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 Causes of columbine

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PostSubject: Causes of columbine   Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:45 pm

why do you think columbine happened? what were the factors and decisions.

gonna rule out some stupid ones

Doom
doom is played by millions so by your logic you would be dead. the game isn't even that violent. about every other teen in the 90s played doom or duke nukem or something similar. people still play the original doom games today. doom didn't make them shoot up a school, that's stupid.

Music
Millions of people also enjoy KMFDM and Rammstein. Both bands don't have much "evil" lyrics. Dylan kinda like marilyn in a way of that 1 cd you own/ song in your playlist / song on the radio that you don't mind but wouldn't listen to if you could listen to something else. Eric probably didn't like manson...

Eric was a psychopath/sociopath
do i need to explain? this isn't a fucking hollywood movie. most psychopaths and sociopaths never kill and some try to improve themselves and it's a hard thing to live with. yeah eric just convinced a kid to basically become infamous forever. no. just no.

the government did it/multiple shooters
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no. the shooters didn't even use any assault weapons, their 9mms sucked and their shotguns were so sawed off they couldn't hit someone from 1 foot away. not everything is about you. also if there were multiple shooters why didn't more than 13 die, if there were fully autos surely more than 13 would die. the brain gets stuff mixed together in a traumatic situation, your in panic mode.

the ssris did it
no. i take zoloft and concerta, haven't hurt anyone.



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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:51 pm

also dylan was much more vicious during the attack. he killed less because his weapons suck. the tec 9 seems like one of those things that looks cool but actually is complete sh*t. kinda a scam. it kept jamming during the massacre. a glock looks boring but it works good from what i know.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:18 am

eldigato wrote:
why do you think columbine happened? what were the factors and decisions.

I think discussing why it happened might take hundreds of pages to go over. There is a lot to consider.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:49 am

Hi guys, first post.

The incident was a tragedy that makes me too sad to think about in depth right now. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:08 am

I don't think Dylan was a follower. Furthermore, I think Dylan convinced Eric it was a great idea to carry this out.

Eric was lost and angry. Dylan's plan opened up a whole new door for him; one that lead to murder and mayhem.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think Dylan convinced Eric it was a great idea to carry this out.

I don't think Eric was really convinced by Dylan. Eric was angry and wanted to lash out, but didn't quite know how. Dylan gave him the idea and Eric thought it was great without much persuading, I think. I also think that while Dylan was the one to come up with the idea of going on a killing spree first, the bombs were Eric's idea (although not an original one; he got the idea from Timothy McVeigh).

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
why do you think columbine happened? what were the factors and decisions.

I think discussing why it happened might take hundreds of pages to go over. There is a lot to consider.

And so we have!!! I don't think we've hit 100 pages though.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:15 pm

I think it comes down to two powerless people wanting to feel powerful and scary. Their interest in being "Godlike" really cements this IMO. As a former edgy teenager who wanted to go on killing sprees with my then equally as edgy teen boyfriend I can say these thoughts came more frequently when I felt weak and had no control (or felt I had none) and I, like them, wanted to have people fear/respect me. I think they fed off of each others bullshit and it got too deep to where one of them/both of them felt that if they backed out they'd be seen as "pussies". And image was everything to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:16 pm

@Pho3nix wrote:
I think it comes down to two powerless people wanting to feel powerful and scary. Their interest in being "Godlike" really cements this IMO. As a former edgy teenager who wanted to go on killing sprees with my then equally as edgy teen boyfriend I can say these thoughts came more frequently when I felt weak and had no control (or felt I had none) and I, like them, wanted to have people fear/respect me. I think they fed off of each others bullshit and it got too deep to where one of them/both of them felt that if they backed out they'd be seen as "pussies". And image was everything to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:38 am

I think a another thing that (for me at least) is evidence for the fact that Eric was not a Psycho/ sociopath is his apology. From the transcript of the basment tape taken on 4/20/99 (evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) Eric says "yea... Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. I know my mom and dad will be... Just fucking shocked beyond belief. I'm sorry, all right. I can't help it". this admission of a guiltly conscience and him knowing it was wrong, for me at least, can be evidence that he was not a psychopath. But take my opinion with a grain of salt


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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't think we've hit 100 pages though.

