Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:02 am

best video I cold find explaining BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=452_1367502617&comments=1
Back to top Go down
rik75



Posts : 718
Join date : 2013-10-12
Age : 42
Location : Cornwall England

PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:39 am

What if Eric had done a practice test beforehand ? What if it was successful?
Just say Eric went up into the mountains and used a smaller propane tank for the test?
He may have been afraid of using a large tank due to the size of the explosion which would occur and the massive noise it would create. He obviously wouldn't want to attract attention to himself.

Just say the tank was a small one that are used for cooking while camping out.
a 1 or 2 kg tank. It would heat up quicker and require less heat than the tanks that were used during the massacre. 

The test may have been successful and maybe Eric presumed that a larger propane tank would work too. If it took 5 minutes to blow a small tank ( i can only guess ) Eric may have believed that would apply to any size.

I find it hard to believe that ( during the 12 month planning ) Eric would just presume that a naked flame would cause a propane tank to immediately explode. He must have had some knowledge of the process and must have tested it in some way.
What do you think about this? 
Could Eric have tested a smaller tank and been successful in blowing it up?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:19 pm

rik75 wrote:

Could Eric have tested a smaller tank and been successful in blowing it up?
I think it is very likely for the following reasons:

1) Chris Morris describes the boys telling them about exploding a bomb in the mts that left a HUGE blast hole behind -- one that was way too big for a pipe-bomb to make.

2) Eric bought a lot more propane tanks than what were discovered.


They pretty much had to know about BLEVE at least to some degree because they wired the bombs and knew nothing was wired directly into the propane tanks.  I bet Eric spent a LOT of time researching bombs, not just the ones he could make and test, but bombs of all kinds.

Remember: even knowing about the technical aspects of bombs (or guns) is a power-totem for many people and not just disgruntled kids! So I think Eric was probably pretty serious about his technical knowledge of bombs.

If they were making and detonating dry-ice bombs at work it seems very likely to me that they tested a small propane bomb at some point. They may have done so even before they formally decided to carry out an attack on the school -- just for kicks.
Back to top Go down
rik75



Posts : 718
Join date : 2013-10-12
Age : 42
Location : Cornwall England

PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:14 pm

gustopoet wrote:
rik75 wrote:

Could Eric have tested a smaller tank and been successful in blowing it up?
I think it is very likely for the following reasons:

1) Chris Morris describes the boys telling them about exploding a bomb in the mts that left a HUGE blast hole behind -- one that was way too big for a pipe-bomb to make.

2) Eric bought a lot more propane tanks than what were discovered.


They pretty much had to know about BLEVE at least to some degree because they wired the bombs and knew nothing was wired directly into the propane tanks.  I bet Eric spent a LOT of time researching bombs, not just the ones he could make and test, but bombs of all kinds.

Remember: even knowing about the technical aspects of bombs (or guns) is a power-totem for many people and not just disgruntled kids! So I think Eric was probably pretty serious about his technical knowledge of bombs.

If they were making and detonating dry-ice bombs at work it seems very likely to me that they tested a small propane bomb at some point. They may have done so even before they formally decided to carry out an attack on the school -- just for kicks.
I have been looking through the 11K again. 

 Pages 7689 - 8274 Bombs/1st responders/First aid/Weapons.

According to the reporting officer M Guerra : " A device with a clock timer pipe bomb and a propane tank was identified inside the Harris vehicle. I could see a clock timer and a two inch pipe bomb laying next to a propane tank. "

Also inside the car : 2 large black containers that were labeled " lane conditioner " believed to contain petrol.
2 five gallon petrol cans.
2 two gallon petrol cans.
2 one gallon petrol cans.
A white plastic gallon jug believed to contain a home made napalm substance. 
A 1 pint bottle of Clorox and a metal can of charcoal lighter.

Was the pipe bomb set up to blow up the propane tank? confused 

  INSTANT EXPLOSION! ! !


The report doesn't gone into a great deal of info regarding this.
If Eric wanted his car to instantly explode , why didn't he use the same method with the cafe bombs? confused
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:27 pm

You can't detonate a propane tank with a pipe-bomb. Everything they added to the propane-bombs was meant to keep a fire burning and/or cause immediate injury while the BLEVE was building up.

There is in fact no way to "instantly" detonate a propane tank. The boys wired the electric alarm clocks into solar-igniters that were wired into the gas-cans. The idea is that the alarm clock sends an electrical impulse to the solar-igniter which then causes a spark that detonates the gas-can which then causes a fire that causes the propane to boil. When the pressure builds to a high enough point, the propane tank will detonate. Under even the best circumstances, the propane tanks still have only a very slight chance of detonating.

The detonation can't be instant in any BLEVE device.


Last edited by gustopoet on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
rik75



Posts : 718
Join date : 2013-10-12
Age : 42
Location : Cornwall England

PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:54 pm

gustopoet wrote:
You can't detonate a propane tank with a pipe-bomb. Everything they added to the propane-bombs was meant to keep a fire burning and/or cause immediate injury while the BLEVE was building up.

There is in fact no way to "instantly" detonate a propane tank. The boys wired the electric alarm clocks into solar-igniters that were wired into the gas-cans. The idea is that the alarm clock sends an electrical impulse to the solar-ingiter which then causes a spark that detonates the gas-can which then causes a fire that causes the propane to boil. When the pressure builds to a high enough point, the propane tank will detonate. Under even the best circumstances, the propane tanks still have a very slight chance of detonating.

The detonation can't be instant in any BLEVE device.
I understand BLEVE ,i'm not sure how the pipe bomb comes into the equation ? I would like to know what was the purpose of having a PB sitting next to the propane? Was the PB expected to be detonated by the propane blast?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:59 pm

No, I think they were just adding as much as possible to the mix to make the fires hot enough and sustained enough to cause the BLEVE. They had a lot of pipe-bombs to spare... The pipe-bombs in the cafeteria propane-bombs were meant to injure as many people as possible when the pilot-blast went off. The ones left in the cars were just for added ooomph and kicks since they had quite a few more than they needed. The pipe-bombs would have been detonated by the initial gas-can explosion, or shortly thereafter would be my guess. They would pack added shrapnel.
Back to top Go down
sororityalpha

avatar

Posts : 3216
Join date : 2013-03-22
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:21 pm

sorry to bring up an old thread about this BUT

I have never believed that Eric/Dylan were planning on a BLEVE explosion for their cafeteria/car bombs.

I believe that they planned for there to be an 'instant rupture/explosion' of the propane tanks and everything else at the same time.

Of course that never happened but I am sure that is what they wanted to happen.

_________________
Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lasttrain
Top 10 Contributor


Posts : 629
Join date : 2013-04-04

PostSubject: Re: Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?   Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:32 pm

sorority, I agree with you, because Eric and Dylan never referred to a two-step explosion in their comments.

And when they were trying to detonate the bomb on surveillance camera they reacted as if they feared immediate global detonation.

But I'm just curious--is there any other evidence that's led you to this conclusion?

Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Did Eric and Dylan understand BLEVE?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» EVANS, Dylan
» I'm Busy. Please understand.
» F.A Campbell Natal Mounted Police. Don't understand abbreviations.
» The "Help me understand the Character spreadsheet" Thread
» Erik's scene in class

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: