Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Nineteen years of Columbine

Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
AuthorMessage
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2563
Contribution Points : 31794
Join date : 2017-09-04

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:43 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
"I'm Not Ashamed" is not a very good film but it's probably not quite as awful as you'd been told.

The way you just described it makes it sound even worse then I thought.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Someone posted a YT clip with just the E&D parts from I'm Not Ashamed... I just watched that clip a few days ago. I haven't watched the whole movie, but I think you're right, that scene was probably not that far off...

I'd rather watch a Cullen directed Columbine movie than have to watch I'm Not Ashamed, that movie is Christian fundamentalist propaganda from what I've heard.

"I'm Not Ashamed" is not a very good film but it's probably not quite as awful as you'd been told.  It is at least SLIGHTLY close to even-handed when dealing with Rachel as a character.  She is made out to be troubled about her faith and is not really made out to be a "saint."   I have to give the movie that much.  The actress who plays her, while obviously a lot taller than the real Rachel, does a decent job.  And the Duck Dynasty people who are in the movie aren't in it for very long, which is pretty nice.  

The scenes with Eric and Dylan play out curiously like they're trying to troll people like us at this board, the people who have obsessively studied everything about E&D--there is a scene of Eric spinning something on a table like in "Eric Inside Columbine," there is a cheesy recreation of a "Hitmen For Hire"-like video, an atheistic cigarette-smoking character Rachel talks to who is almost certainly meant to be Brooks Brown, and Dylan is seen at the prom, sporting that knot in the back of his hair and slow-dancing with a girl who is staring off into the distance.  Nick Baumgart, Rachel's prom date, has been amusingly recast as a giggly Asian dude.  
NOTE: in keeping with Cullen's basic theory, Dylan is made out to be a nicer person than Eric.  He is shown muttering things at Eric like "that's crazy bro" when Eric blabbers about killing everybody.

Of course, the central controversy is that Richard Castaldo's (unlikely IMO) testimony about E&D is exploited in the film, with E&D snarling at Rachel about God before killing her.  So that means the "do you believe in God" thing has gone from being Valeen, to Cassie, to Rachel.  If they were to make a movie about Kelly Fleming I bet they'd have them asking *her*, too.  

The movie does promote Christian values by having Rachel abandon her friends--God knows what real-life girls these people are based off of--because they drink and hook up with boys.  These are actually the most laughable scenes in the movie.  Guess I couldn't avoid it.

Rachel Scott remains something of an odd figure in the Columbine because everyone tries to lay claim to her--her family, the Christian crowd, and Columbiners of all religious stripes.  Many Columbiners seem to leverage their own  uncomfortableness with her fundamentalist beliefs by claiming that "deep down" she was an atheist or at least deeply conflicted about her beliefs.  Or, more hilariously, that Rachel herself was some sort of a Columbine bully in contrast with her saintly image, with an apocryphal story about her pushing another girl down the stairs.  It's one of the more fascinating aspects of Columbine discussion since she has now surpassed Cassie as the most famous of the 13 victims.

Tomorrow marks the anniversary of Waco (1993) and Oklahoma City (1995) which influenced Columbine in a strange sort of 90s violence cycle that I often refer to.  


The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Lunkhead McGrath
Top Contributor


Posts : 302
Contribution Points : 20724
Join date : 2016-11-03

PostSubject: dyldyl   Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:00 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.

Oh so Rachel's mom *and* Judy Brown drank the Kool-Aid on that one? I thought literally the only thing we knew for sure about the two of them is that Rachel and Dyl-dyl were in a theater class together. Certainly the gangly six foot whatever Dyldo would have made a hilarious prom date for the quite diminutive Rachel.

*Do* we know the ketchup tampon thing happened? I seem to get thirty different answers from thirty different people around here. I guess Cullen was nice enough to say it "probably" happened, but "the details are murky."

Yes, Brooks wrote an entire chapter about Rachel in his book. He had almost nothing but nice things to say about her. In the movie he aggressively questions "Rachel"'s faith, then sort of backs off when she sticks up for herself. "Oh that's cool." The character is not given a name (there's also a character with another name in place of Richard Castaldo...you'd think they'd use his real name since it's only due to him that anyone repeats the apocryphal story about Eric talking to Rachel before killing her!)

I would have given anything to see a Rocky Hoffschneider character in "I'm Not Ashamed." I guess we sort of got that with the lame "dork boowwwwwling!" scene. I can't remember if any of the trench coat people in the movie wore sunglasses like Chris Morris. The girl Dyldo goes to prom with in the movie doesn't look like Robyn Anderson. Much of the plot of the movie concerns Rachel's relationship with an obnoxiously preening theater-dork guy--who's THAT supposed to be? Much of the rest of the plot is Rachel trying to save a wayward soul, a scruffball dude who steals from convenience stores.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LPorter101

avatar

Posts : 1530
Contribution Points : 52224
Join date : 2013-12-01

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:22 am

On Monday, April 19, 1999, the sun rose in Denver at 6:17 a.m. and set at 7:42 p.m.

It was the last full day of their lives. They had already seen their last full Tuesday, their last Wednesday, their last Thursday, their last Friday, their last Saturday, their last Sunday. Their time on this earth was rapidly drawing to a close.

Thirteen people went to bed on Monday night for the last time.

Did Eric and Dylan get any sleep? It's doubtful.

_________________
Why does anyone do anything?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
LPorter101

avatar

Posts : 1530
Contribution Points : 52224
Join date : 2013-12-01

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:48 am

You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.

_________________
Why does anyone do anything?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

The Dylan character staring out into space I interpreted was from Beth Nimmo and Judy Browns insistence that Dylan had a crush on Rachel. I don't believe he did, because you'd think if they were at all compatible Devon would have tried to set them up, since she tried that with Dylan with another girl. Also I feel like they are trying to make it out to be a Shakesperean tragedy with those two.

They lost the magic of Hitmen for Hire which actually makes me laugh due to Erik V and Dylan's fuck ups.

I think the Brooks and Rachel convo actually happened,wasn't something like that in No Easy Answers?

I think Dylan was the "nicer" of the two but I think Dylan was better at covering it up. Though if the bullying was as bad as people say, and we know the tampon or ketchup thing happened since so many people did witness it, Dylan was not as loved as people said he was. He was as angry and violent as Eric was. I think they fed off of each other. Dylan could be angry with Eric and Eric could be depressed and vulnerable with Dylan.

Oh so Rachel's mom *and* Judy Brown drank the Kool-Aid on that one?  I thought literally the only thing we knew for sure about the two of them is that Rachel and Dyl-dyl were in a theater class together.  Certainly the gangly six foot whatever Dyldo would have made a hilarious prom date for the quite diminutive Rachel.  

*Do* we know the ketchup tampon thing happened?  I seem to get thirty different answers from thirty different people around here.  I guess Cullen was nice enough to say it "probably" happened, but "the details are murky."  

Yes, Brooks wrote an entire chapter about Rachel in his book.  He had almost nothing but nice things to say about her.  In the movie he aggressively questions "Rachel"'s faith, then sort of backs off when she sticks up for herself.  "Oh that's cool."  The character is not given a name (there's also a character with another name in place of Richard Castaldo...you'd think they'd use his real name since it's only due to him that anyone repeats the apocryphal story about Eric talking to Rachel before killing her!)

I would have given anything to see a Rocky Hoffschneider character in "I'm Not Ashamed."  I guess we sort of got that with the lame "dork boowwwwwling!" scene.  I can't remember if any of the trench coat people in the movie wore sunglasses like Chris Morris.  The girl Dyldo goes to prom with in the movie doesn't look like Robyn Anderson.  Much of the plot of the movie concerns Rachel's relationship with an obnoxiously preening theater-dork guy--who's THAT supposed to be?  Much of the rest of the plot is Rachel trying to save a wayward soul, a scruffball dude  who steals from convenience stores.  

I think the ketchup thing happened. A friend said he helped Dylan clean up and Sue saw his clothes all stained. However the whole tampon thing is murky to me
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.




This ^ is dead on accurate! It hits me on a very deep personal level. I truly wish I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now and redo a few things.

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
1891



Posts : 163
Contribution Points : 29005
Join date : 2015-09-01
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:10 am

NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:16 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.



There is a lot of speculation on this. The most widely believed is that they had to push the date back because Mark Manes kept forgetting to get the last of the ammo they needed.

He finally came through on the 4/19. So NBK was the following day on the 20th.


_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:43 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.



