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 If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick

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PostSubject: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:00 pm

Sometimes I find it helpful to say to myself, "Okay, I've spent years studying the minutiae of Columbine, but what is the bottom line? If I had to explain Eric and Dylan's motives in a single paragraph, what would I say?"

I would say this:

Eric and Dylan felt that their lives were empty, boring, and meaningless. They couldn't form meaningful connections with others. They felt that nothing they could do in life would bring them any real joy or satisfaction. So they wanted to go out with a bang and make themselves immortal in the process. They wanted the world to remember them as badass muthafuckas. Ultimately, they were monstrously selfish, because they didn't care how many people they had to hurt to get what they wanted.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo (psychopath/depressive/whatever) doesn't interest me. Cullen says "Eric wanted to kill and Dylan wanted to die," but Eric wanted to die just as much as Dylan did.

If you accept Cullen's contention that Dylan wasn't all that enthused about killing, then the most charitable interpretation of Dylan's thoughts (as expressed in his journal and on the basement tapes) and his actions before and during the massacre is that he so badly wanted to die that he didn't give a shit who lived or who died. He was, at best, completely indifferent to the suffering of others. He expected many if not most of his friends to be killed when the bombs went off, and he didn't care.

How can anyone see Cullen's Dylan as a sympathetic figure?

DYLAN
Oh, I'm so depressed. I just wanna die. Why can't someone just kill me already?

ERIC
Hey, Dylan, wanna blow up the cafeteria and mow down the survivors in cold blood?

DYLAN
Yeah, whatever. I don't give a flying fuck what happens to anyone else so long as I get to die. Kill the whole fucking student body if you want. No skin off my ass.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Eric was the sole driving force behind NBK, that he was the one calling all the shots, and that Dylan really didn't want to take part in it.

The first question that pops into my mind is: "If Dylan didn't want to be part of NBK, then didn't he do something - *anything* - to stop it?" I mean, the sheer degree of premeditation evident in Dylan's actions (and inaction) in the months leading up to NBK indicates that Dylan didn't have any serious second thoughts about Eric was planning to do.

And don't tell me that Dylan didn't say anything to anyone because he was afraid of Eric. Eric wasn't following him around 24/7/365. He had plenty of opportunities to do something - *anything*.

If sad little puppy-dog emo Dylan was so terrified of swaggering pussy-pounding psycho Eric that he couldn't bring himself to tell anyone what Eric was planning, then all he had to do was to get in his BMW, drive out to some gas station 50 miles from Denver, and call the police from a pay phone. (It's doubtful that the Jeffco jokers would have done anything about it, but he could have at least made the effort.) After calling the police, he could have called the school board, and Frank DeAngelis, and Wayne Harris, and Channel 7, and told them precisely what was going on. He could have called his parents, and the Browns, and anyone else. He could have driven to the school with a megaphone and started shouting, "Eric's gonna kill you all!"

Dylan may or may not have wanted to die more than he wanted to kill, but he did not do *anything* to stop Eric from killing *anyone*. (Yes, he let John Savage go, but, then again, Eric left Brooks Brown go.)

In the end, Eric and Dylan's murderous actions proved that they didn't give a shit about anyone but themselves. That is the bottom line. And that is why I do not and cannot mourn the killers. I mourn the boys they were before they crossed the line, and I mourn the men they might have been, but I do not mourn the monsters they became in the last minutes of their lives. Those creatures - both of them - are beyond reason, beyond redemption.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:04 pm

Dylan shows more sociopathic tendencies than Eric - one being he's a much better liar/manipulator.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:10 am

People who make Dylan out to be the good guy are always concentrating on the lovey dovey crap. The heart pages in his journals, the redacted stuff about the girl he wished he could be with in the afterlife, the who-was-the-mystery-girl thing.

Note: this kind of nullifies the "Dylan was in a girls-were-yucky junior high" state of mind that that girl says in the other thing you posted.

Good that you don't sympathize with them--some of the responses in that "what afterlife are Eric & Dylan in now?" were so embarrassing that I considered leaving this forum.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:45 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
People who make Dylan out to be the good guy are always concentrating on the lovey dovey crap.  The heart pages in his journals, the redacted stuff about the girl he wished he could be with in the afterlife, the who-was-the-mystery-girl thing.  

Note: this kind of nullifies the "Dylan was in a girls-were-yucky junior high" state of mind that that girl says in the other thing you posted.

Good that you don't sympathize with them--some of the responses in that "what afterlife are Eric & Dylan in now?" were so embarrassing that I considered leaving this forum.

They were both vile creatures. I had to actually stop reading those types of threads because they make me angry.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:50 am

After hearing Dylan scream DIE MOTHERFUCKERS!!! in the 911 call I am completely on your side [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The thing is that Dylans motives aren't as clear as Erics and because of that they tend to be judged less harshly. The fact that Eric thinks he can motivate his crime logically in any way makes him an urelatable person to the general public. Dylan does not attempt to justify his crime as much, he simply does not care and people can relate to that general feeling of not giving a shit about anything.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:13 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
In the end, Eric and Dylan's murderous actions proved that they didn't give a shit about anyone but themselves. That is the bottom line. And that is why I do not and cannot mourn the killers. I mourn the boys they were before they crossed the line, and I mourn the men they might have been, but I do not mourn the monsters they became in the last minutes of their lives. Those creatures - both of them - are beyond reason, beyond redemption.


100% agree!

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
In the end, Eric and Dylan's murderous actions proved that they didn't give a shit about anyone but themselves. That is the bottom line. And that is why I do not and cannot mourn the killers. I mourn the boys they were before they crossed the line, and I mourn the men they might have been, but I do not mourn the monsters they became in the last minutes of their lives. Those creatures - both of them - are beyond reason, beyond redemption.


100% agree!

That’s where I stand as well.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
People who make Dylan out to be the good guy are always concentrating on the lovey dovey crap.  The heart pages in his journals, the redacted stuff about the girl he wished he could be with in the afterlife, the who-was-the-mystery-girl thing.  

Note: this kind of nullifies the "Dylan was in a girls-were-yucky junior high" state of mind that that girl says in the other thing you posted.

Good that you don't sympathize with them--some of the responses in that "what afterlife are Eric & Dylan in now?" were so embarrassing that I considered leaving this forum.

They were both vile creatures. I had to actually stop reading those types of threads because they make me angry.

Yeah, shame on people like me for having some empathy.  Rolling Eyes

I know what they did was horrible, but I forgive them for their crimes and hope that wherever they are now is better than what they what they were going through in life.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:01 pm

I just believe Eric sparked the entire thing. Whether you’re at school or work, you can tell almost right away the leaders and followers. Did not multiple people say Dylan was a follower in school? Who fired more shots on that day. Who kick started everything? Who wore a shirt that said Natural Selection? Who was the first one to get up and go to the gas station? Cullen is off on a few things but not on the fact both did this for two very different reasons.

Didn’t Eric say this?

"I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back," says Harris. "I can make you believe anything."

Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:19 pm

@Sane One wrote:
I just believe Eric sparked the entire thing. Whether you’re at school or work, you can tell almost right away the leaders and followers. Did not multiple people say Dylan was a follower in school? Who fired more shots on that day. Who kick started everything? Who wore a shirt that said Natural Selection? Who was the first one to get up and go to the gas station? Cullen is off on a few things but not on the fact both did this for two very different reasons.

Didn’t Eric say this?

"I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back," says Harris. "I can make you believe anything."

Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.


dylan knew killing was wrong and he wanted to kill. they both came up with the idea dylan is jut that kid that does minimal effert when assigned a group project
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:24 pm

lol classic [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I couldn't agree more

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just believe Eric sparked the entire thing. Whether you’re at school or work, you can tell almost right away the leaders and followers. Did not multiple people say Dylan was a follower in school? Who fired more shots on that day. Who kick started everything? Who wore a shirt that said Natural Selection? Who was the first one to get up and go to the gas station? Cullen is off on a few things but not on the fact both did this for two very different reasons.

Didn’t Eric say this?

"I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back," says Harris. "I can make you believe anything."

Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.


It's interesting because I have never heard from kids at school that Eric was particularly manipulative. He pulled the wool over the eyes of adults but a lot of his peers were turned off by him.

I think Devon is the one who said Eric copied Dylan's style of dress and that Eric told Dylan he was his only friend. You have someone with such low self esteem and depression and someone like Eric who gives Dylan a safe place to express his anger, you get a volatile situation.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:03 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.

Well is it much of a stretch to assume Dylan wanted to kill people independently of Eric's thoughts on the matter?

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just believe Eric sparked the entire thing. Whether you’re at school or work, you can tell almost right away the leaders and followers. Did not multiple people say Dylan was a follower in school? Who fired more shots on that day. Who kick started everything? Who wore a shirt that said Natural Selection? Who was the first one to get up and go to the gas station? Cullen is off on a few things but not on the fact both did this for two very different reasons.

Didn’t Eric say this?

