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 Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh

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ShadowedGoddess
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   October 29th 2018, 11:29 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Also does 13 books on this subject seem obsessive to you? scratch  Asking for a friend! Haha

Nooo...  Rolling Eyes let's just say your friend want to cross-reference information to make sure they are reliable. ;)

Which one is your favorite for now?

Hands down its Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy Painting. To my knowledge Wendy is the only person to date that has gone through every piece of evidence that is allowed to the public, also all the case archives.

It truly shows in her mammoth of a book! But its the most in depth one I have found so far on McVeigh and the case.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I also want to read A Mother's Reckoning but I prefer to start reading something about McVeigh (I feel it's like choosing between a great blockbuster with a charismatic and badass hero with a tortured mind, explosions and stuff whereas on the other hand you've got a drama film about two lonely teenagers in a desperate need to be heard and understood).


Amazon has the Kindle and paperback versions. There are a few copies on Ebay as well.Very Happy

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin


Last edited by ShadowedGoddess on October 30th 2018, 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   October 29th 2018, 11:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Also does 13 books on this subject seem obsessive to you? scratch  Asking for a friend! Haha

Nooo...  Rolling Eyes let's just say your friend want to cross-reference information to make sure they are reliable. ;)

Which one is your favorite for now?

Hands down its Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy Painting. To my knowledge Wendy is the only person to date that has gone through every piece of evidence that is allowed to the public, also all the case archives.

It truly shows in her mammoth of a book! But its the most in depth one I have found so far on McVeigh and the case.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I also want to read A Mother's Reckoning but I prefer to start reading something about McVeigh (I feel it's like choosing between a great blockbuster with a charismatic and badass hero with a tortured mind, explosions and stuff whereas on the other hand you've got a drama film about two lonely teenagers in a desperate need to be heard and understood).


Amazon has the Kindle and paperback versions. There are few copies on Ebay as well.Very Happy


See how you perverted my mind! It all starts with a single book and soon I will create a club in my "McVeigh library" and discuss conspiracy theories...
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   October 29th 2018, 11:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Also does 13 books on this subject seem obsessive to you? scratch  Asking for a friend! Haha

Nooo...  Rolling Eyes let's just say your friend want to cross-reference information to make sure they are reliable. ;)

Which one is your favorite for now?

Hands down its Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy Painting. To my knowledge Wendy is the only person to date that has gone through every piece of evidence that is allowed to the public, also all the case archives.

It truly shows in her mammoth of a book! But its the most in depth one I have found so far on McVeigh and the case.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I also want to read A Mother's Reckoning but I prefer to start reading something about McVeigh (I feel it's like choosing between a great blockbuster with a charismatic and badass hero with a tortured mind, explosions and stuff whereas on the other hand you've got a drama film about two lonely teenagers in a desperate need to be heard and understood).


Amazon has the Kindle and paperback versions. There are a few copies on Ebay as well.Very Happy


See how you perverted my mind! It all starts with a single book and soon I will create a club in my "McVeigh library" and discuss conspiracy theories...


BAHAHAHAHA! LOL

_________________
''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 6th 2018, 9:32 pm

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Small update. Scrounged around until I found a slightly better quality pic of Tim holding the baby. Also determined that the baby was Jason Torres Nichols. Terry Nichols second wife Marife Torres's son. Terry met and married Marife through a Mail Order Bride service but she became pregnant with Jason sometime after she married Terry and before being able to make the move from the Philippines to the US some many months later. Terry accepted Jason as his own.

Jason Torres Nichols died by suffocation when he was around two years old. He was found unresponsive with a bag over his head. Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

The story surrounding Jason's death is kinda vague, the details of who found him, who called 911 etc. change depending on what sources you are working with. Some say Marife herself found Jason, other variations say that either Tim or Terry found him first. But all say that Tim started CPR and that Terry joined in to try and resuscitate Jason until the paramedics arrived. Jason's death was investigated, no bruises, injuries, or signs of trauma were found on his body, so his death was ruled accidental.

Marife Nichols also had a short lived affair with Tim while he and Terry were supposedly planning the attack.  That info later came out during Terry's trial.


Still working on the Suspicious Deaths Series as well, these things sometimes take forever to track down reliable info on. Smile

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 7th 2018, 4:29 am

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Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

What is your own theory on this?

I think it was an accident. I may be very naive but I find it hard to believe that parents can kill their baby. I know it happened before but in this case I don't believe they could have done that. Neither can I imagine Timothy killing the baby. Maybe his charisma and political opinions influenced me but, even if in the end he actually ended up killing babies I don't think McVeigh was mean to the point that he could murder a baby directly, even if he had reasons to do so. Marife obviously knew them better than I do but she was probably a bit paranoid. Or she tried to blame others for something she could not prevent and felt guilty for, despite her being the mother.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 7th 2018, 4:55 am

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Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

What is your own theory on this?