We might.  Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:54 am

@Okay-Okay wrote:
I think a another thing that (for me at least) is evidence for the fact that Eric was not a Psycho/ sociopath is his apology. From the transcript of the basment tape taken on 4/20/99 (evidence item #333) Eric says "yea... Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. I know my mom and dad will be... Just fucking shocked beyond belief. I'm sorry, all right. I can't help it". this admission of a guiltly conscience and him knowing it was wrong, for me at least, can be evidence that he was not a psychopath. But take my opinion with a grain of salt


didn't he burst into tears? their personas were so obviously fake but they expected to kill hundreds and wanted 2 look cool Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:20 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think a another thing that (for me at least) is evidence for the fact that Eric was not a Psycho/ sociopath is his apology. From the transcript of the basment tape taken on 4/20/99 (evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) Eric says "yea... Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. I know my mom and dad will be... Just fucking shocked beyond belief. I'm sorry, all right. I can't help it". this admission of a guiltly conscience and him knowing it was wrong, for me at least, can be evidence that he was not a psychopath. But take my opinion with a grain of salt

Good point! Did Dylan even really apologize? All he said was something hollow (IMO) about being "apologetic" but then goes on about himself. Eric seems to genuinely have second thoughts or at least is more concerned about what this'll do to his family.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:16 am

eldigato wrote:

didn't he burst into tears? their personas were so obviously fake but they expected to kill hundreds and wanted 2 look cool [smiley][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On one of the tapes Eric was alone in his car and started to cry slightly before turning off the camera. I found all the transcripts from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Good point! Did Dylan even really apologize? All he said was something hollow (IMO) about being "apologetic" but then goes on about himself. Eric seems to genuinely have second thoughts or at least is more concerned about what this'll do to his family.

On tape [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], 4/20/99 Dylan said "Hey mom. Gotta go. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. So I'm gone. Good-bye. Reb..." 

Dylans goodbye seems a little more rehearsed to me, but it's also difficult to get an emotional read just from transcripts. Jeez I wish someone would at least release the full audio clips of the tapes. It's a lot easier to read people when you can hear the tone of their voice.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:11 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Good point! Did Dylan even really apologize? All he said was something hollow (IMO) about being "apologetic" but then goes on about himself. Eric seems to genuinely have second thoughts or at least is more concerned about what this'll do to his family.

On tape [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], 4/20/99 Dylan said "Hey mom. Gotta go. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. So I'm gone. Good-bye. Reb..." 

Dylans goodbye seems a little more rehearsed to me, but it's also difficult to get an emotional read just from transcripts. Jeez I wish someone would at least release the full audio clips of the tapes. It's a lot easier to read people when you can hear the tone of their voice.

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I will agree that Dylan seemed quite cold when he was saying his goodbyes. But whether is was caused by not giving a f*ck on his part or if he was just nervous, scared, etc. is hard to say.

Eric also appeared to be more genuine, even slightly remorseful. BUT who knows. I mean if he was so concerned about how it would effect his family then he wouldn't have followed through with the plan right?

As others have said, just being able to read a transcript will only give you the words they said. It wont give you any clue as to any emotions in their voices or on their faces. If anyone ever leaks these tapes I would probably watch them countless times to try to pick up and pick apart any emotions E&D may have shown.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:18 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think a another thing that (for me at least) is evidence for the fact that Eric was not a Psycho/ sociopath is his apology. From the transcript of the basment tape taken on 4/20/99 (evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) Eric says "yea... Everyone I love, I'm really sorry about all this. I know my mom and dad will be... Just fucking shocked beyond belief. I'm sorry, all right. I can't help it". this admission of a guiltly conscience and him knowing it was wrong, for me at least, can be evidence that he was not a psychopath. But take my opinion with a grain of salt

Good point! Did Dylan even really apologize? All he said was something hollow (IMO) about being "apologetic" but then goes on about himself. Eric seems to genuinely have second thoughts or at least is more concerned about what this'll do to his family.

Sorry guys, say what you will about Dave Cullen and the "psychopath" thing, but E&D's "apologies" were both pure bullshit IMO....you don't apologize for something you're about to do then do it. That's bullshit by ANY measure.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Sorry guys, say what you will about Dave Cullen and the "psychopath" thing, but E&D's "apologies" were both pure bullshit IMO....you don't apologize for something you're about to do then do it.  That's bullshit by ANY measure.  



I can somewhat agree with you. I mean if they were seriously worried about how their parents would be left to deal with the fallout, then they wouldn't have done it. BUT I also think that by that time they likely thought it was to late to turn back. I am on the fence about it.  scratch

This is just another thing about Columbine that keeps you guessing.  Question

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Sorry guys, say what you will about Dave Cullen and the "psychopath" thing, but E&D's "apologies" were both pure bullshit IMO....you don't apologize for something you're about to do then do it.  That's bullshit by ANY measure.  



