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 Self harm?

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PostSubject: Self harm?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:19 pm

Did Dylan or Eric self harm? I know in their autopsy reports they had some scratches, but were they self harm markings?
We'll never know for sure I suppose but is self harm mentioned anywhere? I've heard theories that Dylan had and considering how depressed and self hating he was, it wouldn't surprise me. But Eric also had image/esteem issues, yet it's not mentioned with him all that much.

If any of that makes sense, great lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:23 pm

Yup, I know Dylan committed self-harm towards himself. In one of his journal entries, he wrote that he made a number of "depressions" on his arm of his favorite symbol. Not too sure about Eric. I don't think Eric was depressed like Dylan. Eric never really expressed depression in his journal. Well, not at least on the level as Dylan did.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:33 pm

Well, there's that one comment Dylan uses in his journal about the "depressioners on his hand" (I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist of it) that has me going "hm" in relation to this. I wouldn't discount it on his end at all, especially because it was such an off-handed singular comment that seemingly corresponds with the autopsy report quite easily. It's an awfully 'visible' place for self-harm, though? Most of the self-harmers I've met over the years use places that are easier to hide away from prying eyes. Either Dylan didn't care, or he passed them off as cat scratches (this is the same dude who got upset over cat hairs on his clothes, mind you Laughing ) or something similar, or he just was not a cutter after all.

I'm not so sure about Eric, though. The autopsy report places lacerations/cuts on his upper left arm. Might be self-harm, might also simply be him bumping into something and getting a few scrapes.. It's hard to tell with him, because he never vocalised anything remotely along the lines of self-injury. While there is no doubt in my mind that the kid had quite a degree of self-hatred and esteem issues, I also think that he tried his hardest to simply yell that much louder instead of allowing himself to really feel what he felt inside. Eric's the epitome of denial in a sense. It does not feel quite 'natural' to me to have him express his feelings through self-injury. It would've shown greater awareness about the depth of his problems and the serious issues arising in dealing with his emotions than I currently give him credit for.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:51 pm

Didn't Dylan refer to himself as "Mr. Cutter" in his journal at one point?

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - yup, I've underlined the part in his journal entry.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:48 pm

But is it anywhere in his autopsy report?

Erics says: "Present on the lateral aspect of the left upper arm is a small cluster of punctate lacerations and cuts." Which basically means there's cuts on his left arm and considering he was right handed they could very well have been self inflicted. But I'm not seeing anything like that in Dylans, unless I'm completely blind or losing it (which may very well be the case.)

The closest that I can find is where is says that there's "abrasions" but that's generally not a term used for self harming, more like when you scrape your hand when you fall.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:56 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
But is it anywhere in his autopsy report?

Erics says: "Present on the lateral aspect of the left upper arm is a small cluster of punctate lacerations and cuts." Which basically means there's cuts on his left arm and considering he was right handed they could very well have been self inflicted.
The upper left arm would be a well-hidden place to self-harm considering Eric was often wearing t-shirts.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:42 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
But is it anywhere in his autopsy report?

Erics says: "Present on the lateral aspect of the left upper arm is a small cluster of punctate lacerations and cuts." Which basically means there's cuts on his left arm and considering he was right handed they could very well have been self inflicted.
The upper left arm would be a well-hidden place to self-harm considering Eric was often wearing t-shirts.
That's what I was thinking. I can't say that I'm surprised if he did but it's all so awfully sad.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:01 am

It is very, very sad.

What I know about the subject: many, many teenagers self-harm, even some you would never think would do it. For some kids, it's to overwhelm through physical pain the emotional pain they can't express, it's to cope with stress, it may be to feel something because they're numb, or to punish themselves, etc. It can be associated with suicidal thoughts, but not always.

If those cuts were still relatively fresh or visible, it's possible Eric did that to cope with the stress of the upcoming massacre and whatever pain and regrets he felt he had to push at the back of his mind. Maybe?

These guys were in a lot of pain. And, you know what? Maybe one or more of their victims also self-harmed and they had that in common with their killers. Their pain of living in this world and whatever else makes people suffer, both for killers and victims.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yup, I know Dylan committed self-harm towards himself. In one of his journal entries, he wrote that he made a number of "depressions" on his arm of his favorite symbol. Not too sure about Eric. I don't think Eric was depressed like Dylan. Eric never really expressed depression in his journal. Well, not at least on the level as Dylan did.
Hi JDM87 ,what was Dylan's favorite symbol?
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:02 pm

He had a few. Specifically one of the number 5.
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PostSubject: RECAP   Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:12 am

I just wanna recap something for abit. I have discussed with someone on here a few months back about the reports on the cuts on Eric's left upper arm and we talked about how it is not entire impossible for Eric to have harmed himself prior to 4/20 and that marks such as that is quite familiar especially to those who have had self-harmed before.

But I can't believe it hadn't stood out to me earlier before. Very specific though that they were "small clusters of punctate lacerations and cuts". Punctuate lacerations are significantly different and kinda odd. Do we know how they look like? Is it still likely he'd harm himself in that manner? It's not the usual slashing/slitting kinda cut but they're like open holes - they almost look like stab wounds. I'm not sure either if the report is meant to state that the cuts were in a different manner such as slitting or they look the same.

But if that is the case then, it might not even be self harming at all? He might've received that upon making of the bombs with all kinds of possible materials, perhaps when messing around with his arsenal. I'm open to be wronged.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:39 pm

Cuts and lacerations are synonymous, although some think that lacerations are deeper than cuts.

Anyway, I was surprised to discover the glass shards from the library window inside the library, not far from the tables. Wouldn't Eric have gotten cut in the face or arms? That may explain the cuts and abrasions on other parts of the body.

I have self-harmed before, and I can tell you that I went for the wrist, and not the upper arms. I know that he may have hidden his wounds, but I can assure you that there is a difference between those people are serious about committing suicide (like I was) and those who enjoy self-mutilation (like Angelina Jolie) because the pain feels so good and is a new thrill. Those who enjoy self-mutilation are more likely to stab themselves to release tension and anxiety. Others who want to end their lives will slash their wrists, or areas close to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:52 pm

So you mean to say Eric may have chosen a specific kind of self-infliction, very specific pain/sensation? I might believe it.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So you mean to say Eric may have chosen a specific kind of self-infliction, very specific pain/sensation? I might believe it.

It's possible. Self-harm doesn't necessarily mean you are depressed.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:26 pm

I wouldn't believe it unless I see it. But I like to believe that self harm was possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:33 am

I am kinda with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on this in that I don't really believe it was self harm. I may be wrong but I just don't see it Dylan yes but not Eric

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:42 pm

It's probably just akne scars on his arm.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:49 pm

a cluster of acne scars on one spot of his left upper arm? is that possible?
I don't think it was self harm....I think it was cuts through materials. They were still sort of fresh so it was probably from last minute work. I won't completely put aside the possibility of a significant form of self-harming though, maybe he chose not to slit himself.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:51 pm

Maybe he got them from practising with Arlene after sawing her off. Remember in that Rampart Range video when Mark told him he needed to buff out the end cause it was sharp and it hurt?

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:57 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
a cluster of acne scars on one spot of his left upper arm? is that possible?
I don't think it was self harm....I think it was cuts through materials. They were still sort of fresh so it was probably from last minute work. I won't completely put aside the possibility of a significant form of self-harming though, maybe he chose not to slit himself.

Acne do appear in clusters in spots, they do on me anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:19 pm

I don't think they're blemishes or anything like that, they were actual lacerations/open wounds that were still a little fresh and I honestly think they aren't self-inflicted but rather from materials he was messing around with.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't think they're blemishes or anything like that, they were actual lacerations/open wounds that were still a little fresh and I honestly think they aren't self-inflicted but rather from materials he was messing around with.
I think they might be lacerations as weren't he and Dylan heard breaking glass in the garage to go in the pipe bombs. A piece of glass could easily have flown up and made little cuts.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:11 pm

I think this was mentioned in another thread b/c I remember commenting on it, but I agree with [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and think he sustained those injuries either in the planning process (in reference to him smashing things to make shrapnel) or during the actual shooting. Glass in particular cuts so easily and can end up everywhere, and with all the explosions and destruction they caused it would be surprising if they weren't unscathed when all was said and done. I referenced this in the other thread but I read that Eric was leaning out one of the broken windows to the entrance doors in order to shoot at Neil Gardner, and he could have even sustained this particular injury then.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:29 pm

I remember Tomb told me or was it someone else, that we can't determine whether the cuts were as fresh as from the day itself or prior, hence I stuck to the belief that he got them from as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said planning process. I was half-convinced at first that he self-harmed, feeling rather bad for him even, because of the talk about the kind of cuts he had. But it is now I realised that they are a very particular style. They aren't the usual slitting. They're the kind where say, you lean against multiple pointed edges of broken glass, looking like a cluster, ya'll know what I mean? Like icepicks.

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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:32 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They're the kind where say, you lean against multiple pointed edges of broken glass, looking like a cluster, ya'll know what I mean? Like icepicks.

Yeah, I noticed that. I thought that Eric might have cut himself on glass, but does the autopsy say how old the wounds were?
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They're the kind where say, you lean against multiple pointed edges of broken glass, looking like a cluster, ya'll know what I mean? Like icepicks.

Yeah, I noticed that. I thought that Eric might have cut himself on glass, but does the autopsy say how old the wounds were?

No it does not.  It only mentions them.  It also mentions he has no scars from needle or other marks.

Edit to add: I think if he would have self harmed he would have done it before and thus had scars from it
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They're the kind where say, you lean against multiple pointed edges of broken glass, looking like a cluster, ya'll know what I mean? Like icepicks.

Yeah, I noticed that. I thought that Eric might have cut himself on glass, but does the autopsy say how old the wounds were?

No it does not.  It only mentions them.  It also mentions he has no scars from needle or other marks.

Edit to add:  I think if he would have self harmed he would have done it before and thus had scars from it

I don't doubt that self-harm would leave scars, but we don't have evidence to indicate old cuts. I haven't read the autopsy, so I don't know. I am more surprised that Eric wasn't wounded from glass shards or flying bullets.

What's also interesting about the autopsy is that it indicates a therapeutic level of Luvox. Supposedly Eric was taking 100 mg of Zoloft, a very high dosage for minor "routine" problems, especially given that Zoloft reacts to alcohol. Why Dr. Albert gave him such a large dose, I don't know. But given what I know about psychiatric drugs, you don't prescribe a high dosage of Zoloft because the side-effects could be quite severe.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:40 am

@Lizpuff wrote:
I am kinda with @Tomb on this in that I don't really believe it was self harm.  I may be wrong but I just don't see it  Dylan yes but not Eric

Aww, girl, I love you. I've been away for so long and you still remember me.

My 2-cents is more logical to me. I feel Eric sustained these injuries the day he died. Think about the chaos of that day, the running around, the inevitable bumping into things, shoot, he may have even fell, ran into a locker, whatever.

Bottom line, we will never know, but there are entirely too many possibilities to attribute some lacerations to self harm.
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PostSubject: Re: Self harm?   Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:39 am

Eric's parents said something about him punching walls. I'm sure that counts as causing harm to himself.
As for the scratches on Eric, it could be possible from shrapnel from firing at close range in small areas. My friend thought he was cool when he got up close to a wooden door that was laying against a wall and shot it with a shotgun and wood splinters blasted back at him.
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