"I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back," says Harris. "I can make you believe anything."

Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.

Eric couldn't have "sparked the whole thing". Dylan was talking about a massacre months and months before Eric.

Dylan wasn't a follower. He didn't copy anybody. He was a trend setter if anything. Eric copied Dylan's sense of style/dress code and this is evident if you read between the lines.

Dylan also wanted a "love" so he could replicate NBK. He was obsessed with Mickey as you can see from his glasses and style of dress. He probably thought he looked like him, too.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.

Well is it much of a stretch to assume Dylan wanted to kill people independently of Eric's thoughts on the matter?
Not at all, evidence suggests this is plausible.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:47 am

I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:59 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.
Dylan manipulated people as much if not more than Eric did though. Eric was more vocal about it because I feel he was more naive than Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:29 am

There’s never going to be a clear cut answer to anything surrounding this tragedy but I do know I’m open minded when it comes to things but not murder.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
There’s never going to be a clear cut answer to anything surrounding this tragedy but I do know I’m open minded when it comes to things but not murder.
But they were both murderers. Dylan didn't kill as many people as Eric because he had worse guns than him. They both walked the halls and peered into classrooms after the library carnage and both of them didn't attempt to kill anybody else.

I think they really were just kids that had no idea what the hell they were doing. They didn't know what blood and gore looked like. They didn't know it was nothing like the movies.

But, after Eric killed Rachel Scott it was too late. There was simply no turning back.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:32 am

eldigato wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just believe Eric sparked the entire thing. Whether you’re at school or work, you can tell almost right away the leaders and followers. Did not multiple people say Dylan was a follower in school? Who fired more shots on that day. Who kick started everything? Who wore a shirt that said Natural Selection? Who was the first one to get up and go to the gas station? Cullen is off on a few things but not on the fact both did this for two very different reasons.

Didn’t Eric say this?

"I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back," says Harris. "I can make you believe anything."

Why is it a stretch he made Dylan believe it was okay to kill people before taking his own life? It’s not.


dylan knew killing was wrong and he wanted to kill. they both came up with the idea dylan is jut that kid that does minimal effert when assigned a group project


Agreed. Dylan was a well known slacker when he could get away with it.  He even tried to do it during his Diversion program.

He slacked on damn near everything. Well besides cruelty. On 4/20 Dylan had plenty of that.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.


I for one would be more scared of someone who NO ONE ever expected was hiding a very dark side. Which was Dylan. He did have most everyone fooled. Most thought he was this sweet, soft spoken, mild mannered guy,  when underneath he was just as soul sick and mentally twisted as Eric.

Eric could barely keep his rages in check. None of his friends were all that surprised when they found out he was involved. I have ALWAYS said that Dylan was better at manipulation when compared to Eric. Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing.  While Eric had problems that everyone could see or sense on some level.

I would much rather deal with someone like Eric. At least you knew he had issues and wouldn't have been completely blindsided when he lost what little control he had.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:25 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.


I for one would be more scared of someone who NO ONE ever expected was hiding a very dark side. Which was Dylan. He did have most everyone fooled. Most thought he was this sweet, soft spoken, mild mannered guy,  when underneath he was just as soul sick and mentally twisted as Eric.

Eric could barely keep his rages in check. None of his friends were all that surprised when they found out he was involved. I have ALWAYS said that Dylan was better at manipulation when compared to Eric. Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing.  While Eric had problems that everyone could see or sense on some level.

I would much rather deal with someone like Eric. At least you knew he had issues and wouldn't have been completely blindsided when he lost what little control he had.

I get the vibe that Eric fooled more of the adults in his life than his peers. Where as Dylan fooled everyone.

I think that's why he was such a good listener. If he shared too much he may slip up and not be able to hide his feelings. Better to be looked at as quiet than have people realize how fucked up he was. He even says in his journal that he was pretty screwed up and didn't know when it happened.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.


I for one would be more scared of someone who NO ONE ever expected was hiding a very dark side. Which was Dylan. He did have most everyone fooled. Most thought he was this sweet, soft spoken, mild mannered guy,  when underneath he was just as soul sick and mentally twisted as Eric.

Eric could barely keep his rages in check. None of his friends were all that surprised when they found out he was involved. I have ALWAYS said that Dylan was better at manipulation when compared to Eric. Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing.  While Eric had problems that everyone could see or sense on some level.

I would much rather deal with someone like Eric. At least you knew he had issues and wouldn't have been completely blindsided when he lost what little control he had.

I get the vibe that Eric fooled more of the adults in his life than his peers. Where as Dylan fooled everyone.