I can somewhat agree with you. I mean if they were seriously worried about how their parents would be left to deal with the fallout, then they wouldn't have done it. BUT I also think that by that time they likely thought it was to late to turn back. I am on the fence about it.  scratch

This is just another thing about Columbine that keeps you guessing.  Question

Sue talks a little bit about how Dylan sounded but she mostly focused on her own feelings watching TBT

"Hey mom. Gotta go. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. So I'm gone. Good-bye. Reb..."

He is apologizing for what they will go through after, not for what he and Eric were going to do.

I think they had different motivations and reasons for going through with it. Their goal was the same though. I think it was the toxic school environment, their own mentality (if you want to call it mental illness or brain health, I believe Dylan did have depression) They were also still just kids. Eric was barely 18
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:37 pm

I think the fact that you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] take medicine and haven't done anything doesn't mean that medicine cant be a factor. It could be but then probably a small one. I've taken the same as Eric took and it does make you kind of detached imo.

I think one of the main causes is alienation and the fact that they made it their "thing" and further alienated themselves. That made them more likely to rationalize thoughts and feelings that didn't fit in with society and the school.

An other one is puberty + the strong male dominance hierarchy at school. I believe this has more influence than the "virgin rage" factor.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:48 pm

eldigato wrote:
also dylan was much more vicious during the attack. he killed less because his weapons suck. the tec 9 seems like one of those things that looks cool but actually is complete sh*t. kinda a scam. it kept jamming during the massacre. a glock looks boring but it works good from what i know.

Does anyone actually know how many Eric and Dylan killed individually? I mean did Eric kill like 9 and Dylan only 4? Is there a trustworthy source of this?
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
also dylan was much more vicious during the attack. he killed less because his weapons suck. the tec 9 seems like one of those things that looks cool but actually is complete sh*t. kinda a scam. it kept jamming during the massacre. a glock looks boring but it works good from what i know.

Does anyone actually know how many Eric and Dylan killed individually? I mean did Eric kill like 9 and Dylan only 4? Is there a trustworthy source of this?

I've seen a chart that breaks it down.

Here is the thread

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even though Lauren was shot by both Eric and Dylan it seems like Dylan shot the fatal wound Sad It's hard to read because while it is scary to any extent and very sad what Lauren went through was so brutal. She was also the one who was trying to comfort the girls under the table like Val Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:31 pm

@munchkinphone wrote:
I think the fact that you @eldigato take medicine and haven't done anything doesn't mean that medicine cant be a factor. It could be but then probably a small one. I've taken the same as Eric took and it does make you kind of detached imo.

I think one of the main causes is alienation and the fact that they made it their "thing" and further alienated themselves. That made them more likely to rationalize thoughts and feelings that didn't fit in with society and the school.

An other one is puberty + the strong male dominance hierarchy at school. I believe this has more influence than the "virgin rage" factor.

weird, eric took zoloft, i take that. my friend takes luvox and has no problems. i also take concerta(ritalin extended release basically) and have had no problems. maybe its just about finding the right medications. if your doctor just wants money stop seeing him and find a better one. if you feel detached just throw the med's in the trash and contact your doctor. if your in a psychosis when it wears off and your aware of it throw em out immediately and yeah also someone like a family or girlfriend/boyfriend might notice that too and help you.


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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:32 pm

@Screamingophelia wrote:
@TheGoodGuy wrote:
eldigato wrote:
also dylan was much more vicious during the attack. he killed less because his weapons suck. the tec 9 seems like one of those things that looks cool but actually is complete sh*t. kinda a scam. it kept jamming during the massacre. a glock looks boring but it works good from what i know.

Does anyone actually know how many Eric and Dylan killed individually? I mean did Eric kill like 9 and Dylan only 4? Is there a trustworthy source of this?

I've seen a chart that breaks it down.

Here is the thread

http://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/t1501-victims-who-was-shot-with-which-weapon-grisly-thread-be-warned

Even though Lauren was shot by both Eric and Dylan it seems like Dylan shot the fatal wound Sad It's hard to read because while it is scary to any extent and very sad what Lauren went through was so brutal. She was also the one who was trying to comfort the girls under the table like Val Crying or Very sad

wasnt lauren kicked by dylan? reading their injuries makes me sad and sick to the stomach and its just words. poor kids, just wanted an education but were in the library or outside at the wrong time.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:42 pm

eldigato wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the fact that you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] take medicine and haven't done anything doesn't mean that medicine cant be a factor. It could be but then probably a small one. I've taken the same as Eric took and it does make you kind of detached imo.