There is a lot of speculation on this. The most widely believed is that they had to push the date back because Mark Manes kept forgetting to get the last of the ammo they needed.

He finally came through on the 4/19. So NBK was the following day on the 20th.


We’ve never figured out why Eric couldn’t buy the ammo did we?
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
NBK was actually originally planned for Monday, April 19 as late as April 11, 1999.


Basement tapes transcripts from a tape recorded April 11, 1999. Eric talking:

He says this is total “KMFDM” and that “there are 7 and 1/3 days left.” He gets an odd look on his face, then says, “Fucking bitches.” He then lists five names and says that he’s going to be “one tired motherfucker come Monday, then BOOM! I’ll get shot and die.”


I wonder what made them change from the 19th to the 20th.



There is a lot of speculation on this. The most widely believed is that they had to push the date back because Mark Manes kept forgetting to get the last of the ammo they needed.

He finally came through on the 4/19. So NBK was the following day on the 20th.


We’ve never figured out why Eric couldn’t buy the ammo did we?


To my knowledge no. But at 18 he was old enough to purchase it. Maybe he just didn't want to do it himself. scratch

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
1891



Posts : 163
Contribution Points : 29005
Join date : 2015-09-01
Age : 26

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:34 am

Yeah I know about that, but it doesn't make sense why Eric didn't buy the ammo himself? He had already done it before. Why wait on a pretty unreliable guy like Manes seemed to be.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
W.A.R.
Top Contributor
avatar

Posts : 455
Contribution Points : 17465
Join date : 2017-03-11

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We’ve never figured out why Eric couldn’t buy the ammo did we?

Thats always been weird to me.

Only thing i can come up with is he didn't want to be seen buying ammo for whatever reason.

_________________
BORED? TIRED? Try L7.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Heyheyhey

avatar

Posts : 29
Contribution Points : 6078
Join date : 2018-02-23

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:05 pm

Currently 4/20 over here. Though Columbine technically started at 5:17am on the 21st on my timezone.

Sent from Topic'it App
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:24 pm

I’m going to the memorial tomorrow to pay my respects Sad

_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
23september



Posts : 213
Contribution Points : 14360
Join date : 2017-09-12

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I’m going to the memorial tomorrow to pay my respects Sad

Good luck, can't imagine what the feeling must be like at the memorial come 4/20 each year. Eerie and surreal i reckon

if you're leaving flowers leave one for me Sad
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I’m going to the memorial tomorrow to pay my respects Sad

Good luck, can't imagine what the feeling must be like at the memorial come 4/20 each year. Eerie and surreal i reckon

if you're leaving flowers leave one for me Sad

I absolutely will.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2563
Contribution Points : 31794
Join date : 2017-09-04

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And I wonder how much they regret what they did.

Oh they definitely have some regrets (if they're still around to have them anyway). I doubt they would've gone through with the plan had they known that the bombs would've failed.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Fatheroftwo



Posts : 331
Contribution Points : 32913
Join date : 2015-04-15
Location : Denver

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.


If aware and truly self conscience, I couldn't imagine anything less than total remorse. We are all flawed, influenced if not leveraged by fiction and overall a shell of our future selves at 17/18 years old. What could have been for so many and most importantly what could have changed had E/D let time resolve their issues.

What I'd give to go back n time and have the opportunity to reach out. Two goals for me tmrw... visit the memorial and as many acts of unsolicited kindness that I can pass along all day.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
You know, as I get older, I come to realize just how little I knew about anything - myself or the world around me - when I was 17. The basic elements of who I am now were already there, but they were like the steel frame of a concrete building. So much had yet to be filled in. My mind, my body, and even my soul were still very much under construction.

At 32, I wouldn't say that my life is totally filled in, but my understanding of everything has grown to a degree that I could not have imagined half a lifetime ago.

By committing mass murder, Eric and Dylan relinquished any claim to our sympathy. They do not deserve anything from us. But I do mourn for them - not for the boys who killed, but for the boys who might have found some reason to live and let live. I firmly believe that both boys could have been saved, at least earlier on. (Maybe they were too far gone by 4/20; maybe they weren't.)

Every year, when I mark the anniversary, I reflect on how much my own life has changed over the last year. And then I think about how all the lives that ended on that day might have changed.