I think that's why he was such a good listener. If he shared too much he may slip up and not be able to hide his feelings. Better to be looked at as quiet than have people realize how fucked up he was. He even says in his journal that he was pretty screwed up and didn't know when it happened.

Exactly. Yet he was very much aware of the fact he was f*cked up mentally.

Dylan was said to have worn his dark shades alot as well, even indoors. I think he likely did this to hide behind them, to hide the anger and disdain he was feeling. He may have been sad/lonely/longing for love, etc. But no one can say he wasn't filled with hate too.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:58 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.


I for one would be more scared of someone who NO ONE ever expected was hiding a very dark side. Which was Dylan. He did have most everyone fooled. Most thought he was this sweet, soft spoken, mild mannered guy,  when underneath he was just as soul sick and mentally twisted as Eric.

Eric could barely keep his rages in check. None of his friends were all that surprised when they found out he was involved. I have ALWAYS said that Dylan was better at manipulation when compared to Eric. Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing.  While Eric had problems that everyone could see or sense on some level.

I would much rather deal with someone like Eric. At least you knew he had issues and wouldn't have been completely blindsided when he lost what little control he had.

I get the vibe that Eric fooled more of the adults in his life than his peers. Where as Dylan fooled everyone.

I think that's why he was such a good listener. If he shared too much he may slip up and not be able to hide his feelings. Better to be looked at as quiet than have people realize how fucked up he was. He even says in his journal that he was pretty screwed up and didn't know when it happened.

Exactly. Yet he was very much aware of the fact he was f*cked up mentally.

Dylan was said to have worn his dark shades alot as well, even indoors. I think he likely did this to hide behind them, to hide the anger and disdain he was feeling. He may have been sad/lonely/longing for love, etc. But no one can say he wasn't filled with hate too.

Agreed.

I still think the prom picture is painful

Though he doesn’t seem angry in the picture from his moms bday, even though I think Sue said he annoyed.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:05 am

I think the only reason Eric seemed to be "leading" them on the 20th was the fact that his dad was military and he wanted it to seem somewhat like a military type raid.

People stated that Eric was shouting out orders like "cover me" or "shoot over there". And Dylan did it. I don't think Dylan did that to be a follower I just think because Eric had a more military background he deferred to him to make those kinds of decisions

And on top of that, during the planning, it seems like Eric did more because Eric DID do more. And the reason for that? Dylan was lazy. He didn't want to do more than he had to. He would rather sit and stew over his "misfortunes" than do anything about it. He didn't want to do any work. So who had to build the crickets and the bombs? Eric did.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:08 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the only reason Eric seemed to be "leading" them on the 20th was the fact that his dad was military and he wanted it to seem somewhat like a military type raid.

People stated that Eric was shouting out orders like "cover me" or "shoot over there".  And Dylan did it.  I don't think Dylan did that to be a follower I just think because Eric had a more military background he deferred to him to make those kinds of decisions

And on top of that, during the planning, it seems like Eric did more because Eric DID do more.  And the reason for that?  Dylan was lazy.  He didn't want to do more than he had to.  He would rather sit and stew over his "misfortunes" than do anything about it.  He didn't want to do any work.  So who had to build the crickets and the bombs?  Eric did.


Agreed on all points.

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Life asked Death, "Why do people love me, but hate you?"  Death responded, "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am a painful truth."

                                                                                                                                                                                      -Unknown

My heart has been so badly broken and mended again. Stronger than ever because of its dreadful wounds that I thought it could never break again. But at the sight of his face, at the knowledge that he was taking his leave forever, beyond death, it shattered.
                                                                                                                                                                                -Jeanne Kalogridis

I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other.
           -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:12 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the only reason Eric seemed to be "leading" them on the 20th was the fact that his dad was military and he wanted it to seem somewhat like a military type raid.

People stated that Eric was shouting out orders like "cover me" or "shoot over there".  And Dylan did it.  I don't think Dylan did that to be a follower I just think because Eric had a more military background he deferred to him to make those kinds of decisions

And on top of that, during the planning, it seems like Eric did more because Eric DID do more.  And the reason for that?  Dylan was lazy.  He didn't want to do more than he had to.  He would rather sit and stew over his "misfortunes" than do anything about it.  He didn't want to do any work.  So who had to build the crickets and the bombs?  Eric did.

Exactly. I find their to do lists in a way telling. Dylan was more concerned with his pants and looking cool than actually doing anything.