I think one of the main causes is alienation and the fact that they made it their "thing" and further alienated themselves. That made them more likely to rationalize thoughts and feelings that didn't fit in with society and the school.

An other one is puberty + the strong male dominance hierarchy at school. I believe this has more influence than the "virgin rage" factor.

weird, eric took zoloft, i take that. my friend takes luvox and has no problems. i also take concerta(ritalin extended release basically) and have had no problems. maybe its just about finding the right medications. if your doctor just wants money stop seeing him and find a better one. if you feel detached just throw the med's in the trash and contact your doctor. if your in a psychosis when it wears off and your aware of it throw em out immediately and yeah also someone like a family or girlfriend/boyfriend might notice that too and help you.

I took luvox and I felt it made me kind of robotic which helped be to not feel depressed but you know.. also made me not feel so many positive emotions. However it was better than always feeling like you want to die.
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
eldigato wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I think the fact that you [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] take medicine and haven't done anything doesn't mean that medicine cant be a factor. It could be but then probably a small one. I've taken the same as Eric took and it does make you kind of detached imo.

I think one of the main causes is alienation and the fact that they made it their "thing" and further alienated themselves. That made them more likely to rationalize thoughts and feelings that didn't fit in with society and the school.

An other one is puberty + the strong male dominance hierarchy at school. I believe this has more influence than the "virgin rage" factor.

weird, eric took zoloft, i take that. my friend takes luvox and has no problems. i also take concerta(ritalin extended release basically) and have had no problems. maybe its just about finding the right medications. if your doctor just wants money stop seeing him and find a better one. if you feel detached just throw the med's in the trash and contact your doctor. if your in a psychosis when it wears off and your aware of it throw em out immediately and yeah also someone like a family or girlfriend/boyfriend might notice that too and help you.

I took luvox and I felt it made me kind of robotic which helped be to not feel depressed but you know.. also made me not feel so many positive emotions. However it was better than always feeling like you want to die.

I took Zoloft when I was in college and it made my anger issues worse. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:23 pm

@Screamingophelia wrote:
@munchkinphone wrote:
eldigato wrote:
@munchkinphone wrote:
I think the fact that you @eldigato take medicine and haven't done anything doesn't mean that medicine cant be a factor. It could be but then probably a small one. I've taken the same as Eric took and it does make you kind of detached imo.

I think one of the main causes is alienation and the fact that they made it their "thing" and further alienated themselves. That made them more likely to rationalize thoughts and feelings that didn't fit in with society and the school.

An other one is puberty + the strong male dominance hierarchy at school. I believe this has more influence than the "virgin rage" factor.

weird, eric took zoloft, i take that. my friend takes luvox and has no problems. i also take concerta(ritalin extended release basically) and have had no problems. maybe its just about finding the right medications. if your doctor just wants money stop seeing him and find a better one. if you feel detached just throw the med's in the trash and contact your doctor. if your in a psychosis when it wears off and your aware of it throw em out immediately and yeah also someone like a family or girlfriend/boyfriend might notice that too and help you.

I took luvox and I felt it made me kind of robotic which helped be to not feel depressed but you know.. also made me not feel so many positive emotions. However it was better than always feeling like you want to die.

I took Zoloft when I was in college and it made my anger issues worse. Sad

wow, what do you take now? zoloft is ok-ish but i'd rather take something of higher quality
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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Sun May 13, 2018 7:41 am

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Im not a psychologist but I'm 100%sure Eric had borderline he had his personal REB, relationship issues with his parents basically he had everything what speaks for borderline. He was misdiagnosed.
Read the ratings of his doc. If this is happening now same could have been in the past. Why his parents didn't get the records of Dr. Albert about Eric's sessions?
That's still today the case.
Even Eric’s parents blamed this doc.

he is a fraud to me who sucks money out of his patients wallets.
I wish the ratings were already in 80s

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Sun May 13, 2018 12:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Im not a psychologist but I'm 100%sure Eric had borderline  he had his personal REB, relationship issues with his parents  basically he had everything what speaks for borderline. He was misdiagnosed. 

I always pegged Dylan as a person with BPD.

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PostSubject: Re: Causes of columbine   Sun May 13, 2018 1:00 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Im not a psychologist but I'm 100%sure Eric had borderline  he had his personal REB, relationship issues with his parents  basically he had everything what speaks for borderline. He was misdiagnosed. 

I always pegged Dylan as a person with BPD.

I heard someone say avoidant personality disorder

Ive always wondered about the feelings he had about not feeling human about this entity that overtook him.
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