The thing about life is that you never know where you are going to end up, certainly not when you are a senior in high school. We oscillate between hope and fear, between joy and sorrow, between ecstasy and agony. Hopefully, we reach a stable equilibrium somewhere along the way. There are always twists and turns, triumphs and tragedies, victories and defeats. But the journey never ends until we die.

After death, do we travel to that faraway land beyond the cosmic sea - the undiscovered country of death? I guess we'll all find out, sooner or later.

If any part of Eric and Dylan is still around, somewhere, in heaven or in hell, or simply floating around as some kind of restless spirit, I wonder whether they're aware of how much they missed. And I wonder how much they regret what they did.


If aware and truly self conscience, I couldn't imagine anything less than total remorse.  We are all flawed, influenced if not leveraged by fiction and overall a shell of our future selves at 17/18 years old.   What could have been for so many and most importantly what could have changed had E/D let time resolve their issues.

What I'd give to go back n time and have the opportunity to reach out.   Two goals for me tmrw...  visit the memorial and as many acts of unsolicited kindness that I can pass along all day.

Mine too. I will be living Rachel’s Challenge tomorrow
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:26 pm

Dylan wrote this 19 years ago this morning.


   One day. one is the beginning? the end. hahaha
        reversed, yet true.  About 26.5 hours from now the
        judgement will begin. Difficult, but not impossible,
        necessary, nerveracking & fun.

                            What fun is life without
                                           a little death?
             It’s interesting, when im in my human
            form, knowing im going to die.  Everything
            has a touch of triviality to it.  like how
            none of this calculus shit matters the way
            it shouldn’t.  the truth.  In 26.4 hours i'll
            be dead, & in happiness. Oh little zombie
            human fags will know their errors, & be
           forever suffering & mournful. HAHAHA, of course
           I will miss things. not really.
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:29 pm

His anger and rage is palpable. It leeps off the page.

_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
EthanEmerson

avatar

Posts : 109
Contribution Points : 18879
Join date : 2016-11-30
Location : Everywhere

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:49 pm

@LunkheadMcGrath - great description, thanks for that overview.

Maybe you haven't heard yet... but recently, Richard Castaldo gave an interview and now he claims Eric asked HIM if he believed in God, too... said he just didn't want to share it all these years for personal reasons... he now claims that when he was asked this question, he said "no" because he's an agnostic and he thinks his truthful answer saved his life.

In the next paragraph, though, he also says he "regrets" not giving a different answer and said he just didn't have the balls.

Why would someone who said they answered truthfully when they said no, they don't believe in God, regret not saying yes - which would be a lie - why would someone who doesn't believe in God, who thinks their life was spared for saying no, ever "regret" being truthful?

Maybe he didn't get enough attention and he wishes he could have been one of the kids who said yes and died for it? I have no idea, but his testimony has always been wishy washy. He didn't remember anything in the beginning and told investigators little. Other people came out of the woodwork and gave hearsay testimony about what Richard told them - saying he told them Rachel was asked if she believes in God and he kept saying he doesn't remember ever saying that... none of his original testimony, to my memory, states anything about Rachel being asked if she believes in God...

I think that's something people overlaid on Rachel's story after they heard that Val was asked... and after the rumor about Cassie being asked was spread. Rachel probably would have said yes, but that doesn't mean she was ever asked... but hey, it makes a good story and gets a specific message across even harder, so people will believe in any shred of rumor...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Dylan wrote this 19 years ago this morning.


   One day. one is the beginning? the end. hahaha
        reversed, yet true.  About 26.5 hours from now the
        judgement will begin. Difficult, but not impossible,
        necessary, nerveracking & fun.

                            What fun is life without
                                           a little death?
             It’s interesting, when im in my human
            form, knowing im going to die.  Everything
            has a touch of triviality to it.  like how
            none of this calculus shit matters the way
            it shouldn’t.  the truth.  In 26.4 hours i'll
            be dead, & in happiness. Oh little zombie
            human fags will know their errors, & be
           forever suffering & mournful. HAHAHA, of course
           I will miss things. not really.






We could try and pick apart what he was feeling when he wrote this. We could try to decipher the meaning behind his words, but truthfully I doubt he really knew himself. No

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
@LunkheadMcGrath - great description, thanks for that overview.