I think pretty much everything was hidden at Eric’s. One of the guns was at Dylan’s and I think one pipe bomb (was it Vodkas vengeance? )
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:14 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the only reason Eric seemed to be "leading" them on the 20th was the fact that his dad was military and he wanted it to seem somewhat like a military type raid.

People stated that Eric was shouting out orders like "cover me" or "shoot over there".  And Dylan did it.  I don't think Dylan did that to be a follower I just think because Eric had a more military background he deferred to him to make those kinds of decisions

And on top of that, during the planning, it seems like Eric did more because Eric DID do more.  And the reason for that?  Dylan was lazy.  He didn't want to do more than he had to.  He would rather sit and stew over his "misfortunes" than do anything about it.  He didn't want to do any work.  So who had to build the crickets and the bombs?  Eric did.


Agreed on all points.  

Besides the obvious laziness or lack of enthusiasm on Dylan's part. Wasn't it also because Dylan was for long time under a lot of scrutiny from his parents who were looking through his room until the end of the Program he and Eric had to attend? The fact that Eric did more work might as well be caused by the fact that he had more opportunities than Dylan did in his house. Tom worked from home and Sue was in work only 4 days a week.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:49 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the only reason Eric seemed to be "leading" them on the 20th was the fact that his dad was military and he wanted it to seem somewhat like a military type raid.

People stated that Eric was shouting out orders like "cover me" or "shoot over there".  And Dylan did it.  I don't think Dylan did that to be a follower I just think because Eric had a more military background he deferred to him to make those kinds of decisions

And on top of that, during the planning, it seems like Eric did more because Eric DID do more.  And the reason for that?  Dylan was lazy.  He didn't want to do more than he had to.  He would rather sit and stew over his "misfortunes" than do anything about it.  He didn't want to do any work.  So who had to build the crickets and the bombs?  Eric did.


Agreed on all points.  

Besides the obvious laziness or lack of enthusiasm on Dylan's part. Wasn't it also because Dylan was for long time under a lot of scrutiny from his parents who were looking through his room until the end of the Program he and Eric had to attend? The fact that Eric did more work might as well be caused by the fact that he had more opportunities than Dylan did in his house. Tom worked from home and Sue was in work only 4 days a week.

I wouldn't say a lot of scrutiny. After the incident in Jan they did check his room but only a handful of times and they did not check very well. Even if that were the case Dylan had many opportunities to do things outside the home. For example, Eric needed help to get the black powder out of the fireworks because there were so many needed. Dylan didn't help. He had to find other friends to help him. I am sure Dylan didn't help purely because it was a boring act and he just didn't want to do it.

Eric had a stay at home mom as well. He did have a basement seemingly to himself but I am sure his mom was home a lot

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric was a psychopath, then Dylan was a heartless prick   Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:57 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I know Dylan is as guilty but somebody like Eric should scare people more. They beat to their own drum and manipulate people. Even the way he pulled one over on his therapist and took joy in fooling others leads me to believe he probably had no remorse or problem in fooling his own friends.


I for one would be more scared of someone who NO ONE ever expected was hiding a very dark side. Which was Dylan. He did have most everyone fooled. Most thought he was this sweet, soft spoken, mild mannered guy,  when underneath he was just as soul sick and mentally twisted as Eric.

Eric could barely keep his rages in check. None of his friends were all that surprised when they found out he was involved. I have ALWAYS said that Dylan was better at manipulation when compared to Eric. Dylan was the wolf in sheep's clothing.  While Eric had problems that everyone could see or sense on some level.

I would much rather deal with someone like Eric. At least you knew he had issues and wouldn't have been completely blindsided when he lost what little control he had.

I get the vibe that Eric fooled more of the adults in his life than his peers. Where as Dylan fooled everyone.

I think that's why he was such a good listener. If he shared too much he may slip up and not be able to hide his feelings. Better to be looked at as quiet than have people realize how fucked up he was. He even says in his journal that he was pretty screwed up and didn't know when it happened.

Exactly. Yet he was very much aware of the fact he was f*cked up mentally.

Dylan was said to have worn his dark shades alot as well, even indoors. I think he likely did this to hide behind them, to hide the anger and disdain he was feeling. He may have been sad/lonely/longing for love, etc. But no one can say he wasn't filled with hate too.
In the "Eric Harris Inside Columbine" video I found that for the split second you see Dylan you can almost see the rage in his eyes. This is probably one of the rare times you see him without his sunglasses on.

It always struck me how hateful he looked for the tiny amount of time you saw him in the video. It's why I just cannot agree Dylan was a sad little follower, he was as angry as Eric and he expressed it more openly at times than he did.
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