I think it was an accident. I may be very naive but I find it hard to believe that parents can kill their baby. I know it happened before but in this case I don't believe they could have done that. Neither can I imagine Timothy killing the baby. Maybe his charisma and political opinions influenced me but, even if in the end he actually ended up killing babies I don't think McVeigh was mean to the point that he could murder a baby directly, even if he had reasons to do so. Marife obviously knew them better than I do but she was probably a bit paranoid. Or she tried to blame others for something she could not prevent and felt guilty for, despite her being the mother.


I actually think it was just an accident. Everyone who was close to the situation that knew Tim said that Tim often took care of Jason, would change his diapers, give him baths, played with him, ate with him etc. They said Jason loved Tim and the feeling was mutual.

It's true that Tim had a hand in killing the 19 kids that were in the Daycare center that day. But it wasn't up close and personal. He didn't see it happening with his own eyes. I also seriously doubt that he could have suffocated a two year old baby to death that he was used to being around and caring for, one that trusted him completely.  That I just cant believe.

But Marife told many different stories and changed them several times over. Also you have to remember that she did have an affair with Tim later on after Jason's death. Ask yourself this- Would a mother really have sex with a man she thought had killed her child? I would think not.  Evil or Very Mad

Also Terry had accepted Jason as his own, even though Marife had cheated on him. Why would he wait two years then decide to all of a sudden kill Jason for revenge? That just makes no sense to me either. There were no signs of foul play, no indication that Jason had been abused etc. So that all points to it just being a very sad and tragic accident. Crying or Very sad

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 7th 2018, 5:01 am

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But Marife told many different stories and changed them several times over. Also you have to remember that she did have an affair with Tim later on after Jason's death. Ask yourself this- Would a mother really have sex with a man she thought had killed her child? I would think not.  Evil or Very Mad

Also Terry had accepted Jason as his own, even though Marife had cheated on him.

I don't know how she felt after the bombing and trial but all these elements give a pretty bad image of her. She cheated on Terry who still recognized the baby as his own (which is already something incredible), and despite this she had an affair with her husband's friend. I don't know how people at the trial reacted to that but it could have lowered the value of her testimonies.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 7th 2018, 5:04 am

Its true that she did catch a lot of flack, but only on a personal level. It didn't effect the way her testimony was received by the jury.

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 4:06 am

Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 4:22 am

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Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.

Why would he go on a shooting spree?

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 4:34 am

I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 4:39 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.

Why would he go on a shooting spree?


If he decided not to build the bomb, or if he wanted to get extra kills after detonating his bomb.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 6:32 am

Well Tim was a Top Gunner when he was in the ARMY. Like a really good marksman, but this was in a tank. He did will all kinds of awards for this though.

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 6:48 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile

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''I have been astonished that men could die martyrs for religion—I have shuddered at it. I shudder no more—I could be martyred for my religion—Love is my religion—I could die for that.''                                                                                                                                      
                                                        -John Keats (1795-1821)

“Love never dies a natural death. It dies because we don't know how to replenish its source. It dies of blindness and errors and betrayals. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings.”

                                                        - Anaïs Nin
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 8:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile
Yeah I wanted to remind everyone that no matter how much you like/sympathise with McVeigh, he still murdered innocent people.

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"Hungerford must be in a bit of a mess. I wish I had stayed in bed."

-Michael Ryan

"Loneliness has followed me for my whole life."

-Travis Bickle

"I don't have a single friend and I won't in the future. I'll be ignored because I'm ugly. I'm lower than trash because at least the trash gets recycled."

-Tomohiro Katō

"I will become a serial killer, a mad killer. Why? Because I am frustrated and I do not want to die alone, because I have had a shitty life. I want to feel powerful and free just once."

-Richard Durn

"A beautiful environment can be the darkest hell if you have to experience it all alone."

-Elliot Rodger
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   November 19th 2018, 2:35 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile
Yeah I wanted to remind everyone that no matter how much you like/sympathise with McVeigh, he still murdered innocent people.

Thanks, I had never seen this one. Sure, I sympathize with McVeigh but you're right about that, it's important to remember the victims too, and I may sometimes forget what he did. It is the same with mass shooters, sometimes I feel I need to see all the victims again, to keep the balance between how shooters were before the shooting, and all the innocent lives they destroyed.
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