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 Would they really have succeeded after school?

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PostSubject: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:55 pm

I read it so many times, that people write things like "Oh, if they would be still alive, they would laugh about their ideas, they would have families and great jobs..."
Do you really think, they would have success after school? Can you really imagine Dylan, working hard at the university and get a Job and a girlfriend? Or Eric, how he respect the laws and the hierarchy in the Army? I cant.

I think, what awaited them after school, was a downward spiral of suffer and they knew that.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:00 pm

No, they probably both would have been criminals and in and out of jail.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:22 pm

Jenn wrote:
No, they probably both would have been criminals and in and out of jail.
Hmmm....in and out of jail? That sounds like a description of a typical small-time crook for me. I dont think, they would have been so stupid to try a thing like the january break-in again. Especially in case of Dylan, his criminal energy seems to be heavily based on his emotions, so the only crimes, I can think of him are similar to NBK: a connection of murder and suicide.

Eric seemed to have a lot of criminal energy, but I think after the van-break, every following crimes by him would have been based on heavily planning, even if it would not have gone in the mass-murder section.

So if they would have landed in prison, than for the rest of their lives. Just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:26 pm

Well, I hear people saying Eric would have done great things, would have gotten his shit together and would have become an artist or a doctor and had this great life. Do you believe that? Because I certainly don't. I honestly don't think, with Eric's mind set that he would have accomplished anything but a life of crime. I am not sure about Dylan. I think eventually he would have just killed himself.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:26 pm

They could've changed. I mean, every teenager goes thru the stages of archetypal angst and depression like D+E did, but once they become adults, they mature and slowly wane out of the phase of rebelliousness. They were both clever, and had relatively good academic marks. I'm sure Eric would've probably became a game designer like Brooks, and Dylan definitely something to do with computers. Technology was their forte, and they would've been delighted to have seen the various amounts of how technology has increased from the 90's.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:47 am

Well let's consider where they were headed before the shooting. Dylan had been accepted to UA and likely would have gone to college there. The transition for Dylan would not have been good. He knew nobody there (as far as I know). He was uncomfortably shy and would not have made friends easily. He would be completely alone, hundreds of miles from home and from the few people he truly cared about. He was already on the cusp of suicide in high school, and college definitely would have pushed him over. There's no doubt in my mind that Dylan wouldn't have survived college.

Eric on the other hand is a bit hazy for me. He probably would have tried to get in the marines again. Maybe he would follow in his fathers footsteps and make a career out of it. Had he not, I could see him becoming a violent criminal, working some menial job he hates, and being an abusive spouse/father.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:56 am

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
Well let's consider where they were headed before the shooting. Dylan had been accepted to UA and likely would have gone to college there. The transition for Dylan would not have been good. He knew nobody there (as far as I know). He was uncomfortably shy and would not have made friends easily. He would be completely alone, hundreds of miles from home and from the few people he truly cared about. He was already on the cusp of suicide in high school, and college definitely would have pushed him over. There's no doubt in my mind that Dylan wouldn't have survived college.

Eric on the other hand is a bit hazy for me. He probably would have tried to get in the marines again. Maybe he would follow in his fathers footsteps and make a career out of it. Had he not, I could see him becoming a violent criminal, working some menial job he hates, and being an abusive spouse/father.
That sounds about right. But wasn't Dylan supposed to be going to college with one of his friends? I thought that he went to go pick out his dorm with a friend? Maybe he just went along for the ride? I was under the impression that the 2 boys were enrolling together. I don't remember which friend it was though. Nate, maybe?

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:09 am

Nate went to Florida, so probably went to college there.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:08 am

Jenn wrote:
Well, I hear people saying Eric would have done great things, would have gotten his shit together and would have become an artist or a doctor and had this great life. Do you believe that? Because I certainly don't. I honestly don't think, with Eric's mind set that he would have accomplished anything but a life of crime. I am not sure about Dylan. I think eventually he would have just killed himself.
If you meant that, I fully agree.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:40 pm

Jenn wrote:
MarmaladeSkies wrote:
Well let's consider where they were headed before the shooting. Dylan had been accepted to UA and likely would have gone to college there. The transition for Dylan would not have been good. He knew nobody there (as far as I know). He was uncomfortably shy and would not have made friends easily. He would be completely alone, hundreds of miles from home and from the few people he truly cared about. He was already on the cusp of suicide in high school, and college definitely would have pushed him over. There's no doubt in my mind that Dylan wouldn't have survived college.

Eric on the other hand is a bit hazy for me. He probably would have tried to get in the marines again. Maybe he would follow in his fathers footsteps and make a career out of it. Had he not, I could see him becoming a violent criminal, working some menial job he hates, and being an abusive spouse/father.
That sounds about right. But wasn't Dylan supposed to be going to college with one of his friends? I thought that he went to go pick out his dorm with a friend? Maybe he just went along for the ride? I was under the impression that the 2 boys were enrolling together. I don't remember which friend it was though. Nate, maybe?
I think you're spot on about Dylan. The only other thing that I picture with Dylan is him getting in a serious relationship, and ending it with a murder-suicide. I don't think he would have been abusive necessarily, but unable to cope with the emotional ups and downs of a real relationship.

I actually think Eric might be okay in the military. He was familiar with the life to some extent, with his father having been in, and I believe they even lived on base at one time. (Correct me if that's wrong.) I think he might have done well with the strict rules and clear consequences, the ORDER of it all. Everything laid out with no question as to what comes next or what happens in this situation. I've never been in the military, so please speak up if I'm mischaracterizing it in any way. And someone on the board wrote something along the lines of Eric having been the hero in his own stories for so long - maybe if he had the chance to feel like a hero, he would have acted like one.

I may be entirely wrong about this. He may have cracked up even more in that environment. I don't know. Just a thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:48 pm

No NBK from Dylan = he would have hung himself, or he would have went murder-suicide. I think the latter's a little likely
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:43 am

JDM87 wrote:
They could've changed. I mean, every teenager goes thru the stages of archetypal angst and depression like D+E did, but once they become adults, they mature and slowly wane out of the phase of rebelliousness.
I agree with this.  I think they had equal positive potential to grow out of this phase as much as everyone wants to see them with a negatively potential future.   There are a lot of curve balls in life that could have steered them on a completely different path.  Zack Heckler was also depressed and an angry, mischievous kids in school.  His year book quote said "I hate this school."   Yet, around the corner from his misery, Zack met Devon and she helped him through hard times and his life veered off on a different path.  Zack went through his rebellious, angry, depressive phase in school and now he is a VP of a software company!

I think Dylan getting away from the stagnation that was Littleton would've been very good for his depressed state.  It had the potential to be like wiping the Etch a' Sketch slate clean and starting his independent life without the outcast role he resigned himself to in high school.  It would be a fresh start and new potential opportunites abound.  Dylan could be walking  on campus as a completely unknowable to others, turn the corner and bump into someone new, a potential first girl friend perhaps. Someone that could have affected his life in a positive way.  Sure, he would always be suseptible to depression, like many people are, but the fresh external stimulus and the break from his routine with Eric could take the focus off of himself and such a narrow, malignant viewpoint.  Dylan already had the intelligence and smarts in math and computers. A position in the computer industry was the obvious choice. A behind the scenes, creative position would have been perfect for his shy nature. The key with Dylan was getting him out of that rut so that passion for learning and pursuing could resurface.

And Eric, as much as he questioned the rigid rules of society - imposed on him in high school in the emotional/mental developmental stage of an 18 year old he teenager, he contadictorily seemed to live his life by the very rules he said he disliked.  He was pissed at Brooks for being late driving him to school.  He reminded fellow students in the commons "it's 8:16 for starters" - in Eric's brain there was no good reason to be late to class.  He  always completed his homework assignments, applied himself and got good grades.  He was considered a deligent, respectable, responsible employee at work. He had focus and good follow through on goals. ;)  If Eric made it into the marines, he would have had the opportunity to grow out of his self involved angst -  refocused his life, channeled his angry energy in a meaningful, constructive way - abiding by the rigidity, rules and regulations would have been like second nature to him, even though he claimed he is a rebel or resister against it.   It's a shame that his medication put a stop to that obvious path.  I can't help but think that  his mom beats herself up over mentioning it to the recruiter.  As for being a software developer, I think it would've been a lot more difficult to convince Eric that the pursuit of college education would have been satisfying.  Eric had restless energy and the Marines would have been the better choice to temper and channel that.  I see Eric floundering through college unsure whether he's good enough to be the next level of Doom developer. *shrugs*  I think that that might've been a back burner/back pocket side pursuit.

So, from a positive side of things, it would be a matter of breaking the two up, getting them out of their hometown, refocusing the two on things outside of themselves - removing their internalized idle time on themselves in a limited, small minded community  and over time, they could have moved on to another level of emotional development - growing out of angsty, destructive teenage boy energy.  They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:19 am

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
 They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
Your entire post is wonderful. A very interesting perspective. This particular quote at the end stands out the most, however.

I honestly do not agree (at least at this time) that they were irredeemable, and that if they hadn't gone through with their plan that they'd just turn to suicide, murder, or crime otherwise.

The person who was my best friend when I was a teen (and also like a brother; it was entirely platonic and still is) was a petty, idiotic criminal throughout his teens. He also constantly pulled "pranks" at night (some so closely resembling Eric's "mission" logs it is almost scary). He did this with other fair-weather trouble making friends of his for years and years. He was naturally intelligent all the same, and never seemed to use it wisely. Well, he completely turned around as he got into his 20s, and while he isn't a millionaire, and doesn't own his own business, he is working at a very well paying job and has been employed by them for over a decade. He has semi managerial status. He is happy, and is a proud father of two very well adjusted children.

If I were to get into who he ran with as a teenager it would blow your mind. The things they did. Just unbelievable. He was (and still is) very rebellious at the core, and back then he wasn't going to listen to anyone about changing or stopping, even me, who happened to be the only sober voice of reason in his life during those years. He'd just come back and tell me (or call me from jail and tell me) that I was right and he should have listened to me. Despite his individualistic personality, he did a number of moronic things whilst around other idiots simply because they did, and because he worried about what they'd think of him if he didn't.


Even strong personalities, particularly males, can do things that they normally wouldn't during these turbulent and confusing formative years. My friend could have gone even further off the deep end, and he was, at points, suicidal, too. But, everyone is different and things can and do change. Of course, Dylan and Eric may have gotten even worse had they not committed the massacre, but it is not entirely certain. Of course I would like to believe that they would survive, grow, and live decent lives, but my personal feelings aren't just wishful thinking. There is a strong chance that they could have entirely changed, and looked back at the time where they were contemplating mass murder as utterly beyond foreign; not remotely recognizing themselves whilst recollecting that time period.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:25 am

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
 They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
tfsa47090 wrote:
Your entire post is wonderful. A very interesting perspective. This particular quote at the end stands out the most, however.
Oh, my - thank you. Smile  From the description of your friend it is true testimony that teenage boys do have the resilience to mature/evolve and change their life around even when it seems they've hit rock bottom at an early age and it looks grim to everyone else.   The thing about E & D is that they thought they were all grown up, and smarter than their peers and that they'd seen it all and they didn't like what they saw of 'life' from their small tunnel vision perception.  They didn't have the wisdom or emotional maturity to say 'this really sucks but this too shall pass. Gee, you know I'm not the only one feeling like crap."  This is like many teeangers, particularly frustrated, restless teenage boys out there. It's essentially the state of mind they are in - everything is really good or really sucky and they don't get that there's more than meets the eye to life than the mud they're stuck in at the moment.  Only through more experience does that happen.  The unique thing about E & D is that they were a malignant pair; they reinforced one another like a Cult of Two with their own manufactured belief system. They had brain washed themselves to become avengers and then to self destruct afterward - they jointly convinced themselves to throw in the towel before their life even had begun - and underneath that all was probably a goodly amount of fear as to what might be around the corner after high school.  The future possibilities were too much to handle - especially if they had to go their separate ways.   I do think E &D  had as much potential for turning out for the better as much as they did for the worse.  However, that said, I'm not just a blind optimist in their special case.  I think it would've taken something major to put a monkey wrench between the two.  Dylan or Eric would've have needed to meet someone early enough on, some girl that really wow'd them, or another male friend that really struck a chord - someone monumental enough to distract their attention into another direction away from the time spent on their deadly partnership. In a love relationship comes bonding, feelings, caring; this would've reactivated emotions long since numbed. Or.. the parents would've either needed to move or put their son's in different schools:  a cataclysmic change that would've made it harder for them to spend so much time together.  With a new school or location, the opportunities then arise for new friends, influences and experiences to come into play creating potential positive possibilities for them.   Without major changes, things would've continued on as is.  Neither had a good enough,  a meaningful enough reason -no reengaged hopes, dreams or desires - to want to get off the train wreck destiny they were willingly riding on to leave the planet.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:35 am

Quote :
They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
There's a strong correlation between violence and boredom actually. The French have a word for this, ennui, a kind of exquisite boredom and listlessness. It describes a feeling of almost permanent boredom - a feeling that nothing will ever satisfy you.

I think that Eric and Dylan felt this to a large extent and is a major factor in why they chose to go NBK. They were bored -- but worst of all: they never saw themselves being satisfied by anything in life. They felt and believed that it would never get better.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:26 am

I think they both had a chance at a good life. But under certain conditions. There are many "if". They lacked moral support, a positive experience. Perhaps success in career and personal life would give them more confidence, more self-respect. They're pretty attractive guys and people would treat them with sympathy. However, there was no guarantee that they could cope with their psychological problems on their own.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:34 am

Eric very possibly could have been saved by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He could have either gotten into the Marines eventually or found his way over there in some other branch of the military. I know of some guys who had nothing going on and ended up building an identity out of that. It would have improved relations with his father too.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:05 am

Maybe yes. Though once in life you come to grasp certain truths (they both didn't have a pleasant view of the world and understood how society works in its broad spectrum of dysfunctions) it's difficult to snap out of them to become, in Dylan's words, "blissfully happy and ignorant".
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:11 pm

Eric was rejected form the Air Force, right?
If neither of them had done the massacre, I can see them having a lot of ups and downs in life, but in the end coming out pretty well.
I can see Eric being very dedicated and hard working in some kind of military or even possibly law enforcement career. Ya know maybe even engineering or crazy enough, something creative like game/character development. If he was rejected from the military again, try-try again until eventually being recruited. After the break in and finally getting away from Columbine and the surrounding area, I don't see him getting into much more. He had a violent side, yes, but was also very focused if that makes sense.
Same with Dylan, after getting far away from Colorado and graduated, I can see him actually enjoying college. Be able to find a group and realize high school isn't a prediction for the rest of his life. A career in engineering or computer science seems like a great fit for him.
Maybe I'm just too much of a positive person, but I don't see too much bad for them in their hypothetical future.
I also don't think they're stay close. Of course still be friends and keep in touch, but not dependent of each other.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:14 pm

I guess we'd need to define "successful", but they both had a shot at the typical American life of career, family etc..

In my opinion they both had an upbringing to support a very successful life. They had it very good in terms of family, upbringing and household even on US standards, landslide if you consider global. Granted they took on some hate in HS, but let's be honest.. dime a dozen experience in American schools.

Each would have had their struggles as they obviously were "glass half empty" personalities and carried mental baggage. I couldn't even begin to count the people I know that are similar to E&D that scratched out a pretty decent to glamorous life on the surface.. had they not tipped over the edge, they would likely have found their way fairly well.

It's on them, they had choices and ruined them as well as the lives of countless others.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:16 am

Guest wrote:
JDM87 wrote:
They could've changed. I mean, every teenager goes thru the stages of archetypal angst and depression like D+E did, but once they become adults, they mature and slowly wane out of the phase of rebelliousness.
I agree with this.  I think they had equal positive potential to grow out of this phase as much as everyone wants to see them with a negatively potential future.   There are a lot of curve balls in life that could have steered them on a completely different path.  Zack Heckler was also depressed and an angry, mischievous kids in school.  His year book quote said "I hate this school."   Yet, around the corner from his misery, Zack met Devon and she helped him through hard times and his life veered off on a different path.  Zack went through his rebellious, angry, depressive phase in school and now he is a VP of a software company!

I think Dylan getting away from the stagnation that was Littleton would've been very good for his depressed state.  It had the potential to be like wiping the Etch a' Sketch slate clean and starting his independent life without the outcast role he resigned himself to in high school.  It would be a fresh start and new potential opportunites abound.  Dylan could be walking  on campus as a completely unknowable to others, turn the corner and bump into someone new, a potential first girl friend perhaps. Someone that could have affected his life in a positive way.  Sure, he would always be suseptible to depression, like many people are, but the fresh external stimulus and the break from his routine with Eric could take the focus off of himself and such a narrow, malignant viewpoint.  Dylan already had the intelligence and smarts in math and computers. A position in the computer industry was the obvious choice.  A behind the scenes, creative position would have been perfect for his shy nature.  The key with Dylan was getting him out of that rut so that passion for learning and pursuing could resurface.

And Eric, as much as he questioned the rigid rules of society - imposed on him in high school in the emotional/mental developmental stage of an 18 year old he teenager, he contadictorily seemed to live his life by the very rules he said he disliked.  He was pissed at Brooks for being late driving him to school.  He reminded fellow students in the commons "it's 8:16 for starters" - in Eric's brain there was no good reason to be late to class.  He  always completed his homework assignments, applied himself and got good grades.  He was considered a deligent, respectable, responsible employee at work. He had focus and good follow through on goals. ;)  If Eric made it into the marines, he would have had the opportunity to grow out of his self involved angst -  refocused his life, channeled his angry energy in a meaningful, constructive way - abiding by the rigidity, rules and regulations would have been like second nature to him, even though he claimed he is a rebel or resister against it.   It's a shame that his medication put a stop to that obvious path.  I can't help but think that  his mom beats herself up over mentioning it to the recruiter.  As for being a software developer, I think it would've been a lot more difficult to convince Eric that the pursuit of college education would have been satisfying.  Eric had restless energy and the Marines would have been the better choice to temper and channel that.  I see Eric floundering through college unsure whether he's good enough to be the next level of Doom developer. *shrugs*  I think that that might've been a back burner/back pocket side pursuit.

So, from a positive side of things, it would be a matter of breaking the two up, getting them out of their hometown, refocusing the two on things outside of themselves - removing their internalized idle time on themselves in a limited, small minded community  and over time, they could have moved on to another level of emotional development - growing out of angsty, destructive teenage boy energy.  They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
He never even knew the military rejected him, so no it didn't stop him from going through the "obvious path" of committing the massacre and doing all the stuff you mentioned. The way you worded that seems like you thought he decided to go through with columbine simply because of the military rejection when meanwhile he didn't even know about that. Dam, so many people who think things that are totally wrong, it's incredible.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:51 am

ColumbineIsInterestingAF wrote:
Guest wrote:
JDM87 wrote:
They could've changed. I mean, every teenager goes thru the stages of archetypal angst and depression like D+E did, but once they become adults, they mature and slowly wane out of the phase of rebelliousness.
I agree with this.  I think they had equal positive potential to grow out of this phase as much as everyone wants to see them with a negatively potential future.   There are a lot of curve balls in life that could have steered them on a completely different path.  Zack Heckler was also depressed and an angry, mischievous kids in school.  His year book quote said "I hate this school."   Yet, around the corner from his misery, Zack met Devon and she helped him through hard times and his life veered off on a different path.  Zack went through his rebellious, angry, depressive phase in school and now he is a VP of a software company!

I think Dylan getting away from the stagnation that was Littleton would've been very good for his depressed state.  It had the potential to be like wiping the Etch a' Sketch slate clean and starting his independent life without the outcast role he resigned himself to in high school.  It would be a fresh start and new potential opportunites abound.  Dylan could be walking  on campus as a completely unknowable to others, turn the corner and bump into someone new, a potential first girl friend perhaps. Someone that could have affected his life in a positive way.  Sure, he would always be suseptible to depression, like many people are, but the fresh external stimulus and the break from his routine with Eric could take the focus off of himself and such a narrow, malignant viewpoint.  Dylan already had the intelligence and smarts in math and computers. A position in the computer industry was the obvious choice.  A behind the scenes, creative position would have been perfect for his shy nature.  The key with Dylan was getting him out of that rut so that passion for learning and pursuing could resurface.

And Eric, as much as he questioned the rigid rules of society - imposed on him in high school in the emotional/mental developmental stage of an 18 year old he teenager, he contadictorily seemed to live his life by the very rules he said he disliked.  He was pissed at Brooks for being late driving him to school.  He reminded fellow students in the commons "it's 8:16 for starters" - in Eric's brain there was no good reason to be late to class.  He  always completed his homework assignments, applied himself and got good grades.  He was considered a deligent, respectable, responsible employee at work. He had focus and good follow through on goals. ;)  If Eric made it into the marines, he would have had the opportunity to grow out of his self involved angst -  refocused his life, channeled his angry energy in a meaningful, constructive way - abiding by the rigidity, rules and regulations would have been like second nature to him, even though he claimed he is a rebel or resister against it.   It's a shame that his medication put a stop to that obvious path.  I can't help but think that  his mom beats herself up over mentioning it to the recruiter.  As for being a software developer, I think it would've been a lot more difficult to convince Eric that the pursuit of college education would have been satisfying.  Eric had restless energy and the Marines would have been the better choice to temper and channel that.  I see Eric floundering through college unsure whether he's good enough to be the next level of Doom developer. *shrugs*  I think that that might've been a back burner/back pocket side pursuit.

So, from a positive side of things, it would be a matter of breaking the two up, getting them out of their hometown, refocusing the two on things outside of themselves - removing their internalized idle time on themselves in a limited, small minded community  and over time, they could have moved on to another level of emotional development - growing out of angsty, destructive teenage boy energy.  They were smart and bored and angry - a bad combination.  They needed a challenge, new stimulation.  Littleton contributed to making them whither and fester in frustration.
He never even knew the military rejected him, so no it didn't stop him from going through the "obvious path" of committing the massacre and doing all the stuff you mentioned. The way you worded that seems like you thought he decided to go through with columbine simply because of the military rejection when meanwhile he didn't even know about that. Dam, so many people who think things that are totally wrong, it's incredible.

He did not know for sure, but in the same way I am pretty darn sure he knew. As soon as his mom pulled out that pill bottle..... the reaction from the recruiter was not reassuring. I am sure Eric had researched it enough to know to lie and say he was not on medication. And then his mom tells on him. It was not a reason for NBK, but if he had gotten in the chance that it could have changed things is out there. It was a backup plan for Eric. Same as Arizona was for Dylan

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:58 am

Dylan's alcohol consumption might be overstated, but he also seemed to have gained a reputation for it at a pretty young age. It's likely he could have become a serious alcoholic or gotten into other drugs. His depression and hopelessness would have provided the classic launching pad.

The amount of weight he dropped in late HS and his weight in the autopsy report are obscene. It could be argued that NBK fueled this, but it could also be argued that a downward spiral would have happened regardless. I could see accidental death by overdose of pills and alcohol in his twenties.

Eric was inscrutable. Experts have called him a psychopath, but it's all Monday morning quarterback.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:20 am

I thought I had posted on here before but I guess I didn't. In any case.... I see Dylan as a real swing case. Part of me thinks that the transition to college would have been too much for him and he would have gotten really depressed all alone in a new state and turned to alcohol and killed himself. But there is another part that thinks that if he had gone to college, got away from Eric and his other fears he would have done pretty good. Could have started a new life

Eric, I think Eric would have had a lackluster life for the most part. I don't see him ever really being what he thought he wanted to be. Some kind of hero God that people looked up to....I don't see him happy leading a "normal" life. I think he would have continued to be an angry guy unless he by some grace of God he got into some military force. Then perhaps the discipline would be good for him.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:37 am

I wish I knew if they were able to come out of what they believed in nearing the end of their high school years so I'd know if they can get by as young adults, having structure and being more mature. Cause anything I would assume is just based on how they were prior to their death. We think Dylan may be suicidal or that Eric is capable of killing someone regardless...but we'll never know. They were smart, they might just be able to live a normal life. Maybe if they had good people around them and a partner who cares about them it might change things.

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:17 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
I thought I had posted on here before but I guess I didn't.  In any case.... I see Dylan as a real swing case.  Part of me thinks that the transition to college would have been too much for him and he would have gotten really depressed all alone in a new state and turned to alcohol and killed himself.  But there is another part that thinks that if he had gone to college, got away from Eric and his other fears he would have done pretty good.  Could have started a new life

Totally agree. HS is the worst. It's a miracle anyone makes it through HS without contemplating suicide. He could have thrived in college.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:55 pm

I don't know, but i believe dylan was too mentally ill to succeed or even survive without some major intervention. Depression wasn't his only problem. I think he also had schizotypal personaity disorder and borderline personality disorder. I also don't believe he would ever get help willingly on his own, his only chance would be a failed suicide attempt to make people realize how bad his issues really are and get him some help. No idea about eric though. He's a wild card imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:10 pm

Pennydreadful wrote:
I don't know, but i believe dylan was too mentally ill to succeed or even survive without some major intervention. Depression wasn't his only problem. I think he also had schizotypal personaity disorder and borderline personality disorder. No idea about Eric.
Yes, Dylan definitely was different from other children. Despite the fact that his intelligence did not suffer, his mental state was far from the norm. Although surprisingly it did not cause any suspicion from others (if only retrospectively).

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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:14 pm

I guess that was the biggest problem.. he was too intelligent and too good of an actor and manipulator to ever raise any suspicion.
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PostSubject: Re: Would they really have succeeded after school?   Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:30 pm

Pennydreadful wrote:
I guess that was the biggest problem.. he was too intelligent and too good of an actor and manipulator to ever raise any suspicion.
I think he was just afraid to share with others their experiences. His outlook was very unusual. He didn't want to be considered strange, eccentric or crazy. He had critical thinking in spite of all what he writes in his diary. Mind he understood, but he couldn't cope with his feelings.

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