Maybe you haven't heard yet... but recently, Richard Castaldo gave an interview and now he claims Eric asked HIM if he believed in God, too... said he just didn't want to share it all these years for personal reasons... he now claims that when he was asked this question, he said "no" because he's an agnostic and he thinks his truthful answer saved his life.

In the next paragraph, though, he also says he "regrets" not giving a different answer and said he just didn't have the balls.

Why would someone who said they answered truthfully when they said no, they don't believe in God, regret not saying yes - which would be a lie - why would someone who doesn't believe in God, who thinks their life was spared for saying no, ever "regret" being truthful?

Maybe he didn't get enough attention and he wishes he could have been one of the kids who said yes and died for it? I have no idea, but his testimony has always been wishy washy. He didn't remember anything in the beginning and told investigators little. Other people came out of the woodwork and gave hearsay testimony about what Richard told them - saying he told them Rachel was asked if she believes in God and he kept saying he doesn't remember ever saying that... none of his original testimony, to my memory, states anything about Rachel being asked if she believes in God...

I think that's something people overlaid on Rachel's story after they heard that Val was asked... and after the rumor about Cassie being asked was spread. Rachel probably would have said yes, but that doesn't mean she was ever asked... but hey, it makes a good story and gets a specific message across even harder, so people will believe in any shred of rumor...


Do you have links to this interview?

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
EthanEmerson

avatar

Posts : 109
Contribution Points : 18879
Join date : 2016-11-30
Location : Everywhere

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] oh wow it was an interview supposedly given in 2012. See, memory sucks haha

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
Could you engage your destiny even if it means launching a war? Arjuna did.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Screamingophelia
Chatroom Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 4104
Contribution Points : 64743
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 36

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Dylan wrote this 19 years ago this morning.


   One day. one is the beginning? the end. hahaha
        reversed, yet true.  About 26.5 hours from now the
        judgement will begin. Difficult, but not impossible,
        necessary, nerveracking & fun.

                            What fun is life without
                                           a little death?
             It’s interesting, when im in my human
            form, knowing im going to die.  Everything
            has a touch of triviality to it.  like how
            none of this calculus shit matters the way
            it shouldn’t.  the truth.  In 26.4 hours i'll
            be dead, & in happiness. Oh little zombie
            human fags will know their errors, & be
           forever suffering & mournful. HAHAHA, of course
           I will miss things. not really.






We could try and pick apart what he was feeling when he wrote this. We could try to decipher the meaning behind his words, but truthfully I doubt he really knew himself. No

Oddly enough I think he was probably a bit zombie like, going through the motions.

The school day is now over. Really the last normal day for the kids and adults who survived.no awareness that in 24 hours the world would look a lot different. Right now 19 years ago only 2 people on this planet knew what was going to happen.


_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
View user profile Online
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] oh wow it was an interview supposedly given in 2012. See, memory sucks haha

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thank you! Smile

While very interesting, I still don't put much stock into it. As you said, Richard has said many things over the years. He has remembered something, then turned around and remembered it differently or not at all.  

Not saying he is doing it purposely, but in my opinion his memory was and still is clouded by the horror of what happened to him. Crying or Very sad

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
EthanEmerson

avatar

Posts : 109
Contribution Points : 18879
Join date : 2016-11-30
Location : Everywhere

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:52 pm

That's definitely what it seems like... I mean, he wasn't just in a room closing his eyes hoping nothing happened... he witnessed Rachel being shot and killed right next to him... that's the kind of trauma the brain blocks :/


_________________
Could you engage your destiny even if it means launching a war? Arjuna did.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
ShadowedGoddess
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 5859
Contribution Points : 65990
Join date : 2017-03-03

PostSubject: Re: Nineteen years of Columbine   Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That's definitely what it seems like... I mean, he wasn't just in a room closing his eyes hoping nothing happened... he witnessed Rachel being shot and killed right next to him... that's the kind of trauma the brain blocks :/



Agreed. This is why a lot of the witness reports are filled with things that make no sense.

_________________
Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Nineteen years of Columbine
Back to top 
Page 4 of 9Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 Similar topics
-
» An old story from years ago...
» Potions: Lesson 3 (Years 5-7)
» The Clock Strikes Twelve (OPENISH!!! NEW YEARS EVE)
» About the Dragon Years and aging milestones
» (*゚▽゚)_□Celebrating 20 Years of Arthur(*゚▽゚)_□

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: