loved ones who died once you pass away purely because its something nice to think about and doesn't make death seem so final) if every victim went to heaven, even Eric and Dylan, are they getting to live out the lives they didn't have on earth in heaven - so is Rachel enjoying acting etc. I know it sounds weird, but it's a thing to ponder over I think.

I also wonder what would have happened if they didn't go through with the full shooting and they only injured people, say outside and then they came to their senses. What would have happened x amount of years down the line say at a school reunion would the victim's who'd been injured speak to them or give them a wide berth? And what would the police charge them with if they only shot and injured people as opposed to killing them?
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Nineteen years of Columbine
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